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government bailout of auto industry

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film
 film
(@film)
Advanced Member

Well maybe not an island hot topic but I would like to have my say here and be heard somewhere. What is up with this attempted government bailout of auto industry... and who is next... there are lots of companies that are suffering, they started by helping out banks (their problem... make a loan to someone who can't pay then shame on you.) and now the auto industry wants help.......... well excuse me......... so would I..... Do you think the average guy could get bailout money???? Probably not. I know I can write my local politician and have my voice heard but I just wanted to do it here where it is okay to be heard.

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Topic starter Posted : November 20, 2008 2:24 am
film
 film
(@film)
Advanced Member

for 25 billion you could probably buy St Croix.... now that would make a nice christmas present for someone minus the potholes.

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Topic starter Posted : November 20, 2008 2:38 am
terry
(@terry)
Expert

Are you aware that with the bailouts, the government is taking a tyoe of ownership in the companies.

Plus the companies have to repay the loans and interest. What I don't know is, once the loan is repaid, is the government still a majority owner?

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Posted : November 20, 2008 3:13 am
anjell
(@anjell)
Advanced Member

In a way, it's the auto industry. In another way, it's not. Here's why, no one expected gas prices to go through the roof.

The only downside to the big 3 failing, or filing for bankruptcy, millions of people will lose jobs. Not just the auto industry itself, but, the auto parts suppliers, loan officers - some of the auto industries have their own finance companies. The ripple effect will be tremendous. More foreclosures, more unemployment insurance checks, more people depending on government for healthcare.....

I think it's time to replace management, get rid of board members. Remember, when Clinton was in office, these CEO's didn't make the money they are making now.

It is a catch-22 situation. But the end result is, they have been trying to do away with union jobs for the past 8 years. If the companies file for bankruptcy, you have people who have worked for 25 years+ without a pension, healthcare.....What if you worked at a company and they took money out of your check for your pension, then was able to walk away with their profits and left you with zero. That's something else people need to think about.

The difference with the bank bailout, the banks received the money and are now buying up other banks. In the end, they merge banks, and layoff, otherwise fire employees from the bank they have taken over.

It's a mess.

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Posted : November 20, 2008 6:09 am
Linda J
(@Linda_J)
Expert

What I haven't figured out is how this is different than "nationalization"? When some banana republic takes over an US-owned oil refinery we scream. It this different because the businessea are asking?

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Posted : November 20, 2008 9:06 am
anjell
(@anjell)
Advanced Member

Here's the scenario broken down.

1) The banks are not lending money - and for a business to borrow money, they must come in with a business plan, and be able to show they can pay back the loan. - given the situation they are in now, just like any other borrower, they will not get a loan.

2)A business such as GM, Ford, Chrysler can sell shares (stocks) and bonds (corporate) to raise cash (stocks gives you ownership in a company - but if they lose you lose, bonds makes you a creditor so if they file for bankruptcy you will be paid before the shareholders because this is almost like putting a lien on a property), but since most of the shareholders/investors, pensions have already sold their shares and bonds, and the news about possible failure/bankruptcy, more than likely, new or potential investors will not take a chance on losing money. An example, Kirk Kerkorian, a billionaire had shares in chrysler, also MGM Hotel in Vegas, he sold.

With this in mind, if they file for bankruptcy, a foreign investor such as from China, Russia, or whoever can come in if they want, and buy the company for pennies on the dollar.

Now, not to dis China, but with all the bad food and toys they have been shipping into to country - do you want to trust them with manufacturing your car. I would think if the food, toys, dogfood is not good, then, just maybe, the car wouldn't be any good.

*****The most important thing, the U.S. used to be a country that didn't have to depend on other countries for anything, now, due to trade agreements, almost everything we consume is from another country. With all the anti-American sentiment over the past 8 years, do you really want to get rid of everything and be at the mercy of others?

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Posted : November 20, 2008 10:02 am
divinggirl
(@divinggirl)
Trusted Member

What makes me angry about all the bailouts was expressed in the questions asked of the big 3 CEO's. When asked if they traveled on a commercial flight all three said no. When asked if they at least "carpooled" and only took one of their 3 private jets all three said no. When asked if they were taking a pay cut to assist with the financial issues of the company (like Lee Iaccoca taking $1/yr) all three said no. AIG used a ton of the money given to them for bonuses and perks. Unless these companies start to tighten their belts and make cuts and hard decisions I think they should not be given any money. Don't forget that the first thing AIG (OK the 2nd thing after the big bonuses and fun trips) was to come back and ask if they could forgo paying back the money!
When I was in corporate management the first thing that happened when earnings went down was the elimination of all bonuses, trips and raises. Then came "reduction in force" (either layoffs or hiring freezes or both) and our CEO even voluntarily took a pay cut. Any further monies should only be provided with major stipulations about what the companies will do to fix the problems that caused the situation they have put themselves in.

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Posted : November 20, 2008 11:30 am
dylandrewsdad
(@dylandrewsdad)
Advanced Member

I still live on the mainland and work for a an auto manufacturer (Luckily it is Subaru!) so my take is a little different then most on this forum. but Anjell is right! The ripple effect will be tremendous! Not only everyone that works from manufacturer, but truck drivers who haul the cars and parts, people who work in restaurants were these truck drivers eat on the road, the list can go on and on!

I would love for the government to give me a "bailout" I would put it towards my "moving to St Thomas fund!8-)

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Posted : November 20, 2008 12:24 pm
Lizard
(@Lizard)
Trusted Member

If the US Lets the big 3 fail, 300 million jobs will be lost. "REALTY" Just for the record "they are looking for loans not a bailout"!

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Posted : November 20, 2008 1:37 pm
chockman
(@chockman)
Trusted Member

Yes I have to give it to Anjell on this one. Your post is similar to some I have been posting myself. This is the bottom line on my spin,All of this is their fault and they must be regulated. So change for the Big 3 needs to come. But to those of you that are totally against the bail out,all I have to say is you are not looking far enough in to the future. "Mark my words" it will become a matter of National Security,if we lose the Big 3.

Our Country won't go on forever,if we stay as soft as we are right now.
There won't be any America,because some Foreign soldier will invade
us and take our women and breed a hardier race.

Lt. Gen. Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller
USMC

There is wisdom in these words, spoken oh some many years ago.

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Posted : November 20, 2008 2:50 pm
jkleman
(@jkleman)
Advanced Member

The one thing I have to add to this...I grew up in northwest ohio and I am aware of the impact the loss of the auto industry would be. Actually half of my family and friends work for auto suppliers.

The one thing I can not stand is everyone complaing that Obama is gonna take us into big government and socialism. Well wake up people he is not even in office yet and we are using tax money to "buyout" oops I mean bailout big business.

If that isnt big government then I dont know what is. Just hate that argument from Non Obama supporters. Open your eyes!!

Laters

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Posted : November 20, 2008 4:56 pm
chockman
(@chockman)
Trusted Member

I was not Obama supporter,only time will tell. He wants to make GOV bigger. Hell I have worked 23.5 out of 43 years for GOV and have been saying it is already to big and and out of control with no accountability what so ever. So my question to you is how is making it bigger going to fix anything ? No it won't fix a thing except maybe give someone a job,we are expected to grow by 100,000 people this next year. That is such a small number of people considering the situation at hand. It really doe's not matter what they do,we are all in way to deep .

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Posted : November 20, 2008 5:05 pm
jkleman
(@jkleman)
Advanced Member

I am not saying making a government bigger is making anything any better. I do agree it is way to big and there is no accountability. I was military before and it was even visible in there. It will create jobs, but we need to fix the mess we already have. I guess maybe I came across wrong when I typed my first posting on here.

I am not saying big government is a good thing. I am saying it is already here. So blaming it on someone that is not even in office yet is not quite fair when it is already shining its ugly head.

Laterz

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Posted : November 20, 2008 5:14 pm
chockman
(@chockman)
Trusted Member

No one blaming Obama here on this end. But anything he does that may be good for the Country won't be noticed for a long time. He will really have to impress with his policies to even Begin to think about voting for him in the future.

He could be the greatest thing since sliced cheese for our country but he has got to prove himself. Remember actions speak louder than words, but he is a real good speaker. A politician is a politician,they all sell Snake oil . But no fear change is coming and as he said it will get a lot worse before it gets any better.

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Posted : November 20, 2008 7:29 pm
anjell
(@anjell)
Advanced Member

Wow, very interesting comments here. I see socialism, nationalism...I also, strangely see Obama!

What we, the American people have been going through the past 8 years is socialism, nationalism. Millions of jobs lost, like technology, I know everytime I call tech support I am talking to someone in India or Philipines.
Well, lets see, after Hurricane Katrina, most insurance companies wouldn't pay up, people were uprooted from their homes - Guess what? They still haven't returned home, no jobs, no money - do you think they are are homeless? No. Do you think they are all working? No. Some are receiving government assisted housing/and monthly monetary-health benefits.

The wars, we are financing this war with the generous help of China, Saudi Arabia, and Mexico!!!! If you look back at history, you will see that we used to sell war bonds to finance a war. But this time we've cut taxes to the wealthy and destroyed the middle class.

As far as the bank bailout, Mr. Paulson has a fiduciary duty, just like any other person entrusted with funds to do the right thing. However, he came from Goldman Sachs, so of course, with deregulation some of the money is not accounted for, just like the billions of dollars in cash taken to Iraq.

It's sad that people sat up and tolerated everything for almost 8 years, and just complained and did nothing, but, now wants to blame the Black Guy who isn't in office yet. I guess when Mr. Obama gets into office, he will be blamed for things that had nothing to do with him.

What I'm saying is, people will do what you let them do. Just like a relationship with a significant other, you let the person walk all over you, they are going to do it. You keep giving a person money to keep them around, they are going to keep taking your money.

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Posted : November 20, 2008 9:25 pm
anjell
(@anjell)
Advanced Member

BTW, the corporate jets were approved by the board members, paid for by investors.

I lost money in Fannie Mae, General Electric, Anheuser Busch. I no longer invest anymore. Besides the corporate jets, the board members get free Club Member dues for golf or they can take the cash. Most of them also get use of Corporate Homes, or they get a minimum of 275k for housing. I could go on and on, but, the perks these guys get are insane. But, again, all paid for by investors.

Another thing I noticed while checking my bank statements, that insurance on deposits raised from 100k to 250k, my bank said it is only good until 12-2009. Thanks to deregulation. BTW, if you haven't heard, next time you go to the doctor, if you want birth control pills, your pharmacist can deny this based on his religious beliefs, values.

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Posted : November 20, 2008 9:58 pm
dntw8up
(@dntw8up)
Trusted Member

anjell,

Playing the race card i.e. "blame the Black Guy who isn't in office yet" is silly on a USVI forum. There are other forums where your political hyperbole would be more appropriate.

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Posted : November 20, 2008 10:11 pm
anjell
(@anjell)
Advanced Member

Wow! Out of nowhere!
LOL:-)

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Posted : November 20, 2008 11:05 pm
chockman
(@chockman)
Trusted Member

Blame the black guy ? Don't forget he is also half white .

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Posted : November 21, 2008 2:00 pm
terry
(@terry)
Expert

The big three will probably declare bankruptcy. The unions will not budge off of their $75 hr pay (benefits included and SS, taxes, pensions, etc ) while the US made Toyota and others are around $40 hr. Plus the big three are paying all of the health care and pensions of all it workers from all the yeas past. NOT SAYING THIS IS RIGHT OR WRONG.
By declaring bankruptcy, they will still have to pay the pensions, but the union contracts will be gone. If the workers want jobs, the unions will have to either lower their pay demands or be gone. The stock holders will be wiped out. The Big Three will be able to reorganize.
Part of the problem is us, the consumer. We want the cheapest, and in some cases better. But we as consumers buy foreign made even when US made is available. We the consumer think nothing of the jobs that are being lost or shipped overseas, until ours is gone, or something like the big mess we are in now. Yes some of the companies are greedy and are outsourcing for that reason, but some are forced into that if they want to stay in business.
40 years ago, people bought the cars made in Japan because they were cheap. In most cases the early cars were far inferior but much cheaper. Yet people still bought them.
Today we all decry about how nothing is made in the US and all of the jobs lost. Aren't we somewhat to blame? If we had refused to buy the offshore products, they wouldn't have taken over.
Hindsight IS 20/20.

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Posted : November 21, 2008 2:47 pm
terry
(@terry)
Expert

Some of are just afraid that it will get even worse.
Today's Republican is so far left that they make Hubert Humfrey look conservative.

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Posted : November 21, 2008 2:52 pm
chockman
(@chockman)
Trusted Member

Last month I just purchased a new Chevy 4x4 pickup,and I also buy and own Harley Davidson. Nuff said, AMERICA. Toyoata builds a great truck but even their smallest 4x4 gets no better mileage than my full size Chevy and it can't pull the same load either. You can buy American and help keep your Country alive or we will wither on the vine and be blown away.

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Posted : November 21, 2008 3:40 pm
NugBlazer
(@NugBlazer)
Advanced Member

Bailing out the auto industry is a complete and total crock and won't solve ANYTHING in the long term. The far better solution is for them to enter Chapter 11 bankruptcy. That's why we have Chapter 11, exactly for situations like this.

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Posted : November 21, 2008 4:02 pm
vicaptain
(@vicaptain)
Advanced Member

As our country heads towards uncharted waters, this is an issue that affects us all. What it does not affect is moving to the Virgin Islands. IMHO, this thread is off topic from the board.

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Posted : November 21, 2008 4:52 pm
chockman
(@chockman)
Trusted Member

It is your economy as well. I hope you have enough to sustain you. Watching my retirement dwindle away sure makes me change my mind about relocating, any time soon.

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Posted : November 21, 2008 5:44 pm
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