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christineg
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February 18, 2007 9:42 pm  

Today I learned that the horse we all worked so hard to rescue, died this morning. It apparently was doing well until 8:00 a.m. this morning, when it started to fall down, and his organs started to shut down. I was so deeply saddened, but at least we saved his companion from suffering the same fate. Just thought you would want to know.


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dougtamjj
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February 18, 2007 10:34 pm  

Thank you Christineg, I am so sorry to hear that news. I wish I had acted faster as my children saw the horse about a week before I did. You are a really good person for trying so hard to save the horse and thank goodness for you that your quick action has saved the other horse. Take care.
Tammy


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jane
 jane
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February 19, 2007 12:22 am  

I'm so sorry - at least it died with food in its belly and a kind hand on its shoulder. Now, let's get the owner hung.


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STT Resident
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February 19, 2007 1:04 am  

Christineg, I was afraid of that from your first post about these horses. Any news about going after the owner of these horses under the animal abuse laws? Please follow through with this. The animal protection laws which were finally enacted in the V.I. took so long to become law and the fight was long and hard but they are there on the books.

Unfortunately only the drive of the community voice will bring these cases into the courtroom and ensure that these animal owners will not only heavily pay either in fines or jail time but that such sentences will send a message to the community at large that such abuses will not only go un-noticed but will be reported and judged accordingly.

The correlation between animal abuse and child abuse is widely documented, as is the segueing of animal abusers to serial killings. Abuse begets abuse.

The person who owned these horses probably just didn't THINK about the responsibility he had towards them. He probably assumed that animals can fend for themselves and he's probably not so much cruel as totally ignorant.

Please do follow up so that he can maybe learn a lesson and that others will pay attention. Thanks so much!


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christineg
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February 19, 2007 10:56 am  

There is a woman who was working with me on the horse, and she is the one who initially found them. She has family on the island, even though she does not live here. She and her family are afraid of repercussions. Apparently not too long ago, someone found a horse in distress and did not get permission to take the horse. The owners found the horse, poured gasoline on it and set it on fire. I would have no problem going after the owners, but she asked me to consider her family who is still here on island.


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STT Resident
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February 19, 2007 12:42 pm  

Were the horses removed to the Department of Agriculture? Surely they and the vet who cared for them can go forward with verifying ownership and having these people charged? Neither the woman who found the horses nor her family need get involved at all but someone on STX must please follow up. As long as such owners aren't held accountable history will repeat itself. YEARS of effort by countless people went into getting the animal abuse laws finally on the books.


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Gari-Ann in TX
 Gari-Ann in TX
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February 19, 2007 2:11 pm  

I'm so happy to hear that there are people who cared enough to try to save the horse. I'm so sad he passed, but you did good! ((hugs)) I hate seeing such beautiful creatures of any species treated like trash. I think God shakes his head when he sees these things happening, wondering why his beautiful creatures are treated in such a way. thanks for trying, you have a great heart. 🙂

I think there is a special place reserved in heaven for people like that man and Christeneg.

I really believe that. And I also think there's a special place in h*ll for those who abuse/neglect animals. Grrr!


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Anonymous
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February 19, 2007 2:52 pm  

I hope the owner(s) of those poor horses has an unfortunate "accident".


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christineg
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February 19, 2007 6:56 pm  

Thanks everyone. The horses were taken to the Ag Dept. and the vet did say he wanted to prosecute, and my friend is really trying to not let this happen. I am of the opinion that they DO need to be prosecuted as well. Maybe the vet will go and do it anyway. The vet knew the owner just by the names of the horses. I think they raced here and they were somewhat in the money. I had a bad cell connection when she was telling me the names of the horses but the one that died is something like Conquered Gray (concord grey?) The other one is Cat Eye or something sounding like that. Sound familiar to anyone?


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jane
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February 19, 2007 8:50 pm  

Unfortunately, fear of reprisal is often why animal abusers are allowed to flourish. The right thing to do is not always the easy thing to do. Sometimes it takes courage to stand up for those who have no voice. This will not be the first horse that man has killed in a slow and painful way - nor will it be the last. The racehorse industry on StX and StTtoo, is rife with cruelty. I know...just like everywhere!
That horse must have just stood there every day patiently waiting for food, trusting in its owner. Please try and explain to your friend that she probably is in no danger of reprisal, but even if she is, I am sure that she doesn't want any more animals to suffer. Until ordinary folks stand up, the cruelty will carry on.


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Island Ed
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February 23, 2007 8:04 pm  

While I in no way condone cruelty to animals, and agree proper justice may need to be served in this matter, it always amazes me that some humans who profess such great compassion for animals, can at the same time wish, and even threaten, such hostility and brutality upon their fellowman as has been posted here. Are you just as incensed about the hundreds of children who have suffered and starved to death in the world during the time you spent loathing over the owner of this horse? Get some perspective!


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Becky R
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February 23, 2007 8:35 pm  

Ah, Ed, and we will have to agree to disagree - everyone has a cause......the plight of this horse is as heartwrenching to those of us who believe all creatures are of the Maker's creation, children and horses alike - and having been in rescue for many years, the animosity and anger spewed above is just that - anger at an unfair world where a child or a horse dies at the hands of others. Doesn't mean they are headed over to this man's house with their torches any more than you are marching on St. Thomas with your new flag. You can see who a man is by the way he treats all creatures great and small - and the measure of the owner of this horse is this is someone who gives all of humanity a bad name.

Kudos to you that tried - but I must tell you that the general concensus of opinion on the island regarding my small herd of dogs boggled my mind - dogs, horses, any animal - the neglect is overwhelming, and before someone jumps my butt, I had the islander that lived next door explain to me that for the most part, animals are just another thing taking up space......there is no serious affection shown except by a few. It's a very difficult concept to wrap your head around until you see it in motion - but I will tell you a little story about looking for a pet friendly apartment. I will grant you we don't have one pet, we have a multitude - but we found a place we liked and went to talk to a man about it. He met us there with his son, his brother, and some other male friend/relative.....he didn't have a problem with renting to us with 6 dogs, but wondered why we had them. I told him they were all rescues, I adored each and every one of them, but it was a little harder to move around the island with 6 than it was stateside - at which point he suggested we either: a) open the fence and set them free - if they make it, God intended it that way, and if not, oh well......or b) shoot some of them in the back of the head, thereby making it easier to move. I almost fell apart.....and you could tell this man was truly confused, as were the other men there, that I would get so upset over anyone even mentioning anything about my dogs being dead or wandering the street. He saw how upset I was and tried to console me by telling me there were large packs of feral dogs.....that my dogs would join up with them and they would learn to live in the wild or they simply would not survive.....I'm not sure how that was supposed to comfort me.

Animals are less.......at least, from what I saw, the general concensus of opinion was that a beast is just that, not the "man's best friend" idea that we continentals have grown up with.

Yet another example of another culture. Heads up, folks. I certainly do not condone the agony this poor horse had to go through before he finally went to a better place, but I doubt seriously that two weeks from now anyone will give a damn about this incident other than the few who got passionately involved.

Back under my rock.


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terry
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February 23, 2007 11:23 pm  

Becky, I can see your point of view. When i was a small child, my uncle by marriage, who lived far away and I didn't see very often, made a simular type comment to me and my dad about my beloved Dashound. Thirty some odd years later my father told me that my uncle had just died. I not only didn't send any condolences, I told my dad that I was glad. I still held that grudge. Childish? Crule? Maybe. But that was the way I truly felt. I believe that God will have a special place in heaven for Christieneg, and a special place in hell for that owner.


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Island Ed
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February 24, 2007 12:50 am  

It is marvelous that everyone pitched in to help these animals, and amazing to see the cooperation of those on and off island to help.

I'm curious though...
Jane mentioned that there "are dozens of horses just like it all over stx". Will this noble "cause" continue with the same "passion" until ALL these horses are rescued? I don't know who the owners were, or why they allowed this neglect, but STT Resident suggested it could be ignorance. Do we know for sure it was deliberate abuse? Is ignorant neglect the same as deliberate abuse? Is there a correlation of ignorant abuse to serial killings? Is there a "special place in Hell" for ALL the owners of these horses, including the ignorant ones? What about the neglected dogs and cats? Why doesn't neglected goldfish imflame the same passion? Why not this same passion for the creatures that were made in God's image?

BeckyR, you know I enjoy your comments and our private laughs. Clearly my Flag posts have been for humor and levity on this board... but even in my harshest comments, I have never wished such brutality upon someone... even if everyone knew I would never act on it. Those expressions speak equally volumes about a lack of humanity. I hope you understand.


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paula
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February 24, 2007 2:43 am  

I applaud all of you on this board who were so concerned about even one dying horse! Thank you for caring enough about even one animal. It was truly inspiring to read of your fight for this poor helpless beings life. Even one animal counts. Whether it lived or died, at least you DID something. Rational people realize we can't save EVERY mistreated animal, but to give up because of that excuse is... inexcusable.


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Becky R
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February 24, 2007 1:09 pm  

Ed, you made my point for me - no one will give a damn tomorrow, at least not anyone who can actively effect change. There is this wee little problem that pervades the USVI - and I think it is best described by the woman who is afraid of repercussions should she pursue prosecution of this atrocity....that horse man may very well be related to the head of whatever group of low-lifes are running their thing on the island, or he may be related to the police commissioner.....either way, that lady is getting ready to have a problem on her hands and most likely is not going to have the protection or backing of the VIPD. Animal issues aren’t important, they just aren’t….yes, education is the key…..hello, this is the same group that can’t keep the schools safe and free from mold so kids just don’t go to school sometimes, that can’t provide teaching materials, and on and on and on.

This is why people go to ground on issues that are important, and I think that's a statement on the political/governmental climate on the islands - fear. Do not misunderstand me - I live in a very small town of 30,000 people. If I piss down the leg of my neighbor, she is very likely going to call her nephew, who is a police lieutenant, and I will be looking for a new residence since I am over the city limit on dogs….but will someone be allowed to terrorize me until I relocate? Not hardly. As it is, as long as I keep her happy and keep up a good relationship with animal control and do not allow my dogs to become nuisances, we all hip-hop through life. Should I not recognize the line in the sand, then ultimately I will be the one nailed. Am I breaking the law? Absolutely. However, I've greased the wheels to where animal control looks the other way since my dogs are all rescues and relatively well behaved and extremely well cared for, and I don't let them run wild. That's called politics, and it exists everywhere. All of that being said, should my town decide to ban Rottweilers tomorrow, or should one of my dogs appear in the back yard with every rib sticking out and apparently on the verge of death, it isn't going to matter who I know or whether my dogs work in the hospital doing therapy or not - I'm out on my ear because no amount of good will and having a relative on the city board is going to help me one whit. Not quite the case in the VI. Let’s face facts - the USVI laws on animal abuse aren’t exactly going to send anyone to the penitentiary for any significant amount of time because they are not enforced. If my neighbors take offense to my dogs and start harassing me or chasing me down the street with sticks or trying to kill and eat me, whether I’m right or wrong on being over the limit on dogs, I WILL have the police at my doorstep to ensure my personal safety. I couldn’t even get a policeman on St. Croix to show up when we were robbed at gunpoint….I don’t think they would have run full blast to my house because my neighbors were after me over a dog OR a horse.

With regard to the horse - I have to believe that this is not a case of simple ignorant neglect - anyone can see an animal dying before their very eyes. Ignorant neglect is when the horse’s hooves haven’t been trimmed in 3 years because you didn’t know you were supposed to. Starvation is abuse. Unless the gentleman who owned this horse suffers from serious mental disease or retardation, there is NO EXCUSE for what happened, and then perhaps a mental incapacitation defense could be made. Otherwise, I’m sorry – that is YOUR property, mister, and YOUR responsibility to be humane....and Ed, I have to believe if this man had left a small child in an empty house with no food or water for days on end and the child starved to death, you would be among the first to want him incarcerated IMMEDIATELY and might (quietly) join the ranks of those yelling "off with his head". Do we really want his head? Some will and some won’t….and that takes us off to a whole new discussion on the legal system, crime and punishment. I won’t go there.

The point I am trying to make is that this issue will not be an issue again until it becomes an issue again – no, the horses and feral dogs and cats and even the children will not receive justice until there is another horrible event – and another, and another, and another…..and until much of the nepotism of the current government is eliminated and people do not fear reprisal. I don’t know about you, but I don’t see that happening anytime in the near future. My other point is that this is a different culture – just as many of us might be horrified to see a dog eaten for supper in an Asian country, that is their way….. and the islands do not share the same beliefs overall that many of us do regarding the sanctity of life, goldfish, dog or otherwise. It will take many years to advance the cause of animal rights , which isn’t on the top of the agenda for the VI. If education for children isn’t something that brings the masses to their feet, then I don’t think one man and a horse will.

As to the wishes of horrible things on the horse owner….has anyone ever said to their kid, “I’m gonna beat you half to death if you do that again”…….I have….still do, I think, and they are 26 and 29. Anyone out there with an ex-husband who wished he would burn in hell? I've got two of 'em - yep, I've wished on a star, but it hasn't happened yet. I’m not going to beat the kids half to death, nor will I kill the ex-husbands in the hopes that my dreams will come true.... but I’m going to talk a good game. Words. Smoke and mirrors – anger pounded out on “paper”. To each his own….let people vent. It’s only words. Sticks and stones. I think the people of this board are more civil and you are taking some statements a little too literally….but I do like your flag 🙂


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Island Ed
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February 24, 2007 1:28 pm  

Respectfully BeckR,
Wasn't it just words that suggested to leave the gate open or shoot your dog? Your reaction was to 'almost fall apart'. But to speak even worse about a human is just a "good game" or "sticks and stones"?


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Becky R
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February 24, 2007 1:49 pm  

Ed, you know what I mean.....you're picking on me! The difference is that those that said this about my dogs were certainly serious and thought it was a great idea, as that is how some problems are solved on the island - I was pointing out the differences in culture........the ones who suggested roasting Mr. Horse Owner or whatever are running their mouths.....unless there was a roast I haven't heard about yet........

I hear what you are saying and I understand and comprehend - and I've been the one saying anger begets anger - but these are people expressing frustration through cyberspace with their large and occasionally happy extended VI lover family and that's all. Since Horse Owner is apparently alive and well, it appears it WAS just talk. I kind of doubt these people are going to post their intentions on a moving board and then carry through, although Loony Tunes are all over the place and do the strangest things.....On the other hand, I have no doubt that if I'd have encouraged the potential landlord in the least, my problems would have been solved post haste. Intent. It's all about intent........does one intend to act upon the words or just intend to spout off? I'm saying I think they're spouting.....but if the horse owner goes missing, someone be sure and send me the link to the newspaper, I would like to follow the story.

If you aren't nice to me I won't vote for your flags, Skittles Rainbow or not......


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Island Ed
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February 24, 2007 5:51 pm  

BeckyR,
! LOL
I don't mean to pick on you dear, and I have no quarrel with you. I do believe you get my point. Thanks.


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STT Resident
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February 25, 2007 1:47 am  

This post continues to segue off bigtime.

We had the initial poster telling us that although the horses were taken in by Ag, one of them died . The off-island lady is scared of repercussions against her family here so won't testify against the horse owners. Sorry, don't buy that, total nonsense!

And we had posters on this forum chiming in about the plight of these horses and expressing the highest regard to the first poster who brought it to the forum attention.

How many of you "concerned citizen" posters actually contacted the media, or the STX Humane Society or the Police Department?

Just asking.

PS: If anybody is concerned about the horses currently "grazing" in Smith Bay on STT with ropes around their necks, feel free to contact me!


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Betty
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February 25, 2007 6:33 pm  

Becky I appauld you for you posts. The amount of animal abuse that goes happens on these islands boggles my mind and breaks my heart on a daily basis. Many of the locals do not believe animals feel pain and will abuse them. When I lived on the west end it was not an unusal thing to see a partially burnt dog (or abused in some other way) walking on the beach. Or to see a dog living on the intersections were people would dump their trash even though their are free easily accesible dumps on the island. I have rescued two of these dogs but have reached my limit or rather over my limit of what I can save. I would not say the amount of homeless dog, cats, horses here is normal for the pop. or size of this island at all (STX) and certainly not the cultural view point of how to treat a domesitcated animal.


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jane
 jane
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February 25, 2007 7:13 pm  

The endemic animal abuse was one of the reasons I left StX. It used to break my heart. I nearly got killed once in Richmond for trying to rescue two dogs that were chained in a yard starving to death. I used to pass on my way to work and could see them going downhill. The humane society hadn't responded to my calls, faxes etc. The family including two teenage girls walke d past them every day and didn't feed them. I snapped and spoke up when I saw the mom walk past the dogs with a plate of food from the restaurant. They weren't hers - they were here son's etc etc and he wasn't around. She didn't give a ....
at that point a large man waving a metal stake threatened to kill me for being an ffffing white bitch who should go home!!! At that point we could get the police involved, but before the humane soc. could get there, the dogs disappeared.
My point being, I thought that we were supposed to be educating the younger generations. I think they follow their family example more strongly that educators would hope for.
The animals are property, they do not have souls, they don't suffer...is how one local explained it to me. Chaining them so short that they cannot lie down, chaining them under a house etc shows no empathy or sense of responsibility.


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STT Resident
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February 26, 2007 1:57 am  

The V/.I. animal protection/abuse laws were passed just last year after countless YEARS of effort by so many people. The laws are on the books so maybe posters should stop harping on what WAS and focus on what IS and how they can utilize these laws.

Come on, Jane, you left STX for many reasons but animal abuse was way down there on the list. Leave us not tag onto a thread to justify your leaving the islands. You left for many reasons and that's perfectly OK. Your point has been well taken for a long time now.

The STX Humane Society's hands were tied as were the STT Humane Society's hands given what was NOT on the books. A change was made - finally - and it was a real victory.

INobody on this forum has even mentioned the Smith Bay horses "pastured out" with ropes around their necks? No problem. I'm on it bigtime.

Cheers to all!


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jane
 jane
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February 26, 2007 4:29 am  

May I humbly refer you to my posts of 5/15/06 and 11/30/06 and 1/9/07. You will find in these posts animal cruelty clearly cited as a major reason for my discomfort with life on StX.
Your apology is accepted
Cheers, m'Dear


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NjoynStjohn
 NjoynStjohn
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February 26, 2007 10:32 am  

Find Kate Johnson on St John. She and others have been a part of a horse rescues and have helped some really bad situations. Also, call the Humane Society's new Director. (The ACC on St John might have Kate's number. I think she still works at Tage at night)


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