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highest Crimes rates in the Caribbean according to Frommers 2008

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Off Island
(@Off_Island)
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Maybe if the USVI deported all the Down Islanders then our crime rate would go down and their crime rate would go up

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Posted : July 25, 2008 6:54 pm
dntw8up
(@dntw8up)
Trusted Member

The vast majority of criminals here are Virgin Islanders, not West Indians from down island. Frommer's cites reported crime statistics, so islands that don't report crime appear safer than islands that do report crime. Sending down island criminals back home won't raise their home islands' crime rates if their islands keep crime data private.

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Posted : July 25, 2008 7:55 pm
Trade
(@Trade)
Expert

We have an FBI presence, Federal Marshalls, etc. so stats are not tilted.

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Posted : July 25, 2008 9:49 pm
davidryder
(@davidryder)
Advanced Member

Right but how many people don't even report crime out of fear of repercussions or somebody knowing them, or cops being friends with the criminals, etc?

Reported crime is gathered in the the same manner anywhere and doesn't necessarily reflect the amount of crime (as suggested) - but the Virgin Islands isn't special in that regard.

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Posted : July 26, 2008 12:54 am
dntw8up
(@dntw8up)
Trusted Member

david,

Whether a victim reports crime to the police is another matter entirely. Here we're only talking about crime reported to the police. In the USVI, crime reported to the police is publicly disclosed, both in the media and statistically. In many Caribbean nations, crime reported to the police is not disclosed to the media, and statistics aren't reported or available on demand.

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Posted : July 26, 2008 1:02 am
davidryder
(@davidryder)
Advanced Member

So everybody but the USVI is just making up data?

Finally, the incidence of harassment, drug peddling and petty theft perpetrated against cruise passengers has become so disruptive in some islands that cruise lines have periodically dropped destinations (Jamaica, St. Croix, USVI) off their itinerary.

In addition, the most dramatic increases have been in property crime (burglary, larceny, robbery), and have tended to be concentrated in highly developed tourist destinations: Bahamas, Dominican Republic, Jamaica, Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands (USVI).

from http://www.saintmarys.edu/~jmcelroy/Crime%20in%20the%20Caribbean%20Text.htm

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Posted : July 26, 2008 5:19 am
trw
 trw
(@trw)
Expert

and one has to wonder if frommers publishes a list of crime stats for the 50 states,people may not want to visit a particular state if it has high crime rates,to me it is very irresponsible for frommers to come out with a list like that,if they do not also do it for states and countries around the world

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Posted : July 26, 2008 5:37 am
davidryder
(@davidryder)
Advanced Member

It shouldn't be viewed as a deterrent - it's just statistical data. People have different requirements and this wouldn't necessarily be a deterrent to everybody. Obviously people live there happily their entire life and get by fine. While it would require a lifestyle change for some it wouldn't be any different for many others making the move.

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Posted : July 26, 2008 5:43 am
NormanPaperman
(@NormanPaperman)
Advanced Member

Dear David,

I understand you are simply trying to defend one of the reasons your decided not to move to the Virgin Islands. Without reaching the merits or the accuracy of your analysis, you have a valid point, nobody wants to live in a crime-riddled area. However, I think that the manner in which you are defending your stance is offending people. The Virgin Islands does have a high crime rate, however, as other posters have pointed out, despite Frommer's statistics it is probably lower than 90% of the other islands on the list. The posters are correct in pointing out that other islands under-report their crime. That being said, as my statistics professor in college said on the first day of class, "statistics can be manipulated to say whatever you want them to say."

David, I know you do not intend to offend the people on this board, but you are. Don't be naieve. Good luck, wherever you end up.

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Posted : July 26, 2008 11:50 am
davidryder
(@davidryder)
Advanced Member

Dear David,

I understand you are simply trying to defend one of the reasons your decided not to move to the Virgin Islands. Without reaching the merits or the accuracy of your analysis, you have a valid point, nobody wants to live in a crime-riddled area. However, I think that the manner in which you are defending your stance is offending people. The Virgin Islands does have a high crime rate, however, as other posters have pointed out, despite Frommer's statistics it is probably lower than 90% of the other islands on the list. The posters are correct in pointing out that other islands under-report their crime. That being said, as my statistics professor in college said on the first day of class, "statistics can be manipulated to say whatever you want them to say."

David, I know you do not intend to offend the people on this board, but you are. Don't be naieve. Good luck, wherever you end up.

No, I'm not simply trying to defend the reason I am not coming down there at the moment. What I am defending is facts and numbers and peoples inability to use reason or logic to approach the subject of crime. If you want me to post more information (facts) I can, but I haven't because it's not my point to prove how much crime is occurring in the VI or to convince anyone not to live/move there. But when things I and others say (fact) is met with guesswork or anecdotal evidence, it doesn't go well.

I don't really care where on the list the USVI is - I'm sure it could be several positions up or down depending on how the statistics were gathered. I would like it to be at the bottom of the list - but from what I've gathered I doubt that's the case. By some peoples logic though the USVI should be on the top of the list as everybody but the USVI could simply misreport the data. If the manner in which I'm defending my stance (with facts and numbers) is offensive to some, I'm not sure what I can really do about that. I'm not trying to prove how horrible the USVI is. I LOVE the USVI, but that doesn't change the facts.

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Posted : July 26, 2008 1:50 pm
NormanPaperman
(@NormanPaperman)
Advanced Member

The point is, through no fault of your own, the facts you use to back your stance are wrong. That is what everyone is telling you.

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Posted : July 26, 2008 2:00 pm
terry
(@terry)
Expert

Not all islands are even on the list.
A couple of years ago we went to Roatan, one of the Bay Islands off Honduras. Talk about third world. The grocery stores had armed guards with police riot guns guarding the cash registers! The bank only allowed one customer at a time in, and a armed guard, either police or military, with a automatic weapon was standing guard outside.
I do hear that the Camen's are very safe.
Good Luck and have fun

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Posted : July 26, 2008 2:00 pm
Trade
(@Trade)
Expert

I don't know why you can't understand that other islands not under the US flag have always downplayed their crime statistics & I know that from first-hand experience as has Sabrina & it's because it would affect their tourism. I know personally of TONS of crime years ago on an island which competes with STT & you never read anything about it in the papers, ever. It was just all fun, quaint little stories. Since the internet more victim's stories are heard about but the reporting of crime hasn't improved much.

There are tons & tons of threads here on this board about crime. Over & over it's said that MOSTLY (not in every case) it's a case of bad guy on bad guy and advice is given to avoid it. Nobody has said there isn't any crime. Nobody says the crime rate is low. It's not. Just that there are much less safe islands to live on. Talk about beating a dead horse!

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Posted : July 26, 2008 2:05 pm
rokipatel
(@rokipatel)
Advanced Member

Davidryer

I agree that you are looking for reasons not to move to the virgin islands. Nothing my friend is perfect no place in the world is but people live and work happily and that is a fact. When i started to frequent this forum allot of people here told me not to move this and that Crime "You are going to get mugged, carjack etc... so far nothing i go out every weekend to a bar or restaurant o little clubs in the island i come home at 3-4:00am i travel thru the streets like i did in Miami and Puerto rico all my life no problems. The people that i have met here are great very mellow and easy going allot are business people establish here many years that are very happy and have no crime stories like the one's i heard in this forum. Yes i do get angry as an engineer that we lost power 1-2 hours every day last week but to be honest with you before that i hardly had a power outage at all. In the Dominican Republic people don't have power 8-10 a day or non at all. St Maarten power situation in the Dutch side is terrible more than USVI. Let's not talk about jamaica last time i went my partner and associate put a body guard to be with me at all times so i don't get mugged. Bahamas in the last 3 months there have been 20 murders a tourist from delaware a cop that was shot in the chest he was mugged in cable beach Nassau, Right in the atlantis on Cabbage beach 2 murders right in front of tourist at daylight and that some of the stories publish by the news paper i know the Bahamian government tries to pressure newspaper not to publish those stories. Understand unless you come to the virgin islands spend at least a month then you will understand that you make your own experiences and you will love it remember as long as the star spangle banner is flying the USVI will be above the rest Islands believe me i have travel.

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Topic starter Posted : July 26, 2008 3:12 pm
Yearasta
(@Yearasta)
Trusted Member

You know I wasn't going to say anything because it's a moot point. But I have to give my 2 cents.

Let's forget numbers and statistics for a second and let's look at reality. I am a white girl from St. Louis that moved down here almost 2 months ago with my husband (Who happens to be a local) I can assure you I DO NOT LIVE IN FEAR here on any level. He went to school at the University of Miami, when we were in Miami just driving through Liberty City, Goulds or Overtown gave me chills. In alot of cities Miami, DC, New Orleans, St Louis there are murders EVERY NIGHT...so what about per capita..it is still a murder every night. Trying to sleep and hearing gun shots all night long and sirens 24-7 is what makes me live in fear..you know what I hear here???? THE OCEAN

I work in the service industry here on St. Croix and work until 11 or 12 some night. I don't live in fear, i love it..so I guess I'm "uneducated or not willing to come to terms with what it's really like down there"

Oh and in case you're thinking I'm sheltered here...no I GO OUT...we even go to bars in Machuchal or Matthew Charles whatever you want to call it. I fell very safe here, more than I have in the states.

Sitting and reading about statistics and numbers is one thing...coming and living it is another. REALITY....Melissa

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Posted : July 27, 2008 12:56 am
trw
 trw
(@trw)
Expert

Thank you Melissa!!!!!!!!!

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Posted : July 27, 2008 1:46 am
meowruff
(@meowruff)
Advanced Member

Melissa,
THANK YOU!!!!! I've missed you and have been wondering what you've been up to, but you're right! My husband and I have been working and have schedules with some very late night hours. I have NEVER felt unsafe here. Certainly, I am aware of my surroundings, but I did that on the mainland too. It's just using common sense. There is always a chance of being in the wrong place at the wrong time, but I came here for a reason - not to live in fear everyday.

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Posted : July 27, 2008 11:54 am
Betty
(@Betty)
Trusted Member

Here's another way to look at it if you don't like statistics. Now I don't know how well it will apply to the newcomers. But if you've been here a few years this applys. Think about how many victims of crime you new stateside where you lived and how many you know here. I personnally can say in the town I grew up in I knew very few, less then a handful. In the many other states we have lived in I knew none and so on. Here I can't keep track of all the business owners and friends that have been victims of robbery & destruction of property . Some at gun point, some just breaking in when no one is there. None of them were badly hurt, physically at least. This may help some to understand the statistics based on population and why ours is so high.

Now I'm not saying I feel unsafe here, but if I didn't have several big dogs and a federal agent for a husband, there is no way I would live here.

Before everyone says this is a negative bashing post, their are many newbe posters here. I don't generally point out the wonderful things about living here. I feel MOST of those are obvious to anyone who's ever seen a postcard of the islands. Great weather (except for hurricanes) and beautiful scenery. But what I like most about the islands is the small town feel. I know all my neighbors well, I know most everyone downtown C'sted, I love saying good morning to people, etc...

There are many good things about the islands but to live here you MUST be patient and be able to take care of yourself and your family. And be able to pay for private school.

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Posted : July 27, 2008 1:25 pm
antiqueone
(@antiqueone)
Advanced Member

David~ I did do research on the statistics for the US as well as the VI. The statistics are a few years old, but still valid, I believe. As folks have pointed out before, comparison with the other islands is not really usefull. The results are too suspect. The fact is that Washington DC has a violent crime rate (per capita) almost 3 times as high as our islands. Several other states had higher crime rates, too. While I have harped about the crime here, it is nothing compared to the week I spend in Harlem one time. You are very right that the islands are not like a small mid-America country town where crime is almost non-existent except for a few bar fights and speeding tickets. I think living here is more like living in Boston or Philadelphia or, perhaps Milwaukee. Compared to parts of some cities, we are unbelievably peaceful. If you just learn to be aware of your surroundings and don't act like a potential victim, the chances of becoming a victim of crime here are really quite low. I have adjusted to the differences and I am never in fear here. Where I live I go out to look at the stars and take the dogs out at night, my door is unlocked all day unless I am away. Some people I know never lock their doors!

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Posted : July 27, 2008 1:26 pm
Betty
(@Betty)
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Here's a report from this year.

http://www.virginislandsdailynews.com/index.pl/article_home?id=17619494

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Posted : July 27, 2008 1:36 pm
antiqueone
(@antiqueone)
Advanced Member

Interesting. Since we have a population of (roughly) 100,000 and our murder rate was 45/100,000. If you compare with the states ( http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=169) you will see that everywhere else the rate averaged 5-7/100,000 with Louisiana the highest at 12.4/100K in 2006. What is our problem????

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Posted : July 27, 2008 3:53 pm
dntw8up
(@dntw8up)
Trusted Member

"...What is our problem????"

"...huge volumes of cocaine and heroin being shipped to the United States through the Caribbean...the exponential increase in the flow of cocaine and heroin through the region has brought a new wave of drug abuse and attendant violence to the tranquil Caribbean...the U.S. Virgin Islands are [one of] the United States' southern most points of entry, and as such, provide an excellent gateway for drugs destined for cities on the East Coast of the United States..."

http://www.globalsecurity.org/security/library/congress/1998_h/h980312m.htm

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Posted : July 27, 2008 4:27 pm
stxem
(@stx-em)
Trusted Member

Also, as it has been said before, statistics can be presented in many guises. For example, the crime rate in a major city such as New Orleans is going to be significantly higher than rural Louisiana. But, if stats from the cities and rural areas are combined, the average crime rate reported for the entire state is going to decrease significantly. You really have to compare apples with apples and oranges with oranges to get an accurate assessment/understanding. You cannot just compare suburban crime rates or statewide averages to the VI without taking into account we are a high-intensity drug trafficking zone and have high levels of poverty etc etc etc. It would be more appropriate to compare our crime rates with places of similar socioeconomic status in the US.

Yes we have problems, (I say, beating the dead horse over and over and over), but other places under the US flag and all over the world do too. And most of the time, reporting simplistic statistics without looking at what those statistics take into account (i.e. the whole state, or just the inner city, or just suburbia, income levels etc etc) is futile.

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Posted : July 27, 2008 4:56 pm
terry
(@terry)
Expert

Statistics can be misleading.
Fact Potatoes lead to crime!!!
94% of the criminals in prison ate potatoes within a week of committing their crime. Therefore we must ban potatoes!:@)

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Posted : July 27, 2008 5:43 pm
antiqueone
(@antiqueone)
Advanced Member

dntw8up~ I knew that. And stxem~ I knew that too. My concern is that in rural West Virginia or in Rural Maine the poverty is at least as bad as here but people don't go around shooting each other (much) Inner city crime rates are perhaps higher, but we are not an inner city. We are a paradise island. Why, then, do we put up with it?

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Posted : July 27, 2008 5:55 pm
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