Join discussions on moving to and living in the USVI, ask questions, share info & tips! (Vacationing? Visit Travel Message Board)


Re: EDC Companies and Employment - Bill 31-0292

IslandHops
December 22, 2015 08:07AM

Registered: 9 years ago
Posts: 929

There is a group on linked-in for St Croix Software Developers.

In addition to the few EDC companies that may employ software professionals there are supposedly over 30 RT Park clients that receive tax benefits - yet a complete list of these companies is not readily available. Of course their agreements probably don't contain a local hire clause.

I'm dubious over the constant bashing of EDC companies. They have negotiated the best deal possible in order to base their operations here - that is just good business. Many are highly ethical in their operations and do a lot for the community.

Re: EDC Companies and Employment - Bill 31-0292

LiquidFluoride
December 22, 2015 09:36AM

Registered: 5 years ago
Posts: 1,940

Quote
JahRustyFerrari


Anyone who suggests that we as "local employees" all behave the same is a racist.

Going for the victim role already eh? do you know how dis empowering that is? no one said "all" local employees that I'm aware of (I would have called them out)there was an observation obvious conditions; not racism (hell I wouldn't even know what "race" to attribute "locals" to).

I find jumping to the race card a very weak move & a great way to derail a conversation from uncomfortable topics.


Quote
monogram

That's the problem with stereotyping- it hurts the good ones

"hurts" ? really? do you know how humans work? we pre-judge E V E R Y T H I N G, we have too as there are too many variables to go through life making fully explored well thought out decisions based on each unique instance we face.

it is GOING to happen, you can flop back and cry about it or try and shift the pattern.

I'm a DOER, if you are DOING something to change it then great, if you're complaining about it then you're basically just perpetuating the issue.

how about this #stopfocusingonrace ? you just perpetuate the problem.


Quote
JahRustyFerrari
Exactly. I graduated from St. Croix Central High. The funny thing is, many of the same young people who get the bad rap here go off to the mainland and do just fine in the middle of "Babylon".

yes, "locals" is a regional label, it has NOTHING to do with race; it has everything to do with the zeitgeist present on this island.

I've seen the same attitude that predominates here other places as well (Alaska) so don't think locals here are any different from locals other places... attitudes like this are infectious.


Quote
JahRustyFerrari
Maybe we should take the initiative and start networking with each other....
Who knows, maybe having a unified tech community that polices its own and presents a professional face to prospective employers will help to erase some of the stigma.

I'm all for it! If you need a hand I"m with you... or do I not qualify? I've only been here 3 years.........

Forcing the hire of locals failed miserably in Alaska, but I figured that was just because the government gives too much free money to native Alaskans (free money ruins people, every time). It doesn't appear to be working here either, I do not agree with forcing hiring processes. I also do not agree with discrimination based on non-performance factors.

Nationalism is a disease of the mind, so is "Localism" we are all human, we all bleed red.

Re: EDC Companies and Employment - Bill 31-0292

OldTart
December 22, 2015 09:59AM

Registered: 6 years ago
Posts: 6,524

A couple of random thoughts came to mind. I never turned down anyone for a job because they were "local". I just needed the right person to do the job and those that weren't the right fit for whatever reason weren't hired whether they were black, white, pink or purple or any variation or combination thereof - it was as simple as that.

When managing a supermarket years back I fired a "local" gal for stealing. She went running to Labor and filed a claim alleging that I fired her (a) because she was black; (b) because she was from Antigua; (c) because she was female; and (d) because she was pregnant. Apart from the general nonsense she wasn't even pregnant at the time of her firing. It was a ;pain to deal with it but it went nowhere. Maybe some employers get soured by such shenanigans so generalize against locals but I figure they're just dumb people without much experience. There are idiots and incompetents everywhere.

Re: EDC Companies and Employment - Bill 31-0292

monogram
December 22, 2015 01:25PM

Registered: 3 years ago
Posts: 446

I disagree that we're being rough on the EDC companies. They signed an agreement with the government and should be held to that agreement. The agreement is a trade-off of sorts: the company receives an almost-complete waiver on all taxes and, in return, agrees to employ mostly locals so as to assist the very impoverished local population. It is dishonest to knowingly agree to that and then violate both the letter and spirit of the agreement.

The per capita income in the VI is $13,139. If you remove the EDC folks and transplants, that number would be even lower. If we were a state, we'd have the lowest per capita income in the U.S. by far. We are, in large part, a "poor house," as President Hoover once said.

I remember reading (as a senior in high school) about a large donation from an EDC company to an elite private school in the territory. I remember wondering why the private school was the priority when our school at the time only had one working water fountain, which was about a 15 minute walk from where most classrooms were located. The classroom desks were often so old that the edges would peel and students would cut their arms while inadvertently rubbing against the desk while completing writing assignments. These private school-geared charitable donations were very common (several charity tennis tournaments, Hovensa's annual President's Golf Tournament, etc). This behavior is still so bizarre to me--not because I expected anything, but because I simply couldn't understand how some EDC transplants could be so indifferent to the abject poverty in the VI. I am not sympathetic to their complaining that hiring locals is too onerous.

Re: EDC Companies and Employment - Bill 31-0292

monogram
December 22, 2015 01:34PM

Registered: 3 years ago
Posts: 446

Quote
JahRustyFerrari

Exactly. I graduated from St. Croix Central High. The funny thing is, many of the same young people who get the bad rap here go off to the mainland and do just fine in the middle of "Babylon". Many of us are denied the opportunity to return because we are stigmatized as "local", even though we perform well at IBM, Google, Boeing, Yahoo, and numerous other corporations.

My oh my. From Central High to a Master's in Computer Engineering and top-notch Fortune 500 experience. I don't think enough people appreciate how significant that achievement is. Our locally-grown Ben Carsons aren't appreciated, while a rap group like Rock City get their own holiday. Oy vey.

And to be snubbed when you're likely more qualified than the employers themselves? Thoroughly offensive. I see this so frequently...

Quote
OldTart
I can rattle off the names of half a dozen people who were born and raised here, have excellent professional credentials and have tried unsuccessfully to come back and give back to the "their" community only to be shunned. If I as a mere "transplant" can come up with that number then I'm sure that number is infinitely greater.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2015 01:37PM by monogram.

Re: EDC Companies and Employment - Bill 31-0292

IslandHops
December 22, 2015 02:35PM

Registered: 9 years ago
Posts: 929

"...It is dishonest to knowingly agree to that and then violate both the letter and spirit of the agreement.... "

- Any company that fails to comply with their EDC compliance agreement, and is found in non-compliance via EDC review, can be fined and have their benefits revoked by the EDC commission. If you know of any EDC company you believe is in non-compliance you should make that information public.

"...I remember wondering why the private school was the priority when our school at the time only had one working water fountain..."

- Under most EDC compliance certificates there is a minimum annual amount that must be donated as charitable contributions. These contributions usually go to 501c3 registered charities. The donations are at the discretion of the principals of the EDC company, however companies are directed toward giving to charities in certain categories, such as education.
In more recent EDC Certificates, the majority of donations are now directed specifically toward the territory's scholarship fund (govt. directed). This leaves little left to satisfy the numerous requests for donations most EDC companies receive.

(Note: Not EDC, but the 300k per year in donations under the pending Limetree Bay agreement will be distributed purely at the Governors discretion - what are the odds that a water fountain will be fixed using those funds?).

Hope this helps clarify these aspects of the program.

My concern is in how the government will now define 'local employee' under the new legislation. To label someone who has lived here for years, owns property, and pays taxes as being 'non-local' is erroneous at best, and in effect could be considered discriminatory.

And under this new law, if you were born in the VI but moved to the mainland as a child, but now had a degree and experience and wanted to move back to work at an EDC company, you would now be considered and reported as 'non-local' for the duration of your employment! A born-here 'non-local' - bet that Malone and crew never thought that through (and yes it was a unanimous vote).

Re: EDC Companies and Employment - Bill 31-0292

monogram
December 22, 2015 02:50PM

Registered: 3 years ago
Posts: 446

Quote
IslandHops
And under this new law, if you were born in the VI but moved to the mainland as a child, but now had a degree and experience and wanted to move back to work at an EDC company, you would now be considered and reported as 'non-local' for the duration of your employment!

That's pretty fair. That person is not a resident. The already-overbroad definition of resident includes those who are graduates of VI high schools, UVI, etc. People who move away as children aren't residents and shouldn't be considered as such. It's a good bill. The point is to prevent the hiring of locals for such time until the non-resident employees become residents and then firing off the locals. Wouldn't put it past the EDC folks.

Re: EDC Companies and Employment - Bill 31-0292

monogram
December 22, 2015 02:51PM

Registered: 3 years ago
Posts: 446

Quote
IslandHops
(Note: Not EDC, but the 300k per year in donations under the pending Limetree Bay agreement will be distributed purely at the Governors discretion - what are the odds that a water fountain will be fixed using those funds?).

We will need new $8,000 satin sheets for the new gov't house being constructed for the pig to live in!

Re: EDC Companies and Employment - Bill 31-0292

cre
December 22, 2015 03:18PM

Registered: 2 years ago
Posts: 67

Quote
monogram
The point is to prevent the hiring of locals for such time until the non-resident employees become residents and then firing off the locals. Wouldn't put it past the EDC folks.

I see your point in certain situations, like a strickly hourly job or something like a duration contract (3months, 6months, or sometimes a year), but when you're dealing with a salary that makes no sense. They'd open themselves to too many lawsuits for breach of contract. The more you speak on the topic is the more I feel like you don't understand the process and you're just speaking because you can.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2015 03:35PM by cre.

Re: EDC Companies and Employment - Bill 31-0292

JahRustyFerrari
December 23, 2015 05:30PM

Registered: 7 years ago
Posts: 240

LiquidFluoride says:
"I find jumping to the race card a very weak move & a great way to derail a conversation from uncomfortable topics. "

I'm sorry to burst your bubble sir, but it is all about race, and anyone who denies it is quite unaware of, or willfully ignorant of, the situation in the world today.

Apparently, the most uncomfortable topic for some people is to face this reality.

FYI, "local" is code for "Black". A Caucasian who comes to work in the islands is not considered when people make scathing remarks about "local" workers. I am sure you are aware of other code words and terms that are meant to refer to Black people. Don't say we are "playing victim" because we realize when we are being slighted.

You can speak to any of the "local" (read "Black"wink workers who used to be at HESS and ask them if the people from Texas, Louisiana, Oklahoma, etc. were lumped in with the name "local worker" by management.

I resent people hollering "race card" and "victim mentality" every time a Black person reminds them that it is all about race. It is what it is. I love and respect all humans, but I realize that some don't feel the same way about me. To not be aware is dangerous.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2015 06:14PM by JahRustyFerrari.

Re: EDC Companies and Employment - Bill 31-0292

JahRustyFerrari
December 23, 2015 06:13PM

Registered: 7 years ago
Posts: 240

IslandHops says:

"- Any company that fails to comply with their EDC compliance agreement, and is found in non-compliance via EDC review, can be fined and have their benefits revoked by the EDC commission. If you know of any EDC company you believe is in non-compliance you should make that information public. "

The trick is to not be found to be in non-compliance...you can still do things like cut your employees salaries in half, reduce their hours, successfully petition the EDC to have your number of employees reduced, outsource your jobs to other countries as opposed to developing a local workforce to do those jobs...all while still being in compliance and retaining your tax benefits.

You can simply say that there are "no qualified local workers", while making no effort to train any. You can ignore UVI as a potential source of interns. You can post job listings at DOL that you have no intention of filling.

It's easy to defeat the spirit of the EDC agreement.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2015 06:45PM by JahRustyFerrari.

Re: EDC Companies and Employment - Bill 31-0292

JahRustyFerrari
December 23, 2015 06:19PM

Registered: 7 years ago
Posts: 240

Quote
cre
Quote
monogram
The point is to prevent the hiring of locals for such time until the non-resident employees become residents and then firing off the locals. Wouldn't put it past the EDC folks.

I see your point in certain situations, like a strickly hourly job or something like a duration contract (3months, 6months, or sometimes a year), but when you're dealing with a salary that makes no sense. They'd open themselves to too many lawsuits for breach of contract. The more you speak on the topic is the more I feel like you don't understand the process and you're just speaking because you can.

There is no such thing as a "breach of contract". You have signed on as an "At will" employee...please read your contract. That means the company you're working for can walk in at any moment and tell you that your services are no longer needed, whether you are salaried or not.

Re: EDC Companies and Employment - Bill 31-0292

LiquidFluoride
December 23, 2015 08:37PM

Registered: 5 years ago
Posts: 1,940

very simple code here: [.quote=name] what you want to quote [./quote] <-- just remove the " . "s

Quote
JahRustyFerrari
it is all about race, and anyone who denies it is quite unaware of, or willfully ignorant of, the situation in the world today.

Apparently, the most uncomfortable topic for some people is to face this reality.

FYI, "local" is code for "Black". A Caucasian who comes to work in the islands is not considered when people make scathing remarks about "local" workers. I am sure you are aware of other code words and terms that are meant to refer to Black people. Don't say we are "playing victim" because we realize when we are being slighted.

What code?

Was I suppose to get a decoder ring?

are you saying that when I say that I see a systemic work ethic issue among "local" workers that I'm really saying something about race?

What exactly lead you to that conclusion? why would you leap into victimhood with both feet when there is (honestly) absolutely no evidence that what you are saying is true from what I can see, or what I have said. I was absolutely not referencing race whatsoever in my comments. There is a part of the culture in this region has accepted or enforced certain behaviors which are not commonly accepted as professional, or maybe it's that there is a desire to avoid conflict so things are not corrected.

Either way, to say you haven't noticed it makes me wonder how long you've been gone for, I"ve only been here for about 3 years but I get a sense that this is not a new thing.

Re: EDC Companies and Employment - Bill 31-0292

monogram
December 23, 2015 09:30PM

Registered: 3 years ago
Posts: 446

Quote
JahRustyFerrari

There is no such thing as a "breach of contract". You have signed on as an "At will" employee...please read your contract. That means the company you're working for can walk in at any moment and tell you that your services are no longer needed, whether you are salaried or not.

thumbs up It's amazing how many people don't know that.

Re: EDC Companies and Employment - Bill 31-0292

cre
December 23, 2015 10:18PM

Registered: 2 years ago
Posts: 67

Lol. You two seem to know all the answers to all the questions of the Virgin Islands world. For you to say there's no such thing as "breach of contract" is reaching a bit. You don't think? If you're a salaried employee and you're fired for stupid reasons. You could sue for loss wages and other things. I have read my contract...Have you read my contract? Last time I checked me, my employer, and their lawyers were the only ones who read it.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2015 10:27PM by cre.

Re: EDC Companies and Employment - Bill 31-0292

JahRustyFerrari
December 24, 2015 05:31AM

Registered: 7 years ago
Posts: 240

Quote
cre
Lol. You two seem to know all the answers to all the questions of the Virgin Islands world. For you to say there's no such thing as "breach of contract" is reaching a bit. You don't think? If you're a salaried employee and you're fired for stupid reasons. You could sue for loss wages and other things. I have read my contract...Have you read my contract? Last time I checked me, my employer, and their lawyers were the only ones who read it.


LOL back at you...if your contract has an "at will" clause, which it most likely does, you can be terminated at any time at the employer's discretion, whether you are salaried or not. You cannot claim "breach of contract". You have also signed an arbitration clause, which will prevent you from suing your employer. You could take it to civil court, but you will have a difficult time proving your case. The employer does not have to provide a reason for terminating you, and you can also leave at any time without giving a reason.

You don't have a special contract. It is all boilerplate, with a few minor changes to dates, salaries, locations, etc. Your contract reads very much like anyone else's. The contract is designed to benefit your employer, not you.

I hope you are not under the impression that the company you're working for is all about your best interests.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/24/2015 05:58AM by JahRustyFerrari.

Re: EDC Companies and Employment - Bill 31-0292

JahRustyFerrari
December 24, 2015 05:44AM

Registered: 7 years ago
Posts: 240

Quote
LiquidFluoride
very simple code here: [.quote=name] what you want to quote [./quote] <-- just remove the " . "s

Quote
JahRustyFerrari
it is all about race, and anyone who denies it is quite unaware of, or willfully ignorant of, the situation in the world today.

Apparently, the most uncomfortable topic for some people is to face this reality.

FYI, "local" is code for "Black". A Caucasian who comes to work in the islands is not considered when people make scathing remarks about "local" workers. I am sure you are aware of other code words and terms that are meant to refer to Black people. Don't say we are "playing victim" because we realize when we are being slighted.

What code?

Was I suppose to get a decoder ring?

are you saying that when I say that I see a systemic work ethic issue among "local" workers that I'm really saying something about race?

What exactly lead you to that conclusion? why would you leap into victimhood with both feet when there is (honestly) absolutely no evidence that what you are saying is true from what I can see, or what I have said. I was absolutely not referencing race whatsoever in my comments. There is a part of the culture in this region has accepted or enforced certain behaviors which are not commonly accepted as professional, or maybe it's that there is a desire to avoid conflict so things are not corrected.

Either way, to say you haven't noticed it makes me wonder how long you've been gone for, I"ve only been here for about 3 years but I get a sense that this is not a new thing.

I have enjoyed our discussion. Thanks, you're a good debater.big grin

Merry Christmas, and a Happy and Prosperous New Year.

May we all live in peace and brotherhood, with love and respect for all of our fellow humans who share this little blue world travelling through the vastness of space and time.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/24/2015 05:54AM by JahRustyFerrari.

Re: EDC Companies and Employment - Bill 31-0292

cre
December 24, 2015 07:27AM

Registered: 2 years ago
Posts: 67

I know my employer doesn't have my best interest in mind. But I think because I said I just came out of college you feel like I never saw a contract in a day of my life or did any real development work. I'm 30 so I didn't graduate from HS then just sat and look at the stars until I graduated from college. I never worked at IBM or any of those big companies you seem to always humble brag about but I do have some experience under my belt. Again you can't tell me what I signed or negotiated so please stop saying "you did this or you did that" ...My contract isn't an at will employment agreement btw so there goes your arguement. I'm getting to the gray area where I'd have to give info to clearly prove a point. There's a confidentiality clause though so I'll gracefully bow out on this. Most of my 20 something post were in here.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/24/2015 07:29AM by cre.

Re: EDC Companies and Employment - Bill 31-0292

watruw8ing4
December 24, 2015 08:05AM

Registered: 11 years ago
Posts: 851

Quote
cre
I know my employer doesn't have my best interest in mind. But I think because I said I just came out of college you feel like I never saw a contract in a day of my life or did any real development work. I'm 30 so I didn't graduate from HS then just sat and look at the stars until I graduated from college. I never worked at IBM or any of those big companies you seem to always humble brag about but I do have some experience under my belt. Again you can't tell me what I signed or negotiated so please stop saying "you did this or you did that" ...My contract isn't an at will employment agreement btw so there goes your arguement. I'm getting to the gray area where I'd have to give info to clearly prove a point. There's a confidentiality clause though so I'll gracefully bow out on this. Most of my 20 something post were in here.

I believe you. Arbitration and at will employment are the norm. But I was able to negotiate a few contracts that guaranteed my employment for specified time periods before I retired. I saw this a lot in IT. On one of those, I even had a clause that said I could leave with no notice (thank goodness, because the job was horrendous, and I gave them 2 days, after sticking it out for 6 months of a 2 year contract).

Re: EDC Companies and Employment - Bill 31-0292

JahRustyFerrari
December 24, 2015 08:40AM

Registered: 7 years ago
Posts: 240

Quote
cre
I know my employer doesn't have my best interest in mind. But I think because I said I just came out of college you feel like I never saw a contract in a day of my life or did any real development work. I'm 30 so I didn't graduate from HS then just sat and look at the stars until I graduated from college. I never worked at IBM or any of those big companies you seem to always humble brag about but I do have some experience under my belt. Again you can't tell me what I signed or negotiated so please stop saying "you did this or you did that" ...My contract isn't an at will employment agreement btw so there goes your arguement. I'm getting to the gray area where I'd have to give info to clearly prove a point. There's a confidentiality clause though so I'll gracefully bow out on this. Most of my 20 something post were in here.

Hey, no hard feelings sir...I sincerely wish you all of the best in your new position, and I never meant to imply that you're "green" lol.

I wish you the Happiest of Holidays, and a wonderful New Year.

Keep on Coding big grin

Re: EDC Companies and Employment - Bill 31-0292

islandjoan
December 24, 2015 09:26AM

Registered: 11 years ago
Posts: 1,460

Merry Christmas, and a Happy and Prosperous New Year.

May we all live in peace and brotherhood, with love and respect for all of our fellow humans who share this little blue world travelling through the vastness of space and time


thumbs upthumbs uphappyhappy

JahRustyFerrari, same to you!!!

Re: EDC Companies and Employment - Bill 31-0292

Matt T
December 24, 2015 09:41AM

Registered: 12 years ago
Posts: 260

This is the kind of vimovingcenter spirit I miss. Friendly and healthy debate with consideration given to other people's feelings.

Season's Greetings to all. I feel blessed to be part of the Virgin Islands community! Together we can achieve great things!

One Love and Aloha!

Re: EDC Companies and Employment - Bill 31-0292

LiquidFluoride
December 24, 2015 10:58AM

Registered: 5 years ago
Posts: 1,940

Quote
JahRustyFerrari
I have enjoyed our discussion. Thanks, you're a good debater.big grin
.

I've also enjoyed it & I hope you took it just as that (a debate), I love to explore issues and am VERY good at emotional detachment ( my latest hobby has been learning the Trivium and Quadrivium (this is an excellent source: Trivium Education) which is the basis of historically taught critical thinking and all about logical fallacy; debates are a great way to shift my thinking into more structured & critical methodologies.).

We are all absolutely entitled to our opinions; but we are all hopefully also willing to re-assess our positions on topics from time to time (or all the time.. haha).

Remember: the only constant is change! (not sure if that's a quote or not).

Happy holidays!

If you ever come back to STX be sure to hit up Cruzan Cowgirls, even if you don't want to go for a ride I'd love to meet another IT pro. from here.


Quote
Matt T
This is the kind of vimovingcenter spirit I miss. Friendly and healthy debate with consideration given to other people's feelings.

Season's Greetings to all. I feel blessed to be part of the Virgin Islands community! Together we can achieve great things!

One Love and Aloha!

thumbs up

Re: EDC Companies and Employment - Bill 31-0292

islandjoan
December 24, 2015 11:43AM

Registered: 11 years ago
Posts: 1,460

Hey JahRustyFerrari, cre, monogram and LiquidFlouride:

check out this info about IT training in the VI:

vingn article about training at St Josephs

Re: EDC Companies and Employment - Bill 31-0292

cre
December 24, 2015 11:51AM

Registered: 2 years ago
Posts: 67

Quote
islandjoan
Hey JahRustyFerrari, cre, monogram and LiquidFlouride:

check out this info about IT training in the VI:

vingn article about training at St Josephs

I seen that. I commented also.


Quote
myself
I applaud this, definitely a step in the right direction, but what about the kids who aren't interested in the network and plugging in the wires? Like the future UI/UX designers and Web/App Devs. We gotta create an environment to nurture them also. What's good with having the all the infrastructure if we aren't also setting up kids to build on it. When companies roll in looking for talent that way we'll be ready. I hope there's something in the works for that. I couldn't imagine being a strictly IT guy. I'm interested in design and web technologies so I looked for degrees in that field and supplemented my coursework with online education and books. I'm not a unique case I'm pretty sure there's people in their teens or younger who want a similar track.

Join the discussion. Click the button below to Login or Register now!

Click here to login

  • Blue Ocean Transport

Moving to the U.S. Virgin Islands?

Settlers Handbook
Only $17.95

The Settlers Handbook for the U.S. Virgin Islands is your guide to moving to St. Croix, St. Thomas, St. John and Water Island.

The current 18th Edition, released in January 2016, will help you explore your dream of island living. A solid reference book, it was first published in 1975. That's 40 years of helping people move to the islands. A must read. Order today.

Order Today

Advertise

Join VIMovingCenter.com Today!

Tell prospective and current residents about your business.

Learn More →

Sister Sites

VITraders

USVI Books & Souvenirs

VInow

USVI Vacation Guide

Living in de V.I.

USVI Relocation DVD

Proud Supporter

VI Olympic Team

For over 45 years, the Virgin Islands has celebrated the Olympic tradition by sending our athletes to compete.

Learn More →