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De Jongh arrested

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monogram
(@monogram)
Advanced Member

The fact is that every single VI governor since Juan Luis, one after another, has been either charged with or convicted on criminal offenses. If you'd like to dispute this, I welcome your take on it.

Astounding if true!!!

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Posted : August 18, 2015 7:56 pm
OldTart
(@the-oldtart)
Expert

am curious as to where you came up with this ""Yo ain' bahn ya" tribal game

Hey, I heard this from you, as you relentlessly repeat it, when you don't have anything else to say! The more stale it becomes, the funnier it sounds.

Rather than flapping your gums, please provide citations.

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Posted : August 18, 2015 8:19 pm
OldTart
(@the-oldtart)
Expert

The fact is that every single VI governor since Juan Luis, one after another, has been either charged with or convicted on criminal offenses. If you'd like to dispute this, I welcome your take on it.

Astounding if true!!!

Not true. The poster seems to suffer some delusion of grandeur, believing that whatever he decides to write on a public forum is to be accepted as fact. He has no clue what he's talking about.

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Posted : August 18, 2015 8:28 pm
Alana33
(@alana33)
Expert
longhorn
(@longhorn)
Advanced Member

I'm just a bit confused. How can the Department of Justice create a legal opinion deeming the expenditure lawful and then charge the Governor with a crime for the same activity. This appears to be a conflict and the Office should be legally barred from such an action. A special prosecutor should've been appointed to remove the legal bar to prosecution.

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Posted : August 19, 2015 2:34 am
monogram
(@monogram)
Advanced Member

I'm just a bit confused. How can the Department of Justice create a legal opinion deeming the expenditure lawful and then charge the Governor with a crime for the same activity. This appears to be a conflict and the Office should be legally barred from such an action. A special prosecutor should've been appointed to remove the legal bar to prosecution.

We've got a thinker here! Kudos! It seems almost ex post facto in nature.

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Posted : August 19, 2015 2:35 am
MissJusticeLaughsLast
(@MissJusticeLaughsLast)
Active Member

The Department of Justice cannot create opinions.
The Attorney General of the DOJ can submit ARGUMENTS, not opinions.
Only courts give opinions, less confusingly known as RULINGS.
DeJongh's AJ allegedly gave him advice which if he fought it to court it would be an argument.
If that advice is wrong, and deJongh committed a crime based on that advice, that deJongh pays the price, and he has the option to sue the former AJ for providing ad legal advice.
If deJongh had already committed a crime, like getting the half built guest house to be refunded by the tax payers by diverting appropriated road money, and then asked his appointed AJ to write an argument after the fact.....

Meanwhile, the current DOJ AG apparently disagrees with the previous advice given and has submitted a new argument to the court.

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Posted : August 19, 2015 6:52 am
Alana33
(@alana33)
Expert

I wouldn't be so quick to be laughing last.

This is being handled by the local VI AG, the 4th in a series, appointed in 8 months by Gov. Mapp. Had this been a combined local and Federal effort, considering the indictments that have resulted from the hard work of the Feds peeling back the layers of corruption infesting the VI Government, originating from Senator Alvin Williams case, the arrest of DeJongh may have had more far reaching results had it been handled by the Feds. As it stands, it's the VIAG, jumping the gun and trotting out a dog and pony show and will jeopardize any case the Feds may have been building. What's the rush? Dejongh admitted the money was used inappropriately, attempted to repay the money as he said he would at the appraised evaluation, had Mapp not accept the check and now this?

Hope Mapp realizes that what's good for the goose is good for the gander as his spending of public funds, will far outstrip Dejongh's Mafoligate fiasco, if it hasn't already, in the short time he's been Monarch, I mean, governor.

As monogram has pointed out, the local AG's office has lost many cases that should have been a slam dunk. Smoke and mirrors for a $10,000.00 fine? Gimme a break.

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Posted : August 19, 2015 9:52 am
OldTart
(@the-oldtart)
Expert

Mr Walker was barely installed as a nominee before he popped the little prince crown atop his noggin and bent down to polish Mr Mapp's Italian leather shoes with his sycophantic saliva.

It's one of those bizarre scenarios where all you can do is roll around on the floor laughing hysterically and holding hard onto your sides to prevent your guts from spilling out.

How many AGs are nominated before one is installed? Given the current attrition rate there may not be one approved during Mr Mapp's whole term but the new King is likely hoping that the attention of the masses will be sufficiently deflected that his request for that new fleet of "necessary" vehicles will sail through unchallenged. Silly little man.

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Posted : August 19, 2015 10:17 am
speee1dy
(@speee1dy)
Expert

i have a feeling that DeJongh will be laughing as he walks away from court.

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Posted : August 19, 2015 10:33 am
Alana33
(@alana33)
Expert

From the STT Source article:
"Walker said deJongh and Francis both face imprisonment of not more than 10 years and a fine of not more than $10,000, or both, if convicted on charges of embezzlement and failing to pay back public funds.

http://stthomassource.com/content/news/local-news/2015/08/18/ag-nominee-charges-dejongh-embezzlement

So how's that work if deJongh attempted to pay it back months prior to his arrest and the money was refused by Mapp?

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Posted : August 19, 2015 10:35 am
speee1dy
(@speee1dy)
Expert

exactly , thats why i think he will be laughing on his way out of the court. he tried, they refused.

how is that his fault?

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Posted : August 19, 2015 10:36 am
Alana33
(@alana33)
Expert
monogram
(@monogram)
Advanced Member

The Department of Justice cannot create opinions.
The Attorney General of the DOJ can submit ARGUMENTS, not opinions.
Only courts give opinions, less confusingly known as RULINGS.

That's just wrong. Attorneys General (state and fed) regularly issue opinions of law that are binding on government agencies absent contrary court rulings.

VI CODE: The AG must "keep books in which he shall record all the official opinions given by him during his term of office, and deliver the same to his successor in office."

The previous AGs opinion to DeJongh was an official one. It is BINDING on government agencies including the DOJ. Because Walker is merely a NOMINEE, he cannot reverse binding Attorney General opinions before he is confirmed. This is more than a dog and pony show. This is a miscarriage of justice.

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Posted : August 19, 2015 7:46 pm
speee1dy
(@speee1dy)
Expert

i actually agree with you again monogram

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Posted : August 19, 2015 7:52 pm
monogram
(@monogram)
Advanced Member

It should offend the VI public that our government is prepared to spend millions on a prosecution that can only net a maximum of $10k back to the coffers of the VI. The government was better off initiating a civil action to obtain a court order forcing DeJongh to repay the $400k. But that's: (1) far less salacious, and (2) completely unneeded, as JDJ has already agreed to repay and tried to settle the debt. Further, it doesn't serve Mapp's overarching vindictive purpose--to fulfill his campaign promise of arresting JDJ while distracting the public from his equally unlawful spending.

Mapp is living in an expensive hotel along with his security entourage. Schneider was charged with fraud over a much smaller hotel bill.

I fear that we will turn into a Banana Republic in which all outgoing governors must flee the territory or risk arrest by their successors. This is exacerbated by the fact that Mapp actually campaigned on arresting JDJ. This is not good for democracy here in the VI.

Interesting that the arrest warrant was signed by Judge Dunston, a two-time appointee of JDJ. His second appointment came in 2013, several YEARS after JDJ's Mafoliegate was exposed, and THREE YEARS after the federal inspector general found the expenditures to be illegal. Presumably, he found the actions illegal then , as he does now. it is interesting that he had no issue with accepting re-appointment by a governor whose actions he presumably knew were illegal.

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Posted : August 19, 2015 8:10 pm
Alana33
(@alana33)
Expert

Actually, it was Elliot Davis, acting AG that gave Dejongh the opinion on his "repurposing" highway funds for his mafoliegate debacle, not Vincent Frazier tho he was AG at the time.

Now, we have Mapp repurposing public funds via a backdoor deal with WICO (which his chief of staff, Randy Knight presides), with no legislative approval, in lieu of paying their back taxes of millions of dollars, to pay for his exorbitant rental of a private residence owned by the owner of a company that gets many of their government contracts thru VIWMA. Hauling waste to the dump must be exceedingly lucrative.

I hope that VIWMA will one day soon fall under the watchful eye of our IG. There's another can of worms waiting to be opened there.

Good post monogram.

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Posted : August 19, 2015 8:16 pm
monogram
(@monogram)
Advanced Member

Actually, it was Elliot Davis, acting AG that gave Dejongh the opinion on his "repurposing" highway funds for his mafoliegate debacle, not Vincent Frazier tho he was AG at the time.

Now, we have Mapp repurposing public funds via a backdoor deal with WICO, with no legislative approval, in lieu of paying their back taxes of millions of dollars, to pay for his exorbitant rental of a private residence owned by the owner of a company that gets many of their contracts from VIWMA.

I hope that VIWMA will one day soon fall under the watchful eye of our IG. There's another can of worms waiting to be opened there.

Correct--i edited my post. The person who wrote the opinion is legally irrelevant now, because it was still carried out under the authority of the sitting AG- Frazier. The point is that we do not have a sitting AG who can reverse any binding Attorney General opinions at the current time.

Good point re: WICO. There are two arguments that might justify Mapp's expenditure and distinguish his spending from DeJongh's, though they both fail.

1. WICO is a public company. We know that WICO is chartered as a public company, and derives its power from legislation. As its funds are considered to be public funds, Mapp's expenditures are illegal private enrichment using public funds without legislative approval (same standard used by the federal IG).

2. WICO is NOT a public company. Even if we assume that WICO isn't a public company, his use of the funds still violates the law, because they paid for his private mansion rent in lieu of moneys owed to the Government. This taints the entire transaction, and renders the use of funds just as illegal as if the governor spent them directly. Moneys owed to the Government are still public funds. A governor cannot conduct unlawful transactions with yet-to-be-earned government revenues and say it's excused because the funds haven't been accounted for yet.
That's like a governor forgiving a grocery store's tax burden if they supply him free groceries. That would be just as illegal as if he spent the funds himself! [although free groceries seem to be a part of the gubernatorial "perks" here in the VI!]

Under even the most pro-Mapp position, his expenditures are patently illegal.

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Posted : August 19, 2015 8:27 pm
monogram
(@monogram)
Advanced Member

Please delete--extra post.

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Posted : August 19, 2015 8:35 pm
Alana33
(@alana33)
Expert

I remember there was some back and forth at the Legislative hearing regarding WICO's board meeting and decision to fund Mapps rental fees as their attorney was saying (I think, I may not have it absolutely correct here) that WICO was private company so therefore did not have to produce the minutes of the meeting that accompanied their decision to "fund" Mapps rental in return for taxes WICO owed.

This was the hearing that Randy Knight did not attend which got the senators upset and wishing to subpoena him. We are still awaiting that particular hearing and I will be very interested in those results.

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Posted : August 19, 2015 8:56 pm
OldTart
(@the-oldtart)
Expert

... Schneider was charged with fraud over a much smaller hotel bill.

That was 15 years ago over a dispute of a bill at Frenchman's Reef in the aftermath of Hurricane Marilyn. What was the result of that case? You said previously that "every Governor of the USVI" since Juan Luis has faced charges and I asked if you could provide data but you failed to respond.

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Posted : August 19, 2015 9:04 pm
Alana33
(@alana33)
Expert

Thought wanderer said that.

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Posted : August 19, 2015 9:06 pm
rmb2830
(@rmb2830)
Advanced Member

and if you look up the records on the house Mapp rented, they owe 8 YEARS of property taxes to the VI gov't...over $50,000...

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Posted : August 19, 2015 9:07 pm
Alana33
(@alana33)
Expert

So why is this guy getting government contracts?
May have to write a few senators to inquire?

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Posted : August 19, 2015 9:11 pm
OldTart
(@the-oldtart)
Expert

Thought wanderer said that.

I believe you're right. Not hard once in a while to get them mixed up. Still begs the question (which was the point) of what happened with that case?

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Posted : August 19, 2015 10:36 pm
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