First I want to say thank you for having a good conversation about this, that it is not heated.
The Real I.D. Act was what Bush wanted, that all Americans be required to get a new identification card after 9/11. This way it would have been a way to prevent non-citizens from getting a false I.D. or it was called a national I.D. And as far as identification for criminal records, I think some of this information is on database with interpol. Like the guy in Haiti that was arrested, I'm not sure if he was Mexican or Honduran.
The Native Americans, yes, it is a federal registry and now have to be proved by bloodlines. But when we had the mass deportations that ended up deporting actual citizens, and also after the purchase of the Southwestern states, some we left and forced into Mexico. And some do have Spanish blood because history has it that Spain colonized Mexico.
I just wish that people realize the RepubliCons and DemocRats are doing, they are getting the masses of people to fight against each other in the name of votes. Like here in California, today Schwarzenegger announced again he was cutting programs that are for the poor, but no tax increases. It's all to play on the emotions of people, like with the early jail and prison releases, after the public can't take it anymore they agree to what they always want, and that's tax increases on the workers. GOP didn't want to sign extended unemployment benefits - at a time like this, that's not good. Like the GOP always call pet programs PORK, but at the same time they give benefits to their own states and donors, example a project to study Salmon. Liberals, regardless of the tax increases always have programs that at least keep people afloat - now if the people go out and buy drugs, that's their problem, they can't say they wasn't given any money.
Clinton signed NAFTA, and this has destroyed what little business Mexican farmers had. Big businesses have a way of destroying the little guy - much like WalMart. Calderon just recently busted up the unions in Mexico, the electrical workers, and mine workers. So now, with globalization, there's a new phrase for illegal immigrants, they are now calling them "economic refugees." I think I would prefer to call them 'economic immigrants,' because the word refugee has so a bad history behind the name, I also like 'guest worker,' better than economic refugee.
Another thing that should help explain my explanation about this is the businesses doing this and not government. When Americans apply for jobs, we have to take a drug test, a physical, and can't have a criminal background, and have to have a stable work history - yet, with the immigrants, these businesses don't even know their real names or anything else, but, they are hired.
I forgot to add this. First let me say, I'm not a very political person, activist or protestor. But, notice how the politicians always make the remark that people need to take a civics class, or that certain people shouldn't be able to vote. Well, they don't want to come right out and tell the truth about the G-8, G-20 conventions. Notice how there are Europeans out there arrested at the conventions, well, with the globalization and immigration, that's what some are protesting, that and capitalism, class and social divisions. What's happening now with immigration is the Kyoto Protocol or treaty. You can google this and it will say that this would devastate the lower and working classes and the middle class. Bush did not sign it, but, the other countries made it possible to pass. I guess that's why I keep saying that punishing the immigrants and protesting our government is not the right way.
I guess the another good example, notice with some of the convenience stores owned by Indian Nationals, sometimes you will only see Indian Nationals working in the stores. The nationwide news program about the Afghanistan National that stopped a robber by using a baseball bat, it was either a gas station or convenience store, the news interviewed him and said he wasn't a U.S. citizen. And that is why I keep saying to target the Latinos looks like racism, because there are other people here from other countries, and the business owners use the immigration system to bring in people from their countries to work in their businesses.:D
Ooh Tippi, that's not even fair.:D
As I have been saying all along, I'm not pro-immigration. It was here in Los Angeles that the schools like Thomas Jefferson high school had the race riots, there have been several schools. Blacks have been attacked on the streets, jails, schools and everywhere else. But to target one ethnic group will hand them a legal victory. In Texas, years ago, their was a news program about the kids would cross the border every day to go to elementary and junior high school for a free education and meals, and at the end of the day, they cross the border back to Mexico. So even with laws, which they seem to not care, the focus should be on employers.
Now just to show how I say this is not fair, there is a website that the title of the this was "getting a leg up on affirmation action." This was about Moroccan and Egyptian people saying on applications they mark African-American to guarantee them a place in the college. But when it came to applying for a job, they mark white as race to get the job. Is this fair when they don't consider themselves black?
Then to say that Mexicans or illegal immigrants of Latino backgrounds is wrong also. A criminal is a criminal, no matter what racial background. Let's use the Bank of America North Hollywood Shootout, Emil Matasarenu was a Romanian citizen. This was one of the worst robberies in history, these men wore body armor, there was lots of victims including police as victims. To top it off, Matasarenu's family was able to file a million dollar plus lawsuit - the other guy with him was Larry Phillips.
The NY Times Square incident last week, well some of the guys they just arrested was here illegally.:S
Here I am just showing that it shouldn't just target one group. 😮
I've really tried not to post on this thread because it seems that while you all think you know what's going on in the border towns or anywhere near them, none of you seem to have any idea what its really like. Yes kids who live in Mexican border towns would cross the bridge in texas and go to schools on the american side. Why? The schools are better and their mother had them on the US side so they are citizens. All they need is a cousin, aunt, uncle, etc with an address near the school. Or they pay for private schools on the US side, because they are better. This has been going on for many decades, not years. The border towns in texas have little resemblance to American towns. It's not like California where its a melting pot of so many cultures. Where the different cultures all add something.
Phoenix has become the number one city in the US for kidnappings. Doesn't that scare anyone in their right mind. I mean when I think of Phoenix I think of old people and golf. And its not the Egyptians or the Koreans who have given in this honor. I don't think being politically correct in going to solve the problem that is at the end of your nose. They exactly what the problem is and they have created a very fair law to fix the problem. They are not going to pull anyone over or question anyone unless they have committed a crime. And heck fake papers are extremely easy to get, so unless they are dumb illegals they should get off anyways. Ask someone who was born legally in a border town how hard it is to get a seal copy of their birth certificate. It makes going to the DMV here look like a spa treatment. Why? Because they steal identities there first.
Hey, I'm not old and I hate golf! 😀
Welcome to the conversation. LOL, it is hard to not comment on this, isn't that the truth.
California is a border town, it is where some So. Californians enter into Tijuana. On freeways there are signs to watch out for people running across to get into the U.S. when you start getting close to the border in San Diego counties. This is also the way that our military people from Camp Pendleton cross into Mexico. The border of California is also one of the most dangerous like Texas, (RIP) we've had border patrol officers executed at this border, not one or two, or three, but many. We've had numerous high-speed police chases go to or coming from the border, Americans living in Baja California, San Diego, have been kidnapped or victims of drive-by shootings, elaborate under ground tunnels from Mexico to San Diego, and some found in San Diego was linked to either a home or business. I don't want to say exactly where, but, in Los Angeles Downtown, people have been buying identifications, and also, there have been employees working for DMV that issued I.D's for money, or sometimes the news identify them as a ring of people doing this.
There was a big story in Riverside California, a van full of illegal immigrants was in a car chase with Riverside Police or Sheriff's Dept, the news showed the officers beating the immigrants - well, guess what, they had won a big lawsuit behind this. Now with Arizona, what about the rancher that was sued by illegal immigrants and the courts gave the immigrants his ranch.
So, it's not that I'm trying to be politically correct, I'm just saying that either way it goes, we suffer the effects, or pay for it. We are paying for businesses that want their labor.
I am laughing that you say California is a melting pot and have something to offer - true on one hand, and not true on the other. California have so many street gangs, from every racial group you can think of, as a few, we have blacks, Filipinos, Samoans, Chinese, whites, Armenians, Russians, Vietnamese, and the list goes on. So there's different types and all types of crimes we have, I mean Hollywood is known for it drug scene, right? But back to this law, I just think it is unfair to target one group. As far as stealing identities, I would say that Puerto Rico experienced this in such a way that they have to issue all new birth certificates to almost everyone born there.
Oh yeah, Jennn
There are people that keep complaining about the government, I am complaining about the private businesses.
To my knowledge it is the private companies with private contracts that have been hiring illegal immigrant workers to work in sensitive areas like airports, government buildings and the like without being properly screened. So I go back to saying it's the businesses that are causing our problems. Most of them are getting no-bid contracts. And for them to put Americans workers through interviews, drug tests, physical exams, background checks and to hire immigrants that you described (false identification) I think is wrong.
I just found out a couple of days ago, the human rights groups are now calling the illegal immigrants Economic Refugees - well, these refugees, or any refugees get automatic one year green card, then they go on to apply for permanent resident
Google economic refugees or asslyees and you'll see that this is what happens. This is where they will get their amnesty. With this they will not have to work, and they can legally get whatever social benefits they want.
anjell you misunderstood me. I have lived in Ca as well as texas. The ca bordertowns (on the US side) are completely tame and safe. Now Tijuana and the Mexican border towns are a totally different story. But on the US side CA is very very tame. I know all the areas you speak of and have lived in a few and they are nothing like TX or Arizona for that matter border towns. There's few border patrol agents that even want to do CA unless they are from there, because the work is so boring compared to every where else.
Don't get me wrong CA has plenty horrible crime, just not much Mexican border related crime other then massive amounts of drugs going through there. I could understand why in CA you are concerned about things like Egyptians and Koreans and other races you mention in your previous posts as being illegal in CA but on the rest of the southwest border that is just not much of a concern at all.
Sorry if there was miscommunication. Actually I don't have a problem with Egyptians and Koreans. I was just pointing out that we shouldn't just target one group of people. The point about the Egyptians and Moroccans, is this would look like they are taking advantage of the system. Now, I agree that a white person from Africa could say they are African-American, this I can see as legitimate for the purposes of using Affirmative Action programs.
Now, here is something that must be looked at, this article "Mexican Drug Cartels Infiltrating U.S. Border, Immigration and Transportation Agencies" http://www.kpbs.org/2010/mar/11/mexican-drug-cartels-infiltrating-us-border-immigr/ this has a picture of the border, audio, and transcripts of testimony from senate hearing - TJ Bonner says that the recent hires of border patrol agents, 60% were unsuitable for employment, and they were hired without background checks, some were and weren't given polygraph tests, the ones that were, most failed.
There are also articles that talk about the cartels threatening to take over Mexico and the U.S., so the problem again is if the U.S. will invest in their own people this wouldn't be a problem. There are countries that will not allow foreign workers to have certain jobs, like running for elected officials positions, police, but, they may be able to come in to consult but not to work in the actual job.
Yes I understood Anjell but Arizona is not like California, it is mostly white and mexican. So to say your not focusing on illegal mexicans would be a yeah right kind of thing and look and smell like bs. Few things I hate more then political correctness.
Well I can tell you that your transcript are also full on you know what. Border patrol agents are never given a polygraph test for a hire. They submit and application, then if that is accepted they take a written test. If they pass that they have a interview with at least 3 senior agents. If they pass that then OPM (office of personal management) does a 10 YEAR background check. Which is very extremely detailed. And they go and review everything and interview people from every job you've ever had, personal friends, family etc, they check your fiances, your credit score, everything... If they find anything fishy they will not hire you. So if you pass all that then you go to the academy. 5 1/2 months of Spanish, law, shooting, physical fitness etc, if you pass all that, then you get sent to your duty station. But you are still a trainee and can be fired for any reason till you pass the your final tests at 10 months, and the head agent and the officers responsible for your training all agree.
No polygraph test though. Also every 5 years a federal agent has to repeat this process (background check). You might be thinking about FBI or CIA, I've heard they have to do one, but am not sure.
Not sure what you're saying in your last paragraph.
Okay Jenn please accept my apology. But I would say it is probably ignorance on my part, more than what you say about me. I say probably ignorance because I don't work for border patrol, and know nothing of the hiring practices. I also would have to say that TJ Bonner is president of the border patrol's union, and he's the guy that the news put on to address problems within the agency. Also, it is the union officials or their lawyers who speak of problems within the agency on their behalf, just like the agency's lawyer or public information officer speaks on behalf of the agency. So, I apologize if this is what I am presented with on the news like cable, and local, at the same time it's not my fault if this is what I have to go on. I do know this is the guy that the news put out there to explain why the agency was having problems filling positions there, and it was said at one time that no one wanted to work there.
What I was saying about other countries, okay, like in some countries people can get residency or citizenship but they can't run for public office. I will, for the sake of example use the Cayman Islands, people who get residency or citizenship cannot run for positions like city council. I've heard that people getting residency or citizenship cannot open a business unless a natural born citizen sponsor them.
When I say invest in our own citizens, we have very good I.T. (information techonology) people here in the states, but they are losing positions for cheaper labor. when I was going to college, all of the guys in the math labs and in accounting classes were from India - don't get me wrong, they are good instructors, but since this country is looking like we are falling apart, if and when these high-skilled workers return to their own countries, we may not have any of our own skilled workers which will cause us to continue to bring in people that is willing to come in.
I think at this point I will follow A. Davis' lead and bow out on this, because I was hoping for a open and general conversation on this without it getting heated. Good luck to you.
On May 16, 2010 I mentioned economic refugees.
It's true, this article on 5-17-2010, "Trespassing law may turn more illegal immigrants into citizens" http://azcapitoltimes.com/blog/2010/05/17/trespassing-law-may-turn-more-illegal-immigrants-into-citizens/ The staff writer at Arizona Capitol Times says that yes, they can get one year work visa and go on to apply for legal status/permanent residency.
Then they will be welcomed by me.
~ Moving to Mexico! ~
Dear President Obama:
I'm planning to move my family and extended family into Mexico for my health, and I would like to ask you to assist me.
We're planning to simply walk across the border from the U.S. into Mexico , and we'll need your help to make a few arrangements.
We plan to skip all the legal stuff like visas, passports, immigration quotas and laws.
I'm sure they handle those things the same way you do here. So, would you mind telling your buddy, President Calderon, that I'm on my way over?
Please let him know that I will be expecting the following:
1. Free medical care for my entire family.
2. English-speaking government bureaucrats for all services I might need, whether I use them or not.
3. Please print all Mexican government forms in English.
4. I want my grand kids to be taught Spanish by English-speaking (bi-lingual) teachers.
5. Tell their schools they need to include classes on American culture and history.
6. I want my grand kids to see the American flag on one of the flag poles at their school.
7. Please plan to feed my grand kids at school for both breakfast and lunch.
8. I will need a local Mexican driver's license so I can get easy access to government services.
9. I do plan to get a car and drive in Mexico , but, I don't plan to purchase car insurance, and I probably won't make any special effort to learn local traffic laws.
10. In case one of the Mexican police officers does not get the memo from their president to leave me alone, please be sure that every patrol car has at least one English-speaking officer.
11. I plan to fly the U.S. flag from my house top, put U S. flag decals on my car, and have a gigantic celebration on July 4th. I do not want any complaints or negative comments from the locals.
12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes, or have any labor or tax laws enforced on any business I may start.
13. Please have the president tell all the Mexican people to be extremely nice and never say critical things about me or my family, or about the strain we might place on their economy.
14. I want to receive free food stamps.
15. Naturally, I'll expect free rent subsidies.
16. I'll need Income tax credits so although I don't pay Mexican Taxes, I'll receive money from the government.
17. Please arrange it so that the Mexican Gov't pays $4,500 to help me buy a new car.
18.. Oh yes, I almost forgot, please enroll me free into the Mexican Social Security program so that I'll get a monthly income in retirement.
I know this is an easy request because you already do all these things for all his people who walk over to the U.S. from Mexico . I am sure that President Calderon won't mind returning the favor if you ask him nicely.
Thank you so much for your kind help.
Tippi....Wow... !!! You better hurry up cause when other people find out the deal your getting ...I bet 30-40 million Americans will follow you.....Nice post (tu)
this one's posted everywhere, one snopes.com forum even attributes it to bill cosby and the entry is dated september 2009... http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=51210
i am still trying to figure out why it's addressed to the president of the united states since he the one is pressing for support and debate for the immigration reform bill. so sling mud at the one who is trying to do what you want. makes sense to someone who is so blinded by partisan politics i guess.
legitimate concerns expressed "cutely", but always a dig at the president as though he is responsible for how immigration has deteriorated over the past decade while huge corporations lured illegals over for their construction projects and to work in their department stores.
Too funny. Here's an article that states Jan Brewer may have had a conflict of interest with Corrections Corp of America (CCA), too bad, these contracts are now CANCELED. These private prisons runs the ICE detention centers in Arizona. Here's the article "Jan Brewer's CCA Money and Her Possible Conflict of Interest Over SB1070" http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/bastard/2010/05/jan_brewers_conflict_of_intere.php This article also says that Brewer received seed money, and she stood to gain $707,447 in public funds for her primary campaign, and $1,061,171 of public (taxpayer) funds for the General Election. This is about "Clean Election."
Should I mention, it was the officials from Arizona, yes, Arizona, that was involved in Guantanamo Bay and in Iraq and/or /Afghanistan prisons. They did the setup and everything else.*-)
This is why I mentioned the money that was quoted in the article. I don't see why people that are against illegal immigration don't realize they are getting duped, like a big ponzi scheme. This is a federal law, not a state law. All of the groups against illegal immigration are listed as non-profits, or foundations that are asking for donations. They are promising to stop illegal immigration, yet, the people are asked to write and call the representatives and show up for protests. Do you realize how much money is being splashed around? Everyone is getting paid, the lawyers that draft the legislation, the non-profits, the consultants, and the attorneys fighting for the rights of the immigrants. All you have to do is look at the salaries of these groups, and for a sad reminder, remember the minute-men group in Arizona that said if the government won't build a fence, they would, well what happened to the money? 😮
I was reading another article, because apparently, Costa Mesa California just passed an anti-illegal immigrant resolution called "Rule of Law City." A guy posted a comment that he asked some of his friends that always complain about illegal immigrants ruining the country to hire him or one of his unemployed friends, and he said the friend told him he couldn't compete with competitors nor could he afford to hire a white guy for they salary they'd want. Not to mention, Arizona's sheriff have been coming to Costa Mesa to do fundraising for a sheriff candidate in Orange County.:S
This leads me to the conclusion that this is a big rip-off. There are so many groups out there against illegal immigration, and some of these groups have been out there for years. But since this is an issue that is done by the Kyoto Protocol, there's nothing no one can do about this, it is global, and can only be undone on a global level.*-) This is about votes and money, what else could it be?
this one's posted everywhere, one snopes.com forum even attributes it to bill cosby and the entry is dated september 2009... http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=51210
Where's your sense of humor? You seem to have lost it if it's not coming from Obama.
Yesterday Obama met with Calderon have you not read Calderon's opinion on the Arizona law?
LOL yes I totally agree.
Worth your time!
Here is a youtube link to a Tucson, AZ special City Council meeting called by a Councilwoman who is asking for legal advice on how the City can sue the State of Arizona for passing the illegal immigrant bill.
Listen to the answer from the floor by a woman who is a naturalized U.S.
Citizen from Mexico......This is good.
An excellent video! Thanks for sharing.