Limetree Bay agreem...
 

Limetree Bay agreement is hardly 'manna from heaven'  

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speee1dy
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ironheadUSVI
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September 4, 2018 12:05 pm  

We really don’t belong in this ecosystem. We’re the only animal to blatantly destroy the very thing that gives us life.

Not quite.

https://open.uct.ac.za/bitstream/item/17514/%20Midgley_Article_2005.pdf?sequence=1


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Fishbait
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September 4, 2018 4:00 pm  

So I've been schooling myself a bit about the world of oil refining and crude supply. It's a pretty complicated supply chain. Apparently Limetree is supposed to supply lower sulfur fuels which the World Maritime Org has agreed to move to in 2020.

The crude supplier for Limetree, BP, made a similar deal to supply crude with a refinery in Canada that "went sour" a couple of years ago. Apparently it's not always a lasting love relationship between the crude supplier and the refiner.

Apologies if this old news IS old news for some people on here, but I found it interesting and hadn't heard of this previous BP agreement.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-oil-trading-lawsuit-idUSKCN11763W


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ironheadUSVI
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September 4, 2018 7:25 pm  

Apparently it's not always a lasting love relationship between the crude supplier and the refiner.

No, it isn't. And part of the reason for the closing of Hovensa was the fuel supply and the cost from PDVSA.


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AandA2VI
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September 5, 2018 5:22 am  

I try to do good things. My number one contribution to this gorgeous planet is that I choose not to reproduce which reduces my impact to the max, and the impact is forever. I believe that not reproducing is probably the most ecological decision that one human can make. I have only a SHORT time here and in the span of the planet I don’t even count. I’m always puzzled by why humans think that they are such a big deal lol. I do think we’re just animals, Some less evolved than others lol. We are just a link on the food chain, nothing but carbon and can be extinguished in a second. We like to praise ourselves for our incredible technology yet all it would take is one huge rock to spin out of its orbit and wipe us all out. It’s a scary reality but it’s also very freeing as well. When I’m gone, I’m gone. Don’t even need to take up ground space, just toss my corpse in the ocean let me feed a shark or two. I guess that’s weird but what will I care? Haha.

While I’m here, I work hard at being a good human, albeit a loudly opinionated one 😉 I do clean up the island daily, usually in the water while I work but I am forever picking up garbage. I help grow, clean and hopefully soon replant corals. I live pretty simply and while I can not, not have a phone and computer or buy food to eat. I do limit my waste to one bag of trash a month, we are really conscious of what we waste. I have a pretty strict no single use plastic in our house, as frustrating as it is when I go grocery shopping I refuse to buy any produce this wrapped in plastic like our grocery stores like to do. Sadly some items can’t be avoided but they always end up as Tupperware, we often play guess the contents of cottage cheese containers. I keep bacon in a pickle jar haha. Always take our own cups when we leave the house, metal straws in both cars and never get to go food with plastic stuff. I never spray outside my home with pesticides, use home made laundry detergent (or nothing). I stay on top of my landlords and make sure that our septic tanks are in good working order. I do grow some of our food and share that with wildlife (unwillingly). Without senepole in STT I really am off red meat also which is tough but I do know how bad it is for the planet. We do eat free range chicken but I should just go vegan. SO HARD, I do love food! Spearfish and lobster although we go easy on the lobster since their numbers are in such decline. Only eat fish at reef sustainable restaurants and usually get it from local line fishermen at the dock. We do tiny things like bamboo toothbrushes and bars of shampoo but I still have to use bottle conditioner, looking into home made though. I do travel and I do use modern amenities. I try to do my best, I’m not totally granola but would like to be 🙂 it’s not easy. Clearly I’m not going to sit in a cave somewhere and die. I’m going to do the best that I can in the flash of time that I’m here for. I answer to no one other than myself on how much is enough but I do try to hold myself to pretty high standards.

I know that can do more and I try every day to reduce my carbon footprint. Now back on STT trying to get involved more with island programs. Would like to start UVI next semester for my masters too and hopefully do something meaningful with that, in regards to marine and environmental science. I would LOVE nothing more than to build and eco friendly home and go totally off grid with a zero emissions car. Someday maybe but sadly (and part of the problem) is you have to have $$$ for that. One can dream.

Trust me I wish I didn’t see and feel the pain of our planet every day. It’s so sad what we’re doing but I do often wonder how some people don’t see it at all.

Yes I am a realist and I absolutely don’t see what’s wrong with just stating facts of what’s happening right now. If you are denying the fact that we are killing this planet then your eyes are clearly not open. I shouldn’t say killing this planet because I guarantee you this planet will be here long after humans are gone just like it was here long before us. Maybe humans will get a mulligan... maybe not. I don’t think we deserve it.

Sorry all this is kinda u related to the OP but If I had to put it in a quote... it’d be from fight club:
.
.
.
You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake. You're the same decaying organic matter as everything else.

*** The views and opinions expressed in my posts are soley those of A&A2VI and other like minded islanders. These views and opinions do not necessarily represent those of the majority or any/all contributors to this site. Have a GREAT DAY!


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islandjoan
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September 5, 2018 9:59 am  

(tu)(tu)(tu) AandA!!!!!


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singlefin
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September 5, 2018 9:13 pm  

I’ll guess I’d have to quote the 18th century English poet, Thomas Gray in response:

“Ignorance is Bliss”


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stxisbest
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September 5, 2018 10:32 pm  

George Carlin will set you straight. 😎


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dougtamjj
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September 6, 2018 1:52 am  

(tu)


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singlefin
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September 6, 2018 10:28 am  

George Carlin - genius


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Alana33
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September 6, 2018 12:09 pm  

Ugh!


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Gator's Mom
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September 6, 2018 3:52 pm  

Referencing Carlin's bike path commentary ….

As part of his campaign for election, the mayor of St. Petersburg FL promoted building beautiful bike paths while closing (without replacing) an aging sewage processing plant that the new downtown condo tower dwellers found offensive to their panoramic views.

As a direct result of choosing bike paths over infrastructure, 200 MILLION gallons of semi-processed sewage was dumped into Tampa Bay in 2015-16. Clean up so far has cost over $300 million.

He was a big proponent of recycling, too. Can't make this $h!+ up if you tried.

George Carlin will set you straight. 😎


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ironheadUSVI
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September 6, 2018 7:04 pm  

Referencing Carlin's bike path commentary ….

As part of his campaign for election, the mayor of St. Petersburg FL promoted building beautiful bike paths while closing (without replacing) an aging sewage processing plant that the new downtown condo tower dwellers found offensive to their panoramic views.

As a direct result of choosing bike paths over infrastructure, 200 MILLION gallons of semi-processed sewage was dumped into Tampa Bay in 2015-16. Clean up so far has cost over $300 million.

He was a big proponent of recycling, too. Can't make this $h!+ up if you tried.

George Carlin will set you straight. 😎

352,000 gallons spilled into the river during heavy rain dumped by Tropical Storm Colin in June 2016. (In August 2015, heavy rains likewise overwhelmed the system, popping manhole covers out of place around the city as rain surged through sewers.) To use the term 'dumped' is not accurate.


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Alana33
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September 8, 2018 5:12 pm  

Maybe we should learn from mistakes and stop creating and dumping so much waste and sewerage and have companies that discharge toxins and wastes into our waters have to pay for the clean ups instead of taxpayers?


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TN_Travelers
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September 8, 2018 5:41 pm  

That was why the EPA was created in 1970.

The initial legislation for air, water and hazardous waste was designed to put the cost of compliance on the generators and penalize those that polluted. The laws are still on the books but with the advent of PACs and Super PACs, our elected officials are not willing to have the laws enforced (or reven weaken them) for fear that industry will back an opposition candidate who will work in their favor. The public be damned or is too stupid to understand what is or has been done. “Promise of jobs” (that rarely materialize) wins over dealing with environmental issues that destroy the quality of life.

Funny thing is that it has been documented that companies that are environmentally responsible actually outperform their competitors financially. But it takes “real” leadership to change the “pollutions is cheaper” culture. And leadership is a sorely missing quality in today’s management or politicians.


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Alana33
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September 8, 2018 6:25 pm  

Not surprising, especially given the present administration.


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Alana33
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September 8, 2018 7:13 pm  

''We don't inherit the earth from our ancestors; we borrow it from our children."

"This advice prods us to consider the future, and not to focus on the present or on the past."

Let’s use an analogy and think of the earth as a house. If we are given a house to live in, we can use it as we please. Within its walls, we can live pretty much the way we want to. We can be as neat and tidy or as messy and sloppy as we tend to be. All we have to do is to please ourselves. Now, if we know that we will have to pass this house on to someone else down the line, then we should be more careful about how we treat it. It will have to be livable for others, once we leave. The implication is that we will take better care of the place, and we will think and act more deliberately when we consider the future and the folks who will come after us. We don’t want to leave a mess with huge challenges for other people to have to deal with and clean up after we’re gone. By doing the best job possible with our home, our place, our earth, we are showing respect both to it and to its future residents. We are being altruistic: showing unselfish concern for the welfare of others. We must be mere stewards of the land and its resources, not users and consumers of everything that happens to be on it. You probably wouldn’t like it if you bought a bottled beverage and discovered that someone had already drunk more than half of its contents, would you?

This is a wise proverb and one that is very important. They key words here are not the difference between the words, "ancestors" and "children," but the difference between the words, "inherit" and "borrow." The point is that when it comes to the earth, no one owns it. This this sense, we do not "inherit." We are simply, "borrowing."

When we borrow something, then we need to take care of it. We cannot do anything that we want, because we do not own it. We can even say that we are entrusted with some for a time being and we need to give it back at certain point. This is a good mentality to have when it comes to the earth and something that fits into the green movement. We only have one earth and we need to take better care of it for our children and our grand children.

You decide:

For yourselves, for your family's children and great, great grandchildren and on into a future that you either decide to have clean water, air, soil that produces food without toxins and oxygen producing trees, oceans that are pollution free with wildlife whether above or below that aren't on the brink of extinction.

What's your plan for the future of the ONLY planet that we have to live upon?


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ms411
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September 8, 2018 7:44 pm  

Education is key and the key to learning anything is repetition.

I have breakfast meetings at Tickles STT at least once a week. I take my aluminum cans to the recycle bins in front of still closed Gourmet Gallery. Not one person in the group has followed my lead but not sure if they buy beverages in aluminum cans.

If I know I'm going to order iced tea, I usually take my insulated container for them to fill. I try to order without straw. The others see me with my reusable straws but they haven't brought their own reusable straws.

I use bar soap so as not to use shower gel that comes in plastic bottle. I offered to buy lovely bar soap for the group and they all said no they use gel.

People need to hear it over and over to reduce waste. We need to encourage our political candidates to make it a priority.

I think Alana recently said the squeaking wheel gets the grease. More of us need to start squeaking if we want to reduce waste. There are so many issues that need addressing. Hard to pick priorities.


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Alana33
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September 8, 2018 8:52 pm  

Do you ever go to the beaches?
I grew up here and have seen profound changes
How many times are your STX beaches labeled as unsafe to swim due to ENTEROCCI BACTERIA?
No Sargassum?
No degraded reef systems?
Do you live upwind or downwind?

The point is that you can't continue to degrade the environment and not have consequences
Where do you get your drinking water from?

Yes, I do go to the beaches. And fish off the south shore. I still can't find the black beaches he is lying about.

Sorry Ironhead,
Missed your comment.
Maybe he was speaking of the black tar like substances that would invade the sand on beaches.
Yes, even on STT.

Both ground water issues on STX and STX have still to be dealt with after decades.

I'm appalled that VI Government and DPNR allowed a pipeline to laid to allow offshore loading for larger tankers, decimate an established reef system and supposedly relocate corals that they will never restablish.

Most people come to the VI to enjoy the beauty not a refinery.

What's it going to take from a major storm breaking up the underwater pipeline?

Have you ever done any research on the amount of multitude on pipeline leaks happening daily?

Lets see:
Ground water, sea, air and soil contamination that takes decades and millions of $$$$$$$$ plus didn't the oil refinery workers primarily from the states, left in mass when refinery closed and left their pet python/boas behind that weren't legally imported.

What was the name of the people and company that was planning on the KING Grass?

How about the WTE plant that was proposed?

We in STT have successfully over the years stopped many projects that have been detrimental to our environment.

Unfortunately, some we've lost.
There doesn't seem to be the same cohesion in STX in protecting the environment.


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Exit Zero
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September 8, 2018 9:29 pm  

I liked the company that was going to use STX to launch rockets!!


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Alana33
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September 8, 2018 9:37 pm  

Education is key and the key to learning anything is repetition.

I have breakfast meetings at Tickles STT at least once a week. I take my aluminum cans to the recycle bins in front of still closed Gourmet Gallery. Not one person in the group has followed my lead but not sure if they buy beverages in aluminum cans.

If I know I'm going to order iced tea, I usually take my insulated container for them to fill. I try to order without straw. The others see me with my reusable straws but they haven't brought their own reusable straws.

I use bar soap so as not to use shower gel that comes in plastic bottle. I offered to buy lovely bar soap for the group and they all said no they use gel.

People need to hear it over and over to reduce waste. We need to encourage our political candidates to make it a priority.

I think Alana recently said the squeaking wheel gets the grease. More of us need to start squeaking if we want to reduce waste. There are so many issues that need addressing. Hard to pick priorities.

I believe that the priorities should be that honesty, integrity, ethical standards, truth to oneself and the ability to acknowledge if you're wrong, if someone corrects you, apologize for your wrongdoing, and get it right as best you can.

But do not in any way, shape or form allow yourselves to be taken advantage of.

Speak up and Speak out!

This should include voting


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dougtamjj
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September 8, 2018 11:44 pm  

Do you ever go to the beaches?
I grew up here and have seen profound changes
How many times are your STX beaches labeled as unsafe to swim due to ENTEROCCI BACTERIA?
No Sargassum?
No degraded reef systems?
Do you live upwind or downwind?

The point is that you can't continue to degrade the environment and not have consequences
Where do you get your drinking water from?

Yes, I do go to the beaches. And fish off the south shore. I still can't find the black beaches he is lying about.

Sorry Ironhead,
Missed your comment.
Maybe he was speaking of the black tar like substances that would invade the sand on beaches.
Yes, even on STT.

Both ground water issues on STX and STX have still to be dealt with after decades.

I'm appalled that VI Government and DPNR allowed a pipeline to laid to allow offshore loading for larger tankers, decimate an established reef system and supposedly relocate corals that they will never restablish.

Most people come to the VI to enjoy the beauty not a refinery.

What's it going to take from a major storm breaking up the underwater pipeline?

Have you ever done any research on the amount of multitude on pipeline leaks happening daily?

Lets see:
Ground water, sea, air and soil contamination that takes decades and millions of $$$$$$$$ plus didn't the oil refinery workers primarily from the states, left in mass when refinery closed and left their pet python/boas behind that weren't legally imported.

What was the name of the people and company that was planning on the KING Grass?

How about the WTE plant that was proposed?

"We in STT have successfully over the years stopped many projects that have been detrimental to our environment.

Unfortunately, some we've lost.
There doesn't seem to be the same cohesion in STX in protecting the environment."

Alana, why do you always bash St. Croix? Did you ever live here or have a bad experience with Crucians? I don't get it. The people here are wonderful. So many people work hard here to keep our island clean, save stray animals, protect the reefs.... It's not perfect but it is beautiful as are the people. Your words are very insulting and rude.

Tammy


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Alana33
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September 9, 2018 12:18 am  

I'm not bashing STX.
I'm stating that y'all need to figure out what you want If you've decided that this is your home and you're going to do your darnedest to protect it.


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dougtamjj
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September 9, 2018 1:05 am  

I'm not bashing STX.
I'm stating that y'all need to figure out what you want If you've decided that this is your home and you're going to do your darnedest to protect it.

No, you are bashing. The people of St. Croix do our darnedest to protect it. When you compare STX and STT to each other and how much better STT is about making decisions protecting their island, you are suggesting that you are somehow better. We all have the same governor and same decision makers. Never mind. I don't even know why I am posting. I think you just irritated me tonight with your constant superior attitude. Peace. Have a good night.

Tammy


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Scubadoo
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September 9, 2018 1:40 am  

Let’s use an analogy and think of the earth as a house. If we are given a house to live in, we can use it as we please.

Yeah, but we're not owners, just renters. We trash it and don't have to take care of it, the landlord takes care of it. Hmmmm, who is that landlord anyway?


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