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Crime in Our Community

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Linda J
(@Linda_J)
Expert

I'm sorry, but I do not agree that federal intervention would be a good thiing. Anyone who thinks the USVI is close to anarchy doesn't understand what anarchy is, IMO. It seems to me that most people want limited government except when THEY think the government should intervene. Sometimes intervention is necessary and warranted, I would point to the take over of public housing as an example, because there is federal $$ involved. But for the federal government to take over an entire territorial (or state) government should be an action the US avoids like the plague. I truly think such a take over would do more harm than good.

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Posted : October 4, 2009 9:18 am
Nikkilove
(@Nikkilove)
Active Member

Are the public housing communities on the island bad?

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Posted : October 4, 2009 12:26 pm
Michaelds9
(@Michaelds9)
Advanced Member

An object at motion will stay at motion until acted on by another force.

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Posted : October 4, 2009 12:57 pm
Linda J
(@Linda_J)
Expert

They were poorly managed and poorly maintained - a condition not unique to the USVI. The feds took over control a couple of years ago.

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Posted : October 4, 2009 1:09 pm
Lizard
(@Lizard)
Trusted Member

Michael,
You double tongue devil, I understood exactly what your statement said, and that is scary!

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Posted : October 4, 2009 1:37 pm
rotorhead
(@rotorhead)
Trusted Member

STX.
Got a call from a friend about 1:00 today. They were out at Pt Udall and their car was broken into. They parked about 30 yards before the loop and walked the loop. They were gone for 5 minutes. They saw no other cars arrive. When they returned to the car it had been broken into and cameras, cellphones and wallets were gone. They think that the criminal must have been hiding in the bush below the road.

They called the police and me. The police arrived in 10 minutes. (That's right 10 minutes) I arrived in the helo in 20 minutes and we searched the area. No Joy. Be careful out there. Leave no valuables in your car!

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Posted : October 5, 2009 1:26 am
JohnOTD
(@JohnOTD)
Advanced Member

Stiphy,

I think you misunderstand anarchism. The word anarchy comes from the Greek "an" (without) "archons" (rulers). Essentially, there is no person or body of peoples who assert their rights (by force) above the rights of others. Traditional anarchy (and anarcho-capitalism) are based on the non-aggression axiom (also a tenet of libertarianism) basically saying that no person shall initiate or threaten violence against the person or legitimately owned property of another. I too am a libertarian; my views have been heavily influenced by Murray Rothbard, Lysander Spooner and Frank Chodorov. Check them out for some great reads.

In response to those who were discussing the origin and unalienability (or inalienability) of rights, my position is as follows. Rights belong to us simply as a product of us being human (or if you prefer, were endowed to us by our Creator). That does not mean that these rights cannot be violated. While we still retain these rights, we may be prevented from them. While it would be morally 'right' to exercise our rights in all places on the globe, it may be legally 'wrong' in some; however, that does NOT mean our right(s) have disappeared. The rights spelled out in the Bill of Rights, however, are simply examples of our rights than the actual rights themselves. A perfect example is the second amendment. While it is our right as human beings to keep and bear arms, if you go deeper, the actual right is to defend yourself and your property from those who would violate them or from governments; but I repeat myself.

Governments always have and always will increase their power at the expense of the people. It is up to the people to limit government to its necessary role of protecting the rights of individuals and no more.

Government is merely the highest (read: strongest) power over a given territory. If in the USVI the authorities serve the criminals/thugs, then the true government (power) lies in the hands of the thugs.

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Posted : October 5, 2009 4:05 am
divinggirl
(@divinggirl)
Trusted Member

When at Point Udall, I always keep valuables with me and leave the car windows open. I have done this since about 7 years ago when i saw two young guys peek over the wall as we drove up. They kept "peeking" at us and I told everyone to carry their stuff. I have heard about a few people having items stolen from their cars up there. I'm sure the criminals watch people drive up and walk away from the car then climb over the wall, steal stuff and climb back over the wall while the victims haven't got a clue until they get back to the car.

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Posted : October 5, 2009 12:51 pm
stiphy
(@stiphy)
Trusted Member

Stiphy,

I think you misunderstand anarchism. The word anarchy comes from the Greek "an" (without) "archons" (rulers). Essentially, there is no person or body of peoples who assert their rights (by force) above the rights of others. Traditional anarchy (and anarcho-capitalism) are based on the non-aggression axiom (also a tenet of libertarianism) basically saying that no person shall initiate or threaten violence against the person or legitimately owned property of another. I too am a libertarian; my views have been heavily influenced by Murray Rothbard, Lysander Spooner and Frank Chodorov. Check them out for some great reads.

I will grant that my use of the word anarchy isn't very clear as the word anarchy has been used in so many ways its virtually meaningless. The definition of anarchy I was trying to use in my post is "Absence of government; a state of lawlessness due to the absence or inefficiency of the supreme power; political disorder." (quoting wikipedia). Doesn't sound too far off to me, at least in certain regards, to the state of things in the VI.

It's nice to hear there are others on here who read Rothbard et al, I'm very familiar with those authors and their works!

If in the USVI the authorities serve the criminals/thugs, then the true government (power) lies in the hands of the thugs.

Excellent way to put it, and I think this is why I and several others have said that some federal intervention is probably necessary. I may be biased as I grew up in Washington D.C. which was served VERY nicely by the federal government stepping in when the crackhead Mayor Barry was re-elected in 1994. What happened to DC could happen here, except the Federal government really doesn't care that much about the VI as they don't have to live here.

Sean

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Posted : October 5, 2009 1:57 pm
Nikkilove
(@Nikkilove)
Active Member

You guys are scaring me. The more I read the posts, I am like what the hell is going on in the island. Is the government that corrupt there? OMG it can't be that bad.

How do the locals relate to outsiders? Are they friendly?

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Posted : October 5, 2009 5:34 pm
mminstx
(@mminstx)
Advanced Member

STX.
Got a call from a friend about 1:00 today. They were out at Pt Udall and their car was broken into. They parked about 30 yards before the loop and walked the loop. They were gone for 5 minutes. They saw no other cars arrive. When they returned to the car it had been broken into and cameras, cellphones and wallets were gone. They think that the criminal must have been hiding in the bush below the road.

They called the police and me. The police arrived in 10 minutes. (That's right 10 minutes) I arrived in the helo in 20 minutes and we searched the area. No Joy. Be careful out there. Leave no valuables in your car!

I am sorry this happened to them, it is unfortunate, but why would anyone go anywhere and leave their camera, cellphone and WALLET in the car?? Not just in the islands, but anywhere?? Anyone coming here, to live or visit: just don't leave your common sense at the airport because the beach looks pretty! And you are a very nice friend to spend the time and gas to look for whomever did this, but I don't know what they were thinking.

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Posted : October 5, 2009 8:00 pm
rotorhead
(@rotorhead)
Trusted Member

These friends have lived full time on STX for 8 years. They let their guard down. They were showing guests around who had just arrived the day before. If you know Pt Udall you know how isolated it is. They could see the car the whole time and could see the road leading to Pt Udall. They assumed that they would see anyone approaching.

In this case the thief must have been hiding in the bush down the slope from the car and snuck up to the car, broke in with a crowbar, grabbed a few things and scrambled back into the bush. When they returned to the car they found the missing items. Most belonged to their guests, first time STX visitors. They then had to leave and drive back to the Yacht Club before the cellphone that they had would work. They were gone for 20 minutes. The thief probably made his getaway during this time.

Everyone should be very careful at all times. My friends were only away from the car for 5 minutes and could see the car the whole time.

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Posted : October 5, 2009 8:49 pm
antiqueone
(@antiqueone)
Advanced Member

Actually, it sounds like point Udall would be a good place for a sting....

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Posted : October 5, 2009 8:54 pm
JohnOTD
(@JohnOTD)
Advanced Member

You guys are scaring me. The more I read the posts, I am like what the hell is going on in the island. Is the government that corrupt there? OMG it can't be that bad.

How do the locals relate to outsiders? Are they friendly?

Nikki,

Don't let it get to you. I have not lived in the islands yet, only visited. I have, however, lived in some "dangerous" cities. I think the reason there is so much talk about it here is because of the size of the population there. It just hits closer to home when it's people you know. The best way to avoid confrontation is to be aware and use common sense. I have used that 'method' in Miami, New Orleans (post K) and Memphis and have never had an issue. The only time I was ever "attacked" was in Phoenix. I was walking through a neighborhood I didn't know just after dark. I wasn't maintaining an awareness of my surroundings and was robbed. The key for anywhere, including the islands, is to avoid areas you are unfamiliar with (especially after dark) and to maintain an awareness of what is going on around you.

The only reason I propose firearm carry is for those situations where even being aware is not enough (which are quite rare). Had I been carrying in the Phoenix situation, I still would have handed over my cash because my life wasn't explicitly threatened and it was my fault for not being aware. There was a firearm involved, but it was not pointed at me, only put in the open.

In response to your second question, the times I have visited, the locals have been very friendly. They seemed to enjoy explaining the local culture and were pretty good at making me feel comfortable. Basically, I didn't feel like they looked at me as just another tourist, which is the attitude you tend to get in tourist destinations stateside.

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Posted : October 5, 2009 8:58 pm
SkysTheLimit
(@SkysTheLimit)
Trusted Member

Sting indeed!! I like the idea of an exploding camera or purse.

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Posted : October 5, 2009 10:30 pm
aussie
(@aussie)
Trusted Member

Exploding dye packs. Just tell the police that they're looking for a coupla smurfs 😀

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Posted : October 6, 2009 12:08 am
Michaelds9
(@Michaelds9)
Advanced Member

.............still would have handed over my cash because my life wasn't explicitly threatened and it was my fault for not being aware.

Say WHAT?

It's your fault some low life is out robbing?

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Posted : October 6, 2009 12:15 am
Linda J
(@Linda_J)
Expert

Nikki, yes I am a local and am very friendly,

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Posted : October 6, 2009 2:02 am
stiphy
(@stiphy)
Trusted Member

You guys are scaring me. The more I read the posts, I am like what the hell is going on in the island. Is the government that corrupt there? OMG it can't be that bad.

How do the locals relate to outsiders? Are they friendly?

I don't mean to scare you, its not like we are living in fear all the time (or at least I'm not). Crime here is worse than other places statstically but you are still not likely to be a victim of crime on a constant basis. I've been here 6 years and have not been a victim of anything major.

That said, if you are a victim the response you get may not resemble what you'd expect in the United States. Or it may, I've had a good encounter with VIPD and have also had ridiculous encounters with them.

To put things more softly, a lot of people know each other on an island and it would be naive to think that at times the police and crooks don't know each other. This isn't something unique to the VI, but the size and confinement of an island probably amplify the nepotistic tendancies towards justice. At times this gets out of control and it seems to me that some outside blood would do a lot to cut down on this sort of corruption.

As for locals, there are friendly people and not so friendly people just like anywhere else...ignore the unfriendly ones and you'll find some amazing individuals here.

Sean

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Posted : October 6, 2009 1:53 pm
JohnOTD
(@JohnOTD)
Advanced Member

.............still would have handed over my cash because my life wasn't explicitly threatened and it was my fault for not being aware.

Say WHAT?

It's your fault some low life is out robbing?

Hahaha. I was wondering if someone would respond this way. That's not what I meant. Some low life is out robbing because ____(they need the money; daddy didn't love them; it's a thrill; etc.) My point is that it was my fault that I got robbed because I wasn't paying attention to where I was or what was going on around me.

Thanks for having me clarify.

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Posted : October 6, 2009 8:17 pm
Michaelds9
(@Michaelds9)
Advanced Member

My point is that it was my fault that I got robbed because I wasn't paying attention to where I was or what was going on around me.

Sorry I still don't get it. How is minding your own biz an invitation to be robbed?

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Posted : October 7, 2009 2:59 am
Linda J
(@Linda_J)
Expert

I believe what John is saying is that we all have a responsibility to protect ourselves. For me that means being aware of where I am and who is around me. Very extreme example (didn't really happen) - I'm eating at the Brew Pub and leave my purse on my chair at my empty table while I go to the bathroom. The person who grabs my purse is the criminal, but I'm still kicking myself for being so stupid. I think that's what he means.

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Posted : October 7, 2009 10:42 am
vacationstx
(@vacationstx)
Advanced Member

Sting indeed!! I like the idea of an exploding camera or purse.

I second this idea.

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Posted : October 7, 2009 12:29 pm
DixieChick
(@DixieChick)
Trusted Member

maybe security cameras set up on point udall. at least for awhile. if cameras were activated even for awhile then it may deter robbers to another area or hey.....they could actually get a job.

at least the guys at point udall didnt have guns. could have been alot worse. i have not been there in years and now scared to go. we use to take guests up there alot but now am afraid to go there.

point udall was a safer place to go before they paved the road.

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Posted : October 7, 2009 2:48 pm
aussie
(@aussie)
Trusted Member

How about some help for the west end as well? Hamm's Bay (by the Coast Guard station) is a similar area - one way in - one way out. Easy to set up a sting there.

I understand that at least one jeep has been stolen from Point Udall. Leaving your car empty and the windows down just sets you up for another world of hurting unless, of course, you leave a cookie on the seat.

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Posted : October 7, 2009 2:57 pm
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