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islandjoan
(@islandjoan)
Trusted Member

It's worth discussing again.

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Posted : November 25, 2014 3:36 pm
OldTart
(@the-oldtart)
Expert

It's worth discussing again.

Of course you're entitled to your opinion but the subject has been done to death in many former threads and it's all repetitive and always veers off into "constitutional rights". If you want to own or carry a gun here then just do what's legally required.

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Posted : November 25, 2014 3:50 pm
CruzanIron
(@cruzaniron)
Expert

It's worth discussing again.

Of course you're entitled to your opinion but the subject has been done to death in many former threads and it's all repetitive and always veers off into "constitutional rights". If you want to own or carry a gun here then just do what's legally required.

Yep, what she said. No one here is saying that you should not exercise your right to own a gun.

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Posted : November 25, 2014 3:56 pm
Spartygrad95
(@Spartygrad95)
Trusted Member

Exactly. My problem is designating people responsible gun owners and then say they never commit a crime or have accidents. It's pretty cool how they twist that. More power to you if you want a gun.

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Posted : November 25, 2014 4:05 pm
AandA2VI
(@AandA2VI)
Trusted Member

I know this thread is populated with a bunch of gun 'advocates', but what about an outright island wide ban on all handguns. Phased in with amnesty programs, border policing, and increased mandatory sentences for violations. This is part of my manifesto when I run for King after STX succeeds from STT/STJ.

Because that doesn't work dude, you can't be serious. We can't even elect officials correctly, keep crooks from being senators and give proper jail time to heads of DPNR smuggling in cocaine. I applaud your idea and it's what I would love to see happen too but it's just not reality.

Desperate times call for desperate measures.

I am personally not for guns. BUT I will say that is everyone was armed here, criminals would ABSOLUTLY think twice about robbing and home break ins. I do think in our case it might be a good idea.

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Posted : November 25, 2014 4:17 pm
robert.hamic
(@robert.hamic)
Advanced Member

I think the guy that shot that kid was wrong and acted horribly. His actions were not responsible.

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Topic starter Posted : November 25, 2014 4:18 pm
CruzanIron
(@cruzaniron)
Expert

I think the guy that shot that kid was wrong and acted horribly. His actions were not responsible.

And it has no bearing on this discussion.

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Posted : November 25, 2014 4:25 pm
Spartygrad95
(@Spartygrad95)
Trusted Member

I think the guy that shot that kid was wrong and acted horribly. His actions were not responsible.

but before his became irresponsible he was responsible? That is my problem.. who is really a responsible gun owner? Everyone is one wig out. One lapse of judgment, one careless mistake from being irresponsible

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Posted : November 25, 2014 4:26 pm
LiquidFluoride
(@LiquidFluoride)
Trusted Member

Exactly. My problem is designating people responsible gun owners and then say they never commit a crime or have accidents. It's pretty cool how they twist that. More power to you if you want a gun.

You added "never" and "have accidents".

Personally I do not believe in "accidents" there is always a party at fault in any incident; however we do not ban all cars because of a few "accidents" do we (a few more thousand a year die from vehicles when compared to fire arms), nor do we ban Dr prescribed medicine because of "a few" accidents (a few HUNDRED THOUSAND more die each year than from fire arms)?

I think it's pretty cool how logic is tossed out the window on some of these topics.

I believe in equal opportunity. if you are not willing to break the law the people of the USVI do not have equal opportunity to protect themselves when compared to the criminal element (which is very large, % wise since simply owning a gun makes you a criminal).

I think the guy that shot that kid was wrong and acted horribly. His actions were not responsible.

but before his became irresponsible he was responsible? That is my problem.. who is really a responsible gun owner? Everyone is one wig out. One lapse of judgment, one careless mistake from being irresponsible

Apparently the same can be said of Car owners, and Pharmacists / doctors.

Your logic is flawed in this; yes we are human in everything we do.

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Posted : November 25, 2014 4:32 pm
IslandHops
(@IslandHops)
Trusted Member

Note I didn't advocate for outlawing guns and I believe firmly in the constitution. I only advocate to do away with handguns. If you want a shotgun or rifle for hunting or home defense then fine.

I see no real purpose for handguns except for one person to inflict bodily harm on another person. it's that simple. If handguns were banned I think it would be much easier to enforce than the 'selective availability' policy under the VI Government.

I can't obtain a permit and buy a handgun for self defense under the current VI Government policies as I have not been a victim of assault nor own a business with a reason to carry. Yet we all know the crims on the street carry all day long. Current enforcement of gun laws in VI courts is a joke and certainly no deterrent. I say even the playing field and ban all handguns. Nothing else has worked so far.

And if you think it can't work, do some research into other countries policies and changes over the years. Just because the USA is #1 doesn't mean we can't learn from others experience, adapt, and thrive.

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Posted : November 25, 2014 4:32 pm
islandjoan
(@islandjoan)
Trusted Member

You can ban handguns all you want, but the criminals will STILL get them.

It's ridiculous to even suggest a ban!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Posted : November 25, 2014 4:38 pm
LiquidFluoride
(@LiquidFluoride)
Trusted Member

. I say even the playing field and ban all handguns. Nothing else has worked so far.

Well we banned all drugs, how's that working?

Prohibition does NOT work, it never has.

And if you think it can't work, do some research into other countries policies and changes over the years. Just because the USA is #1 doesn't mean we can't learn from others experience, adapt, and thrive.

Please do list some of these examples, I've looked and only seen evidence supporting less gun control laws. (for example: did you know England is now pushing to ban knives?)

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Posted : November 25, 2014 4:41 pm
vicanuck
(@vicanuck)
Expert

I know this thread is populated with a bunch of gun 'advocates', but what about an outright island wide ban on all handguns. Phased in with amnesty programs, border policing, and increased mandatory sentences for violations. This is part of my manifesto when I run for King after STX succeeds from STT/STJ.

I really laughed out loud when I read this post.

An outright ban on all hand guns would be about as effective as a law against talking on your cell phone when driving or stopping at Stop signs in the VI.

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Posted : November 25, 2014 4:43 pm
Spartygrad95
(@Spartygrad95)
Trusted Member

So tell me again why we have any laws? LF the logic of calling someone a responsible gun owner is flawed. How can one be responsible and not at the same time. Listen I am not advocating no guns. I owned guns in the States. I am just tired of the good guy with a gun/responsible argument. The analogy to cars/drs is apples to oranges. Neither docs nor cars are designed our meant to kill/inflict injury

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Posted : November 25, 2014 4:46 pm
AandA2VI
(@AandA2VI)
Trusted Member

I think the guy that shot that kid was wrong and acted horribly. His actions were not responsible.

Wait what??? Are you suggesting that they not shoot at a 13 yerat old who is holding a gun and shooting innocent people? I mean really, is that what you're suggesting? If so, perhaps you should grab a ruler and walk up to the gun weilding deviant and give a good old smack on the hand? After all I'm sure that'll teach em. :0 let me know how that goes please.

Holy crap - I hope I misunderstood your post and that's not what you meant.

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Posted : November 25, 2014 4:49 pm
aussie
(@aussie)
Trusted Member

If you want a shotgun or rifle for hunting or home defense then fine.

A rifle for self defense? Heh heh, if you're picking 'em off at 100 yards, I think that kinda misses the mark, so to speak, on what constitutes self defense. 🙂

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Posted : November 25, 2014 4:50 pm
Spartygrad95
(@Spartygrad95)
Trusted Member

I also agree that guns are not the cause of issues. We are a warring nation. That is a fact. We see our military bombing people to dust. Violence is a solution when you are bombarded with it. Even though SCOTUS declared racism dead. It still exists. Sorry. Income inequality is another major factor. Guns are tools..

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Posted : November 25, 2014 4:50 pm
LiquidFluoride
(@LiquidFluoride)
Trusted Member

Guns are tools..

exactly, I would treat them just like a car, though perhaps a bit more responsibly.

You need a class and a license to get them, and to own a hand gun I would require "qualification" if you cannot put 10 rounds (of the caliber you will be using) into a target at 25 meters you do not get to own one.

But other than that, I would encourage gun ownership, widely.

I came from Alaska, probably the easiest place to own a gun; that didn't turn it into the wild west, and while it was common to see 1 out of 5 people openly carrying a gun I NEVER heard gun shots at night (here it's rare that a week goes by when I don't).

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Posted : November 25, 2014 4:56 pm
Spartygrad95
(@Spartygrad95)
Trusted Member

LF. Let's solve those other problems before we have universal gun ownership

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Posted : November 25, 2014 5:04 pm
rotorhead
(@rotorhead)
Trusted Member

Violent people will always find a "tool" to use.

I say that we eliminate violent people. Give them one chance to change but if they commit two acts of violence against others then eliminate them.

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Posted : November 25, 2014 5:08 pm
LiquidFluoride
(@LiquidFluoride)
Trusted Member

LF. Let's solve those other problems before we have universal gun ownership

except, we already have universal gun ownership.

If the constitution truly does apply here, one challenge to the USVI laws would change them, like what happened in Chicago and Washington DC recently.

Violent people will always find a "tool" to use.

I say that we eliminate violent people. Give them one chance to change but if they commit two acts of violence against others then eliminate them.

Hard for me to disagree with that.

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Posted : November 25, 2014 5:10 pm
Spartygrad95
(@Spartygrad95)
Trusted Member

Violent people will always find a "tool" to use.

I say that we eliminate violent people. Give them one chance to change but if they commit two acts of violence against others then eliminate them.

Eliminating violent people with violence will end violence. Gotcha.

LF the constitution provides the right. Not the requirement.

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Posted : November 25, 2014 5:13 pm
rotorhead
(@rotorhead)
Trusted Member

Violent people will always find a "tool" to use.

I say that we eliminate violent people. Give them one chance to change but if they commit two acts of violence against others then eliminate them.

In addition, I think that people who commit acts of violence against animals should go on a watch list. This is usually a precursor for acts of violence against other people.

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Posted : November 25, 2014 5:22 pm
Spartygrad95
(@Spartygrad95)
Trusted Member

Violent people will always find a "tool" to use.

I say that we eliminate violent people. Give them one chance to change but if they commit two acts of violence against others then eliminate them.

In addition, I think that people who commit acts of violence against animals should go on a watch list. This is usually a precursor for acts of violence against other people.

What is a violent act against an animal? Eating it? Hunting it?

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Posted : November 25, 2014 5:29 pm
IslandHops
(@IslandHops)
Trusted Member

Here's an example - Australia's gun control policy changes over the past 20 years...

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/12/16/opinion/australia-gun-laws/index.html

http://loc.gov/law/help/firearms-control/australia.php

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Australia

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Posted : November 25, 2014 5:39 pm
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