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aussie
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noOne
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September 4, 2014 3:30 pm  

I'm sorry but, LOL.

//not at the people losing money. Just the whole concept of it.


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Jamison
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September 4, 2014 4:12 pm  

That is shady as heck.


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IslandHops
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September 4, 2014 4:43 pm  

The EDC benefits can be taken advantage of by any business model subject to short term gains. What is not a feasible or sustainable business when subject to full taxation, becomes a golden opportunity given a substantial tax break.

Not all EDC beneficiaries follow this philosophy. Some are about making things and doing right by their employees and community. In the end it's up to the EDA Commissioners to approve the right applicants under the program.


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noOne
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September 4, 2014 5:52 pm  

Yeah I agree that (if I catch you right) tax breaks for companies down there stimulates a lot of the local economy. It's just the combination of taking advantage of a whole set of things that allowed this to happen.


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Alana33
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September 4, 2014 5:53 pm  

HA!


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noOne
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September 4, 2014 5:56 pm  

I do wonder what full cheap fast access that hopefully will eventually be there, what companies that are internet based without much impact on the local economy in (I guess) this type of situation will show up?

EditL I.E. not really benefiting the local economy, and what laws may come of it?

Well there was the 809 scam and Prosser...


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Kokonut
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September 5, 2014 12:51 pm  

An interesting article indeed! I wonder how soon until they get busted?


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Iris Tramm
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September 9, 2014 10:45 am  

That is shady as heck.

You have NO IDEA. Can't tell you how I know. But I know.

IT


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pt
 pt
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September 9, 2014 11:04 am  

Thanks for posting this. Ain' t capitalism grand?


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stiphy
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September 9, 2014 1:03 pm  

This is not new or news, they've been here for quite a few years, and anyone who asks the principals in this company knows what they do. They are quite prominent and involved in the local community, and I'm sure many on this board know them personally or are friends with them (I am, as well as friends with many of their employees).

The way I see it, Cane Bay is taking a legal position that drives certain AG's in states trying to ban their product crazy. So far none of the AG's have been able to pin them down legally so they are resorting to slinging mud in the media for now. To me that is a bit "shady."

Personally I see payday loans as unglamorous but often an unfortunate necessity for poor working people. I'd rather live in a world where no one was poor and needed these products, but that is not the real world. To someone with credit looks like a flagrant rip off, but you have to remember that these guys are giving cash to someone with no credit rating at all with a very low probability (compared to bank loans) of being paid back. This industry has always been around, at least now it's not run by the Mob who breaks knee caps when someone doesn't pay (and a very high percentage of people don't pay). Many poor peoples use these products responsibly to lower their overall costs...eg. someone gets a flat and has no money to fix it in order to get to work so they either can bounce a check (at a $35 bank fee and law breaking) to get the tire or get a payday loan at a $20 fee and immediately pay it back saving $15. Of course many don't use it this way and end up foolishly rolling their loans over and over again which is a bad thing to do financially.

Sean


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noOne
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September 9, 2014 1:36 pm  

The way I see it, Cane Bay is taking a legal position that drives certain AG's in states trying to ban their product crazy. So far none of the AG's have been able to pin them down legally so they are resorting to slinging mud in the media for now. To me that is a bit "shady."

It is illegal in many states (the NY AG is going after one company), so they are no trying to pin them down, the company has taken an active stance that says there is a loophole in the law, where if they are based off shore they get special banking considerations and don't have to follow state law. The USVI is just a willing stepping stone to this type of illegal activity.

What changes need to be made I am not sure because these companies are claiming to be outright outside of the jurisdiction of the states, but like I said before, expect more of this type of business to setup in the USVI, as it is business as usual.


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stiphy
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September 9, 2014 1:49 pm  

It is illegal in many states (the NY AG is going after one company), so they are no trying to pin them down, the company has taken an active stance that says there is a loophole in the law, where if they are based off shore they get special banking considerations and don't have to follow state law. The USVI is just a willing stepping stone to this type of illegal activity.

What changes need to be made I am not sure because these companies are claiming to be outright outside of the jurisdiction of the states, but like I said before, expect more of this type of business to setup in the USVI, as it is business as usual.

That is what I mean by trying to pin them down but can't. So far their stance has held up which is driving the AG's crazy.

I wish the story would've reported this without the hyperbole. Banks, Wall Street, and many other financial industries use these exact same kinds of loopholes and most of them are NOT in the VI but in NYC. To point a finger at this industry like it is any different than other financial industry out there right now is a bit disingenuous. The irony of this coming out of Bloomberg which makes it's money coddling to loophole seekers of all kinds of ilk is not lost on me.

Sean


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OldTart
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September 9, 2014 2:13 pm  

It is illegal in many states (the NY AG is going after one company) ... but like I said before, expect more of this type of business to setup in the USVI, as it is business as usual

"Payday is legal in 27 states, with 9 others allowing some form of short term storefront lending with restrictions. The remaining 14 and the District of Columbia forbid the practice."

As has been pointed out, the current issues are primarily with implementing and enforcing regulations. I see no reason to generally assume your contention.


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IslandHops
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September 9, 2014 3:17 pm  

Legal does not always equate to morally acceptable. It's all a matter of timing.

Yes a business is in business to make money. But isn't it better for all, if not just the reputation of the VI, that we encourage more socially responsible companies. Thoughts for those in power to consider and to vote fairly, but with conscience.


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Alana33
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September 9, 2014 3:34 pm  

Legal does not always equate to morally acceptable.

I quite agree.

Doesn't make it right just because they can "get away" with doing it.
Rather reprehensible, IMO.


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stiphy
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September 9, 2014 6:54 pm  

Legal does not always equate to morally acceptable. It's all a matter of timing.

Yes a business is in business to make money. But isn't it better for all, if not just the reputation of the VI, that we encourage more socially responsible companies. Thoughts for those in power to consider and to vote fairly, but with conscience.

Right now STX needs any business it can get. These guys have been here for years, are not "hiding out" the way the article makes it appear, and employ a lot of people. They generally run a very good business for their employees with white collar jobs that are not easy to find right now in St. Croix. There has been a lot of money brought to the STX economy as well as charitable donations given by these companies and the island would be worse with out them. Love or hate their industry, their presence here has been a positive thing for our very troubled economy.

I'd love it if we could get Twitter to relocate an office to Christiansted, or get Elon Musk to build his electric car battery plant at Alcoa. Until that happens I'm glad someone is here providing jobs to college educated people that generate revenue for the GVI instead of draw from it. Like I tell my kids, you get what you get and you won't get upset 🙂

Sean


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Beeski
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September 9, 2014 7:23 pm  

Interesting article on the positive value of payroll loan operations to Underbanked areas / people.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/business-july-dec13-cashonly_12-15/


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aussie
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September 10, 2014 4:22 pm  

Hmmm...interesting...

Yet, if the article is accurate, "...They had built a network of payday-lending websites, using corporations set up in Belize and the Virgin Islands that obscured their involvement and circumvented U.S. usury laws..."

Spin that for me please 🙂


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sunshinefun
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September 10, 2014 4:34 pm  

Can I set up a Pay Day loan company here in the VI?

Sounds like easy pickins.


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IslandHops
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September 10, 2014 5:04 pm  

Ursury laws are there for a reason - to protect people who are bad at math.


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RevFD
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September 10, 2014 6:22 pm  

La cosa nostra also lends money at ridiculous rates, provides jobs to the locals, and make charitable contributions... and oh yeah, holds prominent positions in the community. Legal or not it's a nasty and immoral business any way you look at it.

I also fail to see what white collar opportunities these thugs actually created. Do you really need a college degree to sit in a call center and collect personal information from your victims?


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Alana33
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September 10, 2014 8:08 pm  

Amen to that observation!


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sunshinefun
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September 10, 2014 9:57 pm  

So are pay day loans legal or illegal in the VI. I'd like to know so I can determine if I can set up a shop here.


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stiphy
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September 11, 2014 12:15 am  

La cosa nostra also lends money at ridiculous rates, provides jobs to the locals, and make charitable contributions... and oh yeah, holds prominent positions in the community. Legal or not it's a nasty and immoral business any way you look at it.

I also fail to see what white collar opportunities these thugs actually created. Do you really need a college degree to sit in a call center and collect personal information from your victims?

The mob also kills people, extorts money for protection and forces people to do business with them whether they want to or not. That is the problem with the mob. And that is why we don't want to hand this industry (along with booze and gambling) back to a resurgent mob.

These guys offer a product that people are free to use or not based on their own needs, thoughts, and desires. They employ high level mathmaticians and statisticians to figure out how to do it profitably just like any other financial business. They employ marketing people to figure out how to get people to know about thier products. All of this right here on St. Croix.

It is very easy to lose a lot of money giving payday loans as without a great degree of computer modeling you can end up with over 50% of your money being stolen by people who never pay a dime back. It is a very risky business. Before you make a knee jerk reaction on a busness that is conducted between 2 people voluntarily without any coecion I would just ask that you actually know something about the business. Clearly this is a business people don't understand, don't want to understand and just want to ban even if it solves nothing for those they want to help in the end.

Sean


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