POTUS Overreach on Immigation  

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gonetropo
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November 20, 2014 1:31 pm  

Seems as though the 'Emperor in Chief' is going to cast a constitutionally illegal shadow on the country tonight and break ties with his African-American constituency, maybe for good.

For decades, the black vote in the United States almost uniformly has gone to Democrats.

How’s that working out?

Black unemployment is twice the national average, poverty rates are higher than before Democrats offered “help,” and the education system fails a disproportionate number of black children. That’s what 50-plus years of blind voting loyalty to Democrats has earned.
And, thanks to those same Democrats and the nation’s first black president, it’s about to get a lot worse.

The POTUS is set to legalize upwards of 5 million illegal aliens, with the dream of granting amnesty and citizenship to 6 million to 25 million more, based on estimates and chain migration. These aren’t Ph.D.s with seed capital ready to start tech companies; they’re low- and no-skilled workers with limited English skills ready to take any job available, especially entry-level jobs.

After decades of embracing Democrats on a national and local level, the black community is disproportionately poor and, therefore, a higher percentage of the Americans likely to be competing for those entry-level jobs.

The Supreme Court may have to rule on this once it gets its hands of the briefs and it could occur very soon. Our government was established as a constitutional democracy with distinct duties between the branches. Congress makes the laws and the POTUS enforces them. Seems as though we now have a dictatorship. Everyone should be outraged over this


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speee1dy
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November 20, 2014 4:58 pm  

and the unemployment rate isnt high enough already. can you imagine how much worse it could get. not just those here illegally now but when / if this passes millions more will show up thinking they can get in too. WTF, where are his economic advisers or heck, even his political advisers. this is such a horrible move


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rotorhead
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November 20, 2014 5:18 pm  

He is trying to create a whole new wave of Democratic voters. Simple.

I support immigration. Legal immigration. Illegal immigration is against the law even if you change the name to undocumented worker. Illegal immigrants should be deported and the people who knowingly hire them should be prosecuted.

The president's plan is unfair to the people who have applied for legal immigration status and completed the process.

In addition, the law needs to be changed from "anyone born in the US is a US citizen" to requiring that at least one of the parents must be a US citizen. Get rid of the concept of "anchor babies". It should be illegal for someone to sneak across the border, have a baby and expect to become a US citizen.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
They say there's a heaven for those who will wait
Some say it's better but I say it ain't
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
the sinners are much more fun...
You know that only the good die young.
BJ


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gonetropo
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November 20, 2014 5:51 pm  

He is trying to create a whole new wave of Democratic voters. Simple.

I support immigration. Legal immigration. Illegal immigration is against the law even if you change the name to undocumented worker. Illegal immigrants should be deported and the people who knowingly hire them should be prosecuted.

The president's plan is unfair to the people who have applied for legal immigration status and completed the process.

In addition, the law needs to be changed from "anyone born in the US is a US citizen" to requiring that at least one of the parents must be a US citizen. Get rid of the concept of "anchor babies". It should be illegal for someone to sneak across the border, have a baby and expect to become a US citizen.

Fully agree Rotohead
Illegal is illegal and nothing he does or proclaims is going to alter that. He is going against his own words regarding his unlawful proclamation tonight.

Yes, we need to eliminate the 'anchor baby' law. Illegals tromp over the border, drop a baby and claim they are now citizens.

We need immigrants with skills and education, not more who are going to game the system to it's fullestt.


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Spartygrad95
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November 20, 2014 7:02 pm  

This is a way more complicated issue than just "they are illegal". People are not illegal. United States immigration law as it stands allows for some of the fewest legal immigrants of industrial nations. People would not cross the border illegally if jobs here were not thirsty for cheap labor. First let's acknowledge that fact. It's always the reaction to go after the weakest and last powerful it seems lately. I also do not remember this outrage when both Reagan and Bush used executive orders to grant amnesty. Our immigration system is broke. There has been a bill on the floor of the House of Representatives since July 2013 which no vote has been allowed on. I do not support executive action in this matter but I can see the logic (even if it's faulty). This is political. It is sad. People come here for a better life. Most do NOT come for handouts. We are losing our way as a nation. The xenophobic tendencies lately I am seeing are saddening to me. This is what our nation used to stand for

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.

"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"


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rotorhead
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November 20, 2014 7:57 pm  

People may not be illegal, but people who enter the country without going through the proper procedures are doing so illegally. They are breaking the law.

Every country has a right to control access to their borders. All of the Latin American countries do it. I have checked into Mexico and Panama with an interest in retiring there for a while. They both have very strict requirements as do the other Latin countries. Why shouldn't we be able to do the same? All countries have a right to screen immigrants before allowing them into the country.

They all require that you 1)Prove that you are not a criminal by making you submit a letter from your local police. 2)Prove that you have a means to support yourself without depending on their social services. 3)Prove that you are in good health and are not carrying a contagious disease. If you plan to work when you get there, you have to be willing to invest in a business to the tune of $100,000 or you have to be sponsored by a company in that country. Why shouldn't the US be able to do the same?

As for the cheap labor argument. You are preaching to the choir. The people who knowingly employ illegal immigrants are breaking the law as well and should be prosecuted. We have enough people who are US citizens and need jobs that we do not need to bring in more.

We learned from the Reagan amnesty program that if you give amnesty, even though you say that it is a one time thing, it simply encourages more to enter illegally. Besides the President can't change the law, all he can do is to refuse to enforce the law. He is simply deferring deportation. The next republican president simply rescinds the executive order and they are illegal and deported again.

You say that we have less immigration than the rest of the world. Is this really true? If you count the fact that we have over 1 million legal immigrants coming into the country each year in addition to the illegal ones, which no one knows how many for sure.

"Nearly 41 million immigrants lived in the United States in 2012—a historical numeric high for a country that has been a major destination for international migrants throughout its history. About 20 percent of all international migrants reside in the United States, which accounts for less than 5 percent of the world’s population."
http://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/frequently-requested-statistics-immigrants-and-immigration-united-states

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
They say there's a heaven for those who will wait
Some say it's better but I say it ain't
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
the sinners are much more fun...
You know that only the good die young.
BJ


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Alana33
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November 20, 2014 10:59 pm  

As Spartygrad95 quoted:

"The xenophobic tendencies lately I am seeing are saddening to me. This is what our nation used to stand for:"

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.

"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

How many of you complaining actually have ancestors that originated in the Americas? Hate to break it to you but WE are not indigenous. Our ancestors all came from somewhere else looking for a new life, freedom and opportunities. That's what the Statue of Liberty stands for. If you don't like it, move to another country.


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rotorhead
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November 20, 2014 11:36 pm  

Wow! Why is it if you support immigration but not illegal immigration that you are xenophobic? Do you think that we should do away with immigration laws altogether?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
They say there's a heaven for those who will wait
Some say it's better but I say it ain't
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
the sinners are much more fun...
You know that only the good die young.
BJ


ReplyQuote
gonetropo
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Posts: 427
November 21, 2014 1:29 am  

There is certainly a group that believes that there should be NO borders. Let's just all move around from place to place whenever we want. Right!

No borders, no rules, no responsibility, no accountability, free healthcare, free education, EBT cards, and now free underwear for our recent, should I dare to say ILLEGAL immigrants. Just come on in and the rest of us will support them. What a splendid idea this is! And we wonder why our infrastructure is falling apart and we have $18T in debt and a real 12% unemployment rate with the lowest labor participation ever. .

So no borders means no meaningful method to collect taxes. We are all doomed!

We have a home in Uruguay and it takes 3 years to become a resident and 5 years to become a citizen. Police reports, income reports, tax returns, etc. need to all be submitted to the Immigration Agency during an interview. They don't want a bunch of people living on the rest of their hard working citizens. You can stay there for 90 days and then they come looking for you. They have laws and they actually enforce them.

Wow, what a novel idea this is.

I suppose Obama can unleash his biscuit eaters to blame all immigration woes on conservatives. But all the demagoguery can't change this, and all the race cards in all the race card decks in all of American politics can't change it.

It is a wrongheaded approach, especially since the president has stated for years that he couldn't act alone.

Should immigration be "fixed," as the president now so urgently demands?

Yes. But not by edict of a Boss. It should be hammered out, loudly, vigorously, painfully, but not by executive fiat.


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Spartygrad95
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November 21, 2014 8:14 am  

There is certainly a group that believes that there should be NO borders. Let's just all move around from place to place whenever we want. Right!

No borders, no rules, no responsibility, no accountability, free healthcare, free education, EBT cards, and now free underwear for our recent, should I dare to say ILLEGAL immigrants. Just come on in and the rest of us will support them. What a splendid idea this is! And we wonder why our infrastructure is falling apart and we have $18T in debt and a real 12% unemployment rate with the lowest labor participation ever. .

So no borders means no meaningful method to collect taxes. We are all doomed!

First off the infrastructure is falling apart because govt officials find it not important to bomb people, bail out crooked Wall Street banksters and lower taxes on millionaires and billionaires than spend money on bridges and roads (which will lower the 12% real unemployment). Second if you think the 18T debt is from "handouts" well you need to go look at our expenditues again. I never said no borders.. but I would agree with free healthcare and school.. if they were ever brought to a vote (they wont because this is Merica.. not some stinkin commie eurotrash country)

We have a home in Uruguay and it takes 3 years to become a resident and 5 years to become a citizen. Police reports, income reports, tax returns, etc. need to all be submitted to the Immigration Agency during an interview. They don't want a bunch of people living on the rest of their hard working citizens. You can stay there for 90 days and then they come looking for you. They have laws and they actually enforce them.

Wow, what a novel idea this is.

I suppose Obama can unleash his biscuit eaters to blame all immigration woes on conservatives. But all the demagoguery can't change this, and all the race cards in all the race card decks in all of American politics can't change it.

It is a wrongheaded approach, especially since the president has stated for years that he couldn't act alone.

Should immigration be "fixed," as the president now so urgently demands?

Yes. But not by edict of a Boss. It should be hammered out, loudly, vigorously, painfully, but not by executive fiat.

Racism is dead. SCOTUS declared our so... also money is speech and corporations are people. Yay


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LiquidFluoride
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November 21, 2014 12:29 pm  

Strict immigration laws are there to protect and maintain the global 1%.

(btw, if you make $36,000 a year or more you are the global 1%).

removal of these laws will quickly erode the 1%, energy is too expensive to sustain enough income producing jobs for the population of the planet and our model of 100% employment is (ridiculous) un attainable at that level also.

Since the system is designed with massive levels of poverty and a steep pyramidal structure to wealth built in, immigration laws are mandatory to keep the status quo.

There was a [URL="http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/abinazir/2011/06/15/what-are-chances-you-would-be-born/"]1: 400,000,000,000,000[/URL] chance of you being born: what have you done with your miraculous life today?


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Spartygrad95
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November 21, 2014 12:38 pm  

I'm waiting for the "my ancestors did it the right way, legally" argument. That one is my favorite. Basically you are telling me that your family was lucky enough to be white, western Europe, non Jewish since throughout our country's history we have, in fact, excluded immigrants that were not up to American standards apparently.


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JohnnyU
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November 21, 2014 1:10 pm  

Were there the same level of entitlements in 1886 as there is today?

Its a complex issue and if placed in the same situation as many SOTB, I'd be busting my ass to get into the US as well either legally or illegally.

There needs to be a common ground between knowing who's in the country and how we deal with the impacts to the existing systems


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rotorhead
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November 21, 2014 3:45 pm  

The POTUS is eagerly awaiting a bi-partisan immigration bill from congress? I think that he should wait until January for a bi-partisan bill from the NEW congress.

Then it would be more like the bi-partisan healthcare bill that was passed in 2010.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
They say there's a heaven for those who will wait
Some say it's better but I say it ain't
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
the sinners are much more fun...
You know that only the good die young.
BJ


ReplyQuote
rotorhead
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Posts: 2457
November 21, 2014 4:57 pm  

“The biggest problems that we’re facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all, and that’s what I intend to reverse when I’m President of the United States of America.”

– Senator Barack Obama, March 31, 2008

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
They say there's a heaven for those who will wait
Some say it's better but I say it ain't
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
the sinners are much more fun...
You know that only the good die young.
BJ


ReplyQuote
rotorhead
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Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 2457
November 21, 2014 6:13 pm  

Were there the same level of entitlements in 1886 as there is today?

Its a complex issue and if placed in the same situation as many SOTB, I'd be busting my ass to get into the US as well either legally or illegally.

There needs to be a common ground between knowing who's in the country and how we deal with the impacts to the existing systems

Good questions. In 1886 the world-wide population was 1.5 billion. Today the world-wide population is over 7 billion. In 1886 people were more self sufficient, they were expected to provide for themselves, there was no social safety net. The safety net concept was a post world war 2 European idea. This experiment is still underway in Europe and it is not clear whether it is sustainable with increased immigration and high unemployment. It is basically the same problem that our social security system has. Can a system be sustainable when more people are collecting than are paying in?

I think that if I were in the same situation as our illegal immigrants that I would also seek something better. But despite that I think that a country has a right to control the people who cross its borders. We want people who are coming to help our country not people who are coming to take advantage of our country. We do not want criminals coming in. We do not want people with contagious diseases coming in. We do not want to be overrun with economic refugees. Our economy could not sustain that.

Our attitudes have changed. If you are successful (1%) then you must have crawled over someone else to get there. We no longer want freedom because freedom requires personal responsibility. We now want to be taken care of.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
They say there's a heaven for those who will wait
Some say it's better but I say it ain't
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
the sinners are much more fun...
You know that only the good die young.
BJ


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JohnnyU
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Posts: 465
November 21, 2014 8:00 pm  

Strict immigration laws are there to protect and maintain the global 1%.

(btw, if you make $36,000 a year or more you are the global 1%).

removal of these laws will quickly erode the 1%, energy is too expensive to sustain enough income producing jobs for the population of the planet and our model of 100% employment is (ridiculous) un attainable at that level also.

Since the system is designed with massive levels of poverty and a steep pyramidal structure to wealth built in, immigration laws are mandatory to keep the status quo.

Are you arguing that the if supply of labor becomes near infinite the costs of labor will drop or something else?


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malibutexan07
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November 22, 2014 12:45 pm  

Hate to break it to you but WE are not indigenous. Our ancestors all came from somewhere else looking for a new life, freedom and opportunities.

Even the native americans came to the Americas across the Bering land bridge thousands of years ago. _


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Alana33
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November 22, 2014 6:45 pm  

My Point Exactly.
And they came in search of of a new life here as well.

I'm not saying we should not have any immigration rules or laws but obviously there needs to be reforms and protections in place for hardworking and law abiding immigrants that wish to make a new life.

Tis a slippery slope in this day and age of managing threats to our way of life and security of a nation and providing refuge to those in need and willing to contribute.


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rotorhead
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November 22, 2014 7:02 pm  

Obama’s Immigration Amnesia

Maria Elena Salinas of Univision: Now I know that you have reduced, this is another concern on Twitter, the number of deportations of non-criminals. However, in 2012 more than 184,000 non-criminals were deported. In the spirit of your push for immigration reform, would you consider a moratorium on deportations of non-criminals? Remember, these are your words: “This is not about policy. It’s about people.”

Obama: Well, I think it is important to remind everybody that, as I said I think previously, and I’m not a king. I am the head of the executive branch of government. I’m required to follow the law. And that’s what we’ve done. But what I’ve also said is, let’s make sure that we’re applying the law in a way that takes into account people’s humanity. That’s the reason that we moved forward on deferred action. Within the confines of the law we said, we have some discretion in terms of how we apply this law. The same is true with respect to the kinds of the length of time that people have to spend outside of the country when their spouses are already here for example.

http://www.factcheck.org/2014/11/obamas-immigration-amnesia/

But the question is whether or not he is simply deferring deportation. His executive order requires a new bureaucracy which will screen applicants to make sure that they meet his selection criteria for deportation, background checks to make sure when they snuck into the country, birth records checks, etc. all costing money that congress will be required to fund or NOT.
And while he might be able to defer deportation, the law does not allow him to give out work permits.

Is he president or King?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
They say there's a heaven for those who will wait
Some say it's better but I say it ain't
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
the sinners are much more fun...
You know that only the good die young.
BJ


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gonetropo
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Posts: 427
November 24, 2014 7:12 pm  

Agree, but we are not talking about immigrants who filed to enter the country LEGALLY,
and had the ambition and idea to begin a new life in a new country with NEW customs and learn English. We have enough people requiring ongoing support forever.

We are talking about a bunch of mostly non-educated people who slipped over the border under the radar and now want America to be like where they came from.
This is America and not little Mexico, little Guatamala, little Honduras, little Salvador, little Saudi Arabia, et. al.

I am more that welcoming to all who come to America with the intentions of being AMERICANS and adopt our way of life and not bring theirs for us to adopt to.

We are at our home in Uruguay now and we are not interested in making Uruguay a little America. We also pay property taxes, and rental taxes and IVA here so we are contributing to the country. We have invested in this country and we can proudly say and no Uruguayan citizen is expending any of their personal wealth to have us here. We have no desire to change the country as it is unique the way it is.


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Spartygrad95
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November 25, 2014 9:34 am  

Don't worry xenophobes.. it is already legal and accepted that cops can kill black kids so I'm sure in the near future they will train there weapons on these new immigrants in little Mexico and life will be restored to how it was in Norman Rockwell paintings


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JohnnyU
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November 25, 2014 11:28 am  

SJW much?


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Spartygrad95
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November 25, 2014 11:42 am  

SJW much?

Had to Google that one. I'm a social justice warrior. Yay. Just like my main man Jesus.


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rotorhead
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November 25, 2014 4:55 pm  

From Urban Dictionary.

Social Justice Warrior. A pejorative term for an individual who repeatedly and vehemently engages in arguments on social justice on the Internet, often in a shallow or not well-thought-out way, for the purpose of raising their own personal reputation. A social justice warrior, or SJW, does not necessarily strongly believe all that they say, or even care about the groups they are fighting on behalf of. They typically repeat points from whoever is the most popular blogger or commenter of the moment, hoping that they will "get SJ points" and become popular in return. They are very sure to adopt stances that are "correct" in their social circle.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
They say there's a heaven for those who will wait
Some say it's better but I say it ain't
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
the sinners are much more fun...
You know that only the good die young.
BJ


ReplyQuote
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