VI gun laws
Does anyone have any experience with the local gun laws? Specifically, what are the rules regarding carrying a concealed handgun? I am a NY attorney and have a NY concealed carry permit. Thanks for your input.
Do some searching on this forum and you will find your answers including a posting of the applicable VI law.
It is a time consuming paperwork intensive process. Took me six weeks at a cost of $250 which included a mandatory safety course that you need to take on island. The rules to carry on the islands are stringent, but some people manage to get around them. It depends on who you know. I finally gave up and am just licensed for home protection.
Thanks Jim, I appreciate it.
Was the six weeks/$250 process what you had to go through to be licensed for home protection as well, or is it less stringent? As my name indicates, I am from Texas and have always had guns in the home for protection.
I also orginally come from texas. The laws here are different, you might want to read up on them. Not only do they have to break into your home but you have to be able to prove they meant you serious harm like they have a gun or knife as well or you could be in trouble for shooting someone in your own home.
The standard for using deadly force in any US jurisdiction is that you have to be in fear of your life or if it isn't your life some other person has to be at risk.
That is why they tell you if you have to shoot, shoot to kill so the only story the police have is your story.
The time and cost for getting a license for either home protection or to carry is about the same. You need a couple of additional references to carry, your marksmanship needs to be better and you are supposed to have a reason such as you have to transport cash.
In texas they are in trouble as soon as they step on your property....they do not have to enter the home. Its a cattle state. Laws to vary state to state.
Phrases such as shoot to kill, they are in big trouble stepping on my property, etc will only continue the belief that St. Croix is a dangerous place. St Croix is not a cattle state. If you live on St. Croix you aren't in Texas anymore.
Yes charlie I know that, did you read any of my posts? The thread drifted off topic. I even stated you have to be careful defending yourself in the usvi because the law here are slanted towards protecting the theif. Why would you just post something inflamatory without reading the whole thread?
Betty, didn't want to be inflammatory directly to you, but the entire subject is difficult for tourists to understand. They will only read that some people on St. Croix believe they need guns to protect themselves. I'm sorry but i will never believe that guns are a necessary alternative to basic common sense.
If my husband wasnt in law enforcement we wouldnt have guns, they are almost always used against the homeowner. So I agree with you about guns but not about crime. There is too much crime on these islands imo and local police and the judical system are a joke.
I've heard from quite a few people that once they registered their gun locally they were robbed. Maybe it was just a fluke but I heard it from two completely different sources. Probably just one of those island rumors.
>>I'm sorry but i will never believe that guns are a necessary alternative to basic common sense.
Charlie, if you’re a 100 pound woman and a 200 pound man breaks into your house, “basic common sense” won’t keep him from raping you, but defending yourself with a gun will.
>>>guns, they are almost always used against the homeowner
That is absolutely not true Betty.
Analyzing National Crime Victimization Survey data, criminologist Gary Kleck found, “robbery and assault victims who used a gun to resist were less likely to be attacked or to suffer an injury than those who used any other methods of self-protection or those who did not resist at all.” In the 1990s, Kleck and Marc Gertz found that guns were used for self-protection about 2.5 million times annually. A study for the Dept. of Justice found that 34% of felons had been “scared off, shot at, wounded or captured by an armed victim,” and 40% of felons have not committed crimes, fearing potential victims were armed.
"40% of felons have not committed crimes, fearing potential victims were armed."
Wow - a felon that hasn't committed a crime. That's quite a trick.
The 1990's? Stats that are probably 15 years old at best? Hmmm....well, if one does not know how to use one's firearm in a proper manner or has a serious case of panic or deer-in-the-headlights, I can almost betcha that gun's gonna go off, not in the direction in which it was intended initially.
Charlie, weren't Kleck and Gertz the ones who also found that most personal attacks were by criminals who entered the homestead unarmed, THEN found the gun, a knife, etc. and perpetrated an attack? Can't be arrested for anything other than B & E or burglary if you don't have a weapon in your hand.....and if you wait until you're inside the house, you're basically home free on that one......on the other hand, get caught with a gun as you kick in a door? Class Y felony. Ooops....but maybe that's the 40% of felons who were afraid?
Your stats confuse me.
I believe you are referring to a false “study” which showed that you’re more likely to be killed by an intruder using your firearm than you are to be able to defend yourself. The author of this “study,” Dr. Arthur Kellerman, refused to release the data behind his conclusions for years. Subsequently available evidence shows why Kellerman stonewalled for so long: Researcher Don Kates revealed that all available data now indicates that the "home gun homicide victims [in Kellerman's study] were killed using guns NOT kept in the victim's home." In other words, the victims were NOT murdered with their own guns! They were killed "by intruders who brought their own guns to the victim's household."
Criminologists have found that law-abiding citizens use firearms as often as 2.5 million times every year in self-defense. In over 90% of these defensive uses, citizens merely brandish their gun or fire a warning shot to scare off the attacker.
Becky, here’s a scenario for you that being a woman, I hope you can relate to:
One of my best friends, I’ll call her Stacy, was horrifically attacked when she was a sophomore in college.
She came home to her apartment one night in a small Midwestern college town. The kind of town where there’s a murder maybe every 10 or 20 years. Not the kind of place where you’d ever worry about your safety.
Stacy sat down on her couch and shortly thereafter two men emerged. They had broken in through a window and were waiting for her. She did not know them and had never seen them before.
They tied her up and viciously beat, raped, and sodomized her for HOURS. They turned up the stereo really loud and made the dishwasher run so none of the neighbors would hear her scream.
They took turns brutalizing her. One would rape her while the other would hold her down. They literally beat the $hit out of her. They laughed, ate her food, and watched TV all while torturing her. I cannot imagine a scenario more horrifying than what she went through. The details I’ve given pale in comparison to hearing her tell the story.
After more than 6 hours of torturing her, the men duct taped her to the floor and left, thinking that she was dead. Eventually she went into shock, which caused her to vomit. The vomit loosened the duct tape around her mouth enough that she was able to use her tongue to dial 911 after kicking the phone onto the floor. It was a miracle that she survived.
I’d love to tell you that those men were caught and put in prison for the rest of their lives. But they have never been caught. That was 10 years ago. Stacy has lived in fear for 10 years that those men will come back to finish her off. They stole her purse, which contained all of her personal information, including her parents’ address. Those two men could find her at any time they wanted. It doesn’t matter that she’s moved from that town…they could find her if they wanted. I can google her name and find out where she works.
So what would you have her do? Be a sitting duck, waiting for them to come back? Should she continue to live her life without any means of defending herself? Those men didn’t need weapons, they easily overpowered her.
Or should she legally own a firearm and learn how to use it in the horrific event that those men come back to kill her? Or any other intruder for that matter?
All of us are a Stacy waiting to happen. It could happen to any of us. I choose to arm myself, so if someone were to try to hurt me, I’d at least have a chance.
If you choose not to own a gun, that is certainly your prerogative. And if you don’t feel comfortable owning a gun, then you probably shouldn’t have one. But for those of us who want to protect ourselves, it is our right to do so. How dare anyone tell Stacy that she shouldn’t protect herself.
Drew: I guess an attorney (especially one from New York) would need to have concealed weapon to protect him/herself!
It's a joke, Drew! I swear!! 😉 🙂
It's an awful story, TRLK - not particularly germane to the VI exclusively, which is what I thought Islander wanted us to hold this to, but anyway - if you knew more about me, you would know I was a police officer for nine years. There's nothing more frightening for a man than a crazy woman with a legal gun. I have had to tell a number of men "stop, don't go another step, or I will have to shoot you" - I was too little to defend myself, but a Glock says volumes. I could have shot without hesitation - many people, for their own personal reasons, cannot.
I won't debate with anyone about guns, I have my own thoughts and they will stay with me. All too many times, however, I have seen the victim intend to defend himself/herself and end up on the wrong end. Unless you are a practiced, trained firearms person, you got no business on the back side of a weapon. And practice is where, unfortunately, many fail to follow through.
Way off topic, but law enforcement is one of my favorite topics - next to dogs, of course......however, I have surrendered my Dear Abby license on moving dogs to and from the VI and am left with little to amuse myself with otherwise.
Skip the gun, buy a dog. Most people can figure out which end of the dog spells disaster.
I have to second getting the dog. We were robbed once on island, got a dog and never had a problem after. I really really believe that had we had the dog first, we would never had been robbed. I don't think I could live with a gun in my home as I have three children and I had a cop tell me once that her kids knew about her gun and never touched it. With her grandkids, however she had to lock it in a safe. Kids may know the rules, but their friends might not and if they don't live in the home with the rules (for example grandparents' home), they are more likely to check out the gun.
I have personally had a gun to my head and if I had a gun at the time, I don't think I would have known what to do with it and the thought of shooting the gun - missing a burglar and hitting someone else, well I just would rather have a dog than fool with any of it. The story of the living in fear for years, well I am just the type of person to move on in life and enjoy what I can get out of it. We all have an end to our life at some point. I hope to live at least to 80, but I am certainly not going to fear another gunman for the rest of my life. For people who do live in fear, get the support and therapy or whatever works for you to gain peace and happiness. Fear can become knowledge and knowledge become power. If you get a gun, get the proper training. EOR
We had a couple of dogs on the VI and a very good monitored alarm system with motion sensors and door alarms etc. Use a radio controlled collar if you have do not have a fenced yard. If your dogs are fenced, make sure that the fenced area encompasses each and every entrance to the home.
We had a "luxury home" that was fairly private, ie vulnerable. However, with the 2 big dogs I never felt as though I would ever be caught unawares.
Even a yappy little dog is good. Secrecy is an attacker's best friend.
Most people couldn't hit a barn door at 3 paces with a gun after a gallon of adrenaline has pumped thru them. They have never shot at a human being before etc.etc.
The monitored alarm system with panic button and outdoor siren and floodlight will deter all but the most determined intruder.
so Jane....(et al), are you saying with all those defenses, you still had intrusions? If so, how many and over what period of time.......and what island again? sorry I forgot. I get confused with so manhy Janes.
No intruders - couple of suspect 'visitors' - pitbull soon dissuaded them from sticking around. My point was that the dogs will often thwart a home invasion - they will just go somewhere easier.
All of me lived on StX.
Have to agree with Jane and Becky. I've never been around guns, and don't think I could use one against an intruder. I'm much better off without one.
WOW I can see this is a real touchy subject. First TRLK I am a 100 lb woman,.and would not carry a gun ever. You do not know me or where I live yet you feel you should tell me how wrong it is for a 100 lb women not to carry a gun for protection. Second Becky, I have no idea why your comments stated you don't understand my stats. I stated no stats. My one new comment would be that I do think dogs are a great asset and they are the way to go for security. There is always going to be a dividing line between those who belive it is there right to carry a gun and those you believe they will get by just fine without one. It is only an opinion.
Sorry, Charlie, picked up the wrong name - I was referring to multi-initial poster. My bad.
Thanks Becky R, I know it's a touchy subject. -- I'm going to start a new topic. VI women who men think are vulnerable and their big dogs. I hope to not get into any trouble with that.... HA ..... This really is a great .blog. The information is very helpful and the attitudes and ideas are great. Good luck all.......
I am neither pro or anti "gun", but I do find it interesting that the anecdotal passion inflaming posts are usually from the "arm the children" end of the spectrum.
Buried in the rhetoric is that fact that a good home alarm system is a great (and fairly inexpensive) aid to being proactive when it comes to personal safety and hanging on to your worldly goods.