Good news Trump supporters! You are right, your man isn't a Fascist.  

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LiquidFluoride
(@LiquidFluoride)
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December 15, 2015 5:55 pm  

Democrats = Fascist

Republicans = Fascist

That's just how it's been since at least the 70's.

Demo's grow Fascism via "Social" programs that benefit corporations

Repubs grow fascism via Military programs that benefit corporations

We can argue over which hand is better to get slapped by, left or right; but in the end we are still getting slapped.

And the more guns available, the more deaths. Until we can acknowledge the problem, and come together, instead of using the fallacy of guns don't kill people argument, hiding behind the 2nd, and dismissing parts of the problem, such as writing off children as a small but tragic stat, it will continue.

Actually, the more guns available, the LESS death.

Guns stop gun deaths, always have.

2007 Harvard study found this to be the case... Statistics back it up also.

More guns = Less crime

The fact that you could live on these islands (where gun ownership is practically illegal) and NOT understand that the problem is keeping guns from honest people is very confusing to me.

If we had gun laws like Alaska this island would turn around QUICKLY.

I would carry everywhere I went, just as I always have.

Gun owners are generally very responsible.

For example, I was assaulted this weekend, punched in the eye because I said something someone else didn't like.

I had a combat knife on me AND a sword... I did not use either on the "other guy" because my life was not in danger. This is a typical incident with an armed victim and a raging asshole perpetrator.

There was a [URL="http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/abinazir/2011/06/15/what-are-chances-you-would-be-born/"]1: 400,000,000,000,000[/URL] chance of you being born: what have you done with your miraculous life today?


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watruw8ing4
(@watruw8ing4)
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December 15, 2015 8:53 pm  

Shortly after Sandy Hook, there was a bill with bi-partisan co-sponsors that addressed mental health. It was shot down. There have been other bills since then. So it's not being ignored. Just can't get the Republican Congress on board. Wonder why?

Look I realize its easier to have an automatic "boogey man" to blame when things dont pan out inline with your preferences , but it appears that both sides still have a way to go -

Mighty condescending of you to think I haven't done any research to back up my opinion. Cornyn's bill, as I read it, will make it easier for the involuntarily committed to get their hands on a gun immediately after discharge. This is the time when they are at most risk, because they often experience the same stressers that affect them, after being insulated for a while. That can lead to more suicide, not less. Its a shame because, otherwise, his bill looks pretty good.

As for the availability of guns in relation to suicide. A gun in the home increases the risk of successful suicide. This article covers the US. But the statistics comparing other high wealth countries correlate as well.

Guns & Suicide: The Hidden Toll - Harvard Magazine

I would imagine that having drugs/medicine at home increases the odds of OD/suicide as well.

Following your logic we should be banning drugs

Did you even read the article? A gun creates an increased risk of dying over other methods. Look, my daughter is bipolar and had a gun in her house. My heart would race every time my phone rang. I suppose you've never experienced how deep the dark moods can go? And how fast? Knowing the facts stated in that article, her husband removed the guns from the house. Removing the medium which has the most chance of killing her is not a guarantee. But in the real world, it's better than reacting with a pithy "we should be banning drugs" logical fallacy.

We can keep arguing over semantics and nitpick the statistics to "death". But guns, in the hands of the wrong people still cause unnecessary death on a daily basis. And the more guns available, the more deaths. Until we can acknowledge the problem, and come together, instead of using the fallacy of guns don't kill people argument, hiding behind the 2nd, and dismissing parts of the problem, such as writing off children as a small but tragic stat, it will continue.

Until folks can realize the tool is not responsible for the action, we will piss away time and money on little or no gain not dealing with the cause and treatment of suicide. And I cannot fathom the logic that with finite resources, we shouldn't prioritize our effort to provide maximum benefit. So I should mark you down for writing off the 21k+ suicide victims

I rest my case.

Who knew making up others points was so much fun...

Who knew people would derive pleasure from such a serious subject?


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JohnnyU
(@JohnnyU)
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December 15, 2015 10:05 pm  

Shortly after Sandy Hook, there was a bill with bi-partisan co-sponsors that addressed mental health. It was shot down. There have been other bills since then. So it's not being ignored. Just can't get the Republican Congress on board. Wonder why?

Look I realize its easier to have an automatic "boogey man" to blame when things dont pan out inline with your preferences , but it appears that both sides still have a way to go -

Mighty condescending of you to think I haven't done any research to back up my opinion. Cornyn's bill, as I read it, will make it easier for the involuntarily committed to get their hands on a gun immediately after discharge. This is the time when they are at most risk, because they often experience the same stressers that affect them, after being insulated for a while. That can lead to more suicide, not less. Its a shame because, otherwise, his bill looks pretty good.

The article contradicts your initial claim that the GOP "Couldn't get on board" it when its the GOP offering solutions/bills

As for the availability of guns in relation to suicide. A gun in the home increases the risk of successful suicide. This article covers the US. But the statistics comparing other high wealth countries correlate as well.

Guns & Suicide: The Hidden Toll - Harvard Magazine

I would imagine that having drugs/medicine at home increases the odds of OD/suicide as well.

Following your logic we should be banning drugs

Did you even read the article? A gun creates an increased risk of dying over other methods. Look, my daughter is bipolar and had a gun in her house. My heart would race every time my phone rang. I suppose you've never experienced how deep the dark moods can go? And how fast? Knowing the facts stated in that article, her husband removed the guns from the house. Removing the medium which has the most chance of killing her is not a guarantee. But in the real world, it's better than reacting with a pithy "we should be banning drugs" logical fallacy.

I hope your daughter gets the care and help she needs. I've seen suicide attempts by a family member diagnosed w/ Depression/BiPolar

Just because you dont agree with something doesn't make it a "Logical Fallacy". Again the firearm is only the tool, why not deal with the cause? If a family makes the decision to remove firearms from the house for what ever reason, I don't think anyone has an issue with it.

We can keep arguing over semantics and nitpick the statistics to "death". But guns, in the hands of the wrong people still cause unnecessary death on a daily basis. And the more guns available, the more deaths. Until we can acknowledge the problem, and come together, instead of using the fallacy of guns don't kill people argument, hiding behind the 2nd, and dismissing parts of the problem, such as writing off children as a small but tragic stat, it will continue.

Until folks can realize the tool is not responsible for the action, we will piss away time and money on little or no gain not dealing with the cause and treatment of suicide. And I cannot fathom the logic that with finite resources, we shouldn't prioritize our effort to provide maximum benefit. So I should mark you down for writing off the 21k+ suicide victims

I rest my case.

Glad we agree

Who knew making up others points was so much fun...

Who knew people would derive pleasure from such a serious subject?

Should I have ended it with /sarcasm to make my point clearer?


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Spartygrad95
(@Spartygrad95)
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December 15, 2015 10:13 pm  

The mental health system was taken apart during the Reagan Revolution where compassionate conservatives decided it was easier and cheaper to just throw the mentally ill in prison.


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watruw8ing4
(@watruw8ing4)
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December 15, 2015 11:17 pm  

And the more guns available, the more deaths. Until we can acknowledge the problem, and come together, instead of using the fallacy of guns don't kill people argument, hiding behind the 2nd, and dismissing parts of the problem, such as writing off children as a small but tragic stat, it will continue.

Actually, the more guns available, the LESS death.

Guns stop gun deaths, always have.

2007 Harvard study found this to be the case... Statistics back it up also.

More guns = Less crime

The fact that you could live on these islands (where gun ownership is practically illegal) and NOT understand that the problem is keeping guns from honest people is very confusing to me.

If we had gun laws like Alaska this island would turn around QUICKLY.

I would carry everywhere I went, just as I always have.

Gun owners are generally very responsible.

For example, I was assaulted this weekend, punched in the eye because I said something someone else didn't like.

I had a combat knife on me AND a sword... I did not use either on the "other guy" because my life was not in danger. This is a typical incident with an armed victim and a raging asshole perpetrator.

How about something a little more recent, also done in part by Harvard:
The Atlantic

And the international statistics do not back you up either. But, as I pointed out in my previous post, it's useless to nitpick stats, so I won't.

I'm not sure what makes you certain that being able to carry here would make the violence go away. Sure, you'd possibly be able to protect yourself if you had to, although anecdotal interviews from some arms trainers disagree, citing that even those with the best intentions must be mentally, as well as physically trained. Regardless, you seem to imply I'm against it. I'm not.


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OldTart
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December 16, 2015 8:49 am  

The mental health system was taken apart during the Reagan Revolution where compassionate conservatives decided it was easier and cheaper to just throw the mentally ill in prison.

Not to mention (and I know this from first hand personal experience) the thousands who were discharged with no notice back into the care of their families who were totally unequipped to deal with them. It was a disaster.


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watruw8ing4
(@watruw8ing4)
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December 16, 2015 4:01 pm  

The mental health system was taken apart during the Reagan Revolution where compassionate conservatives decided it was easier and cheaper to just throw the mentally ill in prison.

While that's sort of true, the caveat is that the governments (first in Cali, then other states and the Feds) were acting on the recommendations of the medical mental health organizations. They believed the newly developed drugs would revolutionize mental health treatment and reduce the need for inpatient services.

Cali had already experienced ill effects in more homeless and more incarcerations by the time Reagan took presidential office. But the mental health associations stayed their course. So he and Congress ignored the results too, and dropped Carter's community health initiative (which was showing promise), and continued closing doors.


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rotorhead
(@rotorhead)
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Posts: 2452
December 17, 2015 5:31 pm  

There's a common misperception that all Trump voters are white, working class men. But break down the polls and you get a very different picture of a Trump follower.

Many of them are women - possibly more than half, according to some surveys. Many have college degrees, and many don't even describe themselves as particularly conservative.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-35116035

With all of this gun talk, it must be time to renew my NRA membership. 😉

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
They say there's a heaven for those who will wait
Some say it's better but I say it ain't
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
the sinners are much more fun...
You know that only the good die young.
BJ


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Spartygrad95
(@Spartygrad95)
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Posts: 1885
December 17, 2015 7:17 pm  

There's a common misperception that all Trump voters are white, working class men. But break down the polls and you get a very different picture of a Trump follower.

Many of them are women - possibly more than half, according to some surveys. Many have college degrees, and many don't even describe themselves as particularly conservative.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-35116035

With all of this gun talk, it must be time to renew my NRA membership. 😉

The gun manufacturers whom the NRA represent thank you


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rotorhead
(@rotorhead)
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Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 2452
December 17, 2015 7:31 pm  

The gun manufacturers whom the NRA represent thank you

As a member they represent me as well. Thank You.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
They say there's a heaven for those who will wait
Some say it's better but I say it ain't
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
the sinners are much more fun...
You know that only the good die young.
BJ


ReplyQuote
Spartygrad95
(@Spartygrad95)
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Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 1885
December 17, 2015 8:18 pm  

The gun manufacturers whom the NRA represent thank you

As a member they represent me as well. Thank You.

If that makes you happy to believe that carry on.


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speee1dy
(@speee1dy)
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December 22, 2015 1:39 pm  

SPARTY-THAT WAS how many years ago and in no time the dems controlled the house/senates and were president, no one could undo that? seriously is that your argument.

go to gunfacts.info. legal gun ownership DOES deter crime.

taking away guns will not stop suicide, it will just change the method . my friends husband did not need a gun-he used a bridge


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LiquidFluoride
(@LiquidFluoride)
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December 22, 2015 3:41 pm  

SPARTY-THAT WAS how many years ago and in no time the dems controlled the house/senates and were president, no one could undo that? seriously is that your argument.

go to gunfacts.info. legal gun ownership DOES deter crime.

taking away guns will not stop suicide, it will just change the method . my friends husband did not need a gun-he used a bridge

we just had 3 officers jump off buildings in Korea.

BAN ALL BUILDINGS (or at least the ones taller than one story!)!

Tools are never the issue, people who use them are...

Did you hear about that insanity in Vegas? killing one person and injuring 37 others Should we ban cars?

There was a [URL="http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/abinazir/2011/06/15/what-are-chances-you-would-be-born/"]1: 400,000,000,000,000[/URL] chance of you being born: what have you done with your miraculous life today?


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speee1dy
(@speee1dy)
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December 22, 2015 4:26 pm  

(tu)


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Alana33
(@Alana33)
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LiquidFluoride
(@LiquidFluoride)
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December 22, 2015 7:11 pm  

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/18/gun-ownership-gun-deaths-study

http://nakedlaw.avvo.com/crime/the-6-least-violent-nations-in-the-world.html

Funny word twisting there...

Here's the study the top article is based on:

So the study found what again?

there was no significant correlation (P = .10) between guns per capita per country and crime rate

http://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(13)00444-0/abstract

There was a [URL="http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/abinazir/2011/06/15/what-are-chances-you-would-be-born/"]1: 400,000,000,000,000[/URL] chance of you being born: what have you done with your miraculous life today?


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Alana33
(@Alana33)
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December 22, 2015 9:47 pm  

They examined data from 27 developed countries, using gun ownership figures from the Small Arms Survey and deaths from the World Health Organisation, the National Center for Health Statistics and others. They also looked at crime rates compiled by the United Nations for an indication of the safety of each country.

More guns meant more deaths, they found. "The gun ownership rate was a strong and independent predictor of firearm-related death," says Bangalore. "Private gun ownership was highest in the US. Japan, on the other end, had an extremely low gun ownership rate. Similarly, South Africa (9.4 per 100,000) and the US (10.2 per 100,000) had extremely high firearm-related deaths, whereas the United Kingdom (0.25 per 100,000) had an extremely low rate of firearm-related deaths.

"There was a significant correlation between guns per head per country and the rate of firearm-related deaths with Japan being on one end of the spectrum and the US being on the other. This argues against the notion of more guns translating into less crime. South Africa was the only outlier in that the observed firearms-related death rate was several times higher than expected from gun ownership."


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Spartygrad95
(@Spartygrad95)
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December 22, 2015 9:58 pm  

So guns aren't the problem, mental illness is....

http://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/editorials/20150723-overriding-common-sense.ece

Ok!

"Go to gunfacts.org".. I literally just pissed myself. Hello.. Hello.. Echo. Lololololololol


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Alana33
(@Alana33)
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December 22, 2015 11:37 pm  

Hey, it's Texas. What did you expect?


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Spartygrad95
(@Spartygrad95)
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December 22, 2015 11:57 pm  

From Texas.. Nothing. I thought they were going to secede? If at first you don't secede, try try again


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LiquidFluoride
(@LiquidFluoride)
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December 23, 2015 12:19 pm  

So guns aren't the problem, mental illness is....

http://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/editorials/20150723-overriding-common-sense.ece

‘Conspiracy Theory’ Label Losing Insult Power, Study Shows

Funny that critical thinking was shunned for so long, now it's on the rise again.

Those mental health bills left far too much room for abuse; the government mishandles everything, giving them that kind of power would have been ridiculous.

There was a [URL="http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/abinazir/2011/06/15/what-are-chances-you-would-be-born/"]1: 400,000,000,000,000[/URL] chance of you being born: what have you done with your miraculous life today?


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Spartygrad95
(@Spartygrad95)
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December 23, 2015 1:37 pm  

It had bipartisan support and was killed because of the lunatic scientologists.


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LiquidFluoride
(@LiquidFluoride)
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Posts: 1937
December 23, 2015 5:12 pm  

It had bipartisan support and was killed because of the lunatic scientologists.

bipartisan support in texas is about like "bipartisan" support here...

These are my favorite Trump supporters:

There was a [URL="http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/abinazir/2011/06/15/what-are-chances-you-would-be-born/"]1: 400,000,000,000,000[/URL] chance of you being born: what have you done with your miraculous life today?


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Spartygrad95
(@Spartygrad95)
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December 24, 2015 2:15 pm  

It had bipartisan support and was killed because of the lunatic scientologists.

bipartisan support in texas is about like "bipartisan" support here...

These are my favorite Trump supporters:

I believe the guys behind those videos are from Australia and one of the just got shot from these pranks.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/30398569/it-s-funny-until-you-re-dead-controversial-prank-backlash/

Guess it doesn't matter who they support


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LiquidFluoride
(@LiquidFluoride)
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Posts: 1937
December 24, 2015 2:35 pm  

I believe the guys behind those videos are from Australia and one of the just got shot from these pranks.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/30398569/it-s-funny-until-you-re-dead-controversial-prank-backlash/

Guess it doesn't matter who they support

yeah, tongue 'n cheek comment.. I didn't think we were actually trying to stay on topic... were we?

There was a [URL="http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/abinazir/2011/06/15/what-are-chances-you-would-be-born/"]1: 400,000,000,000,000[/URL] chance of you being born: what have you done with your miraculous life today?


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