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Dear Mr. Frett

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promoguy
(@promoguy)
Advanced Member

What's the saying....if it smells like...........

Listen, I've read you're comments before on here and other than you always love getting the last word in, it's pretty easy to read you especially when you jumped on someone for being a bigot. I usually that or homophobe or racist that gets thrown into the conversation to cut off further discussion.

And Jesse the Jackson's remark still holds in or out of context. He said it so it must mean something, you thunk.

so go ahead and have the last word.

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Posted : October 31, 2008 5:14 pm
trw
 trw
(@trw)
Expert

i started this thread because i read the articles in both papers yesterday at 6:30 am when i got to work and i'm still having a hard time trying to wrap my head around this crime,and god i just can't,the brain just does'nt want to accept it for what it was "a good"samaritan on his way to church picks up 2 hitchikers,gets robbed stuffed in his trunk marched to the woods knowing full well he is on his way to his death and then shot in the back of the head and left to rot" i just can't accept it,please tell me the driver was a jerk,or he used some racial slur or was somehow inapproriate with these 2 guys,just something to put some doubt in my mind like we all do with so many murders down here,with the kid on st john we knew it was a late night coked out drunk thing,with the shopping cart victims over in hospital ground well they were homeless drug addicts,with the architect,well he was chasing the thief,with the cop,the girlfriend and the guy from tv well it was a love triangle,so much stupidity BUT there always seems to be a way to rationlize it,but this new one well i can't find any rationalization around it,the headine from the article in the daily news when he asks frett if he is going to be killed now will stay with me forever

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Topic starter Posted : October 31, 2008 5:46 pm
Trade
(@Trade)
Expert

Just wait until the soon to be in place defense team comes up with some reason that it was the victim's fault, Trw. Face it. Some are just flat out evil.

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Posted : October 31, 2008 5:50 pm
promoguy
(@promoguy)
Advanced Member

trw, unfortunately you will never get your brain around this poor fellow/good samaritan and why it happened. He was a good man with a good heart and had the tragedy of running into pure evil. There is no other explanation for Frett's evil deed.

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Posted : October 31, 2008 5:53 pm
EngRMP
(@EngRMP)
Advanced Member

trw, I'm with you... usually there is some "logical" explanation for these murders.The murder becomes an EXTREME over reaction, but there is some logic. This one sounds like the criminals were playing a game of "let's kill the next person who picks us up". That's the kind of crime that is really scary.

We had the Malveaux murder spree in northern Virginia/Maryland/DC a few years back. These two snipers would just randomly pick off people in normal every day settings, and no one could catch them. There was no logic about who would be next: kids, women, men, black, white. It was really scary.

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Posted : November 1, 2008 12:18 am
A Davis
(@A_Davis)
Trusted Member

I agree with promoguy, I think that Ms Information's comments were misinterpreted. She is stating a dark (can I use that word?) truth that I certainly can understand. I am unaware of her race, but as a person of color, I always blanch (can I use that word?) when I read about a heinous crime committed by another person of African extraction, as I feel that it adds credence to the idea that we might all potentially be that way.

I do not think she is a bigot, I think she is responding to a tragic AND personally frightening realization that people (and perhaps she, in spite of herself) will now feel less safe in the presence of young Black males. Jeffrey Dahmer ate people, yet people do not fear young White males unless given reason to. On sight, many fear young Black males. Is it easier for us to expect the worst from them?

When the Columbine shootings took place, everyone asked "why, what happened to these young boys to make them do this?" No one assumed that they were organically "bad" - all assumed that they were going through some things. Well, we are all going through some things, but we're not all killing folks. In my opinion, young Black males are always assumed to be "up to something", and now this. This makes people jump all the way to startling conclusions and lump them all in under "cold blooded killer". That, in my opinion, is what she meant.

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Posted : November 2, 2008 1:01 am
rkurpiers
(@rkurpiers)
Advanced Member

Anita,

You are echoing the sentiments of Jesse Jackson when he made the statements that were quoted by Promoguy.

For the point of this discussion I feel I should make it clear that I'm not misinterpreting Ms. Information's comments. Perhaps it might surprise you to know that I agree with your interpretation of her comments. It might also surprise (and maybe offend) you to know that you are also a bigot. In fact, most of us in some shape or form are bigots - including me.

It is human nature to be bigoted. We fear, hate, and diminish people who are different than ourselves. Perhaps bigotry is the manifestation of an innate human self-defense mechanism carried over from when we first evolved as a species. I suspect such, and it certainly is a topic worthy of debate if we're to reach an understanding of the behavior.

Regardless of how many black people are behind bars, profiling by law enforcement is illegal because it flies in the face of one of the very basic tenets this country was founded on - human rights. Based on their experiences, police officers draw conclusions about people whom they suspect of a crime but those suspicions cannot - by law - be influenced by the color of one's skin. Are they? If one believes that bigotry is an innate behavior then yes, policemen cannot help but be wary of someone who is black if most of the crimes on his beat are being committed by blacks. However, part of the duty of a police officer is to uphold the Constitution and therefore he is bound to overcome his bigotry and treat all humans equally in carrying out his job.

Ms. Information is profiling when she concludes, based on the alleged actions of Mr. Frett, that young black men are no longer worthy of a ride. There is no mis-interpreting this statement. She wrote it without qualifying it so it stands as written. It is not her bigotry which I find objectionable, it is her outright and public announcement that she is going to act on her bigotry.

If we are ever to reach total understanding and trust between people of different races and cultures, we must first recognize and admit to our feelings of bigotry, and then as intelligent human beings we must not allow our actions to be influenced by that bigotry.

It takes discipline to fight that which is in our very nature. There is growing evidence that there are anatomical and physiological differences in habitual violent criminals - so it can be argued that it is in their nature to be violent. Yet, as a society we hold them no less responsible for their actions when those actions are deemed to be anti-societal. It would be hypocritical to hold ourselves any less responsible if we allow our actions to be negatively influenced by our nature to be bigoted.

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Posted : November 2, 2008 12:16 pm
Betty
(@Betty)
Trusted Member

Kurpiers you're a lawyer I think you're enjoying this up too much. It's got to be frustrating in you line of work. I think the important issue for this board is to let the new transplants and dreamers that live here know you can't give rides to strangers, no one should have for the last ten years or longer. Its a been a lovely island tradition but its one thats time has come and gone. You're taking your life into your hands any time you stop.

Yes there's racism there's always going to be racism, I think as a whole we are all doing better day by day. Those of us that live here and are transplants(do you live here Kurpiers?) experience racism on a daily basis. It just one of the things you have to put up with if you want to live here.

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Posted : November 2, 2008 12:34 pm
A Davis
(@A_Davis)
Trusted Member

rkurpiers, I'm heartened to know that you understand my interpretation of Ms Information's commentary. I think that the use of the word "bigot" implies character flaw. Ms Information is afraid that more young Black males will be prejudged, and I believe that she is correct.

The question I was trying to raise is, why is it so much easier to assume this about young Black males and not males who have different physical characteristics? Because we have been taught to, just have we have been taught to feel that it is an insult to say that Barack Obama is a Muslim.

We have to think for ourselves. Ms Information, in voicing her apprehension, is on the road to resolving this issue within herself. I hope that we are all on the same path thanks to this conversation. The more we communicate, the better off we will be, and some of it is likely to be painful. Pain is a sign that healing or a change in direction is in order.

I think that we are all meeting our assigned functions properly, so rock on.

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Posted : November 2, 2008 12:50 pm
Trade
(@Trade)
Expert

Mark this on your calendar. I'm agreeing with Betty. :@) I don't think this has a danged thing to do with race. I'm in total shock that anyone, especially a female, picks up stranger hitchhikers in this day & age. I don't care if they're white or black, I just wouldn't do it. I think it's just a stupid thing to do, good intentions or not.

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Posted : November 2, 2008 1:41 pm
promoguy
(@promoguy)
Advanced Member

Oh, he's a lawyer, eh.

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Posted : November 2, 2008 2:03 pm
rkurpiers
(@rkurpiers)
Advanced Member

Kurpiers you're a lawyer I think you're enjoying this up too much. It's got to be frustrating in you line of work. I think the important issue for this board is to let the new transplants and dreamers that live here know you can't give rides to strangers, no one should have for the last ten years or longer. Its a been a lovely island tradition but its one thats time has come and gone. You're taking your life into your hands any time you stop.

Yes there's racism there's always going to be racism, I think as a whole we are all doing better day by day. Those of us that live here and are transplants(do you live here Kurpiers?) experience racism on a daily basis. It just one of the things you have to put up with if you want to live here.

No Betty, I am not a lawyer. Though I will let on that as a condition of my employment I am required each year to complete a diversity training course. However, the influence those courses have had on me pale in comparison to the life experiences I had growing up and spending close to 20 years on St. Thomas - as a white person.

While I understand your feeling that racism is prevalent in the V.I., I would argue that by its very definition, racism is rare. In fact, from my personal experiences I would say that the majority of the racism that I witnessed in its true form was that toward blacks by people of French heritage.

Again, from personal experience, what you describe as racism I would describe as cultural intolerance and/or ignorance. My early years on St. Thomas were nothing less than traumatic at times when I found myself the victim of both physical and emotional assaults by other children and on occasion, some adults. Those incidents might easily be described as racially motivated since "white" was a common adjective heard during those derisions. By the time I was enrolled at the College of the Virgin Islands (now U.V.I.) it had become evident to me that what I had experienced as a child was more about cultural intolerance than it was about the color of my skin. If I may borrow and paraphrase Anita's signature for a moment, from the time I began to live as St. Thomians do, the more I felt accepted as a local. Oddly enough, during my later years on St. Thomas I shared some of the same disdain for state-siders that you might describe as racism.

I can tell you one thing for sure. As a "transplant" white person, if you want to assimilate yourself into the fabric of Virgin Island society then you must resist the urge to think that you are being singled out because of the color of your skin. Such thinking will only hinder your ability to accept, learn, and adopt the local culture. Let's face it, diversity isn't exactly welcomed in the V.I. - nor is it in many places of the world. Since "transplants" have chosen to live in the V.I., then they should learn to live as Virgin Islanders. Rise above the intolerance directed toward the culture you've brought with you and that you represent, and in time you will be accepted if you learn to "live as the Romans do".

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Posted : November 2, 2008 2:11 pm
Betty
(@Betty)
Trusted Member

LOL...you know its not really profiling down here when the local pop is 95% west indian. Statistically speaking the odds are the person hitchhiking will be west indian. The other thing we should be angrier about instead of race is not having a better public transportation. For an island this size is should be easy and run like clock work.

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Posted : November 2, 2008 2:12 pm
Betty
(@Betty)
Trusted Member

You are assuming a great deal in your argument kurpiers. You assume the color of my skin and you are completely off base about racism. The definition of racism does include cultural intolerance. Take a look at Africa and see people all of the same color skin who absolutely hate each other.

I was referring to all transplants, I never said I was white. No matter the color of your skin when you come to the islands you are an outsider. I grew up with racism, I learned a long time ago to let it roll off my back. It hurts the racist not me. It is not one of the things that bothers me about the islands, sure on a bad day at the grocery store it may get me upset but on a day to day basis it almost never gets me down. Crime and apathy on the islands are another matter.

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Posted : November 2, 2008 2:20 pm
rkurpiers
(@rkurpiers)
Advanced Member

Betty,

I apologize for the wording of my earlier post as it could easily be interpreted that I was specifically writing about you the person rather than white people in general. As a white person I am relaying my opinion, thoughts, and advice to other white people. I would not, and cannot, speak for blacks or any other race that "transplants" to the V.I.

I do however, take issue over the definition of "racism". Cultural intolerance is the result of racism, not the cause or definition of racism. "Outsider" is not a race. Ergo, it is not racism when outsiders are treated differently by locals.

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Posted : November 2, 2008 2:43 pm
EngRMP
(@EngRMP)
Advanced Member

OK, I'm going to continue to pull this off topic (sorry TRW), but I'm intrigued by two sub-topics:
- Anita, I really love your attitude about dealing with racism (I suspect you carry this theme to other aspects of your life). Most of us (myself included) feel, or react, as if we've been insulted when we come across someone expressing racism (whether directed at us or someone else). We strike out (verbally) at the offender (or at least wish we had later). You, on the other hand, see the occasion as an opportunity to push the subject ahead with dialogue. I really like that outlook on life, and will try to be a little more forward thinking myself (by "forward" I mean looking past the here and now).

- Richard K. You are stating something that I think I've been trying to formulate for a while now on other threads when black on white racism is described. I too wonder if most of it in USVI is mostly locals vs outsiders as opposed to black on white. The two may be difficult to distinguish; and I'm not sure that either one is "better" than the other, but somehow I feel more willing to deal with local vs outsider acceptance. I've seen this intolerance in Africa, where I lived for a short time: the Nigerians did not (in general) care for the Brittish, but had no problems with Americans. The Nigerians also liked American blacks less than American whites (that was in the mid 70s... it might have changed by now).

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Posted : November 2, 2008 7:32 pm
Bombi
(@Bombi)
Trusted Member

From what I've read in the papers there was nothing racial about the stupid, senseless murder in cold blood other than the victim was of another race. It was just another drop out looser, wannabe gangster without any regard for humanity doing what they do best. Evil.
My heartfelt sympathy to his friends and family. May Frett rot in jail, forever.

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Posted : November 3, 2008 4:48 pm
trw
 trw
(@trw)
Expert

i also agree,i don't think race was an issue in this crime,i honestly think they saw a geeky short guy they could easily overpower,one of the lawyers i know told me i was just upset because the victim was white and i said no that never entered my mind what bothered me the most was the fact he was on his way to a church thing and he responded back with "well thats one less christian fanatic we need to deal with" and at that point i just walked away,i mean really how do you respond to that?

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Topic starter Posted : November 3, 2008 5:49 pm
Trade
(@Trade)
Expert

He was Bahai. Nice lawyer. Maybe he'll be the next victim & we'll see how he feels then. Jerk.

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Posted : November 3, 2008 5:52 pm
A Davis
(@A_Davis)
Trusted Member

Dear EngRMP: I find that I cannot change people's minds about race issues, but at the same time I feel that it's the symptom and not the problem. The bottom line is usually power, with humans finding ways to differentiate themselves from others to excuse their own abysmal behavior. Amazing that Adolph Hitler looked nothing like the Aryans that he proposed were so superior and deserving of life. He got away with it for quite a time, too. Everyone, not just Jews, must say, "Never Again".

I think that we are living in an age where we can dialogue - across the water, continents, among countries... and it's remarkable. I am so grateful for this. We share, and we can all make a difference.

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Posted : November 3, 2008 11:00 pm
EngRMP
(@EngRMP)
Advanced Member

You might not be able to change someone's mind with one thought or one conversation. But dialogue can be like painting a picture.... eventually a new picture becomes clear and presents a new view in a way that can be understood and appreciated.

Let's hope that the new president can help to paint the picture...

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Posted : November 4, 2008 12:55 pm
A Davis
(@A_Davis)
Trusted Member

You might not be able to change someone's mind with one thought or one conversation. But dialogue can be like painting a picture.... eventually a new picture becomes clear and presents a new view in a way that can be understood and appreciated.

Let's hope that the new president can help to paint the picture...

Ain't life wunnerful?!

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Posted : November 5, 2008 3:51 am
cougar134
(@cougar134)
Advanced Member

A Davis....I have read your posts for the past month or so and have absolutely loved them. And I love how straight forward you are, and I love all people, please do not get the wrong idea, but I am just trying to play devil's advocate, but I know we have heard about certain shooting's in the past but no one has talked about the largest shooting on US soil which was at Virginia Tech, now I know and pray that nothing happens like that there in STX, but man it makes you think and hope and pray that nothing like that happens to you

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Posted : November 5, 2008 5:49 am
Alix
 Alix
(@Alix)
Advanced Member

Anita~

I must say.....you are a beautiful person. I love the way you think.....it reminds me of me. I would love to buy you a beverage sometime and chat if you are ever on STX.

You made me tear up. And I thank you for it.

Big Hugs~

Alix
alix@fullmoonbeachbar.com

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Posted : November 5, 2008 12:22 pm
A Davis
(@A_Davis)
Trusted Member

Dear Alix:

Wow, that's made my day. I am partial to complimentary beverages, too!:D

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Posted : November 5, 2008 11:20 pm
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