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FCC satellite dish laws

 

SkysTheLimit
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October 28, 2009 8:21 pm  

I met with another condo assn. today and the following was implied.
"We know about those laws but we have the last word"

I assured them I wouldn't install on any property that doesn't allow them but did send him the following link.

http://condolawyers.com/articles/fcc.htm

A few excerpts below:
"Although everyone knows by now that the Federal Communications Commission prohibits covenants and rules that restrict satellite dishes, few board members understand how far the FCC goes in protecting the right of the public to receive television signals."

"The association has the burden of proof to demonstrate that any restrictions are reasonable under the FCC rules. "

"So far, in most of the association cases reviewed by the FCC, the association has lost the case and the antenna owner has prevailed.

"Associations should re-think their satellite dish rules and remove any prior approval or permit requirements from their restrictions."

And so on...................

Disclaimer
I sell satellite TV systems and think the public should be aware of this. Take it for what it is please.
I'm sure I'll catch heck from some of you for posting this. Please consult your attorney. I am not a lawyer.


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stiphy
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October 29, 2009 5:43 pm  

Sky,

I was on a Co-Op TV committee before moving here and one thing that we were told was that if the building has a plan to implement Satellite TV of its own then you could restrict individuals from having dishes. The key is that you just needed a plan but there was nothing that said you had to implement it. I know of some buildings that used this approach to get away with restricting individuals from having dishes. Is this still the case?

It also says that this only applies to dishes smaller 1m (although it says larger in Alaska). Not sure if this limits its usefullnes here since our dishes are usually a minimum of 1.2m.

FWIW, we DID NOT restrict them in our building.

Sean


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SkysTheLimit
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October 29, 2009 5:58 pm  

They may have gotten away with restricting dishes but most likely because the induividual wanting a dish never pushed the issue.
The law reads "unreasonably delay or prevent installation, maintenance or use" Seems if they had a "plan" to install the whole property but didn't implement in a reasonable time that wouldn't hold water.

Correct in saying this law is for 1.0 meter max. Except Alaska which also requires a larger dish. Not sure why the VI wasn't also recognized as such. But.......
Dishnetwork can get acceptable signal on a 1.0 for these people. I always sold the 1.2 to ensure a good signal, but the difference is pretty minimal.

FYI By around March 2010 we will be installing a Dish 500 30 inch dish. Waiting for the launch and deployment of 119 satellite replacement. Can't wait!! More HD:@)


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Neil
 Neil
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October 29, 2009 9:35 pm  

Sky, don't apologize for posting helpful information.
The fact that you DO know the business is useful, not a detriment.

I can understand condo associations wanting to keep dishes from getting strung every which way.
But they should come up with a reasonable solution.

FTR: I am one of Sky's customers and was not paid for this endorsement, though I wouldn't turn it down. 😛


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Jim Dandy
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October 30, 2009 10:23 am  

The only reason I can figure out that we don't have larger dishes permitted on the VI is the vested interests have blocked it.

In the past year I have written two letters to Donna Christensen requesting she sponsor legislation to get VI residents the right to install larger dishes.

I didn't even receive an acknowledgement from her office that they had received the letter.

Jim


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SkysTheLimit
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October 30, 2009 10:24 am  

Thanks Neil.

I've posted info here before and answered specific questions only to be scolded for advertising.
I once posted the difference between DISHnetwork and DirecTV Latin America channel lineups and it was pulled the same day.(td)
Facts are facts!

I hope you're enjoying your hockey games on Dish!


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SkysTheLimit
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October 30, 2009 10:47 am  

Jim,
The good news is that a dish that will meet the law requirements will work.
More condo HOAs are starting to realize this and accepting the inevitible.

I was told recently by an HOA "We won't stop people from getting a dish,...but we don't want to promote them"
The fact is that they CAN'T stop them. Within the law. Once again.......consult your attorney.

My approach is to try finding a spot to install it that has the least visible impact to the property. Some of my installs you'd never find but others have to be seen due to the layout of the building. I also approach it with the intent to share the dish as much as possible. A dish is just an antenna and there is really no limit to the number of receivers it can support. Cable length, type, and quality are the limiting factors.
I laugh when in PR and see a dish hanging from every balcony. If they had a plan they would require only a fraction of them, or one dish.


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Neil
 Neil
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October 30, 2009 9:44 pm  

Thanks Neil.

I've posted info here before and answered specific questions only to be scolded for advertising.
I once posted the difference between DISHnetwork and DirecTV Latin America channel lineups and it was pulled the same day.(td)
Facts are facts!

I hope you're enjoying your hockey games on Dish!

Hey... Major HIPPO violation.... how do you know I have Center Ice?
😉

Question: why don't they put RAIN SKIRTS on the top of the dish?
Seems like every evening rain interrupts some fine viewing of God's sport.


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stiphy
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November 2, 2009 12:15 pm  

Sky can correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe rain skirts wouldn't work. It's NOT rain ON the dish that is the problem. Rain is refractive so it distorts the signal BETWEEN the dish and the satellite in space. Because the signal here is coming from such a sharp angle (as we are on the edge of the satellite footprint) the rain has a particularly harsh effect.

However, when I had satellite in the states we'd get rain fade for the kinds of downpours that we experience here too. IOW I don't think it's something that's all that much worse here, our weaker signal and extreme angle may make it a little worse but the kind of rain we get here (cats and dogs) would be problematic anywhere.

Dish with rain fade every so often is still MUCH better than any of the alternatives I've tried on island though!

Unfortunately its often during games that these rains move in. I got Dish largely for Center Ice too, big Devil's fan but also follow the Capital's closely. Grew up playing hockey and it's by far the thing I miss most living down here!

Sean


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specialk
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November 2, 2009 12:47 pm  

Sean...you are correct. Rain fade is caused by the density of the rain drops blocking the signal. Heavy snow can also cause signal fade. Another cause is the sun.

Up north there are some days when the sun gets between an earth receiver (dish) and a satellite causing pictures to get fuzzy or drop out. We call this "sun blindness". It usually lasts only several minutes. I can't say this happens with Dish or Direct TV but it does happen in CATV which is where my background is.

Another snow related problem is when snow collects on the surface of a dish. This can distort the surface of the dish which affects signal quality. In my early days of CATV in NJ I always had to park my bucket truck between our two earth stations when a snow storm was coming so we could brush the snow off when pictures started to get fuzzy. Those were the days!


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rotorhead
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November 2, 2009 2:58 pm  

"Up north there are some days when the sun gets between an earth receiver (dish) and a satellite causing pictures to get fuzzy or drop out. We call this "sun blindness". It usually lasts only several minutes."

How does the sun get between the satellite and the dish? I thought the sun was much further away than the satellites. Like 93 million vs 26000 miles.


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SkysTheLimit
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November 2, 2009 3:29 pm  

Rainfade is caused by the rain clouds and the rain in the sky falling. Not rain hitting the dish. One guy told me (and swore by it) that he sprayed Pam on his dish so that the rain would slide off and not effect signal. LOL I've also seen people fashion a visor over the dish.

Sun outages are cause twice a year for about 4 days. Its when the sun is directly behind the satellite and causes interuption for about 3 minutes. spring and fall. Somehow the direct intensity distorts the signal. Not sure how that works but I'm sure some NASA engineer could exlain it.

I've never actually experienced it because I'm not watching TV at that time of day. It's around 4:30pm for 2 or 3 minutes and only for a few days as the sun passes BEHIND the satellite.. Minor issue!!


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specialk
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November 2, 2009 3:34 pm  

Yeah, OK. That'll teach me to do posts first thing in the morning 😎

"How does the sun get between the satellite and the dish? I thought the sun was much further away than the satellites. Like 93 million vs 26000 miles."


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rotorhead
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November 2, 2009 3:45 pm  

Rain fade varies with wavelength. Ku band has a short wavelength and is susceptible to rain fade whereas C band doesn't experience it. When Dish drops out I switch over to the network feeds on C band.


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specialk
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November 2, 2009 4:36 pm  

Simply put, the sun generates electrical noise. There are times during the year when the sun gets BEHIND a satellite and the noise it generates overpowers, or masks, the satellite signal being received by the earth station. The sun "blinds" the receiver causing a sun outage.

Imagine you're standing in a dark room and there's a small penlight mounted several feet away pointed directly at you. You are the receiver and the penlight is the satellite. You (the receiver) can see the light (signal) from the penlight (satellite) with no problem. Now imagine there's a high power flood light (the sun) mounted several feet behind the penlight (the satellite). If the flood light is turned on the light (electrical noise) from it will dominate the light spectrum in the room causing you to see more of the floodlight (noise from the sun) and less of the penlight (signal from the satellite). A rough demonstartion but that's the basic idea. The affects of sun outages range from sparkly picture to complete loss of picture.

We now return you to our regular programing.


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SkysTheLimit
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November 2, 2009 5:40 pm  

And......Dish is broadcast in left and right hand circular KU band.
Correct Rotor! C Band will not experience rain fade.


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rotorhead
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November 2, 2009 5:54 pm  

That is correct Sky. All of the DBS services are Ku band. Dish is mostly circular polarization except for the sats that they picked up as afterthoughts, i.e. 118.7, 105, and 121. These birds used to be FTA and were Anik F3, Anik F1 and Galaxy 23, they are linear polarization.

No rain fade on C band. That is why the Innovative cable signal still works during heavy rain. C band is mostly used for distribution feeds by the networks and syndicators.


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SkysTheLimit
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November 2, 2009 6:29 pm  

Which is why a different LNB type is required for 118.7, 105, and 121

Some may not realize that watching cable is actually watching satellite TV that's been re-sold and distributed on cable.


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Neil
 Neil
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November 2, 2009 8:21 pm  

Unfortunately its often during games that these rains move in. I got Dish largely for Center Ice too, big Devil's fan but also follow the Capital's closely. Grew up playing hockey and it's by far the thing I miss most living down here!

Sean

Jackets fan here. Sorry about last night. 😎 Best wishes to Ovie on his recovery.

Thanks for the explanation.


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SkysTheLimit
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November 3, 2009 7:47 pm  

Sean,
You miss playing hockey or watching the games?

I played up to the time I moved here. Why don't you talk your boss into building an Ice Rink here?? 😀


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