Letter: Cruzan Rum,...
 

Letter: Cruzan Rum, slavery, and corporate disclosure  

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GoodToGo
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November 12, 2009 11:48 am  

Good in theory DUN but in practice there's no easy way to connect slaves captured and sold hundreds of years ago to the unrelated tribal chiefs who profited from the practice. There were however sporadic records kept by slave traders, auction houses, etc. of slaves brought to America.

I think you assertion that white people didn't start slavery but stopped it is a bit off. In relation to America it certainly can't be said that black Americans started slavery here but it can be said that Africans were guilty of it in Africa. The idea that somehow whites ended slavery is a bit odd given slavery is alive and well in America (mostly sexual and forced sweatshop labor) and many parts of Asia, Middle East, and Africa.

Good to go,
your statement of "Also, in order for Africans to seek reparations from those in Africa who may have sold them, they would need to have some clue as to where they came from, what their family name was, etc. all of which was taken away by slave owners."
Your statement seems to leave out the fact that the tribal chiefs took them from their homes in the first place, & even reading on your post absolves them from branding or otherwise giving a mention to where they came from(wouldn`t they be the best to know since they stole & sold them in the first place???)

Richard Hufstadter wrote in America at 1750: “Africa had a system or systems of slavery long before white men came to the Guinea Coast, and had regularly enslaved war captives and criminals … Other persons sold themselves or their families for food during famine, or were kidnapped by native gangs. Many native kings ran profitable slave businesses, and responded eagerly to opportunities for greater profits. The slave trade became a recognized and entirely legal form of business in Africa.”

In different parts of Africa slavery became a major source of income for the authorities. The river ports became an efficient way to move the slaves from the main-land to the New World. Whites and Blacks cooperated in this nefarious business of selling human beings.

Also, white people didn`t START slavery, but ENDED it!


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terry
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November 12, 2009 2:26 pm  

If it is "alive and well in America" it is illegal. There are lots of things that go on in America that are illegal but that are trying to be stopped. You make it sound like America still condones it.
Do you condone it when you buy a shirt made in Asia? I guess we all do in some way by those actions. Maybe we should pay reparations to all Asians that work for less money that we do.


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antiqueone
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November 12, 2009 2:36 pm  

Illegal aliens are the modern American Slaves, too. They can be underpaid, poorly housed, and have no rights whatsoever. But instead of sending them back to get in line like everyone else, the US lets them stay 'cause slave labor is cheap.


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Trade
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November 12, 2009 5:50 pm  

But they're volunteering for it. There's a difference & no, I don't condone hiring illegal aliens & they're criminals as well by the nature of not being here legally.

~Trade~


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GoodToGo
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November 12, 2009 9:22 pm  

OK, I found some numbers I suspect are more trustworthy than the 200 million number I saw a few days ago. The U.S. State Department estimates 600,000 - 800,000 people per year are enslaved and brought across borders around the world: http://www.acf.hhs.gov/trafficking/about/fact_human.html

What I don't know is if they have an estimate of the number of people enslaved within their own borders or what the total outstanding population of slaves may be.


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DUN
 DUN
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November 13, 2009 10:50 pm  

I feel the taxpayers are the slaves, we have to pay for food/housing/children that aren`t ours, nor should they be our problem!
I have little problem with those who cannot work(and, you better PROVE IT), my problem is with those who are unwilling.

At the same time, many of us taxpayers don`t have their own insurance, pay out of own pockets, & watch others get free medical, free food , housing, etc.
We really love the cars they drive, & the jewelry as well, (must be nice).
I can(almost) hear Robbin Leach speaking...
This welfare mother has 12 children, by as many fathers!
For each baby there is a government check!
There is also those free food checks (WIC), as well as food stamps!
And, the 12 boyfriends each get a piece, (of her), & are gangsters who help w/ car payments, & drugs for their lady's.

So, between her vertical life making baby"s, & her horizontal one doing drugs, she doesn`t have to do another dam thing,
(In Robin leach accent) must be niece Aieesha!!!

Unfortunately, this has a negative effect on the productive, law abiding taxpayers but, what is more important?


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Ms Information
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November 14, 2009 12:27 am  

Wow DUN it sounds like you didn't get inoculated for the dreaded lou dobbs disease. Actually the true cost of illegal immigrants is very small when all income and outgo is totaled. The problem is that it goes to different parts of the government bureaucracy. Like taxes are with held by the fed but welfare is paid by the state. They earn lots of money and pay taxes that are never refunded (like in the vi..lol). They save employers money by working cheap and they don't use even close to their share of social money.

Yes there are glaring examples of welfare abuse, but it is just a drop compared to the abuse by legal citizens. Immigrant bashing has been a part of America since very early on. We have had Mexican deportations, Asian exclusion acts and Muslim persecution.
It might irritate us that people don't immigrate legally, but it really is not hurting us.


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Trade
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November 14, 2009 12:45 am  

California is almost broke because of the problems caused by illegals.

~Trade~


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antiqueone
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November 14, 2009 12:58 am  

Can you think of any other country in the world that thinks it's is ok for just anyone to sneak across the border and expect free social services of ANY kind?:? why is the US such a wuss? There are plenty of Honorable people who would like to come here, by what right do these interlopers think they should have any rights at all? They should all be deported as soon as they are discovered and allowed to come back when they can do so legally.


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divinggirl
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November 14, 2009 9:25 am  

Actually the true cost of illegal immigrants is very small when all income and outgo is totaled

Please share the source for the information that the cost is "very small". I have read many studies which state just the opposite of this. Including one from the CEO of a hospital in one city that showed outstanding balances of $14 million dollars in one year for services provided to ILLEGAL immigrants - money that hospital will never see. Then we wonder why health care costs are skyrocketing?
Or perhaps is just your definition of small.

"their share of social money"

ILLEGAL immigrants should not have a "share". They are here illegally - why is that so hard to understand? I once asked an illegal immigrant why he didn't come here legally (this was in MN - he was applying for a job and was surprised when I asked if he had a green card) . He responded that he had to sneak over because of his criminal record. I declined to hire him but I'm so glad my tax dollars went to providing him immediate free health care at any hospital!


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pt
 pt
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November 14, 2009 10:50 am  

Hi,
Somebody told me once people come here for our garbage. That sure is what alot of them get yet they are still glad to do it. Perhaps we should be grateful America is still such a desirable place.

Thanks,
PT


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chefnoah
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November 14, 2009 12:07 pm  

I love Mexicans. In Denver, I learned that few white boys right out of culinary school had a fraction of the work ethic I could get from a crew of Mexicans. They were paid well, lived in cramped quarters, worked 80 hours/week between 2 jobs, and sent ALL of their money home to their families. It's no surprise that when word reaches to their uncle, cousin, brother etc they all want in on the action, legal or not.

Noah
Signature user since right now


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stiphy
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November 14, 2009 1:09 pm  

by what right do these interlopers think they should have any rights at all? They should all be deported as soon as they are discovered and allowed to come back when they can do so legally.

By the Declaration of Independence....men are ENDOWED BY THEIR CREATOR WITH CERTAIN INALIENABLE RIGHTS! According to the document that chartered our country all men, regardless of where they are born have the rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. These rights come by birth, and are not given to them by country. Under this paradigm, it seems to me that the concept of "immigrant" shouldn't even exist.

Now I get the practical point that we can't have people coming here and draining our "social services." This is why I argue that a government who has been chartered to "protect freedom" cannot and should not provide social services. Protecting freedom and providing social services are goals that conflict with each other...the immigration issue is a great example of this.

And to those who say "just come in legally" when my grandfather came he signed a piece of paper and he was in. That isn't how it works now making this a hypocritical argument.

Sean


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Lizard
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November 14, 2009 2:40 pm  

Somebody must have swallowed the worm in the bottle this morning.


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aschultz
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November 14, 2009 9:35 pm  

The worst thing they can do for the economy is send the money they earn home. That just hurts us and helps where ever the money goes.


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terry
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November 15, 2009 12:20 am  

That is one of the good things about AZ, we have Sheriff Joe who is trying to get rid of them.


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dougtamjj
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November 15, 2009 1:23 am  

I just read this thread. I have been skipping it because I hate political discussions, discussions about race, reparations, who owes who what and all that BS. I told my kids if you had been born the year that I was and suddenly fast forwarded to your age now you would be scared S hitless. Our loss of freedoms and how our government is run today is unbelievable. You have all been brainwashed by school and society and we are all slaves to our government who are supposed to serve the people. I think I will just opp out. You know like those little notes you get home from your children's schools. Oh, we are going to teach your children this but if you object you can opp out and we will send little Johnny to the library and all the other children will laugh at him because he has psycho or religious parents who disagree with what is best for him dictated by our government. Really? Are you all that stupid? Hail Obama! Our new Messiah. Did you know that now he is called the Pacific president? Guess there is some Asian blood in him. I guess momma got around. Oh s hit, I typed Obama on my computer, guess the government will be monitoring me now. Jeez, they kinda screwed up with the Fort Hood killer. Had all the info on him but you know we have to be politically correct.

Ok guys, just joking. I love our government and Obama. I am practicing for a SNL comedy skit. Obama, upps, I mean God Bless America!!

Just kidding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm never going to make it as a comedian, am I?


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divinggirl
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November 15, 2009 1:25 am  

Sheriff Joe for President!! I love that guy!
My favorite Joe story is when he shut off cable TV to the prison, was taken to court and was told he had to provide cable for the inmates. The inmates were all so excited, until Joe turned cable back on (with only the weather channel and Disney) and told them he had to provide cable but the channel choice was his! Love that guy!


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Ms Information
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November 15, 2009 1:56 am  

I am shocked by the apparent anger, racism,ignorance about illegal immigrants that i read from some of the people on this forum. I guess I didn't know it was such a hot button issue. I can't imagine why? There are many things on my agenda that are more important. While I do not condone illegal immigration, I understand it's cause and find many other problems more pressing.

Even legal immigration and relocation might be a cause for anger too. We often question why the long term citizens of the VI show their anger and impatience with newcomers. Something to think about.


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terry
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November 15, 2009 2:24 am  

I think the things that upset me the most with the illegals in AZ is the crime. Since the economy has declined, you would think that crime would have gone up, but here the crime has dropped about the same amount that the illegals have gone back south.
The other thing, they come here and expect us to change our ways and language. Why should I have to press one for English?

I can understand their desire to come here for a better life, but they should learn our language and fit in. In our area it is almost impossible to get a job at a 7-11 or a Checker Auto unless you can speak Spanish.

I feel that if you move somewhere you should try to fit in.


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roadrunner
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November 15, 2009 6:34 am  

It drives me crazy when non-English speakers look at me with disgust when I try to help them in English. Even just saying, "Sorry, I don't speak English" in their native language would be better. I would never move to another country and expect everyone to speak my language.

I went to a taco stand here in Phoenix tonight, and I ordered in my American-accented Spanish and was embarrassed. And then I remembered what country I'm in.


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Trade
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November 15, 2009 10:26 am  

Maybe I'm old-fashioned but the ILLEGAL part of illegal aliens bothers me. They're starting off as criminals. I hardly call that racist, angry or ignorant but then I don't get paid under the table, I pay every penny in taxes on what I do owe, and paid 3 times what I should have at the hospital because of illegals getting treated for free as well as those others who have no insurance. Heck, maybe I'm just stupid.

Most all who immigrated here legally had to start at the bottom. The Irish were maids, the Jews & others worked in sweatshops in New York or were peddlers. My niece's husband's grandfather was an Italian who pushed a cart through the streets sharpening knives & put his 3 children through college doing it without any handouts. My father was born in 1907 & his family rode out the dust bowl.

Immigration may have been easier then but life sure was not & there is a limit to this country's resources & the expectations on what the goverment (that's us, folks) should provide is becoming ridiculous.

~Trade~


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Irijah
(@Irijah)
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November 15, 2009 10:36 am  

greetings and good morning...

to be correct, when neil said:

"250,000 Confederate dead, 360,000 Union dead to free 4 million slaves."

....slaves were only freed in the confederate states, not the other states...


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Lizard
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November 15, 2009 10:52 am  

Freedom? Jim Crow Laws lasted till 1965!


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antiqueone
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November 15, 2009 10:54 am  

....so I can have a slave if I live in Massachusetts????


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