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Corrupt Officials: Do the locals care?

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Anonymous
 Anonymous
(@Anonymous)
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I read a post yesterday about the advertised crime emanating from the police. The lady writing was concerned about the amount of corruption/crime and the lack of action on the islanders part. I must agree. To an outsider, the daily reports of very scary situations and the deplorable handling of them is enough to turn away visitors and potential residents alike. It's no wonder to me that the cruise lines pulled out. I just have a very hard time believing that in such a corrupt and depressing society, people who live there aren't more up in arms demanding new attorney generals, resignations and charges being pressed on people who not only commit crimes, but on any person or situation that may tarnish a good reputation. The number of ongoing federal investigations is proof that there is at least the appearance of impropriety and more liekly widespread and rampant corruption within the government. Do the locals care? If they do, do they vote? If they do, how can obviously corrupt officials continue to hold the highest positions? anyway, just thinking out loud what i've wondered for years now.

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Posted : December 7, 2005 7:03 pm
Linda J
(@Linda_J)
Expert

Do you care that the government in Washington has corrupt people in it? What do you do about it? Read any local paper in any state in the US -- The Courier Journal, in my home state of Kentucky, has written numerous stories this year about corruption in state government hiring. To date, I don't see an uprising among Kentuckians.

My personal opinion is that most people don't give a darn as long as they are not personally affected.

And yes we vote, just as you probably do. And we usually wind up voting for the lesser of two evils -- sound familiar?

Problems in a small isolated area like the VI do stand out, but I fear we are no better or worse than many areas of the country.

My 2 cents.

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Posted : December 7, 2005 7:39 pm
jnrhome
(@jnrhome)
Advanced Member

I'm very aware that the world in general is full of corrupt people in positions of power. I suppose that VI is more self-contained than kentucky or other stateside places. As such, the residents of the islands are more susceptible to the effects of that corruption. For instance: if you live in Kentucky and don't like the political BS, you can always move to another state. This process does not include shipping your household wares thousands of miles! It's much easier to relocate and keep your job, etc. I lived on the border of ohio and michigan for many years and found myself amidst many people who live in ohio but work in michigan to reduce by a substantial amount their property taxes. This arrangement is possible because there isn't a thousand miles of ocean between the two places. Additionally, you can keep your michigan identity whilst living in ohio. For someone who is born and raised on most islands, these options aren't available. When I read the papers from USVI, I cannot compare the events reported to another small town of similar population, rather, I have to compare it more to usa today which reports on the country as a whole. Despite the efforts to incorporate USVI as just another place in the states, it cannot be that way and certainly isn't reported that way. I guess I thought that the people who experience this corruption are much closer to its' source and would be more affected by it and more impassioned to act. It's a shame to draw a conclusion about such a beautiful place based on what the papers say because they just can't begin to describe the wealth of honest, friendly people who are only trying to live their lives. Anyway, just my thoughts...

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Posted : December 7, 2005 7:52 pm
dntw8up
(@dntw8up)
Trusted Member

jnrhome,

The reasons why it is challenging to fight government corruption on island are somewhat different for blacks and whites. Many black people are reticent to rock the boat because either they benefit in some small way from government corruption or they know someone who benefits. Many white people are reticent to lobby for change because political action by whites is often construed as whites trying to change island culture (though attacking government corruption hardly seems to me like desecrating a cherished cultural attribute.) Regardless of your skin tone, political action can make you a target and given that the corruption runs deep and includes law enforcement, you may find yourself with a serious problem if you speak up. The island social fabric is complex; whites and blacks coexist but lack a level of trust that is necessary for them to become political allies. Perhaps our islands are most like the mainland in that our staunchly Christian island community pays lip service to devoutly following the principles of Christianity while simultaneously tolerating widespread government corruption!

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Posted : December 7, 2005 8:47 pm
jnrhome
(@jnrhome)
Advanced Member

I mostly agree with your post, dnt..., however, as my first hand experience on the island is quite limited, I may be naive. I spent ten days there last year and saw it as a racially integrated society with no overt racial tension. Part of my concern in visiting there and in moving there is that I will be part of the white minority. Never having lived as a member of a minority, I had some concerns about mingling with the locals. My experience there was vastly different than my expectations. I found the locals to be very pleasant, very accepting of me and at no time during my visit, tho I visited some very local(read not white) establishments, did I get the impression that anyone even gave me a second look. All of the interactions with locals left me with the impression that I could be very comfortable and duly accepted in this society. I have a two year old brown eyed, blonde daughter who will be raised there and I would never even consider it if I thought she would be treated any differently than anyone else. My family growing up was quite bigoted and I never even knew any black people until I jioned the army. Once there, I was freaked out completely by having a 6'6" 250lb. black guy as my roomie. Once the inital shock wore off, I found him to be nothing like my parents feared. On the contrary, we are still friends some 20 years after the fact. I'm sure there must be a certain amount of black/white issue, but we are all people who, on the island, must live in close proximity and we really cannot afford to divide ourselves from any true allies simply because of color. As such, I can't believe that racial divides prohibit common goals like exposing and reducing corruption. You make good points about the motivations of each group, however, the benefits gained from corruption cannot possibly outweigh the dtreiments. In a society that has issues such as high poverty, high crime, crumbling infrastructure, etc., all people must band together to fight the problems. When high up gov't people siphon funds from community programs, it affects everyone, black and white.

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Posted : December 7, 2005 9:44 pm
dntw8up
(@dntw8up)
Trusted Member

j,

It's not that any "racial divide" prohibits common goals but rather the goals are not common. What a mainlander (usually white) thinks needs fixing, an islander (usually black) accepts as normal. For the island government to become less corrupt, islanders would have to execute the change and thus far this has not happened. A white mainlander decrying the state of affairs on a predominantly black governed island is tantamount to whites suggesting blacks aren't doing a good enough job and whites could do it better. The "high poverty, high crime" you note is only "high" relative to what you are comparing it to i.e. crime here is high compared to Lewsiburg, PA and low compared to Detroit, MI. If the island government and all its imperfections is all you know then it is the way you expect government to be and you don't appreciate anyone telling you your expectations are too low. Furthermore, many islanders feel that until mainlanders elect a Federal government with which islanders can be proud to be affiliated it seems ludicrous for mainlanders (whites) to suggest how islanders (blacks) govern themselves.

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Posted : December 7, 2005 10:14 pm
Ronnie
(@ronnie)
Trusted Member

Let's get something straight. We local folk don't pay any bribes. It's those that come here that hear it's the only way to do business and offer to pay to get things done. If you don't do it, you will still get what you need done. No one has ever asked me for any money to do things they are being paid to do. Not a black/white issue but a from here/from elsewhere issue.

RL

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Posted : December 7, 2005 10:31 pm
jnrhome
(@jnrhome)
Advanced Member

Well, I live in Port Clinton, Oh. About 15,000 people. Halfway between Toledo and Cleveland, We are definitely rural. I guess living in a small community makes you feel about like living on an island. You know your neighbors by name, your kids play together, bla bla... our local newspaper carries no corruption, no rampant crime, the police blotter usually carries cats in trees and the like. I see the island as another small community in which people do get along well and are concerned with the quality of their environments. I do relate the two communities as at least similar. If our police officers beat and molested a schoolgirl in her classroom, the community would go ballistic. People here are occasionally arrested for willfully eluding police. They have never been shot at, much less shot up. If our local government "discovered" 60 million extra, the community would demand the head of the accountant responsible. I can't be sure about any of these events since I did not experience them and am only seeing what the paper reports. The lack of outcry by the residents, the AG, the governer, the inaction of the people in power certainly raises serious questions about the governing ability of the current system and administration. The intercedence of the feds regarding hate crimes, fiscal responsibility, police brutality, etc., signals real issues that people there have to live with. It seems that this would culminate in public outcry, resignations and convictions. This is considered business as usual and I find that difficult to grasp.

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Posted : December 7, 2005 10:37 pm
dntw8up
(@dntw8up)
Trusted Member

j,

Like Ronnie, I have never been asked to pay a bribe and I have never offered to do so.

We have all read about the incidents you mention but the island government is not transparent and the local information dissemination services are not reliably accurate. Nevertheless, there is usually some truth to what is reported but to whom do you suggest residents express their concerns? When corruption is pervasive the means to fight it are also corrupted.

You may see similarities between Port Clinton, OH and the USVI but I suspect that they are far more different than alike. The islands are a wonderful place to call home but like a spouse they come with imperfections. You can try to change them but most attempts to do so fail and end unhappily (in divorce if its a marriage, in returning to the mainland if its a relocation.)

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Posted : December 7, 2005 11:16 pm
STT Resident
(@STT_Resident)
Trusted Member

jnrhome: I can't relate to your thinking that your rural area of Ohio is in any way similar to any of the U.S.Virgin Islands.

If you perceive that either those "bahn-here" or longtime residents are either accepting of or complacent about government corruption, crime, domestic abuse or anything else, then I can only think that you're not reading any of our printed news sources in depth.

We certainly do have a lot to worry about in our community. It's a far cry from not all that many years ago when you left your doors unlocked without fearing burglary, could walk the dark streets at night without worry and the police blotter carried - as you say that in your community it does now - the "retrieving cat from tree" sort of incident. Your community, as is typical of many small American communities, has probably remained pretty much the same over the same number of years - thus far.

Conversely, the U.S. Virgin Islands have developed in leaps and bounds and continue to do so, the crime rate has risen on a parallel, the educational system continues to fail the children and the police department gets bogged down.

However, reverting back to my first point, people here certainly do care, and are continuously asking questions and seeking solutions. You can observe this first-hand at town meetings and in the media where people express their viewpoints in editorials, letters to the editor and online forums. Such expressions don't necessarily make headline news but they are certainly there.

You're comparing apples and oranges which are both fruits but are totally dissimilar in colour, texture and taste.

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Posted : December 8, 2005 12:08 am
Linda J
(@Linda_J)
Expert

Yes it's unfortunate that there are problems with the government here. And criticism, when it comes from people who don't live here or who have only lived here a short time (like me) is resented by those who were born here or have lived here a long time. And tunderstandably so.

I've heard a saying since I've been here "it is what it is". It's appropriate for many situations. For example:

Funny story. When Ric brought home the Sunday Avis, there were no Sunday funnies. Ric assumed he dropped them or they fell out of the paper before he bought it. I bought the paper today, Wednesday, and guess what? There were the funnies. For some reason they were not available until today.

It is what it is.

And as DNT says, you either love it or leave it. Or you drive yourself crazy trying to change things, which is pretty hard. I've been married 38 years and I still can't go to the bathroom in the middle of the night without checking the position of the toilet seat.

It is what it is.

We don't have daily mail or paper delivery. Many people take their own garbage to the dump. We lose power often (for short periods, thank you WAPA) We drive on the left in cars made to drive on the right, with headlights adjusted for right-side driving.

It is what it is.

And my comment about Kentucky was not that their government is corrupt, I don't believe it's any worse than any other state government. That was my point.

But hey, I spent my day off sitting on a chaise, under a tree, reading a book at Chenay Bay. The breeze was blowing and the air was warm and soft. And the bar was open. Talk about the opiate of the masses -- who said that?

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Posted : December 8, 2005 12:32 am
jnrhome
(@jnrhome)
Advanced Member

I thank all the insightful residents who have enlightened me with first-hand knowledge. I meant no provocation. My mental meanderings do consider that the news is not the place to reap the true story of a place. It seems i've hit a nerve. Questioning the commitment of any resident to improving their community is bound to twist a few tails. Since my first-hand knowledge of STX is quite limited, I was probing for more than what the paper gives me. As dnt... points out the attitudes of residents at town meeting forums are aligned properly with what should be. This is encouraging. As Ronnie points out that he has never bribed anyone to do their job, it seems that your own message board carries several examples of the contrary. Most recently a post about licensing motorcycles. I'm sure, like anywhere that is not the norm but certainly around. I can also remember a post about getting a po box was impossible without an accompanying local. I thought at the time I read it that it was to reduce the number of transient tourists taking needed boxes from residents. After reading the motorcycle post, I reconsidered that position. At every turn in the online info i've found, i've tried to put myself in the place of the people there. I'm not accusing anyone of anything, just trying to get a better grasp of the daily grind. After reading the available sources for almost three years now, the picture that is painted of a wonderful place seems dangerous and not to be visited. Had I not been there myself and experienced it first-hand, I might have believed the former. In trying to reconcile what i know and what i read, there must be additional input to bridge the severe gap in what I know to be true and what I read. This group of people has warmed me with their passion on the subject. It means that I will be surrounded by people who care about their environment. That is what I was looking for; passion. It is too bad that the available resources create a vision of ugliness. I know that s**t happens and "it is what it is" my original post was one of sympathy for the lady who was scared by what she read. It was a feeling that I had more than once while reading the papers. I can;t help but wonder how much business(tourist $$) is lost annually by that perception and how the influx of that money would aid the cause of improving things. From my perspective, the online news is the territories own worst enemy and maybe if there were a few more "citizens take action" stories and a few more AG indicts so and so for bla bla, and a few less cop beats old lady stories, the perception may be less skewed.

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Posted : December 8, 2005 1:35 am
dntw8up
(@dntw8up)
Trusted Member

j,

The recent motorcycle registration post to which you refer does not refer to a bribe. Some residents hire individuals to do things for them, like register their car, and if they choose the right someone (an individual who knows an employee who works in registration) they can bypass some customary requirements. You can register a motorcycle yourself but you will have to stand in lines all day unless you too know someone.

The PO Box thread you may be referring to was that someone went to open a box, was told there weren't any available, reported this to their landlord and the landlord took them back to the post office where a box magically became available. Again, this did not require a bribe. Some employees of some establishments are lazy. This is true the world over and appears to have been the case is this instance.

I don't think these examples "create a vision of ugliness." The island is actually a lot like the mainland "old boy's network" in that it is often a matter of who you know and what they think of you!

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Posted : December 8, 2005 1:54 am
Anonymous
 Anonymous
(@Anonymous)
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The "old boy network" may not necessarily be a bribe per se but it does underline shady business dealings. You should be able to go to any governmental agency such as a post office or a license bureau and "wait your turn" and expect to obtain your license/registration or post office box just like the guy in front of you. It shouldn't matter who you know...why does it there? There is something really really wrong with that. The USVI is part of the US. It's in the name. Hello...it's the U.S.

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Posted : December 8, 2005 2:09 am
Linda J
(@Linda_J)
Expert

Baloney! This is totally the "American" way. Three examples:

EXAMPLE 1

Your car is making a funny noise. You call Morty, the guy who's been fixing your cars since high school

"Morty, this is Melissa. Howyadoin? My car is making a really odd noise. Can you look at it today?"

"Hi Melissa. Gosh I'm so busy today. Can you bring it over tomorrow?"

"I have to drive to Cleveland tomorrow. Please fit me in today!"

"Ok, bring it over now and I'll have a look."

And my car sits while Morty looks at yours.

EXAMPLE 2 - no more dialogue, you get the idea.

You go downtown to the DMV to get new tags. Your neighbor, Sarah works in the DMV - why not say hi? You get there and don't see Sarah, so you ask at the infomation desk if she's working. She's in the back eating lunch, but she comes out to say hello. Oh, you need your tags, Do you have all the paperwork? Yes. And Sarah interrupts her lunch to get your tags.

While I still wait in line.

NUMBER 3

We're both stopped by a policeman for having a tail light out. Gee, it's your cousin John. If either of us gets a citation for malfunctioning equipment, which one of us do you think it will be?

This happens everywhere, everyday. And if you don't think it does...

In the VI, as is the case everywhere, being connected, having a network around you, makes things easier.

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Posted : December 8, 2005 12:04 pm
jnrhome
(@jnrhome)
Advanced Member

Absolutely Linda. This is the way of the world. My references to corruption were not about the daily hey bob things. I was talking about no-bid contracts for huge government deals that affect a broad section of the population, using emergency powers to fix things that they let go bad. Poor planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part. If you have no maintainence budget and you let your car run out of oil, you can't call the insurance company to have it replaced. I can cite another example. In the paper i think last week,there was an article about a government contractor who had received a no-bid deal. The company received multiple payouts although no work had been performed. Upon further examination, the company was basically ficticious using the names of reputable people to get the contract but without the means to perform the work. The government continues disbursing funds to them anyway. If I took a contract to build a house, never showed, or performed any services for the owner, do you think I would get a second disbursement? While I can understand that a smart, devious group could manipulate the system enough to secure the contract and get the first payment, that should be where the fraud is discovered and the contract terminated. The AG would then begin prosecution for fraud. Instead, the VI Gov't says nothing, investigates nothing and continues to issue checks for hundreds of thousands of dollars. The worst part is that the work sits and nothing gets done. Everybody knows somebody and the relationships you build with people streamline your individual lives. That is much different than out and out fraud and deception. I think some of posts have gotten away from my original thoughts and into areas that are not relevant. While they are thoughtful, they don't apply to the coorruption and apparent ambivalence of residents.

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Posted : December 8, 2005 1:50 pm
Anonymous
 Anonymous
(@Anonymous)
Guest

gosh jnr..

Those no bid problems are terrible and cost all of us in many ways.

I brings to mind the real frauds, crooks and shysters... I am talking about ...Dick Cheney, George Bush..etc Who are stealing billions of dollars from us through their friends companies (Halliburton for one).

And all of this in the name of fighting for our freedom or helping the poor storm survivors.

We should all be outraged and do something.

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Posted : December 8, 2005 4:13 pm
buttercup
 buttercup
(@buttercup)
Guest

I feel that a civil uprising is inevitable. Let's get er done!

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Posted : December 8, 2005 4:30 pm
jnrhome
(@jnrhome)
Advanced Member

now buttercup, i'm not suggesting civil disobedience, nor do I think it's warranted. But to say "it is what it is" underlines my point. Not only does this exist, but residents know it and accept it. Certainly Bush and his cronies have made billions off of the american people from things like the war. Are you equating what Bush has done with the things that happen in VI? I am not pro-bush but I can say that at least he has a pathetic excuse to justify his actions. The VI gov't simply ignores it all and continues on. The residents of the islands may care very deeply about the incidents mentioned, and I've learned through some of these posts that it is in their minds to find a solution. My question becomes: What is being accomplished towards that goal? Nothing happens by itself and complacency will certainly breed continued corruption. As long as people have the attitude that individuals cannot make a difference, ammoral people will run over the masses with zeal.

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Posted : December 8, 2005 7:27 pm
Linda J
(@Linda_J)
Expert

Again, in this respect the VI is no different than where ever you live. What are you doing in your own backyard? With all due respect, that is where you should expend your concern and your energy.

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Posted : December 8, 2005 8:21 pm
islandjoan
 islandjoan
(@islandjoan)
Guest

Here's an editorial about corruption from today's VI Source online:
http://www.onepaper.com/stcroixvi/?v=d&i=&s=Commentary%3AEditorials&p=1131772844

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Posted : December 9, 2005 11:52 am
Max
 Max
(@Max)
Advanced Member

I am a mainlander who lives in the VI, and agree with j that we do not do enough to change the status quo. The crime, education and infrastructure conditions are poor - poorer than they should be. As we used to say in New Mexico, the government is either corrupt or incompetent, or maybe both, and changes are desparately needed. There are many locals, hopefully the majority, who agree with this and together we should be able to address the problems. I for one have not done enough, and am looking for ways to help (Rotary, Navy League, tutoring, STT Rescue, etc.). Maybe we can slowly restore this paradise to what it should be.

Max

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Posted : December 9, 2005 1:45 pm
jnrhome
(@jnrhome)
Advanced Member

thank you, Max. I had just resigned myself to the idea that "it is what it is" and was quite disappointed. I will be moving to STX in January and I will be doing in addition to talking. I run a small consulting business in Ohio and I got my "break" by volunteering my services to handicapped seniors in my area. I intend to do the same there. It was a way for me to build a reputation here, and it allowed me to showcase my abilities while simultaneously helping a selection of people who desperately needed it. Business has been good and the people that I originally began helping for free have become quite liberated. Being confined to home or a wheelchair as a senior citizen slowly takes the person from the body and my services helped these people "get out" into the world and socialize, shop, learn, ... Live again. My original clients collectively met mates, earned degrees, published books, found lost relatives, etc. because I took the time to help them adapt to their limitations and overcome them. I believe in giving to society as repayment for society giving to me. When I see people taking advantage it negates my efforts. I read in the papers there about good people giving to their community in a multitude of ways and it warms my heart. As I said, these efforts are offset by a few in power who abuse their positions. The good that some provide is diminished by the bad that a few propogate. It seems to me that one of the easiest and most effective ways to help all is to reduce or eliminate those who undermine the efforts of the good. Much like life, in this thread it took many posts denying, justifying, indignation, in order to hear that maybe, as a resident, someone could do more, someone can make a difference. I imagine that it is like that in the minds of many residents. Denial, justification, indignation, resignation... ACTION.

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Posted : December 9, 2005 2:29 pm
Islander
(@the-islander)
Member Moderator

Hello jnrhome,

Community Service...

You can find a list of Community Organizations in the VI at: http://www.cfvi.net/ (click on downloads and choose Community Service Directory).

Corruption...

You wrote: “I guess I thought that the people who experience this corruption are much closer to it’s' source and would be more affected by it and more impassioned to act.”

Someone replied that “people are reticent to rock the boat because either they benefit in some small way from government corruption or they know someone who benefits”.

It seems that the latter message got lost in the dialogue so I am sharing a story to reinforce that statement.

Jack worked for several years in an office where the employees were like…. a community. As time progressed things happened at the workplace that weren’t liked... 'corrupt' things. For some time Jack had heard co-workers talk about lack of insurance and the possibility that some had, while others didn't. There came a day when a health insurance person called and Jack knew who had insurance by the end of the conversation. Jack went to all the employees and said lets group together and demand it be offered to all... the mood changed. The same people that had complained about not having it were now completely passive. The first guy came and said 'you know my wife's job offers insurance and I am on her plan and so I don't really care'... someone else came and said 'I have insurance through the company, but you know that now, so I don't want to say anything' and so forth and so on. A few months later raises had been promised and not materialized and again Jack went to talk to the employees and again there was a silence and again one by one they came forward and said 'you know I get a little money on the side in addition to my paycheck so I don't want to say anything' and 'I asked for a loan from the boss so I don't want to say anything that might jeopardize my request'. Months later another issue came up; sales commissions were not being paid to the sales people. Jack gathered the employees and the first thing heard was 'I really don't want to make waves, I have kids, mortgage etc.'. All signed the petition to strike but most said they wouldn’t strike when the time came. Other things came up as time past and the reactions were always the same... I don’t want to make waves; I am getting my due so I don't want to say anything about it, I don’t want to lose my job.

Now take this story and multiply it many times. The government is the store owner, some of the employees are getting 'extra' or maybe a family member got a job they weren't qualified for... or perhaps they don't work for the government but own a private business, a 'made up' or a legit one, that gets government contracts. Or maybe they are just afraid of being a potential target for speaking out.

2000 census… the number of people working in the VI was 46,565 of which 11,394 are government employees. That’s almost 25%. That means basically everyone in the USVI has a friend, an acquaintance or a family member that works for the government. Can you hear the amount of voices saying 'I don't want to make waves'? The corruption is a cycle.

All this aside, there is hope. There are some that care. There are people who are qualified to do their jobs and do it well and care. There are people that would stand up and some that already do.

There is an interesting book called Rape of the American Virgins by Edward O’Neil. It was written in 1972 and the introduction reads:

“This book’s title tells its story: what skyrocketing tourism, reckless and untrammeled growth, myopic money-making, and feckless government have done to the US Virgin Islands, self proclaimed “American Paradise”. Twenty years ago, the Virgins were a pocket of poverty with tropical charm. Today, they are enjoying an extraordinary economic boom fueled by the dollars of millions of visitors a year. The charm is fast disappearing. Poverty lingers for some, while the politicians and smart-money boys – Virgin islanders and statesiders alike – pocket extraordinary profits.”

Does this description still fit 33 years later?

--Islander

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Posted : December 9, 2005 11:01 pm
jnrhome
(@jnrhome)
Advanced Member

Islander- Not sure what you're getting at. I believe the charm of the islands is still quite intact. The government is far too large and the effect of that is widespread. Smaller government, which is one of the hallmarks of republicanism would certainly aid in reducing corruption, though it is much like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. The poverty is still there. Perhaps, it has grown,not sure of the figures, though the amount of government housing is startling. I imagine that the government has grown because of the influx of both federal dollars and tourist money. It is an effective way to deal with some poverty, but, as you say, creates an environment in which everybody works under the auspices of a single man. If this man were truly good, the current state of affairs would certainly be better or at least improving. Since the islands experiences more than the mean of poverty, violent crime, reported corruption, illiteracy, one can only conclude that the single man is not good. I realize these are simplistic terms and concepts, but I wish to be clear rather than eloquent. 33 years after your quoted description of USVI,it seems that the islands have changed substantially and the description is no longer accurate. Is it better? I reserve judgement pending my move in January. I will certainly move forward with the plans to relocate my family and will be looking for some things once there. It would be a pleasure to get together with the respondents of this post and create a plan of action that might address these "broad concepts" in detail with an eye towards affecting improvement.

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Posted : December 10, 2005 1:22 am
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