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Re: Person Burned to Death in Gruesome, ISIS-style Murder

JahRustyFerrari
November 23, 2015 08:15AM

Registered: 7 years ago
Posts: 255

<quote>
We must all put down the rum and focus on reversing our community's descent into barbarism. This savagely cruel murder should provoke the sort of righteous anger needed to reverse course. Or, we may forget in a few days. Our choice.
</quote>
(I trust the "millenial" gets the implied XML reference, since y'all are so web-savvy...LOL)

Humans have always been barbarous, and always will be. It is in our nature. There are thousand of savagely cruel murders each day...you actually hit on one of the salient points when you indicated that some lives matter more than others.

There will be no reversing of the course. Humans don't mind murders as long as they are not affected personally, and as long as the murders are of people that they don't like. Just ask the Native Americans, the Caribs, the Arawaks, the Mayans...look at some of the ingenious torture devices from the Middle Ages, including the one where you inserted a human and roasted him/her. They make ISIS look like saints.

BTW, why does an Arabic organization have an English name? Why do their candidates for beheading always have an orange jumpsuit? Where did they suddenly get the funding for all those weapons? But that's another topic...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/2015 08:57AM by JahRustyFerrari.

Re: Person Burned to Death in Gruesome, ISIS-style Murder

vicanuck
November 23, 2015 08:28AM

Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 2,285

I'm not shocked by this at all. In absence of any real law enforcement (like in the VI), societies will begin to mete out their own punishments for those "convicted" of transgressions.

Re: Person Burned to Death in Gruesome, ISIS-style Murder

watruw8ing4
November 23, 2015 10:39AM

Registered: 11 years ago
Posts: 851

e

Quote
monogram
Quote
watruw8ing4
Good lord, child, I'm a boomer.
[Satirical Post]

Well that explains it all! Me, me, me, me, me. Why are you (a self-admitted boomer) posting here? Don't you have a worldwide economy to finish wrecking? Just kidding wink We'll pay off all your accumulated national debt without complaint. And fund your generation's retirement. And pay for Obamacare.

I mean, your contributions to the country, (via the development of a sound retirement system, the passage of a robust economy to your grandchildren, and your contributions to the financial, criminal justice, and political systems) must be lauded.

In all seriousness, we must ensure that this barbaric murder does not happen again. I pray that the educated transplants will, like the transplants of past, use their educational and financial privileges to assist competent local leaders in solving our community's problems. We must all put down the rum and focus on reversing our community's descent into barbarism. This savagely cruel murder should provoke the sort of righteous anger needed to reverse course. Or, we may forget in a few days. Our choice.

Clearly, you are not really "just kidding" at all. It's funny, because when I was your age, we felt we were superior to our elders, too, and that they were failing us. This too, shall pass.

I see I was right about the stereotyping. So what specifically do you propose we uneducated inferiors do to help?

edited because my age-addled brain hit the post button prematurely.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/2015 10:48AM by watruw8ing4.

Re: Person Burned to Death in Gruesome, ISIS-style Murder

monogram
November 23, 2015 01:10PM

Registered: 3 years ago
Posts: 446

Quote
watruw8ing4

What specifically do you propose we uneducated inferiors do to help?

edited because my age-addled brain hit the post button prematurely.

??? Transplants are generally more educated than locals. They are definitely "superior" educationally. I merely suggest that this privilege should continue to be used to better the community and give back.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/2015 01:10PM by monogram.

Re: Person Burned to Death in Gruesome, ISIS-style Murder

monogram
November 23, 2015 01:15PM

Registered: 3 years ago
Posts: 446

Quote
JahRustyFerrari

you actually hit on one of the salient points when you indicated that some lives matter more than others.

Yeah, it's pretty sad. There was darn-near a Congressional investigation into Jamie Cockayne's bar fight/murder.

On the other hand, this gruesome incineration of a human being won't garner nearly as much attention. Maybe it's youthful optimism, but I'm disappointed that people really don't care about this decades-old difference in treatment.

Re: Person Burned to Death in Gruesome, ISIS-style Murder

islandjoan
November 23, 2015 02:38PM

Registered: 11 years ago
Posts: 1,669

I believe there was a darn-near Congressional investigation into Jamie Cockayne's murder for two reasons:
1. his family was very vocal in calling the investigation
2. he was white and killed by west indians (a rare occurrence)

Meanwhile we don't know the identity of the burned victim and it is possible that many think it was a crime-related retribution, given all the recent murders, many of which were in fact retribution (Henry, Woodrup, Murray, and Williams come to mind)

It is a heinous crime and very sad.

Re: Person Burned to Death in Gruesome, ISIS-style Murder

monogram
November 23, 2015 03:17PM

Registered: 3 years ago
Posts: 446

Quote
islandjoan
I believe there was a darn-near Congressional investigation into Jamie Cockayne's murder for two reasons:
1. his family was very vocal in calling the investigation
2. he was white and killed by west indians (a rare occurrence)

Meanwhile we don't know the identity of the burned victim and it is possible that many think it was a crime-related retribution, given all the recent murders, many of which were in fact retribution (Henry, Woodrup, Murray, and Williams come to mind)

It is a heinous crime and very sad.

Agreed. The deceased's funeral will almost certainly be closed-casket. Disgusting.

Re: Person Burned to Death in Gruesome, ISIS-style Murder

redeyesadie
November 23, 2015 04:06PM

Registered: 9 years ago
Posts: 97

Quote
monogram
Quote
islandjoan
I believe there was a darn-near Congressional investigation into Jamie Cockayne's murder for two reasons:
1. his family was very vocal in calling the investigation
2. he was white and killed by west indians (a rare occurrence)

Meanwhile we don't know the identity of the burned victim and it is possible that many think it was a crime-related retribution, given all the recent murders, many of which were in fact retribution (Henry, Woodrup, Murray, and Williams come to mind)

It is a heinous crime and very sad.

Agreed. The deceased's funeral will almost certainly be closed-casket. Disgusting.

Goes without saying that this was a horrible crime regardless of which came first, the shooting or the burning. As far as what to do about it, maybe the deceased's family should take a page from Emmet Till's mother and have an open casket (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmett_Till). Maybe if people were made to see the heinousness of this act, some who otherwise would not, might be moved to do what they can to prevent anything like it from happening again.

Re: Person Burned to Death in Gruesome, ISIS-style Murder
avatar

rotorhead
November 23, 2015 05:22PM

Registered: 13 years ago
Posts: 2,455

Quote
monogram
Quote
JahRustyFerrari

you actually hit on one of the salient points when you indicated that some lives matter more than others.

Yeah, it's pretty sad. There was darn-near a Congressional investigation into Jamie Cockayne's bar fight/murder.

On the other hand, this gruesome incineration of a human being won't garner nearly as much attention. Maybe it's youthful optimism, but I'm disappointed that people really don't care about this decades-old difference in treatment.

How do you explain the difference in handling between the Michael Brown shooting in Ferguson and the Dillon Taylor shooting in Salt Lake City? One resulted in riots and a Justice Department investigation, the other resulted in an acquittal of the police officer and no further action. Didn't Dillon deserve the same handling as Michael? Did the black police officer who shot Dillon Taylor deserve to be vilified the same way that the white police officer who shot Michael Brown was vilified?

A lot of what happens after a murder/shooting depends on the reaction of the friends and family of the victim.

All lives matter!

Re: Person Burned to Death in Gruesome, ISIS-style Murder

monogram
November 23, 2015 06:37PM

Registered: 3 years ago
Posts: 446

Quote
rotorhead
Quote
monogram
Quote
JahRustyFerrari

you actually hit on one of the salient points when you indicated that some lives matter more than others.

Yeah, it's pretty sad. There was darn-near a Congressional investigation into Jamie Cockayne's bar fight/murder.

On the other hand, this gruesome incineration of a human being won't garner nearly as much attention. Maybe it's youthful optimism, but I'm disappointed that people really don't care about this decades-old difference in treatment.

How do you explain the difference in handling between the Michael Brown shooting in Ferguson and the Dillon Taylor shooting in Salt Lake City? One resulted in riots and a Justice Department investigation, the other resulted in an acquittal of the police officer and no further action. Didn't Dillon deserve the same handling as Michael? Did the black police officer who shot Dillon Taylor deserve to be vilified the same way that the white police officer who shot Michael Brown was vilified?

A lot of what happens after a murder/shooting depends on the reaction of the friends and family of the victim.

All lives matter!

The fact that you know Dillon Taylor's name (and I do too) sets aside any argument that his killing went under-discussed. As to the merits of the Mike Brown shooting, I decline your invitation to race-bait, as it is wholly irrelevant to this discussion (and uncharacteristic of me as a West Indian).

The tragic (and undisputed, until you showed up) truth in the VI is that murders involving local victims generally receive little attention, and are soon forgotten.

The family of the young man who was incinerated ISIS-style won't be meeting the Pope like the St. John Terminix accident victims did. His family's pleas to law enforcement, no matter how numerous, won't result in Congressional probes, like in the Malfetti, Cockayne, etc. cases. His barbaric and shocking death will be forgotten shortly, by locals and transplants alike. Mine would be too.

I suspect there was a time when this wasn't the case. The late Sen. Moynihan (NY) might say we've been "defining deviancy down" for some time. Maybe murder has been normalized.

Re: Person Burned to Death in Gruesome, ISIS-style Murder
avatar

rotorhead
November 23, 2015 07:46PM

Registered: 13 years ago
Posts: 2,455

Quote
monogram
The fact that you know Dillon Taylor's name (and I do too) sets aside any argument that his killing went under-discussed. As to the merits of the Mike Brown shooting, I decline your invitation to race-bait, as it is wholly irrelevant to this discussion (and uncharacteristic of me as a West Indian).

The tragic (and undisputed, until you showed up) truth in the VI is that murders involving local victims generally receive little attention, and are soon forgotten.

The family of the young man who was incinerated ISIS-style won't be meeting the Pope like the St. John Terminix accident victims did. His family's pleas to law enforcement, no matter how numerous, won't result in Congressional probes, like in the Malfetti, Cockayne, etc. cases. His barbaric and shocking death will be forgotten shortly, by locals and transplants alike. Mine would be too.

I suspect there was a time when this wasn't the case. The late Sen. Moynihan (NY) might say we've been "defining deviancy down" for some time. Maybe murder has been normalized.

I am afraid that I disagree with you on this. Most people have never heard of Dillon Taylor and his death certainly did not result in a Department of Justice investigation to see if his civil rights had been violated. And while there were a few protests there were no riots.

As I said, the aftermath of these murders has more to do with how outraged the family and friends are and how much they press authorities than it does race. Locals of all races do not get as much press as do visitors/tourists.

I have had four friends murdered here on STX in the past five years. They made the local papers as has this burning victim, however nothing more has come of these murders. They were white, but they lived here and were not just visiting. They had no one in the states who raised a stink with federal authorities. They have been all but forgotten. No outrage over their murders. Life goes on.

You say that this burning victim will be forgotten no matter how many pleas are made to authorities, how do you know? Has his family/friends raised a stink with local authorities? Has he even been identified? Aren't the local authorities West Indian? Why would they treat a West Indian death different from others?

Where is the big stink over Bob Johnson's death? Where is the Department of Justice investigation? He would fit your example of a high profile transplant yet nothing has happened and it has been three and a half years. No one has been arrested, nothing has happened.

What about Jake Bierowski? Murdered over three years ago. No suspects, no arrest. Was he West Indian or was he a transplant. Many murders here fall through the cracks, born here and transplants alike. I think you have a selective memory.

Re: Person Burned to Death in Gruesome, ISIS-style Murder

monogram
November 23, 2015 09:21PM

Registered: 3 years ago
Posts: 446

Quote
rotorhead
I have had four friends murdered here on STX in the past five years.

My apologies for ever referring to you as a transplant. With an experience like the above mentioned, you are as local as I am! I've stopped counting how many friends I've lost. Jake was a great guy.

Re: Person Burned to Death in Gruesome, ISIS-style Murder

speee1dy
November 24, 2015 07:40AM

Registered: 10 years ago
Posts: 8,631

just wondering what having friends murdered has to do with whether you are a transplant or not?

wouldnt anyone who lives here be a transplant.


and yes you have engaged in race baiting with me by insinuating i only hang out with certain people by claiming to have been to 1 event in which i was invited.

Re: Person Burned to Death in Gruesome, ISIS-style Murder

OldTart
November 24, 2015 07:49AM

Registered: 6 years ago
Posts: 6,524

It's my most sincere hope that prospective newcomers don't think that the OP's comments are representative of the attitude of the general population towards them.

Re: Person Burned to Death in Gruesome, ISIS-style Murder

JahRustyFerrari
November 24, 2015 08:57AM

Registered: 7 years ago
Posts: 255

...meanwhile, here in the good old USA, a three-year old toddler put his 19-month old sibling into an oven and another toddler turned it on, roasting the baby to death...

You don't need ISIS for gruesome burning deaths, just lack of parental supervision.

Re: Person Burned to Death in Gruesome, ISIS-style Murder

SunnyCaribe
November 24, 2015 09:33AM

Registered: 7 years ago
Posts: 495

Quote
Finatic
Meanwhile whilst the concern seems to be a lack of a ME, or that the OP was inflammatory in her title, a man is dead, murdered brutally, and no one seems to care.

Soon someone will say that this person must have been in a gang or dealing drugs with the implication that he deserved to die. Then the crime apologists will say that since they don't do such things or go to such places it's not their worry, and the death will be forgotten. And crime happens everywhere so a shrug of the shoulders and move on back to the beach and the rum.

The lack of community outrage to these events from transplants who apparently only want to pick and choose what matters to them where they live is saddening beyond belief.

1) You're angry that the thread drifted in a way you do not like, so you hijacked it yourself to berate the respondents for thread drift? That's pretty bold hypocrisy.

2) You feel the need to speculate about people's responses and motivations in order to justify your outrage? You have to put words into the mouths of the people with whom you are arguing? That's a straw man argument. You are lashing out at yourself. It's pathetic.

3) The lack of investment in a prudent judicial system is directly relevant to the attitudes towards crime in the territory both among locals and "transplants" alike. In the absence of a fair and efficient judiciary we are forced to view these events with circumspection. The last few such murders that I am aware of have served to rid the community of some of its worst elements. Yes, it is deeply worrisome that vigilantism has taken over where the judicial system has fallen short. The most direct remedy is education as a whole, voter education specifically, and public pressure to support and invest in law enforcement and criminal prosecution. As such, discussions such as these are valid, useful, and timely.

Re: Person Burned to Death in Gruesome, ISIS-style Murder

watruw8ing4
November 24, 2015 09:45AM

Registered: 11 years ago
Posts: 851

Quote
speee1dy
just wondering what having friends murdered has to do with whether you are a transplant or not?

wouldnt anyone who lives here be a transplant.


and yes you have engaged in race baiting with me by insinuating i only hang out with certain people by claiming to have been to 1 event in which i was invited.

You know what? I had a lengthy and heavily sarcastic remark I was about to post along those lines. But you said what I wanted to say. People can label me as they like. It's human nature. But I'm going to stop calling myself a transplant, even though I still have 3 more friends to go to earn the "local" designation (which I never aspired to in the first place), and none of them want to volunteer.

The exclusionary, resentful attitude will continue in many, and it will continue to create animosity. But I'm not going to let it affect/infect me. This is my home now, and I'm doing what I can to make it better without eroding the positive aspects of the culture that helped draw me here in the first place. I'll just continue to call myself what I am, a legal, USVI resident, and continue to listen to and work with those many locals who truly want to do away with the bad, and are willing to help me understand how I can help, rather than deal with those bit@#ing about it and me, and basing my perceived inferior island status on where I was born. I'll ignore the trolling from now on.

Re: Person Burned to Death in Gruesome, ISIS-style Murder

monogram
November 24, 2015 11:55AM

Registered: 3 years ago
Posts: 446

Quote
watruw8ing4
I'll ignore the trolling from now on.

Says the person who tried to inject Mike Brown into the conversation (which everyone graciously ignored) and proclaimed the controversial and irrelevant "All Lives Matter." What's next, Duke Lacrosse? Sharpton? You've already been exposed.

Transplant is a non-racial term, as is local. We smartly rebuffed your attempts to racialize the conversation.

Predictably, some have attempted to turn a thread directing attention to the gruesome murder of a human being into a racial debate. Calling attention to the plights of unfortunate and underserved groups should never be interpreted as a slight to the more fortunate groups.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2015 12:02PM by monogram.

Re: Person Burned to Death in Gruesome, ISIS-style Murder

OldTart
November 24, 2015 12:07PM

Registered: 6 years ago
Posts: 6,524

Quote
monogram
... (which everyone graciously ignored).

As many have decided to do where your divisive and derisive "contributions" are concerned. Forum trolling and flaming aren't admirable traits. If you ever get out from behind your computer screen to actively pursue remedies for the innumerable problems you see in our society your opinions might gain some credibility but until such time it's just a lot of meaningless gum flapping.

Re: Person Burned to Death in Gruesome, ISIS-style Murder

monogram
November 24, 2015 12:09PM

Registered: 3 years ago
Posts: 446

Quote
OldTart
It's my most sincere hope that prospective newcomers don't think that the OP's comments are representative of the attitude of the general population towards them.

You'd be surprised. Privileged newcomers are generally viewed with suspicion, even on the mainland. Ever asked a college-town resident what they think of the spoiled-rotten students? Or what the students think of the "townies?"

I'm not sure how pointing out the uncontroversial point that certain groups in "foreign" jurisdictions receive more attention when they are harmed than locals do (e.g., Natalie Holloway, etc. etc.) is offensive or indicative of hostility toward newcomers. I've traveled extensively to several third world jurisdictions, and understood my privilege (both as a student and a newcomer). Some people cannot even concede even a tiny bit of their relative privilege in the VI. Weird.

Re: Person Burned to Death in Gruesome, ISIS-style Murder

speee1dy
November 24, 2015 02:11PM

Registered: 10 years ago
Posts: 8,631

what privilege would that be?

Re: Person Burned to Death in Gruesome, ISIS-style Murder

watruw8ing4
November 24, 2015 03:26PM

Registered: 11 years ago
Posts: 851

quote=monogram]

Quote
watruw8ing4
I'll ignore the trolling from now on.

Says the person who tried to inject Mike Brown into the conversation (which everyone graciously ignored) and proclaimed the controversial and irrelevant "All Lives Matter." What's next, Duke Lacrosse? Sharpton? You've already been exposed.

Transplant is a non-racial term, as is local. We smartly rebuffed your attempts to racialize the conversation.

Predictably, some have attempted to turn a thread directing attention to the gruesome murder of a human being into a racial debate. Calling attention to the plights of unfortunate and underserved groups should never be interpreted as a slight to the more fortunate groups.[/quote]

Well, I said I was going to ignore the trolling, but I do need to clarify one thing. I NEVER mentioned or alluded to Mike Brown, or "All Lives Matter" (a slogan that infuriates me, btw)." I "racialized" nothing. I never applied any racial connotation to "transplant" or "local": I only objected to the negative way in which you used the former term to label people you don't know.

Seems you see what you want to see, and accept only what fits your own confirmation bias expectations. And if you wish your words not to be interpreted as slights, maybe you should re-read them before you post, from the paradigm of your target. Oh, and maybe double-check to whom you are responding in the first place.

Re: Person Burned to Death in Gruesome, ISIS-style Murder

speee1dy
November 25, 2015 07:36AM

Registered: 10 years ago
Posts: 8,631

Re: Person Burned to Death in Gruesome, ISIS-style Murder

Spartygrad95
November 25, 2015 09:32AM

Registered: 4 years ago
Posts: 1,885

Quote
monogram
Quote
OldTart
It's my most sincere hope that prospective newcomers don't think that the OP's comments are representative of the attitude of the general population towards them.

You'd be surprised. Privileged newcomers are generally viewed with suspicion, even on the mainland. Ever asked a college-town resident what they think of the spoiled-rotten students? Or what the students think of the "townies?"

I'm not sure how pointing out the uncontroversial point that certain groups in "foreign" jurisdictions receive more attention when they are harmed than locals do (e.g., Natalie Holloway, etc. etc.) is offensive or indicative of hostility toward newcomers. I've traveled extensively to several third world jurisdictions, and understood my privilege (both as a student and a newcomer). Some people cannot even concede even a tiny bit of their relative privilege in the VI. Weird.

The neighborhood I lived in at school was predominantly residents, not students, we embraced each other. Our neighbor was an elderly man who had seen college kids come and go. We raked his leaves and shoveled his snow, he looked past our parties. Not everyone looks at others through jaded glasses

Re: Person Burned to Death in Gruesome, ISIS-style Murder

AandA2VI
November 28, 2015 03:34AM

Registered: 6 years ago
Posts: 2,291

I think you all are forgetting something. On an island where everyone knows your business - you really think cops don't know who's doing stuff like this? I am betting that they know pretty damn quick who is involved in murders and pretty much the majority of the crimes that happen here. The ones that get "solved" are the ones where friends and family don't stop and push push push for justice. Information and names get trickled through cops and judges that are friends and family of these criminals. Paperwork - evidence - statements go missing. I have absolutely no faith in our VIPD. Especially disappointed in what I have seen with my two eyes - behavior of VIPD in uniforms.

Im no detective but its pretty clear to me - since the lady as Coki knew I was engaged even before I got back from Africa... where I got engaged - word travels FAST and people love to gossip! I still don't know how she kew lol. Ive only been here 3 years now but I learned that first two weeks lol. Get rid of the nepotism and solve every crime here - will that ever happen? No. There is simply no accountability.

Sad.

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