Letter: Cruzan Rum,...
 

Letter: Cruzan Rum, slavery, and corporate disclosure  

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Neil
 Neil
(@Neil)
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Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 988
November 15, 2009 11:04 am  

greetings and good morning...

to be correct, when neil said:

"250,000 Confederate dead, 360,000 Union dead to free 4 million slaves."

....slaves were only freed in the confederate states, not the other states...

Sorry Sister....you need to go back to school.

The last northern state to abolish slavery was NJ in 1804.

The Emmancipation freed slaves in the confederacy.

The 13th Amendment took the issue away from the states by abolishing slavery in January 1865.


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Bombi
(@Bombi)
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Posts: 2104
November 15, 2009 12:59 pm  

I never dreamed that this post would morf into a discussion about illegals, but it has. My experience with illegals was with residential construction in So. Maine and in the Dominican Republic.
When working in DR building factories I worked with Dominicans who I grew to call friends. They were , from my perspective, very positive and hard working people. We also had Haitians working with us and I couldn't believe how badly they were treated. This treatment was based on their color which is darker than the locals. I was curious and asked why and the answer is that basically they wrestling jobs by working for less. I explained that I didn't share their perspective and was raised to believe that if people were good then they were good, regardless. After our talk it seemed better but I'm sure it was just for me.
In Maine I had the experience of working with some Somali men. They were very interested in becoming citizens and part of the culture. They too were very hard workers and honest. I enjoyed their company. Some spoke English very well and were well educated.
So I have a hard time understanding the animosity. These people just want a better life and we created the problem by not securing our boarders. The DR/ Hati boarder is better protected than most in the states. Yes I agree we should close the gates for a time and get a handle of what we are facing. I keep going back to the scenario that The US is a nation of immigrants. My ancestors emigrated from Canada 4 generations ago, were welcomed, assimilated and prospered.
So I believe we should focus on securing the boarders, deport illegals of questionable character and assimilate as many as practical.


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Trade
(@Trade)
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November 15, 2009 1:02 pm  

Illegal is still illegal. I know most are hard workers. That isn't in dispute. I've had several LEGAL green card workers who also came here for a better life & eventually became citizens.


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stiphy
(@stiphy)
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Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 956
November 16, 2009 1:21 pm  

Illegal is still illegal. I know most are hard workers. That isn't in dispute. I've had several LEGAL green card workers who also came here for a better life & eventually became citizens.

That's fine but do you believe it should be easier to become "legal" then? Maybe we go back to the way things were in the early 20th centry when my grandfather came in? If gaining legal status was as easy as providing an address of someone you will be staying with as it was then I would be in agreement. But the fact of the matter is that one may die starving in his/her home country before the so-called "land of the free" let them in "legally."

I find anyone who's not Native American crowing on about "illegals" in light of today's immigration laws to be a tad hypocritical.

Sean


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terry
(@terry)
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Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 2552
November 16, 2009 1:30 pm  

Good point Stimpy.
We should all learn that lesson.
If the Indians, anyone born in the US is a native American in my book, had had better immigration laws, they would still have their land.
It's time we have better immigration laws.

If you had a large boat and came upon a ship wreck, you could pick up survivors. But at some point you can only pick up so many before they will swamp the boat.


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Trade
(@Trade)
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November 16, 2009 1:33 pm  

"I find anyone who's not Native American crowing on about "illegals" in light of today's immigration laws to be a tad hypocritical."

You're calling me hypocritical? I think not. Plus I'm almost 1/4 Cherokee. The times were different then. The governemt (us) at that time didn't "take care of" everyone to the extent they do now. Hospitals weren't required to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for medical care. If you came here, you made your own way. Now the rest of us have to pay for these things one way or the other.

Why should it become easier? Plenty of not very well-educated seem to have been perfectly able to get a green card & become citizens. Try seeing how easy it is to move any other first world country. I'm a firm believer in the slippery slope theory that was pretty well proven when Giuliani was mayor of NYC. He cleaned it up by enforcing vigorously the minor laws like jumping subway turnstiles. ALL crime took a dramatic drop. If someone comes here illegally they've already broken a big law. And the people who hired them have done the same. Call me any names you want. You'll notice I didn't call you any.


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stiphy
(@stiphy)
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Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 956
November 16, 2009 1:51 pm  

Trade,

First let me apologize...I wasn't trying to be personal or call you names even though it came off that way. I enjoy a good discussion and don't want to ruin it with name calling, that wasn't my intent.

I do think the argument though is a bit hypocritcal for many to make though. I don't know your situation, when your parents came to America etc. so let me frame it in terms of myself. If the immigration laws were what they are today when my family members came to the US I doubt I'd be here. I can't make the argument in good concious that its ok that I'm here because of one set of rules, then when the rules change, get upset at others for not following the new more strigent rules that I know my ancestor's wouldn't have been able to meet.

As a practical matter I agree with you, we are where we are in regards to "social services", and we cannot just allow anyone in the country to bankrupt those services. I just think that this issue provides an excellent argument against what our government has become vs what it was chartered to be. When we can no longer afford to acknowedge the basic human rights of human beings to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness by excluding them from participating in this wonderful country I think it's logical to question the value of providing social services.

I personally want to live in a country where every man is given nothing by the government other than the opportunity to provide for him/herself, regardless of birth/ancestry etc. What he/she made with that opportunity was up to him/her, and he would own his own success or take responsibility for his own failures. I feel that this was the American ideal, as enshrined on our Constitution, an ideal that we have clearly lost in the 230 or so years since our founding. To bring this on topic, this is why the idea of reparations is so repugnant to me as well!

Sean


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Trade
(@Trade)
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Joined: 13 years ago
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November 16, 2009 1:56 pm  

Apology accepted. 🙂


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