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OT: HR3200 - you may read the health care reform bill as it develops

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trw
 trw
(@trw)
Expert

you know after years of living i'm a socialist i truly do believe that we need to take care of each other,i think healthcare ,energy and everything else that benifets us as as apopulation needs to be taken care of

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Posted : August 14, 2009 10:25 am
dougtamjj
(@dougtamjj)
Expert

I have been reading it and urge everyone to do so. We do not need to reinvent the wheel here nor does the government need to rush this through without everyone understanding. I for one have many questions and and don't like a lot of what I am reading. Yes we do need reform but we did not get to this state overnight and nor should we try to fix things overnight. I personally do not want the government to control my health care. Government should be to protect and serve not run and control.

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Posted : August 14, 2009 11:19 am
dougtamjj
(@dougtamjj)
Expert

Well trw, it seems that you and the majority of the population or those that vote anyway feel the same way. As for me, I put my big girl panties on years ago and decided to take care of myself. I have worked my butt off to take care of myself, family, and extended family. I'll be damned if I lay down and let the government take over my life and all I have worked for to take care of people who want the government to take care of them at my expense. Just call me bubba.

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Posted : August 14, 2009 11:51 am
trw
 trw
(@trw)
Expert

sigh,discussion by the "citizens" is the perfect way for nothing to happen, you see the bubbas on tv how can you discuss anything with them

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Posted : August 14, 2009 2:00 pm
trw
 trw
(@trw)
Expert

um well i for one don'ntwant to see the "citizens" involved after seeing all the bubbas on tv,it makes me ashamed to be an american

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Posted : August 14, 2009 2:13 pm
trw
 trw
(@trw)
Expert

this is something the "citizens" do not need to be involved with, all those bubbas on tv make me ashamed to be an american, we need reform and these idiots are too afraid to do anything, i guess the deciding idiocy factor for me was when when i saw some hag with a sign that said "keep your government hands off my medicare" i mean really how stupid can this woman be

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Posted : August 14, 2009 2:30 pm
Trade
(@Trade)
Expert

So only you should be able to voice an opinion, trw?

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Posted : August 14, 2009 2:35 pm
trw
 trw
(@trw)
Expert

yup cause i'm right all the time,we as a nation need to take care of ALL our citizens,not just those that can pay, a country is decided by how that country takes care of it's poorest citizens and once again i'm pretty much always right

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Posted : August 14, 2009 2:47 pm
Trade
(@Trade)
Expert

That's debatable. 😀

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Posted : August 14, 2009 2:57 pm
trw
 trw
(@trw)
Expert

and tam do you honestly think that i" the trw" have ever taken a goverment handout

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Posted : August 14, 2009 2:58 pm
Novanut
(@novanut)
Trusted Member

yup cause i'm right all the time,we as a nation need to take care of ALL our citizens,not just those that can pay, a country is decided by how that country takes care of it's poorest citizens and once again i'm pretty much always right

Sorry. Couldn't help but add one more bubba to the mix. I just hope you still think you're right when BHO and his Chicago thugs tell you when and where you can get your healthcare. And I hope your tune won't change when age creeps up on you and you need a hip, heart or any other body part. BHO will evaluate you and your age and point you towards his death panel where you can get all the answers to your questions on how to get the heck outta dodge. Maybe ACORN will come to your rescue. But I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.

If we all have been brainwashed, I'm glad mine was on the Constitution and the freedoms granted us.

Have a socialistic day.

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Posted : August 14, 2009 3:07 pm
EngRMP
(@EngRMP)
Advanced Member

I had a few problems with the Mackey article:

"Health care is a service that we all need, but just like food and shelter it is best provided through voluntary and mutually beneficial market exchanges."
I think this misses a few crucial distinctions:
- food is something you have very little trouble affording from week to week
- shelter is something you can take loans out for
- unfortunately healthcare requirements are not well defined for each individual... do you know how much healthcare you will need in your lifetime?
- few of us could actually save enough to pay for our lifetime's amount of required healthcare. So, the concept of insurance provides a mechanism for the people behind us (and around us) in life to pay for us, as we will have paid for the people in front of us. It's like a legal Ponzi scheme... it works as long as the population is growing.
- so, to me, healthcare seems more like a Social Security type problem... you need to pool the resources of everyone to make it work. OK, I know no one is happy with SS, but is that really because people are living longer and therefore could work longer, but we start SS distributions too soon?

"Repeal government mandates regarding what insurance companies must cover" + "Remove the legal obstacles that slow the creation of high-deductible health insurance plans and health savings accounts" + "Enact tort reform to end the ruinous lawsuits that force doctors to pay insurance costs of hundreds of thousands of dollars per year."
Ouch, what's the use of getting insurance!? It won't cover anything... you'll pay all of the costs... you'll have to pick your services carefully... and if your limited shot at care results in a problem, tough, don't think about suing the doctor, because if you lose, you'll pay (who do you think will have the better legal team?). I know... let's see if we can get legal insurance...

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Posted : August 14, 2009 3:40 pm
Novanut
(@novanut)
Trusted Member

Curious... How does one enact tort reform when the foxes, er, lawyers are guarding the henhouse? And why won't anyone in congress agree to give up their insurance and go on the one they want us to have?

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Posted : August 14, 2009 4:03 pm
trw
 trw
(@trw)
Expert

yup ur brainwashed,europe would be nazi germany if it had been left up to the "citizens" of the usa, no matter the cost why on earth would you not want your fellow citizens to be healthy,jeez how elitest is that,lol and people think i'm a snob

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Posted : August 14, 2009 4:15 pm
trw
 trw
(@trw)
Expert

and face it,we'd still have dead jews,fags,gypsies and blacks in bondagei if was left up to the "citizens"some time it takes a "real" person to stand up to the "mob"

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Posted : August 14, 2009 4:43 pm
Novanut
(@novanut)
Trusted Member

yup ur brainwashed,europe would be nazi germany if it had been left up to the "citizens" of the usa, no matter the cost why on earth would you not want your fellow citizens to be healthy,jeez how elitest is that,lol and people think i'm a snob

Wow. Europe would be nazi's? Who do you think kept them from being nazis? Last I checked, it was the citizens of the USA and other countries.

My fellow citizens are those who take personal responsibility for their health, actions and deeds. They don't expect the government to take care of them from cradle to grave.

Dead Jews, etc.? I think your mama must have dropped you on your head a couple of times...

Define real person. Define mob.

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Posted : August 14, 2009 5:04 pm
trw
 trw
(@trw)
Expert

remember america was isolationist at the time the citizens did not want to go to war and help europe, roosevelt forced the country into war only AFTER pearl harbor,no one cared before that,not that many people cared about slavery BEFORE lincoln freed them, working class americans did not want the slaves freed because they knew they'd come north and compete for jobs,americans just do not want to be bothered until a crisis comes along and are forced into something, and kiss my crack over the dropped on the head thing,read your history

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Posted : August 14, 2009 5:13 pm
Bombi
(@Bombi)
Trusted Member

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

World Health Organization Ranking of Health care by Country
The US is 37th, pathetic.

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Posted : August 15, 2009 12:55 am
Ms Information
(@Ms_Information)
Advanced Member

Health care reform has now become one of the most volatile issues in America. I am shocked and saddened that so many people are using this issue to ATTACK President Obama. Many (see lou dobbs...etc) finally have the hook they need to attack the president without being called a racist.

It is time to separate health care reform from President Obama and to show it's strength and weakness as an American need. I totally reject all of the Slow Down, do it right arguments. There is NO WAY that congress and all of the $pecial Int erest groups will write a healthcare plan that I agree with ...ever. There is NO WAY that $pecial interest will write a healthcare plan that even the most rabid right wing will agree with ...ever. HOWEVER, it is time to write a plan that we can live with and hopefully improve as time goes on. The $pecial interest in conjunction with the radical racists have formed a coalition that is desperately trying to sink health care reform.

I am on Medicare...Medicare works, and so can a national health plan. Stop with the socialist bulls##t, we have been doing this for over 60 years. I blame ignorance and the right wing for the Distortions that we hear from the bleating ANTI REFORM media .

I have as much to lose as anyone. I am on Medicare and can't afford anything else. But.. I support a change. Stop listening to the $pecial interest and their mouthpiece s at FOX News and support it

IT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO.....

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Posted : August 15, 2009 1:41 am
Jules
(@Jules)
Trusted Member

Ms Information, you said that Medicare works.

What exactly do you mean by that?

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Posted : August 15, 2009 8:34 am
Ms Information
(@Ms_Information)
Advanced Member

Ms Information, you said that Medicare works.

What exactly do you mean by that?

Medicare works, by providing excellent medical insurance to social security recipients at an affordable cost. As an example, I pay about $90 a month for my Part B (hospital,etc) coverage and $25 a month for my prescription coverage. If I was younger and went on the "open" market my costs would be more like $600 or $700 a month, over $8000 a year, if I could even qualify to get insurance. Which I would not be able to do.

My coverage if I pay for a supplement is almost 100%. I had cancer surgery two years ago and the billed costs were well over $90,000, I paid $527 out of pocket. Medicare's problems are with the insurance companies and providers that are stealing from the government, not with the people who use it.

I think that a system like Medicare should be offered to EVERYONE who wants it. I am not talking about giving everyone a free ride, everyone should pay according to their own ability.

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Posted : August 15, 2009 2:56 pm
stxfoodie
(@stxfoodie)
Advanced Member

Novanut - thought you'd enjoy this quote from one of the great elected representatives of our time..

"I think we've been through a period where too many people have been given to understand that if they have a problem, it's the government's job to cope with it. 'I have a problem, I'll get a grant.' 'I'm homeless, the government must house me.' They're casting their problem on society. And you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It's our duty to look after ourselves and then, also, to look after our neighbour. People have got the entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations. There's no such thing as entitlement, unless someone has first met an obligation."

Regars -

STXfoodie

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Posted : August 15, 2009 5:02 pm
Jules
(@Jules)
Trusted Member

The problem is that there is not enough funding to keep Medicare afloat-- or I guess there could be if we all pay a lot more in taxes.

Medicare certainly is a good deal from a user standpoint, but it is not sustainable. Expenditures have increased exponentially over the years. You can see the numbers on table F9 on this Congressional Budget Office document: http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/89xx/doc8917/AppendixF.14.1.shtml#1068735 The next table on the page (table F10) shows Medicare and Medicaid costs expressed as a percent of Gross Domestic Product. Look at the rate at which those numbers have grown in recent years! Yikes!

Plus, as I've detailed in other posts, many doctors claim that they lose money when they treat Medicare patients-- so profits have to be obtained elsewhere (private insurance patients, ownership of surgical centers, etc). That's not good...

Big changes are needed to decrease the actual costs delivering health care-- something other than just further cuts to provider reimbursement.

Hopefully whatever is ultimately done to reform health care will address ways to lower the cost of health care, not just tax us all to get more people "insured".

I also hope that any reform provides for the training of LOTS more doctors (and nurses)-- especially primary care. We're going to need them. We're going to need them sooner than they can be trained.

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Posted : August 15, 2009 5:20 pm
Michaelds9
(@Michaelds9)
Advanced Member

Ms Information, you said that Medicare works.

What exactly do you mean by that?

Medicare works, by providing excellent medical insurance to social security recipients at an affordable cost. .

Affordable cost to WHO?
It sure as hell isn't affordable to me when the feds steal from me a large percentage of my income - and now you want to make slaves of my children to pay for all these free rides? Make no mistake it is stealing. I know of few people working willingly to June each year to pay "their fair share" as determined by our pampered electors - who by the way have declined to sign a pledge to use the same systems they want to and do impose upon the hoi polloi.....

And you wanna call me a racist because I see Obama as intent on destroying the USA? 47 years young and he has all the answers? Talk about arrogance.....

I will agree health care costs are high but can you give me a pie chart showing me where the money goes? If you can not then how can you expect me to sign on for any changes?

misinformation indeed!

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Posted : August 15, 2009 5:29 pm
Ms Information
(@Ms_Information)
Advanced Member

Ms Information, you said that Medicare works.

What exactly do you mean by that?

Medicare works, by providing excellent medical insurance to social security recipients at an affordable cost. .

Affordable cost to WHO?
It sure as hell isn't affordable to me when the feds steal from me a large percentage of my income - and now you want to make slaves of my children to pay for all these free rides? Make no mistake it is stealing. I know of few people working willingly to June each year to pay "their fair share" as determined by our pampered electors - who by the way have declined to sign a pledge to use the same systems they want to and do impose upon the hoi polloi.....

And you wanna call me a racist because I see Obama as intent on destroying the USA? 47 years young and he has all the answers? Talk about arrogance.....

I will agree health care costs are high but can you give me a pie chart showing me where the money goes? If you can not then how can you expect me to sign on for any changes?

misinformation indeed!

The only thing I will comment on is your outrageous statement that "...Obama as intent on destroying the USA". Where do you get that crap? Are you wearing your tinfoil cap so you are protected from the death rays? I think that President Obama is the best President I have seen in my lifetime. He is intelligent, pragmatic and inclusive. He is trying to make all Americans better people. I wish him good luck, there are some people he will never be able to reach.

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Posted : August 15, 2009 11:06 pm
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