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OldTart
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CruzanIron
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September 8, 2016 10:27 am  

I did a quick Google and found the MINIMUM cost if you purchase 10+ machines to be $30,000.00 EACH for the smallest machines. How is the store supposed to recoup this cost? Everywhere else in the world they sell the cans, bottles and plastic recovered. That can't be done in the VI.

AND - after the machine is full, what are the machine owners supposed to do with the plastic bottles? Take them to the dump?

Isn't the aim to reduce volume at the dump? How does this onerous burden on a business solve the problem of trash volume at the dump?


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OldTart
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September 8, 2016 10:59 am  

It's clear that much has to be done to make any recycling laws feasible - exactly the growing pains that every jurisdiction worldwide has had to address. The USVI is just woefully behind but at least there's plenty of history spanning several decades to learn from. This is just a first step although of course I understand that it's almost obligatory that the rush of negatives take center stage over the small positive step forward.


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CruzanIron
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September 8, 2016 11:18 am  

OT, what is the positive step that you are referring to? The only thing mentioned in the story was the machines, which I have pointed out will not work for the VI. There is no positive in a system that will not work in the VI.

Maybe a better solution would be to separate recyclables from organic garbage like may stateside jurisdictions do. It would make people feel good, but in the end, they both get placed together in the same dump here. The problem is not solved, and the machines won't solve the problem either.

If I am missing something, tell me the positive of the machines and how it will reduce the volume of garbage at the dump?


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Alana33
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September 8, 2016 11:59 am  

Why expensive machines instead of dedicated bins, on-site at stores?
Back in the early 70's even small mom and pop stores in Vermont recycled bottles and cans.

You paid an extra 5¢ for your bottle or can, when you returned it, you got your money back. They didn't need expensive machines, subject to electrical power and maintenance.


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CruzanIron
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September 8, 2016 12:25 pm  

From the article:

The three measures should be able to reduce the waste stream by 70 percent, extending the life of the landfills by several years. But without them, the landfills must close very soon.

Now, how are the machines, or bins, going to REDUCE the volume of garbage going to the dumps?


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OldTart
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September 8, 2016 12:25 pm  

OT, what is the positive step that you are referring to?

The positive is that it came out of committee and is moving along. Does every small positive have to be counteracted with a barrage of negativity? If anybody has suggestions regarding implementation they can certainly contact their representatives to express them.


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OldTart
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September 8, 2016 12:26 pm  

From the article:

The three measures should be able to reduce the waste stream by 70 percent, extending the life of the landfills by several years. But without them, the landfills must close very soon.

Now, how are the machines, or bins, going to REDUCE the volume of garbage going to the dumps?

Probably because they crush the darned things.


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CruzanIron
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September 8, 2016 12:33 pm  

Why do only the 'LARGE STORES' have to bear the cost of garbage created by gas station convenience stores? How are they supposed to recoup the cost? What is their economic advantage?

If the government wants the machines, they should pay for them and maintain them.


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OldTart
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September 8, 2016 12:56 pm  

Why do only the 'LARGE STORES' have to bear the cost of garbage created by gas station convenience stores? How are they supposed to recoup the cost? What is their economic advantage?

They are all PROPOSALS. You can seek answers to these questions via your local representative and/or by submitting your questions and concerns in writing to the Rules and Judiciary Committee who will now be examining the proposals.


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CruzanIron
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September 8, 2016 1:13 pm  

Poorly written proposals become poorly written laws. How many times have we seen that happen? The Legislature doe snot care one damn bit about our input. They do what they want since they have no obligation to the citizens. I prefer to voice my dissatisfaction at the ballot box. And we all know how well that works (yes, that is a sarcastic remark).

At least the no plastic bag idea is something that I will support. But I have been for years. I didn't need a law to do that.


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IslandHops
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September 8, 2016 1:20 pm  

I'm interested to learn how this will affect the existing bottle bill law that already collects an extra tax. The money already goes to waste mis-management for their anti-litter and beautification fund.

Sounds like they proposing an added tax be applied twice for the similar purpose.

So it seems as if Cost U More, Plaza, Pueblo and others will need to jack up all their prices just to cover the cost of the machines. Unless of course the government loans the supermarkets the money for the machines to be paid back in gross receipt tax breaks. But that's a bit far thinking for this administration.

(This message approved by Slartibartfast for Senate 2018)


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OldTart
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September 8, 2016 1:31 pm  

I prefer to voice my dissatisfaction at the ballot box. And we all know how well that works (yes, that is a sarcastic remark).

But casting your vote in an election is SO much easier than taking the time to sit down and write to your representative or a government committee. All the time you've spent so far criticizing the proposals could have been less wasted properly expressing your concerns to those who are trying to implement a viable plan.


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CruzanIron
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September 8, 2016 1:36 pm  

All the time you've spent so far criticizing the proposals could have been less wasted properly expressing your concerns to those who are trying to implement a viable plan.

I speak from experience. I've done as you've suggested before. After years of beating my head against a wall I've learned my lesson.


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OldTart
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September 8, 2016 1:48 pm  

All the time you've spent so far criticizing the proposals could have been less wasted properly expressing your concerns to those who are trying to implement a viable plan.

I speak from experience. I've done as you've suggested before. After years of beating my head against a wall I've learned my lesson.

And with all due respect I've done the same on several different issues with excellent positive outcomes.


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LiquidFluoride
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September 8, 2016 7:21 pm  

I prefer to voice my dissatisfaction at the ballot box. And we all know how well that works (yes, that is a sarcastic remark).

But casting your vote in an election is SO much easier than taking the time to sit down and write to your representative or a government committee. All the time you've spent so far criticizing the proposals could have been less wasted properly expressing your concerns to those who are trying to implement a viable plan.

And writing a letter to some yahoo in a suit is SO much easier than actually doing something about the problem your self.

All the time you've spent telling people to write their senator you could have been out side being productive; you could come up with a local solutions.. local neighborhood "property contests" for litter or the such... If I can come up with one decent idea in 30 seconds, imagine what you could do !?

ANYTIME you delegate responsibility to another, you lose your right to bitch about it.... stop thinking these suits are going to do anything for you, do it for your self!


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stxsailor
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September 8, 2016 7:38 pm  

I remember when I was in Panama all the schools got together and had "garbage pick up contests" Kids would get sections to clean up and win a prize for most unusual item, largest item and most reusable item among others. Not only did the kids have fun but many of the kids would become conscious about littering. i would see kids actually scolding their parents and siblings for littering. It improved the island we were on tremendously. The little things can work.
I applaud the plastic bag idea. It works in the BVI's. I am waiting for the "it's not fair" crowd to complain about having to bring reusable bags to the store.


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ms411
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September 8, 2016 7:43 pm  

Crown Bay STT recycles cans. The blue bins are in front of Gourmet Gallery.


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OldTart
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September 8, 2016 7:44 pm  

And writing a letter to some yahoo in a suit is SO much easier than actually doing something about the problem your self.

All the time you've spent telling people to write their senator you could have been out side being productive; you could come up with a local solutions.. local neighborhood "property contests" for litter or the such... If I can come up with one decent idea in 30 seconds, imagine what you could do !?!

Apples and oranges. Like many others I religiously recycle, compost, etc. and encourage others to do likewise - have done for years - but when it comes to the passing, enactment and upholding of LAWS in one's community, making one's voice heard through the proper channels is infinitely more productive than forum-bleating.


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AandA2VI
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September 12, 2016 6:19 am  

Don't you guys think that the only real long term solution is shipping it off islands. Not sure logistics or cost but curious on it for sure. All these ships full of containers with general goods we get shipped here... I assume those all go back empty... I realize containers may not fix the problem but I agree that the machines may crush and make it caller but the result will still be the same... just will take a little longer.

SO happy to see the plastic bag thing moving along. Sick of peeling them off reefs and sea turtles. Not to be a downer but it still will be allowed for food stuffs and retail. Wish it was a full ban. We make it a goal it our house to only fill the bin once every two weeks and really try to cut down on what we put in the landfill. It's a shame, I heard STT was only like 20 feet from the water? Zero idea of that's true or not lol


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stjohnjulie
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September 12, 2016 8:17 am  

I remember when I was in Panama all the schools got together and had "garbage pick up contests" Kids would get sections to clean up and win a prize for most unusual item, largest item and most reusable item among others. Not only did the kids have fun but many of the kids would become conscious about littering. i would see kids actually scolding their parents and siblings for littering. It improved the island we were on tremendously. The little things can work.
I applaud the plastic bag idea. It works in the BVI's. I am waiting for the "it's not fair" crowd to complain about having to bring reusable bags to the store.

I really think you hit on a key point. I think the best way to make a big change is to start with the kids. They can have a huge impact on their parents, but will also carry the habit with them into adulthood. Even preschoolers can sort waste and be conscious of reducing it at home. If there was a big push to educate in the schools we will most likely see change. Maybe not a lot of immediate change, but it will come in time.


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ms411
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September 12, 2016 10:00 am  

There is a beach clean up this Saturday at Brewers starting at 7 a.m.


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daveb722
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September 12, 2016 10:27 am  

I would hope that they move forward on the bags. I was just down in STX and they practically put 1 item in each bag at the grocery store. My wife and I will be bringing our reusable bags next time we come down. Whenever I buy 1 or 2 items and the cashier asks me if I want it bagged, I always say No, saving the world 1 bag at a time.


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OldTart
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September 12, 2016 10:44 am  

Don't you guys think that the only real long term solution is shipping it off islands. Not sure logistics or cost but curious on it for sure. l

It's been researched but not feasible either logistically or economically.


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IslandHops
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September 12, 2016 11:33 am  

Don't you guys think that the only real long term solution is shipping it off islands. Not sure logistics or cost but curious on it for sure. l

It's been researched but not feasible either logistically or economically.

Well that's not strictly accurate. The following highlights are part of a long multi-year story of trying to recycle cans on STX.

The STX recycling association (now part of SEA) assisted on behalf of the Boys & Girls club in writing grants to re-establish the B&G can recycling operation at the facility in Peters Rest.

Crusher equipment was ordered, electrical work and cleanup completed.

Road work and drainage construction that was taking place on the road delayed installation and startup. This also prevented finalizing a new lease on the facility.

The original operator lost interest and a second operator identified.

The facility was broken into and all the new wiring stolen.

A deal was discussed with reps from Coke Corporate whereby they would purchase all the compacted cans and provide free shipping off island. They were also interested in taking plastics too. But the new selected operator declined being involved in this arrangement.

Recycling of plastics was questioned and discarded because waste mismanagement was pushing on setting up a waste-to-energy plant, and would want the BTU value of the plastics to help make it feasible.

Meanwhile waste mismanagement finally opened the convenience center at PR.

The compacting equipment was set up for operation at the separating facility at the landfill, and

The operator was subsequently indicted on the mainland for shipping drugs in containers that contained recycled metal, which fully explained why he was not interested in the free shipping option as he already had his own "coke" deal.

As far as it stands today, cans dropped at the Peters Rest convenience center are supposedly being compacted using the B&G club equipment, and the B&G club is supposed to be receiving a portion of the funds.

So yes, there was an option for free off-island shipping of recyclables was made but turned down.

But the most important thing is that B&G club should be receiving a stream of revenue for all cans dropped of at the Peters Rest convenience center - so if you are on STX please recycle your cans.


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