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rotorhead
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December 10, 2012 6:25 pm  

"The founding fathers knew this and when the United States was originalyy established only land owners were allowed to vote"
Yes, until women started to own property and then the policy was quickly revised.

No, women were not allowed to vote until 1920. The right to vote was first transferred to the individual states to decide and the land ownership requirement was not removed entirely until 1856 when North Carolina removed this requirement.

The above quote about a democracy not being a permanent form of government was not about the US. It was used by Prof. Alexander Frazer Tytler to describe the cause for the downfall of the Athenian Republic more than 2000 years ago. At the time the colonies were still under the control of the British. It applies equally well to the direction that the US is headed.


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sheiba
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December 10, 2012 7:39 pm  

For those that do not believe government aid helps more then it hurts:

There was a study done in September 2011 " Government Aid Keeps Millions Out of poverty"
"without help from the federal government millions more people would have sunk below the poverty line in 2010, the U.S. Census data shows"

You can go here to read the full article and access the study.

http.money.cnn.com/2011/9/14/news/economy/poverty_government_assistance

rotorhead..I hear you . I understand the theory of democracy and the permanent form of government. People need to stop spending more then is available, trying to keep up with the jones' ..government and private sectors. I believe some of that spending has subsided and some have learned the lessons of getting deep into debt. and headed in a downward spiral.

I am a firm believer in social services. Is the system perfect? far from it. Lets improve the system, not eliminate it.


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rotorhead
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December 10, 2012 9:19 pm  

I am a firm believer in social services. Is the system perfect? far from it. Lets improve the system, not eliminate it.

I have never suggested that social services be eliminated. It's the improvement part that my question addressed.

I want to point out that I NEVER insulted OT. And I never called her names! I simply used information which SHE decided to make public as an example in order to ask a question. If that is out of order then let me ask the question, which by the way never got answered, using myself in the example.

Suppose you have a young family with a child who has recently leased a NEW car. Let's say the new car lease is $375 a month. They fall on hard times, a medical problem for instance. They cannot make ends meet. They decide to apply for assistance. They get assistance of $380 a month through SNAP. This assistance allows them to keep their new car. Is this fair?

I drive an 11 year old Jeep and my wife drives a 6 year old Toyota. Should we be forced to pay taxes so that this person can keep their NEW car, or should they be expected to reduce their expenses in every way possible before applying for assistance? That is the question.

Then remember that many Americans have no Internet service or only dial-up and watch TV over the air. What is fair? Should these Americans be forced to pay taxes which subsidizes someone else's ability to have services which they themselves do not have?

These are valid questions to ask.


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speee1dy
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December 10, 2012 9:53 pm  

i know that when i had food stamps for that month back in the early 80's, a neighbor went to apply because her husband was laid off too. she did not get them because her car was too new. we had a really old car with no car payments. i dont know if that is still the case or not.


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rotorhead
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December 10, 2012 10:09 pm  

i know that when i had food stamps for that month back in the early 80's, a neighbor went to apply because her husband was laid off too. she did not get them because her car was too new. we had a really old car with no car payments. i dont know if that is still the case or not.

I have no idea how thoroughly people are questioned before receiving assistance. Was the car the ONLY reason that they were denied? Was the car owned or leased? Were you required to report ALL expenses?

Another question that I have is probably going to ruffle feathers. We live in the USVI. We pay no US Income Taxes. We do not get to vote for President. Should people who pay no income taxes in the 50 states still get to vote for President? This goes back to the earlier statement about a democracy, should people who are not paying income taxes be allowed to determine how much in taxes the other people are required to pay and what the taxes are spent on? It is too easy to decide that other people should pay more to benefit you.


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sheiba
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December 10, 2012 11:00 pm  

"The founding fathers knew this and when the United States was originalyy established only land owners were allowed to vote"
Yes, until women started to own property and then the policy was quickly revised.

No, women were not allowed to vote until 1920. The right to vote was first transferred to the individual states to decide and the land ownership requirement was not removed entirely until 1856 when North Carolina removed this requirement.

The above quote about a democracy not being a permanent form of government was not about the US. It was used by Prof. Alexander Frazer Tytler to describe the cause for the downfall of the Athenian Republic more than 2000 years ago. At the time the colonies were still under the control of the British. It applies equally well to the direction that the US is headed.

When the country was founded, only property owners could vote. And at this time all property was owned by white men. As soon as black people and women began to own property, the voting laws were revised.
Also...did you know women in new jersey voted from 1776-1807? The vote was given "to all inhabitants of this colony, of full age, who are worth fifty pounds...and have resided within the county for 12months"
Women were becoming powerful party voters...the law changed in 1807 revised to "white male citizens who pay taxes" taking the vote away from women.


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speee1dy
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December 10, 2012 11:33 pm  

rotor, i think they owned the car? or were paying for it? that was about 30 years ago so i do not really remember. i just remember her saying they did not get them due to the car being too new


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rotorhead
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December 11, 2012 4:37 pm  

When the country was founded, only property owners could vote. And at this time all property was owned by white men. As soon as black people and women began to own property, the voting laws were revised.
Also...did you know women in new jersey voted from 1776-1807? The vote was given "to all inhabitants of this colony, of full age, who are worth fifty pounds...and have resided within the county for 12months"
Women were becoming powerful party voters...the law changed in 1807 revised to "white male citizens who pay taxes" taking the vote away from women.

Yes. The country was founded by white men and originally only white male property owners could vote. Actually the voting laws were revised by those same white males before women and blacks became significant property owners.

Yes. From 1776-1807 unmarried women who owned property could vote in New Jersey. Married women were not allowed to vote as their vote might cancel that of their husband and the husband was considered to be the property owner.


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noOne
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December 13, 2012 7:00 pm  

New Jersey Mayor Cory Booker: Humbled After A Week On Food Stamps

The Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, better known as food stamps, has provided the 43-year-old mayor with $33.00 (a few dollars more than I initially reported) for one week of food stamps, the average amount received by an individual food stamp recipient in New Jersey. Eating on $4.32 per day would be a challenge to almost anyone.

...

As he went through the week, he grew hungry and he was going through his food supply more quickly than he had realized he would. The cost of that olive oil would have bought week’s worth of ramen noodles, Mayor.

I eat a lot of Ramen noodles.


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noOne
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January 3, 2013 5:40 am  

I want to add that the only presents I got for Christmas were from my mom. A pair of slippers, a coffee mug, a jar of jalapeno stuffed olives, two jars of artichoke hearts, and two bags of pistachios.

Mmmm luxury food items...


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CityGuy
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January 3, 2013 5:36 pm  

What kind of Government Services and subsidies do Private Helicopters get on my dime?


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rotorhead
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January 3, 2013 7:01 pm  

What kind of Government Services and subsidies do Private Helicopters get on my dime?

Exactly the same ones that Private Airplanes get, and there are a LOT more private airplanes. Aircraft pay for their services via taxes on fuel and landing fees. Avgas is running $6.83 per gallon at STX and costs about the same as auto gas to produce. My helicopter burned 15 gallons per hour so that is about $45 per hour in taxes. Landing fees are based on aircraft weight.

But the big HOGs are religious institutions.
71 Billion ? – Forget the Corporations, Tax the Churches

http://taxthechurches.org/


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CityGuy
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January 3, 2013 7:11 pm  

Why would anyone deny SNAP for people in need and who qualify for it. SNAP is not a hobby! Why should my dime pay for hobbies.


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rotorhead
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January 3, 2013 7:39 pm  

Why would anyone deny SNAP for people in need and who qualify for it. SNAP is not a hobby! Why should my dime pay for hobbies.

Private Aircraft are not hobbies any more than automobiles are hobbies. They are a form of transportation. Is your car a hobby?

As for SNAP, the question is what does it mean to be in need? Are the qualifications set too low?


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CityGuy
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January 3, 2013 7:54 pm  

FAA subsidizes landing fees in the majority of US Airports. Private Aircraft in Alaska might be what you say is used for work:@) Who pays for the Air traffic controllers:-o. weather reports etc.(td). I think the no fee frills for flying should be paid for by the aviators.:D FREE is much to low.*-)


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rotorhead
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January 3, 2013 8:06 pm  

FAA subsidizes landing fees in the majority of US Airports. Private Aircraft in Alaska might be what you say is used for work:@) Who pays for the Air traffic controllers:-o. weather reports etc.(td). I think the no fee frills for flying should be paid for by the aviators.:D FREE is much to low.*-)

Maybe you don't read. Almost half of the cost of a gallon of avgas goes to pay for FEEs. As for ATC and weather, these services would have to exist to support commercial aviation, I guess what you are asking is whether the additional incremental cost to support private aircraft covered by the taxes collected in the aviation fuel taxes. I don't know.

What does work have to do with anything? Are all automobiles used for work? When you go out for an afternoon drive in your car who is paying for the roads and highways? How do you pay for the cost of allowing private automobiles to use the roads? Maybe the cost of a gallon of auto gas should be raised to almost $7 per gallon to pay for the roads, traffic lights, etc.

TAX THE CHURCHES. $71 billion dollars wasted!


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CityGuy
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January 3, 2013 8:14 pm  

Did you just say driving on the roads :@). Is that your attempt to equate flying for fun is the same. I would suggest you leave the people who are eligible for SNAP alone. 😀


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rotorhead
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January 3, 2013 8:37 pm  

Did you just say driving on the roads :@). Is that your attempt to equate flying for fun is the same. I would suggest you leave the people who are eligible for SNAP alone. 😀

Yes. Flying for fun is no different than driving for fun. Who pays when you drive for fun? When we fly we pay through the taxes on fuel. How do you pay when you drive? Are you a freeloader driver?

Thank you for your suggestion. I feel that as a taxpayer I have the right to question how the eligibility for SNAP is determined.

Tax the churches. $71B in taxes which are being wasted at the moment.


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rotorhead
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January 3, 2013 9:21 pm  

FAA subsidizes landing fees in the majority of US Airports. Private Aircraft in Alaska might be what you say is used for work:@) Who pays for the Air traffic controllers:-o. weather reports etc.(td). I think the no fee frills for flying should be paid for by the aviators.:D FREE is much to low.*-)

Why do you think that General Aviation is free? You are undereducated on this topic.

Airport and Airway Trust Fund (AATF)
The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) is funded primarily by the Airport and Airway Trust Fund (Trust Fund or AATF) which receives revenues from a series of excise taxes paid by users of the national airspace system — and by the General Fund. The Airport and Airway Revenue Act of 1970 created the Trust Fund to provide a dedicated source of funding for the aviation system independent of the General Fund.

The Trust Fund's purpose was to establish sources of funding that would increase concurrently with the use of the system, and assure timely and long-term commitments to capacity increases. The Trust Fund was designed to finance investments in the airport and airway system and, to the extent funds were available, cover the operating costs of the airway system as well.

Trust Fund revenues are derived from excise taxes on:
Domestic airline passenger tickets
Domestic airline passenger flight segments
International passenger arrivals and departures
Air cargo waybills
Aviation fuels
Amounts paid for the right to provide mileage awards

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/apl/aatf/


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CityGuy
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January 3, 2013 9:22 pm  

You don't pay Federal Income Tax, so why worry about something you are not paying for (SNAP). No I'm not a freeloader driver on the roads, I'm disabled, don't drive.

The General fund (what does that mean) You Fun aviators don't pay your share of the costs to fly. Yet you feel you pay enough (people that live in a glass house should not throw stones.


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rotorhead
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January 3, 2013 9:50 pm  

You Fun aviators don't pay your share of the costs to fly. Yet you feel you pay enough (people that live in a glass house should not throw stones.

This is your opinion, where are your facts?

Tax the useless churches. $71 Billion dollars wasted on mythology!


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CityGuy
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January 3, 2013 10:38 pm  

Try to read your own post, the Aviation trust fund only supplements the General fund and where does it say that FUN pilots pay into the trust fund. Your proof not mine. Pay up or shut up.:D


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rotorhead
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January 3, 2013 10:55 pm  

Try to read your own post, the Aviation trust fund only supplements the General fund and where does it say that FUN pilots pay into the trust fund. Your proof not mine. Pay up or shut up.:D

You must have a reading deficiency! The FAA website says that the FAA is funded primarily by the AATF. Almost 70% of the FAA funding comes from the AATF, not from the General Fund. http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/apl/aatf/media/AATF%20Fact%20Sheet.pdf

One of the major funding sources for AATF comes from fuel taxes. FUN pilots purchase fuel and pay these taxes, just like non-FUN pilots do. PLEASE LEARN TO READ!


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CityGuy
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January 3, 2013 11:13 pm  

You should read and try to comprehend what you post, Recreational fly boys/girls pay nada into the trust fund. With the exception of the small portion of tax on fuel. Commercial Airlines, Flyers, and pilots pay into the trust fund which is only a supplemental fund to the General Fund. The General Fund is paid by the taxpayers.:D


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rotorhead
(@rotorhead)
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January 4, 2013 2:03 am  

You should read and try to comprehend what you post, Recreational fly boys/girls pay nada into the trust fund. With the exception of the small portion of tax on fuel. Commercial Airlines, Flyers, and pilots pay into the trust fund which is only a supplemental fund to the General Fund. The General Fund is paid by the taxpayers.:D

Once again, all opinion and no supporting facts. If the trust fund is only supplemental to the general fund then why does the FAA website say that almost 70% of their funding comes from the trust fund.

AATF History
• Created by the Airport and Airway Development and
Revenue Act of 1970 to finance aviation programs
– Revenues are derived from aviation-related excise
taxes on passengers, cargo, and fuel
– Provides funding for capital improvements to the
U.S. airport and airways system
– Provides the majority of funding for the Federal
Aviation Administration
• 69.6% in FY 2009
• 66.6% in FY 2010
• 68.8% in FY 2011


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