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dntw8up
(@dntw8up)
Trusted Member

I'm saying that if undocumented immigration is a crime, then it's at worst akin to shoplifting food to avoid starvation, and that the solution is to address the root of the problem (abject poverty) rather than the symptom (immigration).

Even if illegal immigration were a crime akin to shoplifting food to avoid starvation, it does not follow that legal immigrants and their descendants should be held responsible for the issues, like abject poverty, that motivate people to immigrate illegally. Legal immigrants and their descendants did not bear the children who became the adults whose circumstances were such that they deemed it preferable to live as a criminal in another nation.

It is no surprise that the nations south of us, where Catholicism and its views on contraception reign, are unable to provide adequately for their citizens, but their failures are not our obligations to remedy, and our remedies would be most unwelcome anyway. The circumstances of everyone's life are largely luck of the draw, in terms of where and to whom one is born, and the opportunities that follow, and simply wanting more does not justify breaking the law.

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Posted : May 8, 2010 7:49 pm
A Davis
(@A_Davis)
Trusted Member

Wow, it looks like some people never went to bed last night!

Antiqueone: “Cheap Tomatoes” is a hate piece because it portrays the subject in a negative light. In this case, it makes illegal immigrants look like contemptible leeches. How do we know that it’s, “facts and observations of reality?” It has no named author and no citations, so there is no way to check the sources. It contains fantastic allegations and urges the reader to forward it to everybody they know. In that regard, it resembles a hoax email.

Rotorhead asked, “At what point was the government mandated to do wealth redistribution?” It started with FDR’s New Deal.

Stephyjh: You wrote that, “people will be considered guilty until proven innocent.” Presumption of innocence means the burden of proof of guilt (ie: conviction) is on the prosecution, rather than on the defendant. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presumption_of_innocence It does not preclude police from acting on probable cause. Perhaps you mean to complain about unreasonable search and seizure instead. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreasonable_search_and_seizure

Stephyjh: What’s wrong with Wikipedia? Their authors have written and compiled extensive information which would take me forever to find on my own, and their sources are usually cited.

The Arizona law is not as evil as some people think. From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona_Immigration_Law :
“On April 30 [2010], the Arizona legislature passed, and Governor Brewer signed, House Bill 2162, which modified the law that had been signed a week earlier, with the amended text stating that "prosecutors would not investigate complaints based on race, color or national origin."[25] The new text also states that police may only investigate immigration status incident to a "lawful stop, detention, or arrest", lowers the original fine from a minimum of $500 to a maximum of $100, and changes incarceration limits from 6 months to 20 days for first-time offenders.”

So in this law, racial profiling is not allowed, and nobody can be stopped simply because they are suspected of being an illegal immigrant. They can be asked for papers only if they are stopped for something else first. Time will tell how this law is actually implemented, and whether it’s constitutional.

the part about only questioning as part of an active crime investigation was added after the uproar began, fwiw:
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/may/01/nation/la-na-arizona-immigration-20100501

excerpt:
"The initial law, signed by Gov. Jan Brewer last week, required police to determine a person's immigration status if officers formed a reasonable suspicion about their legality during any "lawful contact." That led to suggestions by some legal experts that police would be obligated to scrutinize even people who asked for directions. A Phoenix police officer who patrols an area near a school sued, contending that it would require him to ask children he encounters during the day if they are in the country legally."

"Lawmakers on Thursday night changed the language to require scrutiny only of people who police stop, detain or arrest. They also changed a section of the bill that barred officers from "solely" using race as grounds for suspecting someone is in the country illegally; opponents had argued that that would allow race to be a factor. The legislators removed the word "solely" to bar race from being used by officers enforcing the law.

"It absolutely clarifies what the intent was," said Paul Senseman, a spokesman for Brewer, who supported the changes and is expected to sign them into law. "It's undeniable now that this bill will not lead to racial profiling." "

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Posted : May 8, 2010 9:15 pm
stephyjh
(@stephyjh)
Advanced Member

I still challenge the notion that there's any such thing as a descendant of legal immigrants to the US. Europeans came without asking the Native Americans' permission and then felt like they could dictate who came and who didn't. It wasn't theirs to give away. From a Native American's perspective, the writers of the bill are descended from the same illegal immigrants the bill is intended to crack down on.

And yes, American greed is in large part responsible for the poverty in developing countries, because we ship our labor there where we can have it done by people who will work for pennies on the dollar. We made the mess.

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Posted : May 8, 2010 11:32 pm
A Davis
(@A_Davis)
Trusted Member

I still challenge the notion that there's any such thing as a descendant of legal immigrants to the US. Europeans came without asking the Native Americans' permission and then felt like they could dictate who came and who didn't. It wasn't theirs to give away. From a Native American's perspective, the writers of the bill are descended from the same illegal immigrants the bill is intended to crack down on.

And yes, American greed is in large part responsible for the poverty in developing countries, because we ship our labor there where we can have it done by people who will work for pennies on the dollar. We made the mess.

hoisted by one's own petard.

took centuries for that dog to bite, but bite it does.

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Posted : May 9, 2010 12:31 am
dntw8up
(@dntw8up)
Trusted Member

I still challenge the notion that there's any such thing as a descendant of legal immigrants to the US. Europeans came without asking the Native Americans' permission and then felt like they could dictate who came and who didn't. It wasn't theirs to give away. From a Native American's perspective, the writers of the bill are descended from the same illegal immigrants the bill is intended to crack down on...

Have you heard of Kennewick Man? http://archaeological-artifacts.suite101.com/article.cfm/kennewick-man----discovery-of-ancient-skeleton
The first person to set foot on land that is now the US may very well have been Caucasoid! But does the ancestry of skeletal remains in the US really matter? At a point in history American Indians were unable to protect their interests from outside forces who had different interests, and to the victors went the spoils. Mankind has a long history of settling its differences and the weaker (militarily, fiscally, intellectually, whatever) has inevitably lost to the stronger. Therefore arguing that illegal immigrants have some sort of native right to be here is pretty pointless.

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Posted : May 9, 2010 1:03 am
stephyjh
(@stephyjh)
Advanced Member

I'm not arguing that illegal immigrants have a "native right." I'm saying that the white man doesn't.

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Posted : May 9, 2010 1:07 am
anjell
(@anjell)
Advanced Member

Here's my take on this issue. A few years ago, I was anti-immigration due to the job situation in California. I've since had a change of heart. Here's why, most of the immigrants coming to the U.S. are not all doing this because they want to. There are recruiters going to Mexico, Guatemala, India, Thailand and other countries recruiting workers to come to the U.S. to work for low wages, sometimes as low as $3.00 an hour in the U.S.

Here I am providing links, if they don't work, then feel free to google the titles.

"Indian Guestworker Slits Wrists After Being Fired for Complaining About Squalid Work Conditions" http://www.democracynow.org/2007/3/15/indian_guestworker_slits_wrist_after_being **this talks about recruiters going to India, also Mexico charging $400 for airlines then once receive the $400 they are (quoted) "packed in vans like sardines and passports confiscated."

"Non-Citizen US War Vets Facing Deportation Despite Military Promises of Citizenship" http://www.democracynow.org/2010/4/5/non_citizen_us_war_vets_facing

"Indentured Servitude Persist in Florida's Fields" http://npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyID=120576412 ***this talks about workers under armed guards to work tomato fields.

"Nobodies: Modern American Slave Labor and the Dark Side of the New Global Economy" http://www.cceiga.org/resources/transcripts/0007.html# **this includes transcripts from EEOC, mentions a recruiting company that did work for Haliburton at Guantanamo, a guy from Oklahoma brought in guys from India paying them $3.00 an hour and then shipped them to Kuwait for the same wages. This same guy said why hire an American worker for $30 hr when they can hire someone for less than $10 hr... it also talks about how workers are threatened with death if they try to escape. It mentions a well-respected economist who gets on television talking about the economy but fails to tell the entire story of globalization.

After reading much information on what the workers go through, I do not blame the immigrants at all. Especially when some pay as much as $20k to get here and there's a chance they could lose everything back home - they put themselves into debt back home, and the money they make here may keep them in debt! BTW, it's not just foreign workers, one of the articles, either Indentured Servititude Persist or Nobodies: Modern American talks about sometimes these American companies pick up American citizens that are homeless from bus stations to work under these same conditions.

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Posted : May 9, 2010 8:00 am
antiqueone
(@antiqueone)
Advanced Member

anjell~ These are strong arguments why illegal immigration needs to be stopped and why legal immigration needs to be simplified. Just remember: if I sneak into Mexico illegally, and an officer demands my papers, I will go to jail. Why should it be any different here?

Here's a thought. Deport all illegal aliens as soon as they are caught. Put them at the end of the line of those applying for work visas in the US. Open the borders to those with valid work visas and a current job or funds to survive while finding a job.

When I was in Japan, a guest visa lasted 6 months. When the six months was up you had to leave the country. Many of us would take a day trip to Korea, get a new stamp on our visa and be back at work on Monday. We could do the same here in the border towns to facilitate this whole process. Legal immigrants do not have to put up with the horrors anjell talks about.

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Posted : May 9, 2010 12:45 pm
Tippi
(@Tippi)
Trusted Member
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Posted : May 9, 2010 3:50 pm
terry
(@terry)
Expert

A Real Eye Opener ...

WHY is the USA BANKRUPT?

Informative, and mind boggling!

You think the war in Iraq was costing us too much? Read this:

We have been hammered with the propaganda that it was the Iraq war and the war on terror that is bankrupting us.

I now find that to be RIDICULOUS.

I hope the following 14 reasons are forwarded over and over again until they are read so many times that the reader gets sick of reading them. I also have included the URL's for verification of all the following facts...

1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year by state governments.

Verify at: http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic_immigrationissuecenters7fd8

2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.

Verify at: http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.HTML

3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens. Verify at: http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.HTML

4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English!

Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt..0.HTML

5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.

Verify at http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt.01.HTML

6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens. Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/%20TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt.01.HTML

7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.

Verify at: http://transcripts.CNN.com/TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt.01.HTML ;" href="http://cnn.com/TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt.01.HTML%3E;" rel="nofollowcnn.com/TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt.01.HTML%3E;;" href="http://cnn.com/TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt.01.HTML%3E;" target=_blank rel=nofollow>;" href="http://cnn.com/TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt.01.HTML%3E;" rel="nofollowcnn.com/TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt.01.HTML%3E;;" href="http://cnn.com/TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt.01.HTML%3E;" target=_blank rel=nofollow>

8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare & social services by the American taxpayers.

Verify at: http://premium.cnncom/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.HTML

9. $200 Billion dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens.

Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSC%20RI%20PTS/0604/01/ldt.01.HTML

10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US .

Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn..com/TRANscriptS/0606/12/ldt..01.HTML " href="http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANscriptS/0606/12/ldt.01.HTML%3E" rel="nofollow http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANscriptS/0606/12/ldt.01.HTML%3 E" href="http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANscriptS/0606/12/ldt.01.HTML%3E" target=_blank rel=nofollow>" href="http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANscriptS/0606/12/ldt.01.HTML%3E" rel="nofollow http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANscriptS/0606/12/ldt.01.HTML%3 E" href="http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANscriptS/0606/12/ldt.01.HTML%3E" target=_blank rel=nofollow>

11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries.. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and marijuana, crossed into the US from the Southern border.

Verify at: Homeland Security Report:

12. The National policy Institute estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period.

Verify at: http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute..org/PDF/deportation.PDF

13. In 2006, illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances to their countries of origin.

Verify at: http://www/..rense.com/general75/niht.htm " href="http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm%3E" rel="nofollow http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm%3 E" href="http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm%3E" target=_blank rel=nofollow>" href="http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm%3E" rel="nofollow http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm%3 E" href="http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm%3E" target=_blank rel=nofollow>

14.The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One million sex crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States .

Verify at: http: // www.drdsk.com/articleshtml http://ww/%20w.drdsk.com/articleshtml ;Â Â " href="http://20w.drdsk.com/articleshtml%3E;%C2%A0%C2%A0" rel="nofollow http://20w.drdsk.com/articleshtml%3E; ;Â Â " href="http://20w.drdsk.com/articleshtml%3E;%C2%A0%C2%A0" target=_blank rel=nofollow>;Â Â " href="http://20w.drdsk.com/articleshtml%3E;%C2%A0%C2%A0" rel="nofollow http://20w.drdsk.com/articleshtml%3E; ;Â Â " href="http://20w.drdsk.com/articleshtml%3E;%C2%A0%C2%A0" target=_blank rel=nofollow>

The total cost is a whopping $ 338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR AND IF YOU'RE LIKE ME, HAVING TROUBLE UNDERSTANDING THIS AMOUNT OF MONEY; IT IS $338,300,000,000.00 WHICH WOULD BE ENOUGH TO STIMULATE THE ECONOMY FOR THE CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTRY.

Are we THAT stupid? YES, FOR LETTING THOSE IN THE U.S.CONGRESS GET AWAY WITH LETTING THIS HAPPEN YEAR AFTER YEAR!!!!!

If this doesn't bother you then just delete the message. If, on the other hand, it does raise the hair on the back of your neck, I hope you forward it to every legal resident in the United States AND PLEASE REMEMBER IT AT THE NEXT ELECTIONS!!!

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Posted : May 9, 2010 5:01 pm
STXBob
(@STXBob)
Trusted Member

Terry, thanks for posting the hate piece “WHY is the USA BANKRUPT?” The citations and sources are useful in judging the article.

FAIR (Federation for American Immigration Reform) is listed as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center:
http://www.splcenter.org/publications/the-nativist-lobby-three-faces-of-intolerance/fair-the-action-arm
“At the center of the Tanton web is the nonprofit Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), the most important organization fueling the backlash against immigration. Founded by Tanton in 1979, FAIR has long been marked by anti-Latino and anti-Catholic attitudes. It has mixed this bigotry with a fondness for eugenics, the idea of breeding better humans discredited by its Nazi associations. It has accepted $1.2 million from an infamous, racist eugenics foundation. It has employed officials in key positions who are also members of white supremacist groups. Recently, it has promoted racist conspiracy theories about Mexico's secret designs on the American Southwest and an alternative theory alleging secret plans to merge the United States, Mexico and Canada. In 2006, a senior FAIR official sought ‘advice’ from the leaders of a racist Belgian political party.”

CIS (Center for Immigration Studies) is listed as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center:
http://www.splcenter.org/publications/the-nativist-lobby-three-faces-of-intolerance/cis-the-independent-think-tank
“…CIS was started in 1985 by a Michigan ophthalmologist named John Tanton — a man known for his racist statements about Latinos, his decades-long flirtation with white nationalists and Holocaust deniers, and his publication of ugly racist materials. CIS' creation was part of a carefully thought-out strategy aimed at creating a set of complementary institutions to cultivate the nativist cause — groups including the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR)…And while Tanton never actually ran CIS, his correspondence shows that as late as 1994, nine years after it was started, Tanton, who remains on FAIR's board of directors today, saw himself as setting the ‘proper roles for FAIR and CIS.’ He raised millions of dollars for the think tank and published the writings of top CIS officials in his racist journal, The Social Contract. He maneuvered a friend on to the board of CIS — a man who shared his interest in eugenics and who attended events with Tanton where white nationalists gave presentations.”

National Policy Institute is listed as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center:
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2006/summer/irreconcilable-differences/the-groups
“…the National Policy Institute was established with a staff of four in September 2005 by far-right publisher William Regnery. The institute's mission statement says it aims ‘to elevate the consciousness of whites, ensure our biological and cultural continuity, and protect our civil rights. The institute ... will study the consequences of the ongoing influx that non-Western populations pose to our national identity.’ In an August 2005 speech to the Chicagoland Friends of American Renaissance (see group profile below), Regnery warned that ‘within the first or secondhand memories of people in this room, the white race may go from master of the universe to an anthropological curiosity.’ “

None of the CNN transcript links are valid. Which haters were they interviewing on those days?

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Posted : May 9, 2010 6:27 pm
anjell
(@anjell)
Advanced Member

Tippi,

Here's one that floating across different websites, "Jan Brewer, Dean Martin Now (Former) 'Friends' of Neo-Nazi J.T. Ready" in the Phoenix New Times http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/bastard/2010/05/jan_brewer_dean_martin_and_oth.php this is the same news paper that Rachel Maddow credit with a picture of Senator Russell Pearce and J.T. Ready

Even better, "Outsourcing America" www.aflcio.org/aboutus/ 3-11-2004 "cnn.com-is your job going abroad" 2-23-2004

The problem with open borders didn't start under the Obama administration. When the construction boom was in full force - we heard "the immigrants will need housing," here we saw new construction of apartments, condominiums, and homes. In fact, if you google Texas recruiting teachers from Mexico or Spanish speaking teachers from abroad, you will see this didn't happen overnight.

For me personally, I don't blame the immigrants or the new administration. What I would like answers to is why did Cheney take a new trip to Riyadh see picture and read http://hurryupharry.org/2010/05/05/cheney_in_riyadh/#comments *I'd like to know why he continues to bash the new POTUS, is this because the new POTUS is getting in the way of his making more than more money - oil, haliburton, etc. How much is it costing the taxpayers for Cheney to take these trips? Cheney appears to be more active (traveling) and more vocal (on teevee) that he's out of office than when he was in office. I mean didn't he hurt his back, and doesn't he have a heart condition? This is amazing!

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Posted : May 9, 2010 7:17 pm
anjell
(@anjell)
Advanced Member

Antiqueone,

I hear ya! However, I guess I'm just thinking of how much money it will cost taxpayers to deport said immigrants, when the businesses will continue going through the backdoor (loopholes) to bring them in.

I am a black female, and I have experienced the effects of immigration first hand. When I was out looking for a job a few years ago, several times a latino boss refused to hire me, in fact there were no blacks working at said businesses. One job I did manage to get, there were some latinos that would hide or get rid of my work supplies while on my off days. Then in Los Angeles, in Hawaiian Gardens area, it was a big write up in the newspapers about latino gangs killing the blacks in order to get them out of the neighborhood - then just google Jamiel Shaw, and Cheryl Green to see some of the effects. In Fact, the unemployment rate for blacks is higher than latinos - last time I checked it was 16.5% for blacks.

I happen to agree with one poster, at http://www.atlantapost.com/2010/04/black-and-brown-unite-to-fight-sb-1070/ "Black and Brown Should Unite to Fight SB 1070" here, a poster said, this is a immigration issue and not a civil rights issue. So, I guess to make clear, I'm not saying I'm against or for SB 1070, I'm just pretty much saying that, it's the wrong idea to keep saying it's the governments fault for open borders - I believe it's the businesses fault, and if you read some of the post above, maybe some of the immigrants don't have their passports/work-visas is because the businesses take these documents from them, maybe some have escaped the work place.

As far as the laws in Mexico, I don't have a clue, I've never been there. I have a passport, but, knowing how MOST latinos feel about blacks, I've just never been there. Based on my own personal experiences with latinos, no, I will not be out there to protest against laws being passed - BTW, in San Diego, Duncan Hunter, said he is considering passing a bill to deport children born of illegal immigrants, so, I'm thinking this one will create more publicity than SB1070. I may be wrong in my thinking, but, this is not my fight, this is theirs - not being selfish, but as a black person, I have my own struggles and problems.

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Posted : May 10, 2010 1:45 am
terry
(@terry)
Expert

Obama didn't start this problem but it is his now to try and solve.

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Posted : May 10, 2010 2:27 am
roadrunner
(@roadrunner)
Trusted Member

I'm just pretty much saying that, it's the wrong idea to keep saying it's the governments fault for open borders - I believe it's the businesses fault,

Unfortunately, the line between government and business has become quite blurred.

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Posted : May 10, 2010 3:38 am
Native Son
(@Native_Son)
Advanced Member

Had legal hispanics been more proactive turning in illegals, had the federal government been more responsive to the states' cries for a closed border--like almost every other country in the world, had there not been terrorist attacks on our soil, then this might never have been and issue. I am all for making it easier to immigrate legally, but I can't abide the idea that anyone thinks they can just walk on over here and get a free education, social security, medicaid or any other benefit just because they were able to sneak across our borders.

As to profiling, it only makes sense to spend your efforts with those people who have been shown to flaunt our laws, whether it is Arab Muslims likely to blow things up or hispanics sneaking into the US. Could just as easily have been Irish immigrants a few years back, couldn't it? Let's get back to common sense and give this "politically correct" thinking a rest, OK? There are people out there who want to take advantage of us and it is the government's job to protect us from them.

Timothy McVeigh liked to blow things up...were all white males racially profiled because of him? What about the guys who used to like to blow up churches in Birmingham, not too long ago...with little girls inside. Did they "flaunt our laws" ? What about the guy who recently flew his airplane into an IRS building...hmmm, maybe we should profile all Cessna pilots.

You need to read a history of Western involvement in the Middle East before condemning "Arab Muslims".

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Posted : May 10, 2010 1:32 pm
aussie
(@aussie)
Trusted Member

You haven't posted in awhile, Native Son. Welcome back!

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Posted : May 10, 2010 4:04 pm
antiqueone
(@antiqueone)
Advanced Member

Native Son: If I were a Saudi in Saudi Arabia, I think it would be in my best interests to keep an eye on any American in my territory. Some will be drinking demon alcohol, others smoking pot, still others trying to steal my oil and others trying to spread horrible Christianity. But we are not there, we are here.

You don't profile individual criminals, you identify dangerous groups, like the KKK, skinheads, and potentially dangerous groups: young male arabs with no apparent income living like a king and spouting anti-American epithets, or non-English speaking hispanics who are wearing gang colors and don't have any ID. A 70 year old hispanic woman does not fit the profilel, nor does a 7 year old boy, even though he may be illegal. On the other hand, a black male near the Arizona border does not fit the current illegal immigrant profile. Nor does a white male wearing a sombrero. Still both the black and white males would be stopped and asked for IDs if they were speeding or had a broken tail light, right? What is wrong with that?

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Posted : May 10, 2010 4:53 pm
A Davis
(@A_Davis)
Trusted Member

ad posted here with "do your job. secure the border" as tag

um... the president cannot pass immigration reform on his own. contact your representatives. that's our collective "job".

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Posted : May 10, 2010 6:08 pm
Tippi
(@Tippi)
Trusted Member

ADavis:
That You Tube was from the Gov of Arizona. If you watched it you would have known that.

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Posted : May 10, 2010 9:29 pm
anjell
(@anjell)
Advanced Member

Antiqueone,

That's true, to follow groups. I don't remember which website I saw, and someone kept mentioning the Phoenix New Times, so I decided to look at it myself to see what was going on. It does seem that Arizona have a problem with a lot of activities there. One thing is for sure, I am against racism. From what I see coming out of Arizona, Posse, Nativist, Patriot, Anarchist, Nazi groups, it just seems suspect with the new SB1070. I saw pictures with Nazis in full uniform, displaying Nazi flags, wearing weapons, all of these in public, that would make me afraid when there are pictures with elected officials in their presence. No offense to anyone, but this is the title, "Hillbilly Hootenanny: Nativist Jabronis Occupy the Arizona State Capitol for Yet Another Hate Fest" http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes/bastard/2009/11/hillbilly_hootenanny_nativist.php then here's another "Arizona Tea Party Pudding' Heads; Plus, Russell Pearce Says Joe Arpaio Won't Run for Guv, Despite Business Journal Report" http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/bastard/2009/09/arizona_tea_party_hardy_russel.php There's also this Channel 5 KPHO that tried to list everything in a row "Exposing Sheriff Joe Arpaio and Maricopa County Sheriff Corruption" http://www.sheriffjoecorruption.com/KPHO this includes articles and videos - one video of Pearce: We must stop immigration.
I believe this is highly suspect of being racism because, the neo-Nazis or National Socialist Movement have recently been holding rallies in California called Take Back the Southwest. See "Inland Empire Weekly-The Tip of the Iceberg" http://www.ieweekly.com/story/detail/the_tip_of_the_iceberg/2924/ To read that the Nazis are yelling "You're animals, go back to the jungle, 2012 is coming for you." The question I have is why do I keep reading 2012 is coming for you. What is important about this date? I'm not saying you personally could answer this question, but this is a question I can't find an answer to. But I do know that in reading some of these things from Phoenix New Times, sometimes there are quotes from one of the groups saying they want a European American homeland or country.
I am against racism because I have seen it, I have experienced it. I think that no one should ever have to experience this in their lifetime.

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Posted : May 10, 2010 9:30 pm
dntw8up
(@dntw8up)
Trusted Member

The question I have is why do I keep reading 2012 is coming for you. What is important about this date? I'm not saying you personally could answer this question, but this is a question I can't find an answer to.

Presidential election

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Posted : May 10, 2010 10:22 pm
A Davis
(@A_Davis)
Trusted Member

ADavis:
That You Tube was from the Gov of Arizona. If you watched it you would have known that.

certainly i know that. just wanted someone who may not be so informed to understand how the government works and not buy into that little entreaty at the end.

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Posted : May 10, 2010 10:57 pm
Tippi
(@Tippi)
Trusted Member

ADavis......

Had Obama done his job in securing our borders; the Arizona gov. would not have made that video. Let me guess you found humor in Obama's statement regarding illegals in Arizona? I, like the Gov. of Arizona didn't find Obama's statement funny.

Tippi

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Posted : May 10, 2010 11:04 pm
STXBob
(@STXBob)
Trusted Member

The question I have is why do I keep reading 2012 is coming for you. What is important about this date? I'm not saying you personally could answer this question, but this is a question I can't find an answer to.

Presidential election

Also, the end of the world.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_phenomenon

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Posted : May 10, 2010 11:51 pm
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