Violent crime  

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redeyesadie
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January 23, 2011 10:05 pm  

I have started this new thread rather than continuing this exchange in the thread inquiring about what happened to Tim Metzger. It seemed appropriate due to the broadness of the issues of violent crime and what to do about it. I hope Poorthang and others wishing to express their views will do so here.

Poorthang advocates "street justice" which he initially described like this: "The thugs running loose and victimizing innocent people with no care for what carnage they leave behind deserve some old fashion street justice.Yea I said it.!!! Hang them on the town square and let their" BROTHERS" watch them dangle and pee on themselves."

I am critical of Poorthang because his approach is racist, advocating private citizens do more than just defending themselves specifically from black criminals, but stringing them up in a conspicuous manner to send a message. There is no mention of courts or due process of any kind between street justice and "Hang them on the town square..." Which is a lynching.

That said, I too am all for self defense. If I can get the upper hand on someone that intends to do harm to me or my family I'll take it. I don't totally disagree with Poorthang's redefinition of street justice in his rebuttal: "Street justice happe[n]s when you see someone do the act and take immediate action to whoop his ass or start shootin back." But again must reject his insertion of race and negative stereotyping into the issue:

Why are we so afraid to profile ...because the milk toast (i like my spelling better)mama ATTITUDE allows for coddling those who seek to game the system by using their poor pathetic upbringing;lazy ass lifestyle, and overall contempt for the laws that keeps us civil.We feel up and make disrobe 99.9 % of the population at the airports when we have the statistics to prove that the likely hood of a terrorist is the guy who just shaved all his hair off his body,paid cash, and oooohhh no I'M gonna say it ..............from the Middle East....!!!!!! ( I'M so proud I didn't say Towelhead)wink Man I love being coy...

Violent crime is violent crime no matter the color of the perpetrator or the victim. Pointing fingers at one group or another as a whole, profiling, is not the answer. In OUR society (which includes Poorthang) we are supposed to be taken as individuals, not innocent or guilty based on our appearance, or religion. There are good and bad in every group, race, religion, or however else you'd like to divide us. The bottom line is that people of all kinds have done, and are capable of doing the public harm which is why profiling doesn't work.

I have watched as my home town, NYC, has gone from being a pretty dangerous place to the safest big city in the country. Much of the change occurred once the politicians and judges where moved by the voters to provide better policing and enforcement of the laws. There were periodic assertions of profiling that made the news often because of tragic endings, think Amadou Diallo, However, it was sometimes the bad guys playing the race card because they got caught. It is also worth noting that programs were started to provide those most at risk of becoming violent criminals constructive alternatives in ways to spend their time. In short, it took ordinary citizens not taking up arms, but going to the voting booth and taking an interest in their community's future through non-violent activism.

FYI:
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Milk toast
Not to be confused with Milquetoast.

Milk toast is a breakfast food consisting of toasted bread in warm milk, typically with sugar and butter.

Milk toast's soft blandness served as inspiration for the name of the timid and ineffectual comic strip character Caspar Milquetoast, drawn by Harold Webster from 1924 to 1952.[7] The term "milquetoast" has since adopted a new meaning: a timid, shrinking, apologetic person.


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A Davis
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January 24, 2011 4:51 am  

good idea moving this ramble over to here. hope it does not go much further, but i want to repeat, that evil has no profile.

best to you,
anita.
"do the best that you can in the place where you are, and be kind."
--- scott nearing


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poorthang
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January 24, 2011 1:06 pm  

Well I was wondering how long it would take for someone to use the R word.I guess when I said" if a white man would have done the same thing."..... to hang their white ass too...... I'm Racist against white folk.also..Huh ?. Nothing I said is not true .The problem that THIS white ,teeth missing,back wood hillbilly... ( nice job of profiling btw)...is we have allowed a climate perfect for bad guys to expect little or no punishment for crimes they commit.Now what affect does that have?? They walk right in to the Greek joint kill a good guy,walk right up to Off The Wall and rob them, No Fear of anyone else there having the means or gonads to give a little street justice. Let's all write a letter ?? Come on. So the milk toast mama ATTITUDE just descibes the mentality that allows this crap to continue year after year.I can't solve the social problems that create these guys ...sooo.. please don't ask me to shut up or threaten me because of what my eyes see . I'm street smart ,heard all the bs and know the game the brothers(white and black) wanna play.


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redeyesadie
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January 24, 2011 3:07 pm  

Poorthang: You really are coming off as a poor thing. What I objected to in your posts was the insertion of race and negative stereotyping. It was divisive and hurtful. Also,I did not call you a racist, but said your "approach is racist". There is a difference. I do not know you, and it would take repeated racist statements by you before I could possibly draw that conclusion.

True there are black people with the attributes and attitudes you describe, but there are people of all colors like that too. And as to hanging the white perpetrators, you did not preface that with the negative description of the type of white person you imagine committing the crime. Do you see the difference? You might have just advocated street justice and left it at that.

I can't solve the social problems that create these guys ...sooo.. please don't ask me to shut up or threaten me because of what my eyes see .

I did not threaten you or profile you in any way, so I'm not sure where that is coming from. But I do have a question for you. To what end do you feel it necessary to express your views on this issue in the way you do? Are you just a sqeaky wheel? A whiner? With all your bravado about "street justice" and taking on the thugs I half expected you to announce: "There's a new sheriff in town... and his name is Poorthang!"

BTW: Letter writing can be effective, as can supporting/electing politicians and judges that share your desire to make things better.

Peace


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poorthang
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January 24, 2011 6:43 pm  

How's that letter writing campaign workin for ya now or in the past? The "elected officials" will not and have not done jack to put a stop to the crime on these islands.Half the time Tyrone and his cohorts get a slap,continuance or police mess it up so bad they couldn't or wouldn't prosecute these punks.So yea I have no faith in any meaningful change anytime soon. The TRUTH cuts like a knife and hurts because if you were truly honest with yourself you'd have to admit the society that created this mess ,( no dad in the house ,gaming the system, you know what I'm talking about) has not stood up to correct themselves or their behavior. Some one said on the other thread bank robbers go where the money is ...the bank... wanna rob somebody on the islands .... thugs profile everyday


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Irijah
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January 24, 2011 9:00 pm  

poor thing...
do you live in the VI?
if so, with your attitude and mindset, you will not make it there for very long.
remember...
you are a visitor in a land that was forged by the blood, sweat, tears and lives of the people you speak so disparagingly of...
i wanna see you mouth off like you have here in front of flesh and blood people and I WISH I COULD BE THERE to see their reaction to your hatred...
ever been to the rain forest?
(i do not believe in violence unless there is no other choice, i will help to defend my family and friends if necessary, and i do not approve of the random acts of violence made on people in the USVI or anywhere else in the world...i just get riled by rants of blatant prejudice and hatred...i mean no disraspect to anyone else on this board)
bless
Sis Irijah


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stcmike
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January 24, 2011 11:58 pm  

It is painfully obvious that the citizens don't really care about the situation. Sure you hear allot of complaining on local talk stations and various websites however they constantly vote the same old do nothings into political office who waste time on and money on such stupid things as constitution conventions. Remember 2 years ago all the coversation was on the necessity of having a VI constitution, now you never hear about it. Crime always causes allot of conversation within a few days of a high profile incident and then all the talk goes away. What may be needed here is a grass roots political movement.


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poorthang
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January 25, 2011 12:20 am  

The beauty of being anonymous on a small island is I can say what I want in this type of forum without takin a ride to the Rain Forest Regardless of what you think I am.... you don't know me..... I love these islands and the majority of the people on them and have for a long time.I hate to see it so dysfunctional. I am pointing out what most people realize as a breakdown in a culture.... Here and the US....If you think you or your ancestors have been good stewards of these islands then honey you are sadly mistaken.ie pollution being constantly dumped into the once beautiful reefs,the trash on the beaches,the unpainted torn up buildings that remain unmaintained year after year,.the loss of developers, the pace of work that finally gets past the graft and corruption that prevails,.brush growing so high on the roads ,potholes.........Your politician buddies keep you right where they want you,....waitin in line for that check or gubment jobs and handouts .Instead of you all raisin hell that you don't like whats going on..... you must be content with the status quo.Am I takin jabs ....you bet I am ...not because I'm an insensitive racist white boy but perhaps to make you think . The continentals don't have the power that the majority (yes the black people) have .So use your power to make changes that will help the islands. prosperity is not a bad word.


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Ms Information
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January 25, 2011 3:44 am  

To Poorthang
You seem to see yourself as some kind of voice in the wilderness. You are not alone with your concerns. The basic problems that you talk about here are all true, however you lose support from most us because you use derogatory terms to describe them. You also are prone to hyperbole and threats regarding solutions.

Yes, I agree that we have many young thugs living here. Yes, I agree that the government and the police do not do enough to try to control them. Yes, I agree that the welfare state mentality of many of those living in the projects contributes to this problem.

We all need to try help to find solutions. Name calling and uncontrolled anger are not the answer.


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A Davis
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January 25, 2011 3:15 pm  

in my mind, poorthang has unintentionally become a troll as far as this thread is concerned.

best to you,
anita.
"do the best that you can in the place where you are, and be kind."
--- scott nearing


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poorthang
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January 26, 2011 12:25 am  

I reserve my compassion and kindheartedness for those who deserve it.,and the thug element isn't among them.Does it upset me that the majority population is being used and duped into believing they have no power or say in their island homes future?.It breaks my heart to see a woman struggle raisin kids without a real man helpin her out.Instead she struggles on ....trying to do the best she can... and ends up repeating bad choices.I feel sorry for the men who want to do the right thing and can't find it in themselves to avoid the street lifestyle. You see I've employed convicted felons, black and white, cause I know they don't have many if anyone to help them turn their lives around. I hear the stories of their lives and I know they have missed the love of a father, and they're angry about it. So mama"s don't have more babies!!!! I can't as a white man seek their justice ...it has to come from their own community..So if I sound pissed that this crap has boiled over into blatant lawlessness... You're right.....I'm calling you good folk out to get your brothers and sisters talkin to the" power " that they'd better help you....so you can help yourselves. A troll ?A racist? Look at the message and not the messenger.... see .... you don't know me


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dntw8up
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January 26, 2011 1:22 am  

I can't get through poorthang and redeyesadie's debate, because they present their perspectives unintelligibly. That said, it's not racist to acknowledge that in a place overwhelming populated by folks of a particular race, that almost all of the violent crime is perpetrated by people of that race. Just as it's true that the vast majority of welfare recipients in the states are white single mothers, the vast majority of thugs in the VI are black males. Race is a common social identifier, like gender , and recognizing that more women than men do x, or more whites than blacks do y, is not sexist or racist. It is only when that information is used to discriminate based on gender or race that racism or sexism rears its ugly head. Observations of fact can't be racist or sexist.

I choose to live in the Caribbean in planning for my infinite future, to try to grow accustomed to the heat...


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terry
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January 26, 2011 10:27 am  

I can't get through poorthang and redeyesadie's debate, because they present their perspectives unintelligibly. That said, it's not racist to acknowledge that in a place overwhelming populated by folks of a particular race, that almost all of the violent crime is perpetrated by people of that race. Just as it's true that the vast majority of welfare recipients in the states are white single mothers, the vast majority of thugs in the VI are black males. Race is a common social identifier, like gender , and recognizing that more women than men do x, or more whites than blacks do y, is not sexist or racist. It is only when that information is used to discriminate based on gender or race that racism or sexism rears its ugly head. Observations of fact can't be racist or sexist.

WELL SAID(tu)


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swans
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January 26, 2011 11:52 am  

G'day:
What is a troll? Can someone explain?

Swan


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Bombi
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January 26, 2011 12:00 pm  

Part of the apathy is the very low number of registered voters. he unregistered all have their excuses, jury duty, past trouble, whatever.

Perhaps tying voter registration with getting a drivers licence or being eligible for public assistance or something could help the electorate have the intended power to have more control of their destiny. A basic course in civics taught in the schools would help them at least understand the process as it is intended to work.

Also keeping them in school to graduation would be huge. On my drive to work I pass through Christiansted town and see all the young (and older) professional working women going to their jobs. Then I drive through Watergut/Richmond and see young men just hanging out doing whatever they do. Is that cultural? The system is broken.

optimist with low expectations on STX


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terry
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January 26, 2011 1:13 pm  

In complete opposition to your view.
I feel that if you are on welfare of any kind you should not be allowed to vote.
Want to vote, it's simple - get off your butt and go to work!
Don't care if you are male, female, white, black, yellow, red, whatever.
Some exceptions could be made for a FEW who are incapable of work but not due to drugs, booze, or any other self-induced problem
When the number of people with their hands put outnumber the workers supporting them society fails.


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chefnoah
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January 26, 2011 2:44 pm  

Drug test for welfare would be a good kick start.
If someone gets cut out of their welfare check because they have dirty pee, would they re-consider their lifestyle?

Unfortunately, coke meth and crack fly through your system in about 3 days, while marijuana sticks in your system a bit longer. So, the hopped up and highly motivated thieves could still break into your car while making their welfare check. But, the stoner on the couch playing video games may need to cut out the ganja if he wants his government cheese.

This isn't isolated to these islands alone. My younger step-brother and his ever growing family regard a newborn as a pay raise. It frustrates the hell out of me.

Noah
Signature user since right now


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Hiya!
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January 26, 2011 2:52 pm  

If you have more children you should loose welfare.
If you fail a RANDOM drug test you loose welfare.
Welfare should only be for two to three years max, that gives anyone who is trying hard, time to get off of it.

I don't have any trouble with welfare, bad things happen to good people all the time. But I do think it should absolutely be limited.


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noOne
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January 26, 2011 7:38 pm  

Drug test for welfare would be a good kick start.

Not gonna happen. I believe they enacted a law like this in Wisconsin (or some other state) and it was struck down by that state's Supreme Court as being unconstitutional - fourth amendment, unreasonable search and all.


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divinggirl
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January 26, 2011 11:22 pm  

Drug test for welfare would be a good kick start.

Not gonna happen. I believe they enacted a law like this in Wisconsin (or some other state) and it was struck down by that state's Supreme Court as being unconstitutional - fourth amendment, unreasonable search and all.

There is currently a law pending in Kentucky for this very issue.


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terry
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January 26, 2011 11:29 pm  

I hope they can do it.

Several years ago on 60 Minutes there was a story about a small town somewhere in the mid-west(?) that in order to receive welfare you had to work in some way even if it was just picking up trash on the side of the streets.
Everyone liked it even the people receiving help as it gave them a sense of worth.
WELLLL some lawyer got a hold of this and took the town to court. It was found to be discrimination because if they lived in a different town they could get their money and sit on their butts.
So sad:X


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A Davis
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January 27, 2011 3:18 am  

I can't get through poorthang and redeyesadie's debate, because they present their perspectives unintelligibly. That said, it's not racist to acknowledge that in a place overwhelming populated by folks of a particular race, that almost all of the violent crime is perpetrated by people of that race. Just as it's true that the vast majority of welfare recipients in the states are white single mothers, the vast majority of thugs in the VI are black males. Race is a common social identifier, like gender , and recognizing that more women than men do x, or more whites than blacks do y, is not sexist or racist. It is only when that information is used to discriminate based on gender or race that racism or sexism rears its ugly head. Observations of fact can't be racist or sexist.

indeed it's not what you say but how you say it. i sensed righteous contempt.

best to you,
anita.
"do the best that you can in the place where you are, and be kind."
--- scott nearing


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A Davis
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January 27, 2011 3:20 am  

G'day:
What is a troll? Can someone explain?

Swan

here u go swan:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29:

In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into a desired emotional response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[2] In addition to the offending poster, the noun troll can also refer to the provocative message itself, as in "that was an excellent troll you posted". While the term troll and its associated action trolling are primarily associated with Internet discourse, media attention in recent years has made such labels highly subjective, with trolling being used to describe intentionally provocative actions outside of an online context. For example, recent media accounts have used the term troll to describe "a person who defaces internet tribute sites with the aim of causing grief to families."[3][4]

best to you,
anita.
"do the best that you can in the place where you are, and be kind."
--- scott nearing


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DUN
 DUN
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January 27, 2011 3:40 am  

In complete opposition to your view.
I feel that if you are on welfare of any kind you should not be allowed to vote.
Want to vote, it's simple - get off your butt and go to work!
Don't care if you are male, female, white, black, yellow, red, whatever.
Some exceptions could be made for a FEW who are incapable of work but not due to drugs, booze, or any other self-induced problem
When the number of people with their hands put outnumber the workers supporting them society fails.

Right on!(tu)
Can't respond to the Anita/Poorthang right now, I'm tired & don't have the head for it.
I'll just stand by my earlier statement that both views have some merit.


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poorthang
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January 27, 2011 5:04 am  

anita and dntw8up.....I do speak Ebonics if that will help you;) However I think you understand what I 'm saying... but you can't come to grips with someone actually peeling back a very uncomfortable look at why are the islands... under Black rulers....with a majority black voters have these islands so messed up.?Can you please explain that to me ? or should I say... break it down for me........I haven't heard any explanation so far from y'all .You're doing the classic bob and weave ...don't find a fix... attack the one shootin his mouth off......unfortunately you can't use the classic cop out that the white man has been holdin us down


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