The Island Way

Well stated VB. The sentiments you just so aptly expressed have been rumbling about in the back of my mind for sometime now. There seems to be a total lack of understanding regarding the connection between personal productivity and standard of living and the excuse given is always "Island Time".

Okay, maybe it's not fair for me to say anything since I am not there..YET..but my question is the one I pose to many...what are YOU doing to make it a better place? It sounds harsh, but perhaps one could lead by example??? You may have a whole new career laid out in front of you if you choose to take on of the issues at hand by the horns and try to work on it??? Alas, nothing is ever perfect.

No disrespect, but I wonder, what makes you (any of you) want to live there?

I agree with you VB. We live in the BVI and are moving to STT. Every time we say something about how things could be improved or the bad service you receive... people get upset with you. We have quit talking about the discrimination and other issues we deal with. They don't seem to want to improve things.

We live here because we love the weather and diving... and that is where our jobs are at.

I want to move there for the warm weather and the angle of the sun in the winter sky. I can tolerate the alleged bad attitudes and poor service. My comment was aimed at those who don't seem to understand the connection between standard of living and hardwork.

Bravo, VB

I don't live on "The Islands" but I have been down there scouting them out for a possible business. To be honest, the fact of "Island Time" concerns me when it comes to running a business. But it isn't only in the USVI. I worked in Trinidad and it was the same thing. Personally, I think the heat plays an important part. It can sap all energy right out of you,. It's the same thing in Africa. There, it's "Bush Time".

But what really confuses me is the apparent reluctance to confront the crime problem. It sometimes seems to be an unmentionable topic; and it spite of all the many posts asking which areas are "safe", posters are often told to come down and look around for themselves. If you ask me which areas are "safe" in NYC I could tell you, and would.
Everyone there knows which areas are considered safer than others.

As for all that inefficiency, maybe it's just a "cultural thing".

The reason why they're told to come down and look for themselves is because it is difficult to describe. There isn't one section that's safe and one section that isn't. It's a big blend and very hard to near impossible to sum it up in some paragraphs.

I think you are talking about two different issues, things that are actually wrong and things that are different.

I've lived on STX for a little more than a year. During that time I've seen lots that is wrong. Poverty and bad government accounts for much of what is wrong with the territory. I don't think anyone would dispute that. And we can talk about it till the cows come home, but to what end? I suppose with time and a lot of effort I could become involved, write letters to the newspapers, run for office -- try to make a change. I was very active politically where I came from. Here, I just want to work, go to the beach and enjoy my life. So for me, complaining too much about the things that are wrong is a little hypocritical, because I'm not willing to take the time and make the effort to change things. And as I said, why continue to beat a dead horse by talking about it?

Discrimination is often mention as another wrong. I don't think discrimination is any different here than in the states. The difference is -- it's directed at US (and we know who we are). Whites are a minority here and are treated as such, which is wrong.

Crime is wrong. When people on the board ask questions about crime, I try to answer from my own experience. I've not been a victim of crime and feel safe in my home and traveling around the island. And again, what else is there to say?

Differences? There are plenty! I know people get tired of hearing "you have to come and see for yourself" BUT YOU DO.

We kid about the island way and island time, but it is a very real thing. I don't think it's wrong, just different. Funerals are an example that comes to mind. It is not at all unusual for people to take a whole day off to attend a funeral and home visitation. And not just close family, but friends and co-workers too. Many times you see a black bow on the door of a closed business, signifying that the entire staff is attending a funeral. This may seem like an excuse to get away from work to me. But maybe it's a way to show respect. You mentioned a quest for excellence. What does that mean exactly? Isn't it presumptious to expect everyone to comform to one way of doing things -- our way?

Life here is slower and simpler. My husband says it's like living in the 1950's. Some people like it and can adapt to "the way it is". Some people like it and work for positive change. And some people try it and decide they can't adapt.

During tropical storm Jeanne I was amazed at how few trees came down. In Kentucky, if we had a storm with winds like that, there would be trees down everywhere. A co-worker pointed out to me that the trees here tend to bend and not break. Maybe the people do too.

As I see it, my value on this board is to give honest advice from my perspective (white married woman, middle aged, living and working on STX). That's what I try to do.

As far as poor customer service, ample lawsuits, and corrupt government goes, I saw all these things living in Ohio and Washington, D.C. I don’t think it’s any worse here. Crime is not a hush-hush topic on this board, as a search through past threads will show. As far as alleged skyrocketing crime goes, I never see any numbers given. As far as apathy goes, I see 26 associations and 31 social service organizations listed in the Yellow Pages. I also see well over 100 churches. Churches do a lot of community work.

You need only compare the USVI to places like Haiti and Cuba to realize that we are very fortunate to live here, despite our problems.

Why do I live here? Because the weather can’t be beat. The people are very friendly. There’s less segregation. Just the other day, I saw West Indian, Puerto Rican, and white kids playing volleyball and swimming together at the beach. That’s a common sight here, but I can’t recall a lot of that sort of thing on the mainland. I love waking up before sunrise to 70-degree weather and hearing a light shower pass by while the insects chirp outside, then driving to work along country roads as the sun rises and seeing Ginger-Thomases swaying in the trade winds. I love the slow pace of life, and the way work is unhurried and rarely a source of stress. I love being able to get away from everything to go hiking alone in the forest and maybe finding some ruins buried in the vegetation and knowing I live in a place that is so steeped in history. I’m very fortunate to live here.

I was in a Blockbuster store at 11:00 p.m., 7 months pregnant, with my mom, on a Tuesday night. Two masked gunmen came in and robbed the store. One gunman grabbed my mom by her bra-strap in the back thru her shirt and used his other hand to grab me by the shoulder and put a gun to my head. He pushed us around the store to the other gunman who was trying to get a store worker to open the safe. One gunman shouted, "I am going to shoot someone, if I don't get more money!" He looked straight at me and for a second I had a second gun pointed at me. A lot time had passed and the gunmen were getting nervous (in my opinion). They finally ran out the door and were gone.

The police arrived about five minutes later. They didn't interview me until a week later when I went to their office. The gunmen were not caught. The police provided no help. I never saw the incident in the paper. It was like no one cared.

Did this happen in the VI? - NO, it happened in Raytown, Missouri - six years ago. My point - which I hope to be very clear - is that the problems you mentioned in the VI is NOT problems only to the VI. These things happen everywhere. Corruption in politics? Crime? People not caring? People living their lives not 'doing' anything about the problems? None of these things is only happening here in the VI. That is why most of us do not want to 'beat a dead horse' by talking about it here on the board. I don't focus on the negative and I don't avoid the truth. I live my life the way I want too - knowledgable, using wisdom in situations, having fun, building relationships with new friends, etc. If you feel an injustice has been done - which there are plenty to choose from - make a difference by doing something yourself. Island way does not have the same definition to me as it does to you. I believe that living in the VI is harder, but more rewarding.

Only 40% of the population votes, yet it seems everyone has negative things to say about the government. I believe that being negative and only looking at the negative is not much fun. Most of us do not 'jump' on threads because they are talking about the negative, but rather because of the inappropriate way they talk about it. I don't post messages saying that the islands are for everyone, peace, love, and happiness abound here NOR do I post that the islands are full of corruption, horror, and crime. I personally dislike persons bringing up a thread of negative for no purpose other than to make people afraid or create an argument. They should instead bring it up in the editorial of a newspaper. What I do and the majority of the people on this board do is answer questions in a positive way. If someone wants to know about crime, I have personally posted several times that you need to use common sense and I give examples, I tell them what to expect and sometimes I do refer them to search and read older postings on the subject. I don't think it is fair to say that they are 'shouted down' or 'jumped on'. Some people are looking for information and some are looking to scare. The people on the board try to distinguish and post accordingly.

Teresa

Post Edited (10-14-04 15:32)

I'm confused by the way people want the VIs to be JUST LIKE the states in the way it functions. Why move here, to another culture/country/mode/lifestyle if you want it to be just like it is where you are from? I find it exciting and challenging to deal with all the differences here. When i moved from CA to NYC it was a huge culture shock and took me a long time to adapt to NY ways and get used to things. when i moved as a kid from the midwest to LA it was the hugest culture shock i could ever have imagined. i expected that when i moved here too-- islands are VERY different than the mainland. I was very annoyed in Spain when everything shut down for siesta (and when i was expected to eat my largest meal of the day at 3pm) but i took it in stride, tried to experience it and go with the flow, and eventually began to love siesta time. i think that's the way people need to approach life here in the VIs. there is so much to learn from this pace of life, much introspection, adjustment of priorities, etc. there's a lot to be frustrated with as well, i'm very sad about the low wages here, for example. my fiance is really frustrated with the work ethic aspect-- his coworkers no-show at work for up to a week at a time without calling and the boss's reaction is "oh well, i guess James took off for a while..." and they get their jobs back when they return since there aren't any other people to hire with the skills needed in that profession. so, i guess we all just have to live and learn, accept that the VIs aren't perfect, appreciate all there is here, laugh to ourselves and with friends at the things we aren't used to, and try not to take offense when we white people experience reverse racism (since we all agreed to be the minority when we moved here). makes me much more aware of race issues in the states as a whole and perhaps its good for us to experience what it's like to be treated unfairly at times. i think there's way more to be enjoy here than there is to complain about. LOOK AROUND

Yup, the islands aren't like New York. But, If we want a New York lifestyle I guess we should more to NYC The big draw to the islands is the get away from it thing. If the islands are just like home, why leave home for the islands.

We all know what we're moving into (in my case still planning it). If I don't like what I see, I'll stay put. But it would be terribly wrong for me to move in and immediately want to make it over. Correct injustices - good goal. But don't, pardon the hackneyed phrase, toss the baby out with the bath water.

I'm always struck by people who move into an area and then complain about the conditions within the area. I recall back in Pa. a developer built a bunch of homes adjacent to one of the country's biggest turkey farms. The farm had been there for decades. When people started moving in they complained about the smell from the turkey farm. Hello. Didn't you know it was there when you moved in? Or the guy who moves into the country next to a dairy farm and can't take the flies or the smell and wants the farm to move. Or I recall on a flight back from Mexico hearing a tourist complain, "imagine those people, they don't even speak English and they want us to come to their country."

If the way of life is slower, so what? Isn't that the attraction.

Govt is corrupt, I currently live in Alabama. Want to talk about corrupt govt. We have a state supreme court justice who won't abide by court orders, ex-governors being indicted, and much more. DC had a mayor jailed for drug charges. and on and on.

Inefficiencies in g'ovt, try the hassel of getting your car registered when you move into Texas.

Guess I'm not saying anything different from many of the other posters.

Point well taken. When we where visiting STX we made a point to listen to the local radio station and watch some local TV. One thing came to my attention one morning on the TV. There was a young woman who grew up on the VI's and just came back from college. She explained that she loved living on the islands but that after having left and wittnessed how people are on statesite she is ashamed of the Islander and their poor behavior. She happen to order a burger I believe on STT only to be addressed n rudely by the person behind the counter. In the past she would most likely have noticed the rude behavior of the staff. However, now after returning from the mainland she was upsat and wondering what Islander think. After all they are hired to do a job if they don't like it they can leave. She continues to say that Islander have to take repsonsibilities for their own live. Nobody will do it for you. This is a woman maybe 20 some years old and Islander herself. I have to agree with her. We often get this in large cities as well over here. People believe wellfare is their right. They feel that is is the governments responsibility that they get jobs or their children have food on the table. Fact is if you don't help yourself don't expect help from others.

When someone writes so what have you done lately that is just another way of avoiding an issue. I speak out a lot about many problems. I have also volunteered a lot to improve things. However, one person can not do it alone. It has to be a large part of the population. On one level or another everyone agrees things are not good and change has to happen. So why also we know the truth has been spoken we rather attack than come up with solutions? The first poster made some valid points. I am sure many understand the underlying fustration.

So what is wrong with having a forum where all Islander talk about Island issues and problems. Brainstorm on how Islander can come together to make things better for all. I was very impressed how homeschooling on the islands are supported. One way of dealing with the poor school system. But would it not be great if the public schools really would work for everyone and all the tax money sprend would not go to waste. I mean who get's hurt here? It is the native Islanders children mostly. Who get's hurt by poor crime stats? All 3 Islands and it's economics, as well as job lost for Islander. Change does not not mean you loose your casual Island way. It might just make it even more wonderful.

Keep openminded there is always room for improvement. It's up to all of us to make it happen. One person can not do it alone.

Oh, when it comes to the 100 churches that is not always a plus. I just read a woman either went to a back street practitioner to have an abortion or tried it herself. She was submitted to the hospital with complication. Doctors and hospital do provide that service but due to the strong presents and influence of churches do not advertise that service to the public. This woman risk her own death rather than getting the right medical care. They said that this is not uncomman but does happen mostly in third world countries. There is no planed parenthood on the islands.

Iris

Way to go, Theresa -- my thoughts exactly -- this "VirginBound" person must be quite a miserable person. I am moving in May of 2005 and I am using this board to ask my questions not to be preached at -- I can go to church for that.

Hats off to Teresa. Could not have said it better myself. You to molly.

I moved here because i love the way of life here, I dont want Starbucks on every corner, Theme parks and 711's, We have to many hotels, and don't need anymore eating up the few beachs we have left. Next time you get stuck in line at the bank, try talking to the person next to you to pass some time. You can learn alot from talking to a local, if you really listen

I don't think anybody posting here has an issue with folks who want to slow down, enjoy life, and escape the stresses of keeping up with the joneses. The issue is when those folks who aren't willing to work are also residents of the housing projects and rely on the government for their subsistance. If you want to be rude and lazy, that's fine. Power to you. If you expect my tax dollars to support you while you laze around all day, or my consumer dollars to pay your salary while you ignore or mistreat me, you're in for a rude awakening.

Jay

VB-

I know I'm not saying anything different from other posters, but all I can tell you is to go with the flow and enjoy the VI. Yes, there are corrupt govt. officials, inefficiencies, and a certain amount of crime. but guess what? that's everywhere you go.

I can only speak from personal experience, and so can everyone else on this message board. My experiences of the VI were very positive. Yes, I encountered a crabby person or two here or there and experienced more than one frustrating incident (i.e. long lines at the p.o., snappy clerks at the ferry ticket office), but I shrugged it off. I reminded myself that things were much worse back in Philadelphia.

Now here I am, trapped in Philly and plotting my escape! I have the misfortune to live in the working-class (read: white trash) suburbs of the city, and every day I am struck by the observation that no matter what annoyances I faced in the VI, they're cake in comparison to what I have to deal with here on a daily basis: foul weather; rude, inbred people (Which happens because once people settlein the Philly 'burbs, they never leave and breed with each other!! Horrors!!); road rage; overdevelopment (which I know is a problem in parts of the VI, but I am certain it will never reach the epic proportions it has in the Philly 'burbs); a city-wage tax; an inordinately expensive public transit system; and Eagles fans. I can add more to this list, but I'm sure you get my point.

As I said, my experiences in the VI ( St. John) were positive. People said "good morning" to me every where I went, and many took angenuine interest in who I was. They took the time to talk to me and get to know me. Few people in the Philly 'burbs do that! And let's not forget the VI's fabulous weather and gorgeous scenery!

Maybe it's easy for me to say, but I look at the good in the VI because there's so much more of it there than there is here. For me personally, the VI has more to offer me than Philly does...but all this is only my personal view on the matter.

-Celeste

I think perception is skewed on the islands. The same problems exist in almost any major city, but in any major city you have more people. So you tend to find more of a balance. In Raytown,Missouri, the DMV has a uniformed police man at the front door. This is to manage the 'customers' that finally reach a breaking point and lose it on one of the workers. It is almost comical in the way that you could walk in at 10:00 in the morning with a line out the door and one person working the counter. Ten other people are very busy discussing, I am sure very important topics of business behind the one person working. (sarcasm overload) However, in Missouri we have a lot of DMV's to choose from because you don't have to go to the one in your city. I travel a whole 20 minutes to a DMV in Lee's Summit and walked in and out in no time. They weren't happy people either, but no one remembers that the DMV is there so I had no wait.

Again, my point gets too long, but government workers are unfortunately the same in most areas. (I am leaving open the option that one glorious day I will walk into a government office that has friendly happy people)

Island way to me means that you take life a little slower and make it a bit longer. It isn't for me about being happy, sad, frustrated, or any other emotion. There are so many hard working people here in the VI, that I really can't honestly say that the majority are lazy or feel they are entitled to anything. If a person never focuses on the positive and only negative, they will only see the negative.

In all honesty, these Islands have the numbers of a small town, atmosphere of a metropolitan city, steady stream of tourists like no city I have ever seen before, and a beautiful deceiving beauty. Living here is harder than it was in the Mid-west (anyone tired of hearing me talk about Missourit yet?), but I really feel the good outweighs the bad here. I think the heat and small confines of homes and the island can sometimes make you a little cranky or a lot cranky, so remember that and try to get out on the ocean or off the rock. It helps to clear your head and make the negative seem so little. Good luck to all.

BTW, I live here because the job market brought us here. We as a family decided that life was too short to stay in one place all your life and not experience as much as possible. We moved here because we can't afford to travel so we have to work and move to enjoy a new place.

Teresa

I don't have anything to add because I don't live there (yet), but wanted to make one interesting observation...

Funny how VirginBound took his very long spoon, reached down and stirred the pot, then (seemingly) disappeared. "Any parries?" Yeah, right. I see him parrying his butt off, don't you? How does the old saying go..."It takes two to parry (or was it tango...)."

I've read this board for awhile, gleaning information I need (and, like Teresa, I hope to contribute back someday), but you know what? We ought to be smarter than this. If a post pops up whose entire intention is to stir things up, IGNORE IT.

And just how do you propose to stop this from happening Jay? I'd love to hear it.

The first step is to stop making excuses such as "it's Island Time" etc. etc.

Secondly, vote with you're pocketbook. If all the choices are bad, choose the lesser of multiple evils and make sure the others know why they're no longer getting your business. Reward hard work, good attitude and service with your continued patronage. Work to change the culture one business/person at a time.

Thirdly, vote for candidates who will work to structure government so as to encourage self-sufficiency.

Derek,

I totally agree with you.

By the way, the Board Rules indicate that the type of message VB sent is trolling, and suggests the following, "The best response to a troll is no response, ignore them. If you suspect a troll, e-mail Board Help and report it. Read more about Internet Trolls and how to deal with them."

Not to drag this out but I found this thread interesting and just wanted to share some un-biased, un-tested, un-opinionated observations. I don't see anything wrong with well intentioned, good natured debate now and then. Then again I am still on a computer in NJ (but only for 24 more hours!).

The one thing I noticed about the Islands, the VI in particular, are their place in today's industrialized society. To my knowledge, we move from places that are major producers and providers on a global level. The States, Europe, The far East, etc... are all places that have exportable resources that are in demand by peoples all over the globe. Places like these therefore become the hubs of progression and productivity. The people that occupy said areas, in general, become involved in those processes that increase efficiency, productivity, and output, whether it is measured in terms of GDP or acres of the rainforest preserved. Take a look at a normal stateside town; the largest employers are those that are producing things that people of the world are demanding, whether it be medicine, steel, food, or educated people. When raised in a culture that bears the desire (resulting from the wanting of economic growth) or responsibility (resulting from their available natural resources) to be a producer, it seems that the large majority of the people will inherit the desire (for lack of a better word) to be more effective, more efficient, less corrupt, etc... While this may vary from big city to rural country within one country, when compared to someplace such as a Caribbean Island I think the people would be like minded enough to be lumped together into a category that has the above characteristics.

According to the CIA World Fact Book, the USVI's natural resources are: "Sun, Sand, Sea, Surf". I don't think I could have said it better myself. And while these are 4 reasons that explain my arrival on island this Monday I think they may also explain "Island Time" or whatever contortion of that phrase you want to use. The VI has never been a major producer (Hovensa being an outlier, it is one of the largest refineries in the world, yet doesn't represent the VI as a whole) and really never has been. True, it is an important shipping lane and was a jump off point for settler's in the late 17th century, but on a whole the world does not depend on the VI for any one commodity. This lack of responsibility (i'm using this word carefully here) due to a lack of natural "exportable" resources could be a large contributing factor to island time. The focus then of people that live in societies like this is to maintain, persist, etc... and to just live, like so many of us have come to do. Granted in recent decades the VI itself is becoming more industrialized at a faster rate than it was say 100 years ago and more businesses are setting up shop on island, I think it is still safe to say that there is more of an emphasis of "living" rather than "producing". Couple the "lack of natural responsibilty" with the geography and awesome setting of the VI and well, living doesn't seem to be too bad of a thing.

So that was just an observation I thought i'd share. It may be wrong or it may be right on target, either way I just thought I'd put it out there. Reply if you'd like, I don't think i'll be able to check back too often with the move and all.

Kyle

Good Lord! You must be really unhappy!!!! GET OUT THEN!!! You're taking up space that someone who appreciates beauty can occupy. If you know where Nirvana is then go there!!!! And shut up when you do it!!!!
I deal with the same stuff you have issues with every day...and I live in Mississippi...down here the excuse is the heat and the humidity, or "they don't know any better" ... I dealt with the same stuff when I lived in Indiana...any every OTHER place I've lived...
so unless you have a plan to walk on water, I suggest you just deal with the inconveniences and try to have a nice day.