proposal to move ro...
 

proposal to move road at cane bay  

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lily1025
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May 31, 2011 5:18 pm  

does anyone know the current status of this proposal?i think this is one we should all watch and follow closely. in my opinion,it sounds to me like mosler's intention is to make public access to cane bay difficult and to try to turn it into a private beach abutting his personal property.


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Jumbie
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May 31, 2011 7:34 pm  

I have heard nothing since the "town hall" meeting held at Eat @ Cane Bay May 17th. In spite of the approximately 100+ people in attendance, saying no way to this proposal, I would bet that Mr. Mosler remains undeterred. The local people all suspicion Mosler wants to privatize his Cane Bay property by re-routing Highway 80 in order to have a beachfront property with no road between the restaurant & the beach. The value of property as is vs beachfront property would definitely benefit Mosler financially. All the reasons given in the re-routing of Highway 80 were a sham & coverup to the real reason. Taking away the only public beach on St Croix that you can drive up to destroys the very character of this unique place on St Croix.

Last week on 93.5FM talk radio with Kim Jones, Paul Chakroff (St Croix Environmental Assoc) was a guest on the show. He had been at this May 17th meeting and basically said he is in the process of gathering facts, data, etc as the agency's responsibility, so he can objectively testify in front of CZM if it reaches that stage. Senator Sanes was also at the meeting and I'm sure he got the point that the overwhelming majority of the residents in attendence DO NOT WANT want Mosler's proposal to succeed.

Writing letters to the senators and objecting to CZM are about the only ways I know of stopping this. Everyone knows Mosler will continue to push ahead on this until he is stopped by CZM..

Jumbie-STX

Keith Crilow


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Cruz
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June 1, 2011 3:20 am  

(td) HELL NAW!!! :-X This ain't happening. This guy wants to turn Cane Bay into his own little private beach!


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roadrunner
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June 1, 2011 4:12 pm  

Taking away the only public beach on St Croix that you can drive up to destroys the very character of this unique place on St Croix.

I fully agree that Cane Bay should be left the way it is and that it's a fantastic beach, but there ARE other public beaches you can drive up to on STX... Cramer's Park, most of the west end, and Columbus Landing come to mind immediately, and I know there are others.

But yes, Cane Bay is a special place and should be left alone.


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Jumbie
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June 1, 2011 6:01 pm  

Roadrunner -- Sorry my mistake & you are correct. What I should have stated is Cane Bay is the only public beach on the "north shore" that you can drive up to.

Ya know this Mosler guy ruined Grassy Point for the public (tourists and locals). Before he bought this piece of land on the SE shore line of STX, you could drive off the road down toward the ocean a short ways and then walk a short distance to a piece of land that stuck out into the ocean. There were some beautiful views of the Carribean sea breaking on the rocks below & some other nice vistas. Since Mosler bought it there is a chain link guard "fence" blocking entrance off the road to Grassy Point plus he built a structure on it. So in effect he privatized this land and it's off limits to the public. According to St Croix Environmental Association, Mosler found some obscure loophole in the current CZM regulations/ law & built a structure valued at more than $70,000 on this land. Bottom line to my rambling : Mosler is all about his own personal gain & to hades with the general public..

Jumbie -STX.

Keith Crilow


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Neil
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June 1, 2011 7:48 pm  

I've read the proposal online, and I live a short drive from CB and use the beach and road quite a bit.

It bothers me that some people are against it because they assume Mosler has ulterior motives.
That kind of knee-jerk, anti-improvement reaction has not served the island well.

There may be problems with the proposal, but anyone who has been in the CB area on the weekend knows that CB has a serious problem, and it is getting worse. CB is attracting more and more folks, especially on weekends. And it has become a popular destination for the cruiseships. And who is taking care of it? Mosler and the local businesses who rent space from him.

The businesses at CaneBay need more than just restaurant reviews and patronage. They need more parking, and better parking. The lots are in crappy shape and the area turns into a swamp after the rain. The erosion is intense. The run-off across erodes the beach after storms, and it affects the quality of the water as well.

The area needs public bathrooms and there is no other area to put them, except on private property, ...Mosler's property.

While its obvious that re-routing the road behind the diveshop isn't an ideal solution, it may be the only one, unless he wants to tear down the restaurant and relocate it. There's no issue with the road going through his property because it would be a permanent easement... a significant concession by a property owner.

So far, Mosler seems to have been generous by providing free parking on his private property. But without some cooperation and coordination, he would be within his rights to block non-customers from using his property (crapping in the bushes, throwing their trash, taking up spaces for paying customers, etc). Then what? Wait for the VI govt to get involved? Right.

The proposal is a starting point. I particularly like the way it increases the depth of the beach.


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Jumbie
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June 1, 2011 8:43 pm  

Neil --- you are a minority in your opinion and if you were at the May 17th meeting, you would have been seen the outrage displayed at this proposal.. Mosler is not generous in allowing people to park on his private property -give me a break!! It has nothing to do with being unfair towards Mosler. The residents and some other business owners on this part of the island don't believe for one nano-second that he doesn't have ulterior motives. Change sometimes is good and in this case several things could be changed to improve parking, safety, beach erosion etc.

There hasn't been a car accident or person injured from being hit by a car in many many years. You sound like you had a hand in the dreaming up that "reason" because it was the 1st one on the proposal as to why the change should occur. And as for parking - wow a whole 16 parking places are listed on the proposal. Come on give me a break that Mosler's proposal would improve the parking. There are a whole lot of other ways to improve the parking.

This property is leased to Cane Bay Dive shop, Virgin Kayak, & Eat @ Cane Bay so if Mosler was generous, he'd improve improve the parking, restrooms, landscaping on the land side of the road, without re-routing the road and changing the beach. Hey he bought a piece of property that has 3 commercial business on it -- so cough up some $$ and improve the land side of the property.

Jumbie-STX

Keith Crilow


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Cruz
 Cruz
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June 2, 2011 12:53 am  

I've read the proposal online, and I live a short drive from CB and use the beach and road quite a bit.

It bothers me that some people are against it because they assume Mosler has ulterior motives.
That kind of knee-jerk, anti-improvement reaction has not served the island well.

There may be problems with the proposal, but anyone who has been in the CB area on the weekend knows that CB has a serious problem, and it is getting worse. CB is attracting more and more folks, especially on weekends. And it has become a popular destination for the cruiseships. And who is taking care of it? Mosler and the local businesses who rent space from him.

The businesses at CaneBay need more than just restaurant reviews and patronage. They need more parking, and better parking. The lots are in crappy shape and the area turns into a swamp after the rain. The erosion is intense. The run-off across erodes the beach after storms, and it affects the quality of the water as well.

The area needs public bathrooms and there is no other area to put them, except on private property, ...Mosler's property.

While its obvious that re-routing the road behind the diveshop isn't an ideal solution, it may be the only one, unless he wants to tear down the restaurant and relocate it. There's no issue with the road going through his property because it would be a permanent easement... a significant concession by a property owner.

So far, Mosler seems to have been generous by providing free parking on his private property. But without some cooperation and coordination, he would be within his rights to block non-customers from using his property (crapping in the bushes, throwing their trash, taking up spaces for paying customers, etc). Then what? Wait for the VI govt to get involved? Right.

The proposal is a starting point. I particularly like the way it increases the depth of the beach.

I've read that same proposal which only contained a bunch of hypothetical nonsense with absolutely no facts.

And as for your long winded comments, none of it justifies re-routing this road and giving Mosler a beach front property.


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rhstoo
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June 2, 2011 1:58 am  

I attended the meeting. The project manager was remarkably unprepared and inelequent. The crowd was remarkably rude. My feeling was a pox on both houses. There's probably a good answer but I don't see it coming from the people who presented or screamed. Sorry.


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wpcl
 wpcl
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June 2, 2011 3:12 am  

As politely as possible-as property investor / yearly visitor to this area(Cane Bay)-this would sadden me. It would change the nature of the area, which is why I planned on it for retirement in the first place. I was hoping to find one last place where bluecollar paradise could be found, but I guess I'm 20 yrs too late.

It's such a shame that "underdevelopment" can't be considered an advantage, sometimes-for local, and potentially local people.

Biz person myself, understand economics, but was just looking for the community that Cane Bay is. Hope it's not lost.


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Neil
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June 2, 2011 11:46 am  

Wp- the issue isn't "change or no change" because the area has already changed, --for the worse. What's missing here is govt leadership (no surprise) so the principal landowner has put forth a reasonable idea. It may not be the best one but it's better than doing nothing and should spur positive discussion about needs rather than "shoot the messenger" arguments.

I agree that Mosler could just rebuild his lots. But why should he pay for providing parking to NON patrons without something in return? (such as the govt agreeing to improve some things). btw... Never met the man.


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Bombi
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June 2, 2011 1:52 pm  

On Oahu when a developer wants to build on seaside property, they require that a beach park with showers and restrooms be built and that there is parking for about 20 cars,then it is turned over to the government.
Under that road there is most likely beach sand and the remains of a once natural dune. I'm keeping an open mind and listening to SEA

optimist with low expectations on STX


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Linda J
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June 4, 2011 2:59 pm  

I too was at this meeting. If I am not mistaken, the parking spaces mentioned, 16, I think, were the TOTAL number of spaces for all three business and the beach parking. This is actually a decrease in the available parking.

My other concern was for the configuration of the road. The road would go from sea level to about 18 feet above sea level and contain 2 rather sharp curves on each end of the Mosler property.

The fact that the presenter was totally unprepared was also a turn off to me. If the developer can't make a coherent presentation, how can we expect them to follow through with such an extensive project? Proper preparation would have included some copies of the proposal or at least before and after schematics. He didn't even plan for voice amplification!!

But I will agree that the crowd could have been more respectful.

Senator Sanes was there. I would suggest voicing opinions of the project to him. He has an e-mail address on the legislature's website and is very good about responding to e-mails.


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Hugh Jundys
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June 5, 2011 3:17 am  

If anyone wants to view the proposal it's online (find link from this page)... http://www.northshorestcroix.com/blog/

Note the actual parking spaces are 16 on one side, 10 on the other, then 20+ in the field across the road.


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Jim Dandy
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June 5, 2011 12:37 pm  

After reviewing the presentation it certainly appears that this road relocation paid for by the property owner would enhance the beach by moving traffic away from beach goers. My wife and I don't go to Cane Bay very often on weekends because who wants to sit so close to traffic.

With the way people park there currently I'm amazed that there haven't been any accidents, I won't park on the roadside because I'm always concerned my car will get side swiped. Adding two more bends to this already curvy road doesn't seem like a big deal particularly if the speed limit is reduced to 20 mph.

I have a hard time seeing why there is so much resistance to this project. Is it because people naturally resist change?

If people in the Cane Bay area are worried about development then they really need to be concerned about what is going to happen if someone purchases the 672' Morningstar property just down the road to the West . Apparently it is already zoned for hotel/ resort construction.

Jim


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terry
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June 5, 2011 3:55 pm  

I love the fact that you can pull up along side of the road and park so close to the beach. It's part of the charm. Unlike many area on other islands where you have to park blocks away and cart all of your stuff.
I do think that some speed bumps would slow down traffic, which is needed.


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Linda J
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June 5, 2011 4:33 pm  

While I am not against progress, change for the sake of change is not progress. I can certainly understand Mosler wanting to consolidate his property, but saying it's for the "safety of the community" is bull. I too, like the vibe of being able to park so close too the beach. I do like the idea of speed bumps. Also, if the VI government could buy another 6-8 feet along the fence (or if the land were donated to the community in the name of safety), we could have pull-in parking - more spaces and safer.


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Jumbie
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June 5, 2011 4:54 pm  

--Jim Dandy --I have a hard time seeing why there is so much resistance to this project. Is it because people naturally resist change?

I will offer my opinion on this -- It has nothing to do with "naturally reisisting change"..I would say at least 99% of those in attendance at the May 17th proposal meeting don't trust him (Mr. Mosler). This view is based on some of his other business dealings on St Croix. He is also viewed as another super wealthy person who think they can come to St Croix , "push" the locals around as need be to do whatever pleases their ego/pocketbook, buy whatever, and buy off those necessary in order to get what they want. Also these same doubters of Mosler remember what happened years ago with Carambola Beach & how it was changed (not for the better) with parking in lot south of the hotel plus the beach was changed.

Mr Mosler came in here in 2003 with one of his companies, Valance. I'm sure it was because of EDC benefits. I aggree with Linda J that Mosler's proposal for a safer community is a bunch of baloney.. I also agree with her that there are easier and more community friendly ways to make this section of the road safer by having "off the road parking on the beach side of the road.

Most would wish Mosler would go back to CT where he ran as an Independent in the 2010 U.S. Senate race. However Mosler rec'd only .98% of CT vote.

BTW - It's Northstar not Morningstar. As for developing that - no problem ; go for it.

Jumbie -STX

Keith Crilow


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Cruz
 Cruz
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June 5, 2011 9:24 pm  

I have a hard time seeing why there is so much resistance to this project. Is it because people naturally resist change?

Jim

sigh.....now folks are playing the "resistance to change" card.....smh


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Neil
 Neil
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June 6, 2011 1:17 pm  

re: "Speed Bumps"
What is with this island and its speed bumps? :S

I don't mind it when cars park along the road ...most of the time.
The problem is when they park on both sides of the road, then it gets crazy.

But let's remember that the problem isn't just with parking. There's a serious beach quality and erosion issue going on. Would also like to see them address the swamp and road flooding issue east of the beach. It's nasty after every good rain.


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Jumbie
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June 6, 2011 3:04 pm  

But let's remember that the problem isn't just with parking. There's a serious beach quality and erosion issue going on. Would also like to see them address the swamp and road flooding issue east of the beach. It's nasty after every good rain.

The water that comes across the road east of Cane Bay Beach is from the old Cane Bay Hotel property, which is still for sale as far as I know. I am fairly certain Mosler's property boundry line is west of where water is on road. There is a large amount of acerage draining into
this "valley" ending up with the swampy area just shy of the road and everybody knows VI gov't isn't gonna do anything because the run off ends up in the ocean, just like a bunch of other places on this island.

Jumbie -STX

Keith Crilow


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Neil
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June 6, 2011 8:21 pm  

The water that comes across the road east of Cane Bay Beach is from the old Cane Bay Hotel property, which is still for sale as far as I know. I am fairly certain Mosler's property boundry line is west of where water is on road. There is a large amount of acerage draining into
this "valley" ending up with the swampy area just shy of the road and everybody knows VI gov't isn't gonna do anything because the run off ends up in the ocean, just like a bunch of other places on this island.

Jumbie -STX

One nice thing about Mosler's plan is that it creates run-off holding areas. Maybe the VI govt would address the swamp as part of a larger plan. The run-off fouls the sand and hurts the reef.

I also heard that the road has some kind of special govt status. Anybody know about that?


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Jumbie
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June 6, 2011 8:51 pm  

Neil (I also heard that the road has some kind of special govt status. Anybody know about that?)

All I know is that over $600,000 of Federal (U.S.) funds were used to repave the North Shore road from just above Cane Bay Reef Club to the stop sign just before you go up the "Beast" in 2010. I don't know anything about special gov't status.

Jumbie -STX

Keith Crilow


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STXBob
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June 6, 2011 9:19 pm  

I also heard that the road has some kind of special govt status. Anybody know about that?

The presenter at the "town hall" meeting held at Eat @ Cane Bay May 17th said that:
- The current road is a right-of-way, which I think means it's private property that the public can use for transportation purposes, and
- The loop road proposal would give the government ownership of the new road.

The presenter also said that Spratnet was supposed to provide public restrooms on Spratnet's plot as part of Spratnet's land lease agreement with the government.


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Jumbie
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June 7, 2011 10:06 am  

I also heard that the road has some kind of special govt status. Anybody know about that?

The presenter at the "town hall" meeting held at Eat @ Cane Bay May 17th said that:
- The current road is a right-of-way, which I think means it's private property that the public can use for transportation purposes, and
- The loop road proposal would give the government ownership of the new road.

The presenter also said that Spratnet was supposed to provide public restrooms on Spratnet's plot as part of Spratnet's land lease agreement with the government.

I know it was said & it is in presentation that the current road is a right-of-way, but who knows for sure if that is true or is yet another bunch of "baloney" and that also goes for the public restroom thing @ Spratnet. I know right now their "restroom" is something you avoid unless you absolutely have to use it. If Mosler's property has this special gov't status for Rt 80, do other places like Off The Wall also have Rt 80 that borders their property as a right-of-way as well?. Only a check with the appropriate gov't office would reveal the true status of Rt 80 along Cane Bay.

Jumbie -STX.

Keith Crilow


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