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Tiberius
(@Tiberius)
Advanced Member

The next time you see that plane, it will be flying into a building. Just my opinion.

Another theory of mine is that terrorists hijacked the plane and killed everyone on board to use later as a weapon of mass destruction. They could easily disguise the plane and load a 50 megaton or larger nuke into it. The they wouldn't even have to get over New York to detonate it. An aerial burst at an altitude of 1500 feet 250 miles from Manhattan would wipe out New York, New Jersey, and parts of Connecticut and Pennsylvania. Wooden frame buildings would catch fire ar far away as Washington and Boston. The loss of life would be enormous.

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Posted : March 30, 2014 1:28 pm
Tiberius
(@Tiberius)
Advanced Member

If it blew up at 30,000 feet it will be almost impossible to find. A huge spread out debris field in one of the greatest areas of ocean gyres, which has now had over a week to dissipate - it's gone.

The Malaysian airline officials admit the plane was carrying a load of lithium ion batteries. It's just one possible source of explosions.

Another could be terrorism - where they wanted someone silenced. I don't think we will ever know, or not know for a long time.

And as far as it turning - I read a very solid account from a 777 pilot who said the turning could be consistent with the autopilot disengaging after a midair disaster of some sort, and the plane was not necessarily under human control. But because his opinion statement was thoughtful and rational it hasn't been promoted much.

Not necessarily true. The Korean Airlines plane shot down by the Russians 30 years ago was found. It was at cruising altitude and if I'm not mistaken broke up into a few large pieces then plunged into the Sea of Japan.

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Posted : March 30, 2014 1:36 pm
JulieKay
(@JulieKay)
Trusted Member

An airliner approaching the United States from any corridor without a recognized flight path would be met with a very rapid response, and the chances of them fulfilling that mission would be slim. This is the post 9/11 world.

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Posted : March 30, 2014 1:38 pm
JulieKay
(@JulieKay)
Trusted Member

If it blew up at 30,000 feet it will be almost impossible to find. A huge spread out debris field in one of the greatest areas of ocean gyres, which has now had over a week to dissipate - it's gone.

The Malaysian airline officials admit the plane was carrying a load of lithium ion batteries. It's just one possible source of explosions.

Another could be terrorism - where they wanted someone silenced. I don't think we will ever know, or not know for a long time.

And as far as it turning - I read a very solid account from a 777 pilot who said the turning could be consistent with the autopilot disengaging after a midair disaster of some sort, and the plane was not necessarily under human control. But because his opinion statement was thoughtful and rational it hasn't been promoted much.

Not necessarily true. The Korean Airlines plane shot down by the Russians 30 years ago was found. It was at cruising altitude and if I'm not mistaken broke up into a few large pieces then plunged into the Sea of Japan.

All depends upon how it broke up, hence my usage of the word "almost."

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Posted : March 30, 2014 1:39 pm
Tiberius
(@Tiberius)
Advanced Member

An airliner approaching the United States from any corridor without a recognized flight path would be met with a very rapid response, and the chances of them fulfilling that mission would be slim. This is the post 9/11 world.

Really? All they would have to do is clone the transponder from another flight. Terrorists on that flight could crash it into the Atlantic half way to the U.S. while the clone plane makes it's way to New York. Do you really think it can't be accomplished? They are very determined.

Besides. What if they just fly under the radar? I'm not a terrorist and I just came up with 2 possibilities.

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Posted : March 30, 2014 1:47 pm
JulieKay
(@JulieKay)
Trusted Member

Do you not think our military and intelligence communities do not already have these possibilities under consideration, and have had them under consideration since 9/11? This is not a new possible scenario.

I lived in Manhattan for five years immediately after 9/11. I can tell you that these theories were discussed back then, ad nauseum. And you can bet they are being discussed particularly again now, because your theory is being bandied about the internet right now by many people. Which I don't necessarily see as a bad thing, communal thinking leads to idea creation and preparation. And there are many, many people who make a LOT of money by sending around conspiracy theories and terrorism theories and getting people scared and worked up (Alex Jonaes and Infowars being one). In my world I get it, I understand why it's done, but I don't ever buy anything at face value.

I'm not going to get into a "tit for tat" discussion of what could be done with the missing plane and what measures may be in place to address those possibilities. All I'm going to say is the world isn't a vacuum (especially with the internet), and no one has a "secret"about such things - I'm actually now remembering my conversation I had last night with a friend in the NSA.

Concern is good, preparedness is better, and I'm heading out to eat a bucket of crabs. I hope soon there is evidence found that can put to rest some of these theories.

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Posted : March 30, 2014 2:20 pm
Tiberius
(@Tiberius)
Advanced Member

JulieKay I'm not arguing with you. I really hope I'm wrong. I'm sure all possible scenarios are being discussed. But are they really as prepared as they claim? You already know there are 4k flights around the U.S. at any given time. This is one reason they chose their method of attack on 9-11. They hid among the other flights during peak hour that day. And they turned off the transponders so they couldn't be tracked. How could they single out one aircraft should my scenario play out?

Coincidentally Obama expressed his concerns last week at the G7 about a nuke going off in New York City. Coincidence?

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Posted : March 30, 2014 3:13 pm
CruzanIron
(@cruzaniron)
Expert

You could steal a fully fueled cargo plane from just about any airport and use it as your weapon.
Why complicate things if all you need is an aircraft ?

The next time you see that plane, it will be flying into a building. Just my opinion.

Another theory of mine is that terrorists hijacked the plane and killed everyone on board to use later as a weapon of mass destruction. They could easily disguise the plane and load a 50 megaton or larger nuke into it. The they wouldn't even have to get over New York to detonate it. An aerial burst at an altitude of 1500 feet 250 miles from Manhattan would wipe out New York, New Jersey, and parts of Connecticut and Pennsylvania. Wooden frame buildings would catch fire ar far away as Washington and Boston. The loss of life would be enormous.

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Posted : March 30, 2014 4:27 pm
JulieKay
(@JulieKay)
Trusted Member

You could steal a fully fueled cargo plane from just about any airport and use it as your weapon.
Why complicate things if all you need is an aircraft ?

The next time you see that plane, it will be flying into a building. Just my opinion.

Another theory of mine is that terrorists hijacked the plane and killed everyone on board to use later as a weapon of mass destruction. They could easily disguise the plane and load a 50 megaton or larger nuke into it. The they wouldn't even have to get over New York to detonate it. An aerial burst at an altitude of 1500 feet 250 miles from Manhattan would wipe out New York, New Jersey, and parts of Connecticut and Pennsylvania. Wooden frame buildings would catch fire ar far away as Washington and Boston. The loss of life would be enormous.

Yep, I say the exact same things. Cargo planes or private aircraft (even jets) are easier to steal, or even just buy, since some terrorists can be well-funded.

The only reason to steal a commercial passenger jet and attract international attention is for the shock value.

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Posted : March 30, 2014 4:30 pm
CruzanIron
(@cruzaniron)
Expert

Tiberius, there isn't any nuke that I know of that has a 250 mile range. Here is the info from a 100 megaton bomb:

These figures are for the proposed 100megaton Tsar Bomba, the biggest bomb ever designed.

Fireball radius: 3.03 km / 1.88 mi
Maximum size of the nuclear fireball; relevance to lived effects depends on height of detonation.

Radiation radius: 7.49 km / 4.65 mi
500 rem radiation dose; between 50% and 90% mortality from acute effects alone; dying takes between several hours and several weeks.

Air blast radius: 12.51 km / 7.77 mi
20 psi overpressure; heavily built concrete buildings are severely damaged or demolished; fatalities approach 100%.

Air blast radius: 33.01 km / 20.51 mi
4.6 psi overpressure; most buildings collapse; injuries universal, fatalities widespread.

Thermal radiation radius: 77.06 km / 47.88 mi
Third-degree burns to all exposed skin; starts fires in flammable materials, contributes to firestorm if large enough.

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Posted : March 30, 2014 4:33 pm
JulieKay
(@JulieKay)
Trusted Member

I was wondering about that information too, it didn't seem accurate to me. Thanks CruzanIron.

Coincidentally Obama expressed his concerns last week at the G7 about a nuke going off in New York City. Coincidence?

I believe this concern is brought up at least annually, if not more often, every year. When I lived in NYC it was brought up constantly. I think preparedness is the point.

My father was in intelligence for many years. After 9/11, I asked him, how could something like that happen? What he told me was this - that all the intelligence gathered "out there" is like having a tree that is about to fall on your house. You can see the tree, you know it's going to fall over, but you can never know for the sure the exact moment it's going to fall. Normally you take measures to cut the tree down before it falls and crushes your house, but every so often the tree is able to fall before you can get it cut down safely. All I can do is believe that the tree will almost always be cut down, and go on with my life and doing the best I can for my community and for other people.

Our intelligence gathering and military preparedness is much, much more sophisticated now then when my father told me this allegory almost 13 years ago. We are moving at light speed to a world that is going to be connected in ways we never imagined possible. Most of it I'm excited about - some of it is scary. But during our lifetimes, and especially our children's lifetimes, we will experience technological and social change much greater than any span of human history. I hope we all survive it. 😉

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Posted : March 30, 2014 4:44 pm
Tiberius
(@Tiberius)
Advanced Member

Tiberius, there isn't any nuke that I know of that has a 250 mile range. Here is the info from a 100 megaton bomb:

These figures are for the proposed 100megaton Tsar Bomba, the biggest bomb ever designed.

Fireball radius: 3.03 km / 1.88 mi
Maximum size of the nuclear fireball; relevance to lived effects depends on height of detonation.

Radiation radius: 7.49 km / 4.65 mi
500 rem radiation dose; between 50% and 90% mortality from acute effects alone; dying takes between several hours and several weeks.

Air blast radius: 12.51 km / 7.77 mi
20 psi overpressure; heavily built concrete buildings are severely damaged or demolished; fatalities approach 100%.

Air blast radius: 33.01 km / 20.51 mi
4.6 psi overpressure; most buildings collapse; injuries universal, fatalities widespread.

Thermal radiation radius: 77.06 km / 47.88 mi
Third-degree burns to all exposed skin; starts fires in flammable materials, contributes to firestorm if large enough.

Really Cruzan? I heard a log time ago a bomb the same size as the Hiroshima blast detonated 1000 feet above the Empire State Building would take out all of Manhattan, North Jersey and part of Connecticut and start fires far beyond that. Not saying your info is incorrect it just sounds like a lame ass bomb.

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Posted : March 30, 2014 9:29 pm
noOne
(@noOne)
Trusted Member

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Posted : March 30, 2014 9:41 pm
JulieKay
(@JulieKay)
Trusted Member

Tiberius, there isn't any nuke that I know of that has a 250 mile range. Here is the info from a 100 megaton bomb:

These figures are for the proposed 100megaton Tsar Bomba, the biggest bomb ever designed.

Fireball radius: 3.03 km / 1.88 mi
Maximum size of the nuclear fireball; relevance to lived effects depends on height of detonation.

Radiation radius: 7.49 km / 4.65 mi
500 rem radiation dose; between 50% and 90% mortality from acute effects alone; dying takes between several hours and several weeks.

Air blast radius: 12.51 km / 7.77 mi
20 psi overpressure; heavily built concrete buildings are severely damaged or demolished; fatalities approach 100%.

Air blast radius: 33.01 km / 20.51 mi
4.6 psi overpressure; most buildings collapse; injuries universal, fatalities widespread.

Thermal radiation radius: 77.06 km / 47.88 mi
Third-degree burns to all exposed skin; starts fires in flammable materials, contributes to firestorm if large enough.

Really Cruzan? I heard a log time ago a bomb the same size as the Hiroshima blast detonated 1000 feet above the Empire State Building would take out all of Manhattan, North Jersey and part of Connecticut and start fires far beyond that. Not saying your info is incorrect it just sounds like a lame ass bomb.

Citation please, not just "something you heard." We've all heard for a while Hovensa is reopening too. 😉

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Posted : March 30, 2014 11:00 pm
noOne
(@noOne)
Trusted Member

Do you even know what a nuclear bomb is made of? Jesus farking Christ. If any nuclear bomb was lame, it was the two dropped on Japan, as their yield was low.

Approximately 600 to 860 milligrams (9.3 to 13.3 grains) of matter in the bomb was converted into the energy of heat and radiation. It exploded with an energy of 16 kilotons of TNT (67 TJ)

For each goal overpressure there is a certain optimum burst height at which the blast range is maximized over ground targets. In a typical air burst, where the blast range is maximized to produce the greatest range of severe damage, i.e. the greatest range that ~10 psi (69 kPa), of pressure is extended over, is a GR/ground range of 0.4 km for 1 kiloton (kt) of TNT yield; 1.9 km for 100 kt; and 8.6 km for 10 megatons (Mt) of TNT. The optimum height of burst to maximize this desired severe ground range destruction for a 1 kt bomb is 0.22 km; for 100 kt, 1 km; and for 10 Mt, 4.7 km.

Since you seem to need things spelled out to you, a ten megaton bomb has a range of 8.6 kilometers, or 5.34 miles when detonated from an optimum height of 4.7 kilometers, or 2.92 miles.

wikipedia is your friend, try it some time.

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Posted : March 30, 2014 11:42 pm
CruzanIron
(@cruzaniron)
Expert

Thank you NoOne for backing up my point that no bomb has a destructive range of 250 miles as another poster asserted.

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Posted : March 30, 2014 11:53 pm
swans
(@swans)
Trusted Member

Some interesting data: 100 Megaton Czar Bomba
Swan

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2101508/Want-know-effect-nuclear-bomb-home-town-Theres-app-that.html

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Posted : March 31, 2014 12:16 am
JulieKay
(@JulieKay)
Trusted Member

Yep. That could take out Manhattan and the NYC area, which would be really bad, but nowhere near the doomsday scenario described above by Tiberius.

And then there's the whole trouble of putting together or obtaining a bomb that large.

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Posted : March 31, 2014 12:17 am
sunshinefun
(@sunshinefun)
Trusted Member

Here's the most compelling theory I've come across so far. I actually think this one could be the answer to what happened.

http://www.westernjournalism.com/real-reason-flight-370-disappeared/

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Posted : March 31, 2014 11:50 am
Tiberius
(@Tiberius)
Advanced Member

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Posted : March 31, 2014 1:23 pm
loucypher
(@loucypher)
Advanced Member

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Posted : March 31, 2014 1:25 pm
speee1dy
(@speee1dy)
Expert

sunshinefun, when i went to the site, it wanted me to sign up. can you tell me what it said? Please

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Posted : March 31, 2014 2:03 pm
JulieKay
(@JulieKay)
Trusted Member

I watched the video sunshinefun, and while I don't rule out any theory completely I find that one hard to swallow too. If the goal was to eliminate four engineers from Freescale, there were many easier and less complicated ways to do it. A convenient car accident, or a house fire, even stage a mugging/robbery gone wrong...

It really seems like grabbing at straws to me, but it is possible.

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Posted : March 31, 2014 2:04 pm
JulieKay
(@JulieKay)
Trusted Member

speee1dy the theory is that one of the powerful private security agencies that owns Freescale wanted to eliminate four engineers that were on the plane that owned valuable patents for semiconductors.

The video is a bit wandering too, it makes points about the NSA and our lack of privacy that really has nothing to do with the murder of four engineers, other than the NSA could make all the facts about a missing plane disappear.

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Posted : March 31, 2014 2:06 pm
sunshinefun
(@sunshinefun)
Trusted Member

You don't have to give your email address to view the video.

It certainly is not outside the realm of possibilities, especially for The Carlyle Group, America's black ops corporation.

Here's a good primer in The Carlyle Group...the first 1:45 is in German but the rest is English.

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Posted : March 31, 2014 3:59 pm
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