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Paris Climate Agreement  

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speee1dy
(@speee1dy)
Islander

Trump pulling out .Wondering what people thing about this. Is it good. Is it bad??

and alana, can you refrain from name calling this time please

ReplyQuote
Posted : June 2, 2017 3:23 pm
rotorhead
(@rotorhead)
Noble Member

Trump is still fulfilling his campaign promises. The `Paris Agreement was bad for the US and was illegally accepted by Obama.

The Paris Agreement is a treaty. As such it requires a two-thirds majority vote by the Senate in order to join. Obama never waited for Senate approval before joining. Another attempt to circumvent the US Constitution.

Besides that it was a bad deal. If we had met our burdensome financial and regulatory requirements under this treaty it was predicted to only make a two-tenths of a degree Celsius difference by 2100. Very expensive for a very small difference in temperature.

I hope that Trump follows up by getting us out of the UN. What a waste of money that is.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
They say there's a heaven for those who will wait
Some say it's better but I say it ain't
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
the sinners are much more fun...
You know that only the good die young.
BJ

ReplyQuote
Posted : June 2, 2017 4:43 pm
Gator's Mom
(@Gator's_Mom)
Prominent Member

The Paris Agreement (French: Accord de Paris) is an agreement within the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC) dealing with greenhouse gas emissions mitigation, adaptation and finance starting in the year 2020.

Just in case you'd like to read the agreement -

http://unfccc.int/files/essential_background/convention/application/pdf/english_paris_agreement.pdf

http://unfccc.int/paris_agreement/items/9485.php

Obama used his executive power to sign on behalf of the US just as Trump decided to remove the US from the agreement using executive power.

The senate was not called on to ratify - because this was not a treaty but rather an broad-reaching agreement to ..... well, agree.... or at least that's how Obama saw it.

Let's burn some coal y'all and make Pittsburgh great again! And Youngstown!

BTW - the UN is a treaty organization, to which the US is a charter member. That one will take more than a blustering speech in the rose garden to pull out of.

Pulling out of the Accord de Paris was easy with great optics for Trump's base of support. Obama left the door wide open on this one.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/06/01/the-u-s-cant-quit-the-paris-climate-agreement-because-it-never-actually-joined/?utm_term=.987994659645

Trump is still fulfilling his campaign promises. The `Paris Agreement was bad for the US and was illegally accepted by Obama.

The Paris Agreement is a treaty. As such it requires a two-thirds majority vote by the Senate in order to join. Obama never waited for Senate approval before joining. Another attempt to circumvent the US Constitution.

Besides that it was a bad deal. If we had met our burdensome financial and regulatory requirements under this treaty it was predicted to only make a two-tenths of a degree Celsius difference by 2100. Very expensive for a very small difference in temperature.

I hope that Trump follows up by getting us out of the UN. What a waste of money that is.

ReplyQuote
Posted : June 2, 2017 8:07 pm
JohnnyU
(@JohnnyU)
Reputable Member

A whole lot of bluster to make everyone feel good.

ReplyQuote
Posted : June 2, 2017 11:38 pm
Alana33
(@Alana33)
Islander

However, the majority of people, the mayors, governor's and corporations in the U.S. are in disagreement with trump on this.
Gee, we join Syria and Nicaragua on pulling out!
You need to fact check trump's speech.
He's a habitual LIAR using alternative reality fallacies vs science and facts.
Ultimately, clean power will employ more people.
Ultimately, we actually have until 2020, long after trump gets impeached to pull out of the agreement.

Trump puts us back in the 20th century while everyone else moves on into the 21st.

But, ultimately, what's wrong with doing what we can to do the best to protect and save our planet and being prepared for the worst?
Are you against clean water, air, oceans and lands, protecting wildlife, our environment, our health, our lives?

ReplyQuote
Posted : June 3, 2017 8:44 pm
Alana33
(@Alana33)
Islander
Alana33
(@Alana33)
Islander

In case some of any " bigly" words aren't understandable, here's a link.
https://www.merriam-webster.com

ReplyQuote
Posted : June 3, 2017 11:18 pm
rotorhead
(@rotorhead)
Noble Member

Obama used his executive power to sign on behalf of the US just as Trump decided to remove the US from the agreement using executive power.

The senate was not called on to ratify - because this was not a treaty but rather an broad-reaching agreement to ..... well, agree.... or at least that's how Obama saw it.

Obama might have thought that he was doing an end run around the constitution but many think that a document which commits the US to the many things that the Paris Agreement does is most certainly a treaty which requires Senate approval.

"Obama did an end-run around the two-thirds Senate vote required to ratify any treaty. Trump should return to the constitutional norm."
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/448156/paris-agreement-treaty-requiring-two-thirds-senate-vote

"President Trump is expected to announce today that the United States will not be party to the Paris agreement on climate change. What he should say is that the United States never properly joined the accord: It is a treaty that requires the advice and consent of the Senate. Instead, President Barack Obama choose to “adopt” it with an executive order last September."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/06/01/the-u-s-cant-quit-the-paris-climate-agreement-because-it-never-actually-joined/

"The Obama Administration's unilateral treatment of the Paris Agreement is particularly disquieting for two reasons: (1) the agreement has all the hallmarks of a treaty that should be submitted to the Senate for its advice and consent under Article II, Section 2, of the U.S. Constitution; and (2) the agreement contains "targets and timetables" for emissions reductions and, as such, the Administration's failure to submit the agreement to the Senate breaches a commitment made by the executive branch to the Senate in 1992 during the ratification process of the UNFCCC."
http://www.heritage.org/environment/report/the-paris-agreement-treaty-and-should-be-submitted-the-senate

"For all the applause for the Paris Climate Agreement, current treatment of the agreement is almost certainly a violation of the treaty clause of the U.S. Constitution.

Article II, Section 2, Clause 2 of the Constitution stipulates, “The President...shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur...” Most international agreements, especially ones sharing the magnitude of the Paris Accord, are treaties in the constitutional sense and should be presented to the Senate as such. President Obama’s decision to evade the Constitution by entering into the agreement, which will have major domestic impacts, and treat the accord as anything less than a treaty is an abrogation of his oath of office."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/young-professionals-in-foreign-policy/why-the-paris-climate-agr_b_9914606.html

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
They say there's a heaven for those who will wait
Some say it's better but I say it ain't
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
the sinners are much more fun...
You know that only the good die young.
BJ

ReplyQuote
Posted : June 4, 2017 12:15 am
JohnnyU
(@JohnnyU)
Reputable Member

I'm happy for them and it appears that this president will allow them to make decisions as they see fit

I'm glad you came out against the constitution, fascist.

ReplyQuote
Posted : June 4, 2017 12:15 am
Alana33
(@Alana33)
Islander
Alana33
(@Alana33)
Islander

I'm happy for them and it appears that this president will allow them to make decisions as they see fit

I'm glad you came out against the constitution, fascist.

I'm happy there'll be a full court press against dt's ongoing ignorance.
He's UNFIT and an embarrassment, to say the least

ReplyQuote
Posted : June 4, 2017 3:19 am
rotorhead
(@rotorhead)
Noble Member

Also from Forbes.

"Even if you believe humankind contributes to climate change and global climate agreements are a good thing—I’m guilty on both counts—President Trump was right to announce America’s withdrawal from the 2015 Paris Agreement."
http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonchang/2017/06/04/trump-ditching-paris-agreement-might-actually-save-the-planet/

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
They say there's a heaven for those who will wait
Some say it's better but I say it ain't
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
the sinners are much more fun...
You know that only the good die young.
BJ

ReplyQuote
Posted : June 4, 2017 3:31 am
Gator's Mom
(@Gator's_Mom)
Prominent Member

From today's NYT - all about those Koch boys from Kansas again. This is a good read though quite thorough and lengthy. Not just a sound bite or meme.

Obama knew that there was zero chance of legislative action with Republicans captive to special interest money.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/03/us/politics/republican-leaders-climate-change.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

ReplyQuote
Posted : June 4, 2017 1:38 pm
rotorhead
(@rotorhead)
Noble Member

"“Some scientists make ‘period, end of story’ claims,” writes biologist and naturalist Daniel Botkin in the Wall Street Journal, “that human-induced global warming definitely, absolutely either is or isn’t happening.”

These scientists, as well as the network of activists and cronies their science supports, I will refer to as the Climate Orthodoxy. These are the folks who urge, generally, that (a) global warming is occurring, (b) it is almost entirely man-made, and (c) it is occurring at a rate and severity that makes it an impending planetary emergency requiring political action. A Climate Agnostic questions at least one of those premises."

http://fee.org/articles/earth-day-22-ways-to-think-about-the-climate-change-debate/

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
They say there's a heaven for those who will wait
Some say it's better but I say it ain't
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
the sinners are much more fun...
You know that only the good die young.
BJ

ReplyQuote
Posted : June 4, 2017 2:40 pm
Gator's Mom
(@Gator's_Mom)
Prominent Member

You know this isn't journalism don't you?

I don't care about global warming - I do care about reduction in the use of fossil fuels that are finite in sourcing. It is incumbent on all of us to encourage wind, solar and yet to be discovered technologies that will fuel our world well into the future.

"“Some scientists make ‘period, end of story’ claims,” writes biologist and naturalist Daniel Botkin in the Wall Street Journal, “that human-induced global warming definitely, absolutely either is or isn’t happening.”

These scientists, as well as the network of activists and cronies their science supports, I will refer to as the Climate Orthodoxy. These are the folks who urge, generally, that (a) global warming is occurring, (b) it is almost entirely man-made, and (c) it is occurring at a rate and severity that makes it an impending planetary emergency requiring political action. A Climate Agnostic questions at least one of those premises."

http://fee.org/articles/earth-day-22-ways-to-think-about-the-climate-change-debate/

ReplyQuote
Posted : June 4, 2017 3:47 pm
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