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DUN
 DUN
(@DUN)
Trusted Member

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein "
Michael

But Michael, some here don`t like Quotes...
Since they are so against them, I suspect that means they wish to re-invent the wheel so to speak!

I`m into history, & a firm believer that it repeats itself.
And much to my dismay, we don`t seem to learn from it & repeat the same dam thing over again.(like reinventing that wheel).
These people must feel they are so unique, they they will grace us with a new perspective, one that has never been imagined before!

But I`ll use a very similar quote (from a slightly different perspective, which i feel yields the same result) to explain what you just explained (& I agree with)

"if you always do what you always did, you always get what you always got."

The bottom line means to me to apply this is to say if it`s working, leave it alone, but if it`s not, do something different!

So, put that in your pipe & smoke it those whom shun quotes I say!!!

I`m not taking any sides on this, at the moment, just observing.

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Posted : December 13, 2009 3:06 am
rotorhead
(@rotorhead)
Trusted Member

I'm in the midst of working with the faa field office in PR to shut down the prick on STX who thinks it is lots of fun to buzz my home 200 feet AGL while my kids are playing outside.

How's this going Arlo? Any progress yet?

It is also against the law to file a false report. The FAA takes into account credibility. A pilot with 4000+ hours and not a single violation versus a student pilot who knows everything.

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Posted : December 13, 2009 3:56 pm
Lizard
(@Lizard)
Trusted Member

Intimidation doesn't stop an investigation:-o

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Posted : December 13, 2009 5:20 pm
rotorhead
(@rotorhead)
Trusted Member

Just sitting at the Brew Pub on a Sunday afternoon drinking a Pale Ale trying to intimidate everyone. I was just wondering when the threats will end and I will get an offical chance to respond. Arlo's first threat of FAA action was in August and so far I have not heard from them.

John

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Posted : December 13, 2009 6:56 pm
Lizard
(@Lizard)
Trusted Member

Sounds like your ale isn't the only thing that turned pale:D

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Posted : December 13, 2009 7:08 pm
ColdWhether
(@ColdWhether)
Advanced Member

John,

The Puerto Rico field office left me a voicemail a few weeks ago about my complaint. I've been busy so I haven't had an opportunity to follow up ,but apparently the videos and photos I have of you interested the main FAA office enough to actually ask the field office to look into it. It's pretty hard to suggest that my reports are "false" when they are on film.

I made a polite effort to reach out to you and ask you to fly a bit further from my house because you were scaring my 2 year old and 6 year old with your antics. I don't see the purpose of your reckless flying nor do I see what you gain from your response.

I have not been on island lately so I don't know whether you still continue to buzz my home, but now that you've expressed to me how humorous you found my polite contact, my polite follow-up and finally my report to the FAA I will follow up more vigilantly.

You seem like a smart guy and from what I've heard about you sound like you've got a good business head on your shoulders, you have nothing to gain by taunting me or aggravating the situation further.

-Arlo

*edit* I should note on here that when I contacted you via e-mail and mentioned that I was a student pilot, it was not in a "oh i know the laws cause I'm a pilot" type of mentality but rather an attempt to reach out to you and say "hey, i appreciate aviation too but you're scaring the shit out of my family".

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Posted : December 19, 2009 3:11 am
rotorhead
(@rotorhead)
Trusted Member

John,

The Puerto Rico field office left me a voicemail a few weeks ago about my complaint. I've been busy so I haven't had an opportunity to follow up ,but apparently the videos and photos I have of you interested the main FAA office enough to actually ask the field office to look into it. It's pretty hard to suggest that my reports are "false" when they are on film.

I made a polite effort to reach out to you and ask you to fly a bit further from my house because you were scaring my 2 year old and 6 year old with your antics. I don't see the purpose of your reckless flying nor do I see what you gain from your response.

I have not been on island lately so I don't know whether you still continue to buzz my home, but now that you've expressed to me how humorous you found my polite contact, my polite follow-up and finally my report to the FAA I will follow up more vigilantly.

You seem like a smart guy and from what I've heard about you sound like you've got a good business head on your shoulders, you have nothing to gain by taunting me or aggravating the situation further.

-Arlo

*edit* I should note on here that when I contacted you via e-mail and mentioned that I was a student pilot, it was not in a "oh i know the laws cause I'm a pilot" type of mentality but rather an attempt to reach out to you and say "hey, i appreciate aviation too but you're scaring the shit out of my family".

Your initial email to me was titled "N7192B Buzzing my home", you went on to accuse me of endangering your family. I did not answer this email because I consider this to be a very confrontational greeting. I have never endangered your family or anyone else. Your idea of polite is very different from mine.

Your first post on this thread even though we have had no contact at all was to call me a prick. We don't even know each other .I guess this is your polite followup. I know that I have never hovered at low level over your house so when you start talking about loosing an engine while buzzing your house at 200 AGL I know that you are lying. I found your post on the previous page offensive, that's why I responded the way i did.

I am always out over the water at an appropriate distance and altitude. If I loose an engine then I am going down into the water. And I have floats on the helicopter along with a life raft and PFDs. I have been flying the coastline of St Croix for the past 9 years, both privately and as an Aircraft Commander for the US Coast Guard. I am not sure what "antics" that you refer to but I find that characterization offensive.

I think that the helicopter is not so much a danger as an annoyance to you. I am not sure why. I fly by your house 3-4 times a month usually at 200 AGL and 300' offshore at 80 kts. That means that I come and go in less that 15 seconds. I always fly by in the afternoon, never early in the morning or late at night. I have never had a reason to BUZZ your house. The Appleton's used to wave when I flew by, you instead make unfounded accusations.

I am not worried about your video or an investigation. I have been through them before. I always fly at a safe altitude for the terrain. I keep a log of my passengers along with their phone numbers. When the FAA contacts me and they have done so 4 times over the past 9 years. I give them my statement along with the phone numbers of my passengers. This has always been sufficient in the past and none of the investigations has ever resulted in any action. It is interesting that 3 of the 4 complaints were from new waterfront homeowners who thought that I should not fly by their house out over the water. The 4th person reported me for flying at a low level over my own property. I was landing and I have 8 acres and plenty of room to land safely. In that case I took aerial photos of my helipad and gave them to the FAA. They were happy with that.

I have started the same defense for your case as I did in the past. Your house is now part of my island tour. Whenever I fly by your house I point it out to my passengers and ask them to note the house and our location over the water and altitude. I encourage them to take pictures and video of the house and point out to them that they might be contacted by the FAA as a witness. I want to make sure that they remember your house. In this way I build up a witness pool.

John

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Posted : December 19, 2009 4:31 am
Linda J
(@Linda_J)
Expert

Rotorhead,

If you've been through investigations before, maybe you should re-evaluate your actions. I'm not saying you are breaking the law, but from your posts, you do sound confrontational. If your flying close to the the house is an annoyance to the owner, why not back off a little?

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Posted : December 19, 2009 8:22 am
divinggirl
(@divinggirl)
Trusted Member

Linda - you indicate that Rotor should "just back off a little". If Rotor is not breaking any laws why should he change?
I have flown with Rotor and can tell you that I am impressed by his focus on safety and following the rules.

I have a man next door who LOVES loud music - I don't. As long as it is not too early in the morning or late at night, it is not illegal. He has a right to enjoy his home and I mine. Should he have to stop listening to his music because it annoys me?

Many people are annoyed by the loud pipes of Harley's, should Harley riders stop riding or modify their bikes because it annoys people?
If we all stopped doing everything that annoyed other people what would be left for us to do?

I find it interesting that the complaints against Rotor are from "new waterfront homeowners". I read this as rich people who think we must all conform to their wishes. I once heard a man in a restaurant telling his companion that the guy in the green helicopter was peeking in his windows. I asked how he thought you could see into the windows of his home from a helicopter out over the water and his actual response was, "I didn't pay over 5 million dollars for my house to be bothered by some a**hole in a helicopter". My feeling is that you can't buy everything - get over yourself.

Rotor has a right to enjoy his helicopter just as my neighbor has a right to enjoy his music and you have a right to enjoy whatever it is that you do that annoys other people (within the confines of the law).

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Posted : December 19, 2009 12:02 pm
Jim72
(@Jim72)
Advanced Member

I have no problem with choppers. But they can scare the heck out of you on a boat if you do not see them coming. I was taking a family on a snorkel trip last year between congo and lovango, and the blue helicopter from stt came up from behind us. It was maybe 150-200 feet above the water. The sound was incredible when you are not expecting it. The was an elderly man on board, who was very shaken. i thought he was going to have a hard attack. , I like helicopters, Just don't approach from behind

P.s. I know it was not you rotor8-)

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Posted : December 19, 2009 12:28 pm
Lizard
(@Lizard)
Trusted Member

I drive a Harley, Stock original mufflers (legal). My neighbor has small children, I push the Bike a block away from her house before I start the bike in the early AM. She never asked me to do it, but common courtesy and being a good neighbor is important to me. I don't sit in the middle of a public street in front of her house and crank on it (that's Legal). The statement made by Rotorhead " Your house is now part of my island tour" sound's a little confrontational. Why agitate and aggravate. Linda J asked "Why not back off a little" Not Just back off. So at this point in time The FAA will decide on the merits of the complaint.

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Posted : December 19, 2009 1:09 pm
ColdWhether
(@ColdWhether)
Advanced Member

redacted because when you roll in the mud with pigs, you get dirty and the pig has fun.

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Posted : December 19, 2009 1:58 pm
terry
(@terry)
Expert

John,
How do I get on the list for a ride?8-)

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Posted : December 19, 2009 2:36 pm
Linda J
(@Linda_J)
Expert

Diving girl,

I wasn't speaking about laws, I was speaking about consideration for your fellow. The poster says that the chopper scares his children. Are your saying that, as long as the law is being followed, it's TS if the kids are scared? I hope not.

Courtesy is not about laws, it's about treating people well. Rotorhead also said that he is now TARGETING this home to his clients:

"Whenever I fly by your house I point it out to my passengers and ask them to note the house and our location over the water and altitude. I encourage them to take pictures and video of the house and point out to them that they might be contacted by the FAA as a witness. I want to make sure that they remember your house. In this way I build up a witness pool."

I find this to be unacceptable.

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Posted : December 19, 2009 3:17 pm
rotorhead
(@rotorhead)
Trusted Member

Diving girl,

I wasn't speaking about laws, I was speaking about consideration for your fellow. The poster says that the chopper scares his children. Are your saying that, as long as the law is being followed, it's TS if the kids are scared? I hope not.

Courtesy is not about laws, it's about treating people well. Rotorhead also said that he is now TARGETING this home to his clients:

"Whenever I fly by your house I point it out to my passengers and ask them to note the house and our location over the water and altitude. I encourage them to take pictures and video of the house and point out to them that they might be contacted by the FAA as a witness. I want to make sure that they remember your house. In this way I build up a witness pool."

I find this to be unacceptable.

I am not sure where you get the idea that I am TARGETING anybody. Those are your words not mine. I have not changed my flying habits one bit because of this discussion or Arlo's complaint. I am not flying by his house more or less than before. I am not flying closer or further away than before. All that I am doing is pointing the house out to my passengers when we fly by so that they are aware of our position relative to Arlo's house. I am sorry that you find this unacceptable but that is too bad. Note I said passengers, not clients like you said. You obviously don't know me but have a bias against me. Flying is my hobby. I also fly for the Coast Guard without compensation.

I do try to be considerate. I only fly in the afternoon, never in the early morning or at night. I fly over the water not over peoples houses. If I tried to accommodate all of the flying requests that people make I would have to give up flying and I have no plans to do that.

I try to be a good neighbor, I flew Santa into a children's party today. I have done this for the past 9 years, at the yacht club, the boy scout camp and the tennis club. I have flown into many of the public and private schools on island for career day. I fly the Police Department and DPNR at my own expense when they need helicopter support.

John,
How do I get on the list for a ride?8-)

I give rides to friends. I also donate rides to many of the local charity auctions or you can join the Coast Guard Auxiliary and train as a crew member.

You were flying by my house 4-5 times a day at low altitudes for weeks before I finally got irritated and started trying to contact you.

This is BS. I only fly 2-3 times a week, and only for an hour to an hour and a half each time. Anyone who knows me knows this. The controllers in the tower know this. And many of my flights are not around the east end. He is either hallucinating or is mistaking me for another helicopter. When people lie like this I do not take them seriously.

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Posted : December 19, 2009 8:38 pm
Lizard
(@Lizard)
Trusted Member

Hey Rotorhead,
Your statement of " Your house is now part of my island tour" What's that mean before the complaint or after the complaint?:S

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Posted : December 19, 2009 8:58 pm
rotorhead
(@rotorhead)
Trusted Member

Hey Rotorhead,
Your statement of " Your house is now part of my island tour" What's that mean before the complaint or after the complaint?:S

My island tour for my friends consists of about an hour and 15 minute flight around the coastline of St Croix. During this flight I point out various landmarks and locations. I point out all of the big hotels, the radio telescope, Cramer Park, Point Udall and other various locations.

Since Arlo's complaint I also point out his house and ask my passengers to pay attention to where we are with respect to his house. This is not an alteration of the flight path for my island tour, I have only added a new landmark.

Does that make things clear?

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Posted : December 19, 2009 9:08 pm
divinggirl
(@divinggirl)
Trusted Member

I know, from an air traffic controller, that the DEA had 4 different green helicopters on island at one time for over 2 weeks. They all flew at low levels all over the island for several hours a day. They received several complaints in the Air Traffic Control Tower about those helos and most were saying it was "the guy with the green helicopter". I'm guessing that ColdWether is mistaking Rotor for those helos.

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Posted : December 19, 2009 9:15 pm
Lizard
(@Lizard)
Trusted Member

Rotorhead,
It didn't come across that way on your post. I would suggest that you have someone proof your written answers on the FAA investigation.:D

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Posted : December 19, 2009 9:35 pm
Lizard
(@Lizard)
Trusted Member

Hey Rotorhead,
Here is another thing that might be troublesome, Aerial Peeping Tom, violating the expected privacy when one is at his home. These people are not public figures and expect a certain amount of privacy, there may be some criminal wrong doing there on your part.:-o

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Posted : December 19, 2009 11:05 pm
ColdWhether
(@ColdWhether)
Advanced Member

If that REALLY is the case and you genuinely only fly 2-3 times per week then it is POSSIBLE that coincidentally when I looked UP from the pool at you and your passenger (you're a 50'sish year old white guy, not skinny but not fat, wearing what look like ray bans and a golf shirt) that it was a different helicopter the other 3 times each of those days.

You weren't over the water, you were over my property and you were cutting over my garage... my house is on a hill on a point.

You can't make sharp turns, you werent coming from udall's point down the coast line, you were coming from the south, went over the storage facility, and then made a relatively steep turn around the point but every single time i saw it, you were cutting OVER the point so that you could follow the coast line down.

I understand the desire not to stay out over open water in a chopper, but I'm pretty sure that like most people you are not infallible. I'm not suggesting that what you did was INTENTIONAL, whether it is an airspace violation or not it's friggin RUDE.

I don't care about the NOISE, I don't care about SEEING helicopters, I like aviation, i'm a fan, I think helicopters are really cool, I ride in them for short commutes in the north east, I enjoy taking tours in them, I have nothing against helicopters or helicopters on st croix. This is not about you violating the tranquility of a view or anything, it's about SCARING people. It's not nice, it's rude, it's pointless and I'm pretty sure that because of the layout of the point that I'm on that I may be the only house that you get that close to just because of the practicality of the turn.

When you fly down the coast line from the east you stay over the water and not over my house.

The other videos and photos are not on a public server but in this video you were being perfectly safe, and not bothering me personally... why not just do THIS every time you fly by my house? Why not just stay along the coast line outside of the bluffs instead of cutting over them, it won't cost you anything in gas or views or time.

http://static.icall.com/personal/FlyBy.mov

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Posted : December 20, 2009 2:01 pm
Michaelds9
(@Michaelds9)
Advanced Member

I haven't met John. He has however been extremely helpful to my sanity by sending me unsolicited vids and pics of my boat letting me know she was safe when I couldn't be there to care for her. My experience in life suggests someone who goes out of his way to help a total stranger is not likely to torment someone for kicks. Life experience as a parent also suggests that the reaction of children tends to imitate their parents. I used to live in the traffic pattern of a busy county airport and flew out of it on occasion. When something flew directly overhead I would point it out to my kids and say "wow isn't that cool ! " and they did not grow to fear low flying aircraft but to enjoy seeing them. I would guess it costs about $200/hr to operate John's helo and it does seem from what I read here he is generous with his use of it helping the community. I recall several requests here for island vids. I'm also certain John is not going to risk his ticket, life, or helo operating in an unsafe manner just to aggravate someone.

(not that it is the case here but it always amazes me that people will build a home next to an airport or a drag strip and then want it shut down because of noise).

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Posted : December 20, 2009 6:42 pm
Linda J
(@Linda_J)
Expert

Michael, I'mnot sure where on STX you live, the the area in question is nowhere near an airport.

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Posted : December 21, 2009 1:40 pm
Michaelds9
(@Michaelds9)
Advanced Member

Linda I'm sorry for mixing reply's and the confusion that act causes. My bad. (td)

The remark ;

(not that it is the case here but it always amazes me that people will build a home next to an airport or a drag strip and then want it shut down because of noise).

was aimed at this type of behavior; "I didn't pay over 5 million dollars for my house to be bothered by some a**hole in a helicopter". that I observed in Ohio. People somehow thought building or buying an expensive home somehow transcended the rights of people established long before their arrival. I'm on the boat in C'sted and I don't enjoy the "noise" coming out of multiple establishments but they were there first.....

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Posted : December 21, 2009 2:30 pm
Lizard
(@Lizard)
Trusted Member

Hey Michael,
If you're in the Christiansted habor you can say "wow Look at that every half hour" With Seaborn comming and going during the day time!:@)

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Posted : December 21, 2009 3:06 pm
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