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CruzanCowgirl
(@CruzanCowgirl)
New Member

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Posted : January 22, 2014 1:46 pm
JulieKay
(@JulieKay)
Trusted Member

This is slander. Take it to private message, both of you. I have reported the posts. You're so far on the attack no one is paying attention to whatever your goal is, we're all hoping you'll just cut it out.

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Posted : January 22, 2014 2:04 pm
LiquidFluoride
(@LiquidFluoride)
Trusted Member

I was messaging shebia privately, she choose to continue in public.

since this information is known by the Dept of Agriculture and DPNR and VIPD isn't it basically public knowledge?

Horses deserve attention too, they can live up to 35+ years when taken care of properly; the cat and dog issues on this island have multiple organizations looking out for them, it seems we are the only one doing the same focused on horses.

Luckily there's a few programs (currently underused) that can be leveraged for improvement, the Horse track offers some educational programs and we hope to start working with them soon to expand that.

it really seems like things can change for the better with just a bit of effort here, but the transgressions need to be pointed out and attention needs to be placed where change is needed, otherwise change doesn't happen.

Along with our planned "halters for horses" campaign we might include "hoses for horses" if you take a section of hose and run your rope through it (say the 10-15 feet of rope nearest the horse (connected to a halter of course 😛 )) it really cuts down heavily on the amount of rope burn (a very common issue here).

hoses are cheap, halters are cheap, there's no reason to not at least use one of them on an animal that can live to be 35+, start small and work your way up; that's the best method right?

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Posted : January 22, 2014 2:22 pm
Alana33
(@alana33)
Expert

My 2 cents piece - Many of our island's animals suffer because people turn a blind eye, say or do nothing.

Additionally, it is extremely difficult to get our local law enforcement agencies of any type to act upon these animal cruelty/negligence cases.

Whatever became of the case of that poor horse that was drowned on STX while beach-goers looked on because the people that were forcing the horse into the water didn't not have proper training or education. What happened with that? Any charges of cruelty or neglect?

If this guy has had 4 horses die due to strangulation when something as simple as using a rope harness or changing a couple methods of his behavior towards the animals in his "care" that could have prevented these "accidents," and has not done so, then something is very wrong. And it is simply very wrong to continue to convey the dangerous (to the animals) ways and methods of treating them. More "accidents" just waiting to happen and it is not right.

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Posted : January 22, 2014 4:32 pm
OldTart
(@the-oldtart)
Expert

Hope the hand-made rope halter pictured on Avalon is a little more snug under the face than it appears to be in the photo. A hoof can get tangled up in that with quite disastrous results.

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Posted : January 22, 2014 7:57 pm
LiquidFluoride
(@LiquidFluoride)
Trusted Member

Hope the hand-made rope halter pictured on Avalon is a little more snug under the face than it appears to be in the photo. A hoof can get tangled up in that with quite disastrous results.

the rope halter was thrown away, & a rope around the neck was used; he strangled to death shortly after that picture 🙁

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Posted : January 22, 2014 7:59 pm
Islander
(@the-islander)
Member Moderator

Re: Horse Advocacy Efforts

Educating the public about animal abuse and programs to help them is important. That message is lost when there is a lack of civility and comments become character attacks. Messages were consquently removed.

Consider posting about the general condition of horse treatment in the Virgin Islands, there may be articles from the newspaper or at the Humane Society of the Virgin Isalnds website that can be highlighted. When referencing personal experiences with horse abuse - outlining the situation, death and cause; and leaving out the character attacks is the recommendable course.

There are some helpful resources for arguementive writing and writing for advocacy online. Here are a couple:
Writing Tips: Fact, Opinion, Beliefs: http://writing.colostate.edu/guides/teaching/co300man/pop12d.cfm
ASPCA - Advocacy Center, Tips for Writing Letters: http://www.aspca.org/fight-cruelty/advocacy-center/guide-writing-advocacy-letters.

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Posted : January 22, 2014 9:20 pm
Alana33
(@alana33)
Expert

I am disappointed Islander chose to remove the pictures/links of the horses, especially the one that had the strangulation "accident."

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Posted : January 22, 2014 9:47 pm
cdsp
 cdsp
(@cdsp)
Advanced Member

I am going to go out on a limb here and suggest you all start using PMs... Please?

Seriously. I can see a lawsuit over this. I'm not comfortable reading anyone dragged through the mud like what you two are doing, especially since he's not here to defend himself. This is not the purpose of this board.

Many thank yous JulieKay!!!

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Posted : January 23, 2014 12:52 am
OldTart
(@the-oldtart)
Expert

Hope the hand-made rope halter pictured on Avalon is a little more snug under the face than it appears to be in the photo. A hoof can get tangled up in that with quite disastrous results.

the rope halter was thrown away, & a rope around the neck was used; he strangled to death shortly after that picture 🙁

I understand that - my point was merely that the halter itself (as it appeared in the photo) was very unsafe.

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Posted : January 23, 2014 1:17 am
CruzanCowgirl
(@CruzanCowgirl)
New Member

Getting sued for telling the truth would be pretty sad! I guess I may as well be speaking to the VI govt at this point...guess I am not surprised. I'll remember to tell our local thugs to smile and hand out free soup if they want to get away with doing things wrong.

OldTart
Hope the hand-made rope halter pictured on Avalon is a little more snug under the face than it appears to be in the photo. A hoof can get tangled up in that with quite disastrous results.

I agree with you Old Tart, I do not see rope halters as being a good solution either, I would have preferred to use regular nylon halters, but the person did not want to spend the money buying them. I did rustle a few up for some of the horses. Here is a pic of a couple more horses. The one is wearing a nylon halter I found and the other is wearing one I made. They were removed after I left. The other picture shows someones horse tied by its neck. Here are 3 ways of tying a horse...I personally would not choose any of them for longer than short term grazing situations. Ideally, horses should be in fenced pastures. Tying has never been viewed as a method of long term containment. But I guess there is no more need to try to educate here as it seems that this is not a very receptive audience and I have very little energy to waste on this. The horses and the majority of our community appreciates what I do and that is what matters the most.

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Posted : January 23, 2014 1:38 am
LiquidFluoride
(@LiquidFluoride)
Trusted Member

Message Removed.

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Posted : January 23, 2014 12:33 pm
JulieKay
(@JulieKay)
Trusted Member

Good grief, cut it out with the personal accusations. I don't know the man involved at all, but anyone should not be attacked in this forum like this and should have the opportunity to present THEIR side of the facts, and to at least defend themselves.

Again I applaud your efforts for horse advocacy, but you cannot single out and speculate and slander a man in this forum. It is not what this forum is for, and Islander has already told you to stop once.

A piece of advice - as an advocate myself, you do not draw people to your cause by tearing down and attacking those you don't agree with. You advocate for the change by focusing on the change and you speak about what is wrong in general terms, not by calling out specific people. Why? Because when you attack people, you turn off at least half of the general public who will now tune you out for your personal attacks - people don't want you to do it to them either. It is not the way to get people to listen to you, especially the people you most want to listen.

If you have people interested in discussing what this man has done, take it to PM.

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Posted : January 23, 2014 12:58 pm
Alana33
(@alana33)
Expert

What I do not understand (maybe I do since this is the VI, after all and animal life is disposable) is why this man can have so many "accidents" with his horses and absolutely no government agency or Humane Organization is stepping in to investigate and put a stop to the negligence and continuing deaths of his horses or banning him from keeping any dues to past losses and behaviors?
It sucks.

I agree with LF on this one:
Too many people turn a blind eye and do not wish to be involved to make a positive change yet are the first to bitch about things that they feel need changes.

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Posted : January 23, 2014 1:33 pm
JulieKay
(@JulieKay)
Trusted Member

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Posted : January 23, 2014 1:41 pm
LiquidFluoride
(@LiquidFluoride)
Trusted Member

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Posted : January 23, 2014 2:58 pm
JulieKay
(@JulieKay)
Trusted Member

Message Removed

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Posted : January 23, 2014 3:15 pm
LiquidFluoride
(@LiquidFluoride)
Trusted Member

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Posted : January 23, 2014 3:29 pm
Alana33
(@alana33)
Expert

Amen.

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Posted : January 23, 2014 3:37 pm
Alana33
(@alana33)
Expert

LF - One last thing: This information about the "accidental" deaths of the numerous horses above mentioned is greatly disturbing to me, not to mention the fact that it appears to be an ongoing situation. I was curious if the Ag. Vet., Bethany Bradford has been made aware of this situation and can offer advice/guidance to get other Gov. depts., agencies or organizations involved to protect any other horses from any additional "accidental" deaths regarding this particular situation. If you need her number, I am happy to provide it. Just PM me.

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Posted : January 23, 2014 8:05 pm
Islander
(@the-islander)
Member Moderator

I was curious if the Ag. Vet., Bethany Bradford has been made aware of this situation and can offer advice/guidance.

Bethany Bradford, DVM
Director, Veterinary Services
Virgin Islands Department of Agriculture
http://www.vifresh.com/vitnary.php
Tel: 340-778-0998 ext 241

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Posted : January 23, 2014 8:27 pm
LiquidFluoride
(@LiquidFluoride)
Trusted Member

LF - One last thing: This information about the "accidental" deaths of the numerous horses above mentioned is greatly disturbing to me, not to mention the fact that it appears to be an ongoing situation. I was curious if the Ag. Vet., Bethany Bradford has been made aware of this situation and can offer advice/guidance to get other Gov. depts., agencies or organizations involved to protect any other horses from any additional "accidental" deaths regarding this particular situation. If you need her number, I am happy to provide it. Just PM me.

we have had many discussions with her and DPNR; we spend a lot of time in her office and work with her on horse care education (she's not really a large animal vet, but does a great job). She gave us information sheets on how to properly tie horses, how to use hoses so the horses avoid rope burns and that was about the extent of her powers.

We brought several of these hand outs to Mr O'dea and his workers as they were well prepared and educational. Unfortunately change has to come from with in, and a piece of paper wasn't enough to motivate this.

right now there's just no recourse; so I figured as this subject came up it would be a great way to apply some social pressure in an attempt to correct the situation.

Of course, what really happened was 19 readers (or people connected to those who read ) from this page yesterday went and "liked" his facebook page (a significant spike that can be correlated to us bringing to light his actions). This, of course, is very disheartening, though highly interesting behavior (the statistics that Facebook will give you are pretty amazing).

I don't care how much I like anyone or think they are a great person, if they are doing something of this caliber I will at the very least voice my concern and try to help as best I can correct the action (all of this was tried with this individual).

DPNR was more interested in telling us about rider injuries and the way he handled them, I personally wasn't so interested in that part but the information was pertinent to the over all situation I suppose.

nether the VIPD, DPNR nor Dpt of Agriculture perused any follow on actions, the VI does have laws that cover animal cruelty and abuse, but they are about the same as the laws that require you to get a permit to cut your lawn (if it's native grass) or the laws that require you to get a permit for your grass if it's not native, I think this board had a discussion on how they do not allow you to compost yard clippings or some other such silly thing, but even that was not enforced beyond someone "talking" to the individual involved.

So, I see absolutely no help from the "authorities" in this situation, I do see a great opportunity for us to act as a community and help our selves (something that my Libertarian mind set finds very appealing). We don't need mommies and daddies to tell us how to behave, we can police our selves through actions like public attention on undesirable activities, social pressure etc... These things were how small communities functioned pre-industrial revolution and worked for thousands of years.

I'm not sure how long this message will be here, I have messaged "Islander" about the rules here and how I am not violating them, perhaps he has another set of rules that I need to read. no reply yet.

Ahh well, this is a pretty small forum, perhaps I'll start one of these as well with less random, unexplained censorship, Everything can be improved with the right attitude and diligence!

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Posted : January 23, 2014 8:58 pm
Alana33
(@alana33)
Expert

Yes. I do understand as NOTHING came of the "accidental drowning" of the horse at the beach in STX. It is disheartening when the majority of people and our ENFORCEMENT agencies do NOTHING! Business as usual.
How about contacting some Senators? (not Bert Bryan tho- he has his own issues and thankfully no longer a Senator!) Public pressure helps as well as reaching out to some of the other local horse rescue agencies, whether here or stateside. Good Luck!

Additionally, you are not from here so your opinion and your ways may not be readily accepted since there are so many ignorant, ingrained, local attitudes towards the treatment of our island animals!

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Posted : January 23, 2014 9:39 pm
LiquidFluoride
(@LiquidFluoride)
Trusted Member

Ignorant is another good word.
look at the roots of the word it seems to imply that something is known, yet ignored. this certainly is the case with some of the people; however I hope (and feel) that the majority of the issue is one of nescience ( a new word I just learned recently).

Definition of NESCIENCE

: lack of knowledge or awareness

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nescience

Better ways just are not known.

so education, both by example and by standard teaching methods is going to be a prominent thrust; I think all animal treatment is tied together, as we bring up one they will all be reflected.

We are in contact with various groups from the states (both for AWC and for our own horse rescue efforts); slow and steady seems to be the best approach to improvement and that's the motto we are working under.

I will look into contacting senators, we are already discussing forming committees for AWC on various topics, I'm sure this one could be included in our approach to legislative officials.

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Posted : January 23, 2014 9:59 pm
Alana33
(@alana33)
Expert

How about ignored.

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Posted : January 24, 2014 12:33 am
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