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Letting go of god
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rotorhead
October 22, 2012 05:47PM

Registered: 12 years ago
Posts: 2,440

Funny.



Re: Respecting the beliefs of others

OldTart
October 23, 2012 07:46AM

Registered: 5 years ago
Posts: 6,524

Quote
rotorhead
Have you ever noticed how they want all of us to stop what we are doing at government meetings, sporting events, etc to pay homage to their god.

I've found that more the case here in the USVI than I ever did stateside. I've been involved with several community groups over the years who open and close every meeting with a hand-holding prayer and just find it an uncomfortable situation to be in. I totally respect other's beliefs and have a very open mind where all religions and beliefs are concerned but when a general meeting has absolutely nothing to do with those beliefs, it's inappropriate in my opinion to offer thanks to God and a plea for guidance. Let's get down to discussing sewage run-off and leave your God out of the proceedings! If you want to say a prayer then do it quietly and in your own head. big grin

Re: Respecting the beliefs of others

vicanuck
October 23, 2012 08:33AM

Registered: 7 years ago
Posts: 2,065

I quit Rotary for that very reason. I was part of a great club until a new president came along who felt the need to pray all the time.

Re: Respecting the beliefs of others

Alana33
October 23, 2012 09:13AM

Registered: 5 years ago
Posts: 11,580

The main reason that the majority of people fled Europe to come to a "New World" was to escape religious persecution.
Our Pledge of Allegiance say: One Nation under God."
Our currency says: "In God We Trust."
The Constitution protects those rights to practice and have religious freedom.

I believe in your right not to believe but the majority of people continue to want religion of some type in their lives.
It's a matter of "Respecting the beliefs of others" as you stated.

Re: Respecting the beliefs of others

IslandHops
October 23, 2012 01:17PM

Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 929

Um, the original pledge of allegiance is:

I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

In 1923 it was changed to clarify that the flag was the USA flag:

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

The words "under god" were not added until 1954 - probably more intended to distinguish us from those god-less commies. Likewise the "In god we trust" wasn't added to our currency until 1956. Prior to that it was E pluribus unum.

I'd be quite happy to go back to the 1923 version myself.

Re: Respecting the beliefs of others
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rotorhead
October 23, 2012 01:27PM

Registered: 12 years ago
Posts: 2,440

Quote
Alana33
I believe in your right not to believe but the majority of people continue to want religion of some type in their lives.
It's a matter of "Respecting the beliefs of others" as you stated.

You didn't read what I said. I respect your right to believe anything that you want, but I do not have to respect what you believe. Before I believe something it has to be reasonable.

You can believe that the Easter Bunny is GOD if you want, but I do not have to respect that belief. You have a right to your beliefs but you cannot demand that I respect them, and you cannot demand that I stop pointing out how utterly ridiculous those beliefs are. Blasphemy is a victimless crime.

If you put any faith in the far fetched stories in the bible, koran, talmud, book of morman or the vedas that is your business but until someone comes forward with REAL evidence to support them they are just myths.

So feel free to sit around your fire with a bone in your nose and chant at the moon but don't expect me to join in.

[whywontgodhealamputees.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/23/2012 01:52PM by rotorhead.

Re: Respecting the beliefs of others

blu4u
October 23, 2012 01:39PM

Registered: 6 years ago
Posts: 842

Quote
rotorhead
So feel free to sit around your fire with a bone in your nose and chant at the moon but don't expect me to join in.

please post date and time of "bone-in-nose-fire-moon-chant" so, I can attend (with a video camera)....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/23/2012 01:40PM by blu4u.

Re: Respecting the beliefs of others
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rotorhead
October 23, 2012 02:22PM

Registered: 12 years ago
Posts: 2,440

Quote
blu4u
Quote
rotorhead
So feel free to sit around your fire with a bone in your nose and chant at the moon but don't expect me to join in.

please post date and time of "bone-in-nose-fire-moon-chant" so, I can attend (with a video camera)....

I'll keep you informed. In the meantime you could always attend one of the local Zombie Fests. You know the one where everyone drinks blood and eats flesh. I believe they call it Eucharist. It is usually led by a guy in a clown costume. Take your camera and enjoy.

Re: Respecting the beliefs of others

IslandHops
October 23, 2012 03:37PM

Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 929

Quote
rotorhead

I'll keep you informed. In the meantime you could always attend one of the local Zombie Fests. You know the one where everyone drinks blood and eats flesh. I believe they call it Eucharist. It is usually led by a guy in a clown costume. Take your camera and enjoy.

LMAO cool

Re: Respecting the beliefs of others

Alana33
October 23, 2012 03:53PM

Registered: 5 years ago
Posts: 11,580

That's just rude and uncalled for.

Re: Respecting the beliefs of others

IslandHops
October 23, 2012 04:09PM

Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 929

Quote
Alana33
That's just rude and uncalled for.

<humor> Who died and made you the pope? </humor>
The point here is to stop taking ourselves so seriously. If you want to believe some do-good-er died on the cross a couple of thousand years ago so your sins would be forgiven, so be it. Doesn't mean others need to subscribe to your beliefs, nor view the rituals in a same sacrosanct light. There is some humor involved here. You're comment is one that would seem to side toward toward calling a jihad against a cartoonist?

Re: Respecting the beliefs of others

Alana33
October 23, 2012 08:06PM

Registered: 5 years ago
Posts: 11,580

Quote
IslandHops
Quote
Alana33
That's just rude and uncalled for.

<humor> Who died and made you the pope? </humor>
The point here is to stop taking ourselves so seriously. If you want to believe some do-good-er died on the cross a couple of thousand years ago so your sins would be forgiven, so be it. Doesn't mean others need to subscribe to your beliefs, nor view the rituals in a same sacrosanct light. There is some humor involved here. You're comment is one that would seem to side toward toward calling a jihad against a cartoonist?

I decided to start my own with me as pope.
Wannajoin?big grin

Re: Respecting the beliefs of others

blu4u
October 23, 2012 09:07PM

Registered: 6 years ago
Posts: 842

Quote
Alana33
Quote
IslandHops
Quote
Alana33
That's just rude and uncalled for.

<humor> Who died and made you the pope? </humor>
The point here is to stop taking ourselves so seriously. If you want to believe some do-good-er died on the cross a couple of thousand years ago so your sins would be forgiven, so be it. Doesn't mean others need to subscribe to your beliefs, nor view the rituals in a same sacrosanct light. There is some humor involved here. You're comment is one that would seem to side toward toward calling a jihad against a cartoonist?

I decided to start my own with me as pope.
Wannajoin?big grin

Al, Actually, if you run for Pope on pro-choice platform, you just might get my vote....
Roto, This is creepy, but when I was very young, I believed that communion was the body of Christ. You know, like beef jerky, but sliced real thin. I also believed that priest's had ESP. After 16 years of Catholic education (BS from a Jesuit University), I don't believe in anything except the human will to survive at all costs. Peace be with you.

Re: Respecting the beliefs of others
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rotorhead
October 24, 2012 12:57AM

Registered: 12 years ago
Posts: 2,440

1. Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature.
2. Guide reproduction wisely — improving fitness and diversity.
3. Unite humanity with a living new language.
4. Rule passion — faith — tradition — and all things with tempered reason.
5. Protect people and nations with fair laws and just courts.
6. Let all nations rule internally resolving external disputes in a world court.
7. Avoid petty laws and useless officials.
8. Balance personal rights with social duties.
9. Prize truth — beauty — love — seeking harmony with the infinite.
10. Be not a cancer on the earth — Leave room for nature — Leave room for nature.

Re: Respecting the beliefs of others

OldTart
October 24, 2012 06:16AM

Registered: 5 years ago
Posts: 6,524

Quote
rotorhead
2. Guide reproduction wisely — improving fitness and diversity.

A certain Führer had the same philosophy several decades ago ...

Re: Respecting the beliefs of others

IslandHops
October 24, 2012 08:42AM

Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 929

Quote
Alana33
I decided to start my own with me as pope.
Wannajoin?big grin

Sorry, I'm a ordained minister of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Our afterlife involves a beer volcano and strippers!

Re: Respecting the beliefs of others
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Bombi
October 24, 2012 09:49AM

Registered: 10 years ago
Posts: 2,088

Islandhops, that makes two of us. Did you just get a letter from the Prophet Bobby?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2012 09:53AM by Bombi.

Re: Respecting the beliefs of others
avatar

rotorhead
October 24, 2012 10:22AM

Registered: 12 years ago
Posts: 2,440

Quote
OldTart
Quote
rotorhead
2. Guide reproduction wisely — improving fitness and diversity.

A certain Führer had the same philosophy several decades ago ...

I thought they were after "purity" not "diversity".
Check out "Homo Sapiens 1900" on Netflix streaming. It's a documentary on eugenics in the early 20th century.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2012 10:51AM by rotorhead.

Re: Respecting the beliefs of others

OldTart
October 24, 2012 10:56AM

Registered: 5 years ago
Posts: 6,524

Quote
rotorhead
Quote
OldTart
Quote
rotorhead
2. Guide reproduction wisely — improving fitness and diversity.

A certain Führer had the same philosophy several decades ago ...

I thought they were after "purity" not "diversity".
Check out "Homo Sapiens 1900" on Netflix streaming. It's a documentary on eugenics in the early 20th century.

Hitler's ideological quest for Aryan purity was belied by his army which was the most racially diverse of any nation's and was thus highly ambiguous. I saw Cohen's documentary.

Re: Respecting the beliefs of others
avatar

rotorhead
October 24, 2012 11:29AM

Registered: 12 years ago
Posts: 2,440

Quote
Bombi
Islandhops, that makes two of us. Did you just get a letter from the Prophet Bobby?

The Prophet Bobby and girlfriend Harlene.

The pictures of Bobby always seem fuzzy, it must be his aura of pastativity.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2012 11:31AM by rotorhead.

Re: Respecting the beliefs of others

IslandHops
October 24, 2012 11:57AM

Registered: 8 years ago
Posts: 929

Quote
Bombi
Islandhops, that makes two of us. Did you just get a letter from the Prophet Bobby?

Indeed I did! A Pastafarian in good standing. I think there are several of us on-island. Of course I'm from the Reformed wing of the Church as I no longer imbibe on holy Fridays.

Re: Respecting the beliefs of others
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Bombi
October 24, 2012 12:10PM

Registered: 10 years ago
Posts: 2,088

right on, roto and islandhops, I am on STX

Re: Respecting the beliefs of others
avatar

rotorhead
October 24, 2012 12:36PM

Registered: 12 years ago
Posts: 2,440

Examples of fairytales. Why is it so easy for people to recognize one story as a fairytale yet accept another fairytale as truth.
Religion and Delusion.

One of my favorite stories, being from the bible belt myself.

Have you ever known someone who is a die-hard Christian? You know, the ones who insist on praying over every morsel of food they eat, who insist on talking about Jesus as though he were a rock star, the ones who like to look down their thin little noses at you for having a life? Growing up in the deep South of the U.S.A. I have had lifelong opportunities to know such people and as a psychologist, I've recently come to a certain realization. But let me give you a "For Instance:"

Say a perfect stranger came up to you in a public setting. This person acted as though they knew you, despite having just met you for the first time. They strike up a conversation and somewhere in the middle they ask you if you have accepted the Easter Bunny as your God. With a perfectly straight face, they then proceed to tell you how the Earth started out as quiche baked in a giant oven for a week and the moon is just a hunk of cheese that fell off when they took it out to cool. Then after the quiche was cooled, the Easter Bunny came down, grabbed a couple of handfulls of the baked goodness, breathed life into it, and that's where humankind originated. Now, they go on to tell you story after story, and one story about how the Easter Bunny one day was hunted down and shot by the other inhabitants of the quiche, and they didn't just shoot him, they nailed him to a wall and tormented him for days on end before finally putting him out of his misery. And the Easter Bunny died so that no one would ever have to go hungry for quiche ever again. And that's why you should accept the Easter Bunny as your personal Lord and Savior. Not only that, but if you don't, when you die you'll have to move to a planet where there IS NO QUICHE and you have to do without it's savory goodness for all eternity.

It would take you all of how many seconds to walk away from this lunatic? Or maybe you're like me, and you stick around to see just how crazy they are...

Why is it that when we change the names and some of the smaller details it's easy to see how crazy it is? Yet there are millions of people who are otherwise reasonable and intelligent who fall for a different version of the Easter Bunny story and they just eat it up like it was quiche.

In a very literal, clinical context, to be a faithful Christian is to suffer from a Delusional Psychosis. They believe things that cannot be proven, things that any reasonably intelligent person would see through immediately in the right light, and they don't know they're delusional. In a very real sense, there is no way to differentiate between Christianity and other forms of Psychosis, but because we have gotten used to overlooking the "religious" we no longer see them as mentally ill.

Re: Respecting the beliefs of others

OldTart
October 24, 2012 02:21PM

Registered: 5 years ago
Posts: 6,524

One of the many interesting conversations I've had with a die-hard centered around access to the "Kingdom of Heaven" upon one's demise. The woman to whom I was speaking said that, "although you may not like me saying this, if you give yourself to Jesus all your present troubles will go away and you'll be able to enter the Kingdom at the end." I'd heard the concept before and curiously asked, "But if I don't feel inclined to "give myself to Jesus" I'll be denied access to Heaven?" She confirmed that this was the case.

"So let's look at this way. I've never knowingly done harm to another human being or to any of God's creatures throughout my life. At the other end of the spectrum is a mass murderer who horrendously and diabolically tortured and killed dozens and has been incarcerated on Death Row awaiting execution for many years. In the meantime, this person has "given" himself to Jesus. Are you saying that this person will be eligible to enter the Kingdom of Heaven simply because he's "given" himself to Jesus but that I will be denied access?"

She replied in the affirmative, at which point I politely responded that our conversation couldn't continue because there could be no meeting of the minds.

I'd remind you, Rotorhead, that "respect" and "belief" aren't synonymous. You said earlier that, "I respect your right to believe anything that you want, but I do not have to respect what you believe." No, you don't, but hopefully you respect the person enough to not trash and dismiss them for their beliefs. You can argue basic theology 'til the cows come home (and in fact you'll be arguing it until your dying breath as it's been a source of contention, dissension and literary fodder since the dawn of man) but it's a bit of a waste of time in my opinion if it becomes some sort of "life force".

Re: Respecting the beliefs of others

JahRustyFerrari
October 24, 2012 03:12PM

Registered: 6 years ago
Posts: 238

Quote
rotorhead
Quote
Alana33
I believe in your right not to believe but the majority of people continue to want religion of some type in their lives.
It's a matter of "Respecting the beliefs of others" as you stated.

You didn't read what I said. I respect your right to believe anything that you want, but I do not have to respect what you believe. Before I believe something it has to be reasonable.

You can believe that the Easter Bunny is GOD if you want, but I do not have to respect that belief. You have a right to your beliefs but you cannot demand that I respect them, and you cannot demand that I stop pointing out how utterly ridiculous those beliefs are. Blasphemy is a victimless crime.

If you put any faith in the far fetched stories in the bible, koran, talmud, book of morman or the vedas that is your business but until someone comes forward with REAL evidence to support them they are just myths.

So feel free to sit around your fire with a bone in your nose and chant at the moon but don't expect me to join in.

[whywontgodhealamputees.com]

big grin

Why won't God heal amputees big grin

Probably because, in a perfect world, there would be no need for amputations.

Ya see...God made the mistake of allowing his creation to have a free will (which the creation uses to dismiss the existence of the Creator).

The creature used its free will to totally discombobulate the perfect world that it had been placed upon.

The creature is currently attempting to divest itself of the remnants of its inherent spirituality by embracing abominations such as eugenics and evolution...while simultaneously failing to explain, in evolutionary terms, simplistics such as how a simple blade of grass can possess enough complexity to perform photosynthesis....religious belief is nothing compared to the belief that a blade of grass, over millions of years, developed enough intelligence to perform photosynthesis...wonder where it got that first spark of intelligence about its surroundings from. The creature is rapidly becoming an empty shell, devoid of any spirituality, believing only in things seen, and wondering what the hell happened even as it causes its own destruction.

I am a prototype blade of grass, one billion years ago...over the millenia, I will learn how to produce my own food by using the sun's light.
I am a prototype bird. Over the millenia, I will learn how to make my bones hollow, and I will learn aerodynamics.
I am a mahogany tree...over the millenia, I will learn how to produce seeds that have a perfect airfoil which will allow them to fly through the air in the manner of a helicopter.

Evolution theory is more of a howler than any religious belief.

The creature needs to build a collider three miles in diameter in order to attempt to duplicate an insignificantly small fraction of the processes performed by our sun, a minor star, in a trillionth of a second.

The creature is clueless, and is dangerous enough in its cluelessness to remove itself entirely from the perfect planet it was placed upon.

You don't need to believe in anybody's 'holy book'...those were written by men trying to explain stuff they didn't understand. You also don't need to be so damn sure about anything...the universe is a vast place. Maybe you are meant for more than just death. You don't know.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/24/2012 03:23PM by JahRustyFerrari.

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