Hovensa Sues VI Gov...
 
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Hovensa Sues VI Governmemt

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MissJustice
(@MissJustice)
Trusted Member

hovensa breeched the third extension agreement accruing half billion in liability to us.
DeJongh's excuse in not taking them to court was that we would be tied up in court. So he arranged a fourth extension deal, under their added threat of fuel extortion in 2013.
Then Hovensa arranged the creation of a shell called ABR which would release them from breaching the fourth agreement. Again, under threat of withholding fuel.deJongh signed that too, waiving any liability the company has to us.
Guess what? The sales agreement did not waive their alleged liability to the VI!
Now they are suing us. I guess we go to court anyway.
We should have never signed the fourth agreement.
They were going to take us to court regardless.
We should have never voted in the sales agreement to the shell company of Hovensa named ABR. Thank God.
Meanwhile, St. Croix is enjoying lower gas prices because we went outside of Hovensa's monopoly to get cheap fuel.
And the New Year ushered out the dark DeJongh era of bad deal making, lies about the money for his home upgrades, and overspending. There will be a new sheriff in town in 25 hours. Mapp, Hendersen, and Coffelt will negotiate deals in the best interest of the VI.

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Topic starter Posted : January 4, 2015 11:47 am
speee1dy
(@speee1dy)
Expert

my oh my, and what do they actually hope to get from the government who can not even pay their bills

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Posted : January 4, 2015 2:49 pm
CruzanIron
(@cruzaniron)
Trusted Member

The VI will lose, and Hovensa will become a rusted blight on the landscape.

BUT, that is what all of you wanted, and you will get it.

The VI voted away a fair deal in exchange for nothing at all except a lot of legal fees.

Good Luck.

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Posted : January 4, 2015 3:50 pm
CruzanIron
(@cruzaniron)
Trusted Member

There will be a new sheriff in town in 25 hours. Mapp, Hendersen, and Coffelt will negotiate deals in the best interest of the VI.

Negotiate what deal with whom?

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Posted : January 4, 2015 3:53 pm
MissJustice
(@MissJustice)
Trusted Member

With whomever.

And the VI already lost when we let Hovensa get away with the fourth extension that deJongh signed. We would have lost worse had we given them the $40 million reprieve on the environmental clean up in the failed ABR deal while they still retained the right to sue us. And they did.

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Topic starter Posted : January 4, 2015 8:16 pm
ms411
(@ms411)
Expert

The VI is not competitive on anything. Nothing. If a corporation wants to relocate here, they have the jobs and we have nothing to offer without major concessions. There is nothing Mapp or any other governor can do to overcome our competitive disadvantage.

Missjustice probably believes in Santa and the Tooth Fairy.

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Posted : January 4, 2015 8:59 pm
CruzanIron
(@cruzaniron)
Trusted Member

With whomever.

And the VI already lost when we let Hovensa get away with the fourth extension that deJongh signed. We would have lost worse had we given them the $40 million reprieve on the environmental clean up in the failed ABR deal while they still retained the right to sue us. And they did.

Well, guess what?

Check your sources. The GVI isn't getting the $40 million anyway.

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Posted : January 4, 2015 9:18 pm
CruzanIron
(@cruzaniron)
Trusted Member

The VI is not competitive on anything. Nothing. If a corporation wants to relocate here, they have the jobs and we have nothing to offer without major concessions. There is nothing Mapp or any other governor can do to overcome our competitive disadvantage.
.

BINGO! The DR and PR offer more than we are willing to give up. The VI has no economic incentive like the others - low wages, low cost of doing business, less onerous regulations and so on.

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Posted : January 4, 2015 9:27 pm
MissJustice
(@MissJustice)
Trusted Member

The VI is not competitive on anything. Nothing. If a corporation wants to relocate here, they have the jobs and we have nothing to offer without major concessions. There is nothing Mapp or any other governor can do to overcome our competitive disadvantage.

Missjustice probably believes in Santa and the Tooth Fairy.

It is better to have zero than negative $236 million.

A first year law student could get our clean up fees.
An the VI has a lien on the plant.
Hovensa is contracted to provide fuel until 2019.
There is a whole industry in collecting debt which is as equally important to earning new revenue in this case.
If Hovensa declares bankruptcy, we get access to among other things, the transshipment port.
A bankruptcy trustee can restart the plant just as ABR claimed they would, if it is financially feasible.
Dominican Republic has lower wages yes, but no US flag.

Would have been better too had deCrook not given away $500 million in breech liability.

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Topic starter Posted : January 5, 2015 8:44 am
MissJustice
(@MissJustice)
Trusted Member

Remember, deJongh is the same governor who looked at two bids for road paving: $8 million and $4 million and accept the higher bidder. The winning higher bidder then subcontracted the company with the low bid so that only half the roads would be paved. Would you not look askance at any contract he signed?
Well look no further. Hovensa has now removed any doubt you had about how great the ABR deal was. They are suing and they never gave up any claim to that money by us having signed that deal.

Again, a bad deal is worse than no deal.

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Topic starter Posted : January 5, 2015 9:01 am
CruzanIron
(@cruzaniron)
Trusted Member

If Hovensa declares bankruptcy, we get access to among other things, the transshipment port.

An OIL port. Not a container port. Not a crew ship port. Where is the millions needed to convert to alternate uses going to come from?

We already have the molasses dock (not the old bulkhead, the new one) that is fenced in and completely unused. If we have such great prospects as a major transshipment port, why hasn't that one and Port Alucroix been used already?

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Posted : January 5, 2015 10:05 am
CruzanIron
(@cruzaniron)
Trusted Member

There is a whole industry in collecting debt which is as equally important to earning new revenue in this case.

Yet we can't collect on past due property tax, or past due corporate and individual income taxes. Or past due hospital bills, or electric bills. Yeah, there is a whole industry.

But not here in the VI.

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Posted : January 5, 2015 10:10 am
IslandHops
(@IslandHops)
Trusted Member

Then Hovensa arranged the creation of a shell called ABR which would release them from breaching the fourth agreement.

You keep harping on about how ABR is a shell company set up by Hovensa. I've asked you to provide proof but none has been forthcoming.

If you insist on making speculative accusations I suggest you have the facts to back them up. Otherwise your posts are more likely to be taken as pure gibberish, which would be a shame because sometimes you do have a good point or two sprinkled amongst the usual anti-hovensa rhetoric.

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Posted : January 5, 2015 1:14 pm
MissJustice
(@MissJustice)
Trusted Member

First of all, they are not going to make their association known to any of us. It kinda defeats the purpose of tricking us into signing the agreement.
1. ABR was formed 3 days after Hovensa agreement passed. Fact. The documents are publicly available and they testified to those dates openly in the senate. Present me documents to the contrary if you can.
2. They do not have a dollar to start, run, clean up, or repair a refinery. Also testified to in the senate hearings.
3. They have no refinery experience. One of the five has a rinky dink law office in Stx. He notarized the corporate documents himself in his haste to create the shell. Really?
4. They have no material assets.

It doesn't even matter what I allege or what you defend.
A. The deal sucked.
B. They refused to guarantee a refinery restart.

We can do badly on our own.

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Topic starter Posted : January 5, 2015 10:47 pm
MissJustice
(@MissJustice)
Trusted Member

If Hovensa declares bankruptcy, we get access to among other things, the transshipment port.

An OIL port. Not a container port. Not a crew ship port. Where is the millions needed to convert to alternate uses going to come from?

We already have the molasses dock (not the old bulkhead, the new one) that is fenced in and completely unused. If we have such great prospects as a major transshipment port, why hasn't that one and Port Alucroix been used already?

Do you mean "crew" ship or cruise ship?
Well, now that the governor who went with the double higher bidder for road repairs is gone, we might have real negotiation as the the fate of the plant and its assets that are in the best interests of the VI

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Topic starter Posted : January 5, 2015 10:51 pm
CruzanIron
(@cruzaniron)
Trusted Member

You didn't answer my question.

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Posted : January 6, 2015 1:10 am
MissJustice
(@MissJustice)
Trusted Member

We can use the millions in overbid money that Dejongh to select for higher bidders.

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Topic starter Posted : January 6, 2015 7:23 am
Anonny-mouse
(@anonny-mouse)
Advanced Member

Remember, deJongh is the same governor who looked at two bids for road paving: $8 million and $4 million and accept the higher bidder. The winning higher bidder then subcontracted the company with the low bid so that only half the roads would be paved.

What contract on which island are you referring to? I have seen newly paved roads that deteriorated rather quickly (like the one connecting Midland Rd to Bethlehem area on STX), but I don't remember an instance where only half of the road(s?) got paved.

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Posted : January 6, 2015 8:31 am
CruzanIron
(@cruzaniron)
Trusted Member

We can use the millions in overbid money that Dejongh to select for higher bidders.

That does not make any sense. The GVI is broke. Where is the money for turning the Hovensa port into a cruise ship port or a break bulk cargo port going to come from?

And if it was economically feasible, why have the molasses dock or Port Alucroix not already been used for that purpose?

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Posted : January 6, 2015 9:26 am
IslandHops
(@IslandHops)
Trusted Member

There is still no proof showing that Hovensa set up ABR - just idle speculation.

There are already functioning trans shipment docks in many locations, including PR, and the Chinese are building out infrastructure in Jamaica. There are cheaper and less restrictive locations to operate. I also do not think the GVI is capable of funding and operating a profitable, safe refinery. They struggle to run a functional safe hospital.

The GVI is running a deficit and Mapp's immediate plan is to leverage future tax revenue to increase current funds available. Looks good for the short term from some perspective but leverages the future of the VI even worse from where we stand today. It didn't work in PR and probably won't work here.

Let's see what Mapp has up his sleeve for the refinery site.

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Posted : January 6, 2015 11:23 am
vicanuck
(@vicanuck)
Expert

The GVI is going to have to cough up Hovensa's $230+ million tax refund first.

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Posted : January 6, 2015 11:36 am
ms411
(@ms411)
Expert

DeJongh has already pledged many future revenues so I don't think Mapp will have any revenues to leverage. He's going to need a miracle.

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Posted : January 6, 2015 12:02 pm
CruzanIron
(@cruzaniron)
Trusted Member

The legislature approved a budget based on anticipated Hovensa revenues that they are not going to receive. I wonder how Mapp is going to make payroll? AND pay an outside legal firm to represent the VI in this case.

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Posted : January 6, 2015 12:05 pm
SunnyCaribe
(@SunnyCaribe)
Advanced Member

The territory has a lien on a property that is worth millions of dollars LESS than $0. The legislature has been so keen to view the refinery itself as an asset, when in fact it is a massive liability. But, at least it's shiny.

The ABR deal was a distraction, and I'm glad it failed, although that was an accidental victory on the part of the territory. With efficient and well managed refineries closing all over the world and oil at record low prices there was no way that ours could have been operated profitably.

The suit against the territory makes sense: as a business entity Hovensa has to account for all the money it spent and is owed. There is no way they can collect, but there is a real danger that they can leverage that debt to release themselves from any further obligations to STX, leaving us with a toxic waste disaster.

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Posted : January 6, 2015 12:32 pm
vicanuck
(@vicanuck)
Expert

Good analysis SunnyCarib.

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Posted : January 6, 2015 12:38 pm
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