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loucypher
(@loucypher)
Advanced Member

Honda started in the US in 1959. In doing so they nearly bankrupted Harley and put thousands in the US out of work. What a deal!

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Posted : December 30, 2013 5:52 pm
CruzanIron
(@cruzaniron)
Expert

Honda began MANUFACTURING in the USA in 1982, effectively outsourcing Japanese jobs to the USA.
Americans are fast to blame outsourcing of US jobs, but tend to ignore that many American jobs are the
result of foreign manufactures outsourcing TO the US.

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Posted : December 30, 2013 6:01 pm
loucypher
(@loucypher)
Advanced Member

Honda is not innocent in all this. Don't be so quick to defend them. There's a huge tax advantage for them to "build" their cars here. They cheat the sysytem buy shipping the majority of parts here to be assembled.

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Posted : December 30, 2013 6:11 pm
CruzanIron
(@cruzaniron)
Expert

Somehow you have strayed from your condemnation of the outsourcing of US jobs to other countries.....

I can list dozens of major companies from foreign countries that outsource their work to the US and
EMPLOY Americans. Honda was only one example of how the system works both ways.

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Posted : December 30, 2013 6:17 pm
loucypher
(@loucypher)
Advanced Member

U.S. auto workers make roughly 3 times what Japanese auto workers make. That doesn't make economic sense. Why would they do that? There has to be a huge advantage tax wise. The point is, Walmart outsources to China where workers are making something rediculous like 5 bucks a day. They're saving billions and putting Americans out of work.
Have you seen the Walmart documentary? You'll want to scream after seeing what they do to people here and over seas.
P.S. I think it all sucks.

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Posted : December 30, 2013 6:29 pm
CruzanIron
(@cruzaniron)
Expert

I didn't know that Walmart was a manufacturing company. I though it was a retailer.

You still avoid what started this - the outsourcing of US jobs.

You condemn outsourcing of US jobs resulting in the loss of jobs for Americans.
Do you equally condemn another country outsourcing jobs that results in the loss of their jobs?

Should Honda, BMW, Subaru, Nissan, etc., pull out from the US so that the jobs can stay in Japan
or the native country of their manufacturing origin?

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Posted : December 30, 2013 6:47 pm
loucypher
(@loucypher)
Advanced Member

I didn't say Walmart manufactures. Products for Walmart are manufactured in China. And I'm not avoiding anything. Quite frankly I don't care what other countries do. They can all pull up stakes and go home. Remember the bumper sticker from the 70's?
"Hungry? Out of work? Eat your effin import!

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Posted : December 30, 2013 9:37 pm
CruzanIron
(@cruzaniron)
Expert

OK, got it. Walmart is a retailer, not a manufacturer, so they are outsourcing what? The term outsourcing refers to manufacturing and services mostly, not to retailing.

And thank you for confirming your double standard - That it is bad for the US companies to send our jobs overseas, but perfectly OK for the US to steal jobs from other counties. You can't have it both ways.

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Posted : December 30, 2013 9:47 pm
rotorhead
(@rotorhead)
Trusted Member

I didn't say Walmart manufactures. Products for Walmart are manufactured in China. And I'm not avoiding anything. Quite frankly I don't care what other countries do. They can all pull up stakes and go home. Remember the bumper sticker from the 70's?
"Hungry? Out of work? Eat your effin import!

If you don't like Walmart then don't buy from them. Simple. If you want to buy only US manufactured goods then you have that right. Are you suggesting that we all should be FORCED to buy only US manufactured goods? Are you suggesting that import tariffs be raised?

I try to buy the highest quality or most cost effective products regardless of where they are manufactured. One of the reasons that the US auto manufacturers lost so much market share to other countries is that their wages went out the roof. The unions had assembly line workers at the big three earning far more than the non-unionized auto manufacturers like Toyota. The unions also killed most automation. Robotics are the future of mass manufacturing.

I think that robotics should be the future of fast food. Why have counter people at McDonalds at all. You push a few buttons and your food is delivered, quickly, single-mindedly and without attitude. It could be cooked by robots and delivered by robots. Only a few humans required to service the machines. More profits for the corporation. Cheaper food and faster service for the customers. Win-win. Made in America by Chinese manufactured machines that were designed in America.

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Topic starter Posted : December 30, 2013 11:42 pm
Exit Zero
(@exit-zero)
Trusted Member Registered

I" think that robotics should be the future of fast food. Why have counter people at McDonalds at all. You push a few buttons and your food is delivered, quickly, single-mindedly and without attitude. It could be cooked by robots and delivered by robots. Only a few humans required to service the machines. More profits for the corporation. Cheaper food and faster service for the customers. Win-win. Made in America by Chinese manufactured machines that were designed in America."

You must have enjoyed the Horn and Hardart Automat restaurants !!!

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Posted : December 31, 2013 3:10 am
gonetropo
(@gonetropo)
Advanced Member

I didn't say Walmart manufactures. Products for Walmart are manufactured in China. And I'm not avoiding anything. Quite frankly I don't care what other countries do. They can all pull up stakes and go home. Remember the bumper sticker from the 70's?
"Hungry? Out of work? Eat your effin import!

If you don't like Walmart then don't buy from them. Simple. If you want to buy only US manufactured goods then you have that right. Are you suggesting that we all should be FORCED to buy only US manufactured goods? Are you suggesting that import tariffs be raised?

.......................... One of the reasons that the US auto manufacturers lost so much market share to other countries is that their wages went out the roof. The unions had assembly line workers at the big three earning far more than the non-unionized auto manufacturers like Toyota. The unions also killed most automation. Robotics are the future of mass manufacturing.

I worked for Ford Motor for 30 years and the issue with completing with the imports was primarily union wages....PERIOD!
In the early 2000's we budgeted nearly $70/hour per union employee (which included benefits) where Toyota and the other imports came in around $9/hour! That is quite a cost differential and made it very difficult to make any money on the sale of vehicle. In fact, we sold most vehicles at a loss.

In mid 2000's Caterpillar, who was also unionized with the UAW, could no longer compete with Kubota and other foreign heavy equipment makers so they tried to negotiate lower wages with the union. I believe at the time, the foreign manufacturer were paying their workers in the $9-$13 ranger per hour. Caterpillar was in the high $20, not including benefits. The union would NOT provide Caterpillar with any concessions so they let them strike and the salaried employees in the offices took over in the plants. They were over time able to break the union and hire a totally new non-unionized workforce which not only provided more good paying jobs but also lowered their costs and helped them to become more competitive..

To top that off, every 3 years the union came looking for more, and more, and more. In the late 90's they decided that they wanted health clubs at all of our distribution centers that could be used by union employees only and not the salaried employees. In order to avert a strike, where union employees still collected 95% of their pay, we agreed to the demand. At a cost of over $1M per 18 sites, we facilitated the 'health clubs'. Six months later, they were barely being used and we went back to the union to negotiate a concession where the salaried employees could use them. You want to talk about ridiculous and this is only one small example of what the UAW has done to the US auto industry. I knew floor sweepers who were living in $500K homes and summer homes on a lake including boats, motorcycles and snowmobiles. Something isn't right about that and the prices of the vehicles were raised annually to facilitate this type of foolishness!

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Posted : December 31, 2013 11:12 am
loucypher
(@loucypher)
Advanced Member

I didn't say Walmart manufactures. Products for Walmart are manufactured in China. And I'm not avoiding anything. Quite frankly I don't care what other countries do. They can all pull up stakes and go home. Remember the bumper sticker from the 70's?
"Hungry? Out of work? Eat your effin import!

If you don't like Walmart then don't buy from them. Simple. If you want to buy only US manufactured goods then you have that right. Are you suggesting that we all should be FORCED to buy only US manufactured goods? Are you suggesting that import tariffs be raised?

I try to buy the highest quality or most cost effective products regardless of where they are manufactured. One of the reasons that the US auto manufacturers lost so much market share to other countries is that their wages went out the roof. The unions had assembly line workers at the big three earning far more than the non-unionized auto manufacturers like Toyota. The unions also killed most automation. Robotics are the future of mass manufacturing.

I think that robotics should be the future of fast food. Why have counter people at McDonalds at all. You push a few buttons and your food is delivered, quickly, single-mindedly and without attitude. It could be cooked by robots and delivered by robots. Only a few humans required to service the machines. More profits for the corporation. Cheaper food and faster service for the customers. Win-win. Made in America by Chinese manufactured machines that were designed in America.

Thanks for the heads up! I don't buy from Walmart PERIOD. I also don't buy anything not manufactured in the U.S. Try acting like an american citizen for 5 minutes. Traitor!

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Posted : December 31, 2013 2:18 pm
CruzanIron
(@cruzaniron)
Expert

No TV in your house, Loucypher?

How are you posting? Computer/tablet/smartphone?

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Posted : December 31, 2013 2:25 pm
loucypher
(@loucypher)
Advanced Member

Cute. I send smoke signals to my neighbor and he posts. I do have a 25 year old General Electric TV that works beautifully. No cell, no smart phone. I'm not obsessed with technology like everone else. I have better things to do with my money and I save a ton of it.

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Posted : December 31, 2013 4:25 pm
STX46
(@boyd46)
Advanced Member

This thread sure has gone off topic.

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Posted : December 31, 2013 7:46 pm
speee1dy
(@speee1dy)
Expert

i think most people who say they only buy american eat fruit of some sort that was bought in some other country, maybe a pair of socks or some other item of clothing. maybe a brush or a comb. maybe the furniture they sit on, the dishes they eat off of......

walmart sells the same stuff as other stores like that so stop only bashing walmart for the same thing other places do

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Posted : January 1, 2014 11:01 am
Linda J
(@Linda_J)
Expert

We want (and need) other countries to buy our products and they expect us to buy theirs. In case you haven't noticed, it's a global economy.

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Posted : January 1, 2014 12:33 pm
Exit Zero
(@exit-zero)
Trusted Member Registered

A very interesting look at Walmart in this book -- I read it when it was published in 2006 and have passed it on and recommended it for a few years -- informative and thought provoking.

http://www.walmarteffectbook.com/thebook.html

The Walmart Effect by Charles Fishman

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Posted : January 1, 2014 2:58 pm
JulieKay
(@JulieKay)
Trusted Member

This is the book I read several years ago that totally changed my viewpoint on how I shop. I do not shop at Walmart or other "discount" stores for several reasons - the largest being that we are creating a poverty culture built on disposability. I buy things made to last as much as possible, and am willing to pay more for quality in both materials and workmanship.

http://www.amazon.com/Cheap-High-Cost-Discount-Culture/dp/0143117637

Cheap: The High Cost of Discount Culture by Ellen Ruppel Shell

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Posted : January 1, 2014 3:03 pm
terry
(@terry)
Expert

😉 Linda is right.
It would be nice though if it were on a level playing field.
Japan will not allow American rice to be sold there.
China subsadises many products so they can be sold cheaply.

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Posted : January 1, 2014 3:06 pm
Tiberius
(@Tiberius)
Advanced Member

i think most people who say they only buy american eat fruit of some sort that was bought in some other country, maybe a pair of socks or some other item of clothing. maybe a brush or a comb. maybe the furniture they sit on, the dishes they eat off of......

walmart sells the same stuff as other stores like that so stop only bashing walmart for the same thing other places do

Really? Do you condone slave labor in other countries? Walmart supports it. Walmart takes out life insurance policies on it's full time employees and makes themselves the beneficiaries. Then when they get a terminal disease, the health insurance company provided by Walmart mysteriously denies the claims for medical care. The employee dies and Walmart is paid usally around a million dollars in death benefits. Most of the time leaving the survivors with huge medical debt.
Find and watch the Walmart documentary. Watch the Michael Moore film Capatalism: A Love Affair. Pay particular attention to the segment about Walmart. Still want to defend Walmart? I wouldn't piss on that place if it were on fire.

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Posted : January 1, 2014 3:11 pm
mtdoramike
(@mtdoramike)
Trusted Member

I didn't say Walmart manufactures. Products for Walmart are manufactured in China. And I'm not avoiding anything. Quite frankly I don't care what other countries do. They can all pull up stakes and go home. Remember the bumper sticker from the 70's?
"Hungry? Out of work? Eat your effin import!

If you don't like Walmart then don't buy from them. Simple. If you want to buy only US manufactured goods then you have that right. Are you suggesting that we all should be FORCED to buy only US manufactured goods? Are you suggesting that import tariffs be raised?

I try to buy the highest quality or most cost effective products regardless of where they are manufactured. One of the reasons that the US auto manufacturers lost so much market share to other countries is that their wages went out the roof. The unions had assembly line workers at the big three earning far more than the non-unionized auto manufacturers like Toyota. The unions also killed most automation. Robotics are the future of mass manufacturing.

I think that robotics should be the future of fast food. Why have counter people at McDonalds at all. You push a few buttons and your food is delivered, quickly, single-mindedly and without attitude. It could be cooked by robots and delivered by robots. Only a few humans required to service the machines. More profits for the corporation. Cheaper food and faster service for the customers. Win-win. Made in America by Chinese manufactured machines that were designed in America.

No, the reason why I stopped buying American made cars like Ford, Chevy or Dodge is because everyone that I have bought since the 70's has been junk. For Example: Chevy Malibu, blown head gasket with only 30,000 miles on it (I bought it new), Chevy Colorado, the truck would drop speed on an open hiway to 25 miles an hour. GM kept telling me it was the computer that needed to be reset, which they did, but after researching the internet, I found that they used inferior materials in the valve lifter seats which was causing the problem. GM would give you the song and dance about the computer until your vehicle was out of warranty and then they would find the problem and tell you that it would cost thousands of dollars to fix, ( this truck had 15,000 miles on it and I bought it new). I have driven several imports from VW, Toyota, Datsun/Nissan and now Honda and have never had issues with any of them for the first 50,000-75,000 miles. Plus the fit and finish of the imports far exceed the US brands for the same amount of money. So if they ever want my dollar again, start making cars that last ten years like they should, union or no union.

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Posted : January 1, 2014 3:13 pm
CruzanIron
(@cruzaniron)
Expert

OK. the VP left today right after church. You can start a new thread now.

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Posted : January 1, 2014 3:30 pm
STX46
(@boyd46)
Advanced Member

OK. the VP left today right after church. You can start a new thread now.

Thank heavens, this one was getting ridiculous

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Posted : January 1, 2014 3:36 pm
mtdoramike
(@mtdoramike)
Trusted Member

Well, did anyone go out and picket wanting to know where their Obama care and what about them?

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Posted : January 1, 2014 4:27 pm
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