Limetree Bay agreem...
 

Limetree Bay agreement is hardly 'manna from heaven'  

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Alana33
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August 27, 2018 3:08 pm  

Op Ed from DN:
August 25, 2018

Politicians say that we are at a crossroads, facing economic hardship. But we are in a political year and promises are a comfort to a fool. The late, great Bob Marley once said, “Never trust a politician to grant you a favor, they will always want to control you forever.”

Politicians have looked upon the agreement between Limetree Bay Terminals and the Virgin Islands government as manna from heaven. However, when you read the document word for word, page by page, and do the math, it does not add up to manna from heaven.

Believe me, from the negotiation table of the government of the Virgin Islands and Limetree Bay Terminals, we got the falling crumbs of manna from heaven instead of a fair share whereby both parties benefit for the betterment of the people of the Virgin Islands. A dog is better off than we are, as a people under this agreement.

More than 50 years ago, two industrial giants, Harvey Aluminum plant and Hess Oil Refinery, established themselves on the south shore of St. Croix. In the 1960s, the industrial revolution took place in the Virgin Islands with the phasing out of the sugarcane industry on St. Croix.

The Krause Lagoon, the largest wetland in the Virgin Islands, was destroyed when lawmakers decided to vote in favor of developing the south shore of St. Croix as an industrial complex. Issues that we face today, such as jobs for locals, were the same issues 50 years ago. Leo Harvey promised to build an aluminum plant and dredge the south shore lagoon of St. Croix if the Virgin Islands government would give him 750 acres and award large tax subsidies.

Harvey also promised the aluminum plant development would create hundreds of jobs for local people. From the beginning of this deal, the community was locked out. The deal was kept quiet, according to the late Frits E. Lawaetz, who was a senator at that time. Public hearings were eventually held that would not allow the community to ask questions about the deal. It was later learned that the public hearing was a joke because the Unity majority in the Senate at that time and the governor already signed the deal in a secret session on Feb. 20, 1962.

To make a long political story short, senators were given the agreement to vote up or down with no changes allowed. Hundreds of people were imported to work at the aluminum plant. Harvey claimed local people were unskilled. For years, our government fought in court for the aluminum plant company to clean up the environment.

Meanwhile, hundreds of local people got sick, and some died, blaming the company. The mountain of red dust from the aluminum plant landed on rooftops of houses for decades, impacting the quality of life for residents downwind from the plant. When Hess Oil Refinery arrived on St. Croix in the middle of the 1960s, you would think our government would do a better job negotiating a good deal for the people of these islands.

Unlike the aluminum plant, Hess Oil Refinery built a training school, but few locals graduated. As a result, few locals entered the workforce of the oil refinery. Folks from other Caribbean islands who had the experience and skills with refineries got the jobs. Other workers were brought in from the U.S. mainland to make up the difference.

As Virgin Islanders, we must admit that the standard of living in the Virgin Islands had increased with the industrial development on the south shore of St. Croix.

However, we have paid a great price with the impact of the environment and our health. The first agreement with Leon Hess, and others in between including the present agreement with Limetree Bay Terminals and ArcLight, were not in the best interest of the people of these islands. The many tax exemptions the company received, and the other agreements in the proposal all favored the company. Beside all the benefit the company is getting from this government, the issue I believe is the impacts on the marine and terrestrial environments and on human health. You can’t put a value on human life.

For more than 50 years since the industrial complex came to exist on St. Croix, we don’t have a cancer registry in the Virgin Islands. Hundreds of residents have died from cancer. Besides some of the food that we eat, our air is filled with environmental toxins. We breathe the air every day. Sometimes when you are diagnosed with cancer, you might hear the doctor say environmental toxin. In other words, you can get cancer from the air, water, soil, living near industrial areas, etc. Believe me, the impact of the oil refinery on the environment is far-reaching.

Along the south, west, and northwest shores of St. Croix, I have found on many occasions oil deposits that wash up on our beaches. For example, Manning’s Bay west of the refinery has sand that is black from pollution. The entire south shore of St. Croix is gone forever. It is the most polluted place in the Virgin Islands coastal waters. If senators had hiked with me on the south shore of St. Croix, they would have probably not voted for the agreement.

“From Lime Tree Bay to Sandy Point, once sparkling, translucent water now resembled watered down milk. Colloidal clays in suspension destroyed reefs and fish and made bathing repulsive. The entire estuarine faunal life wreathed in the throes of extirpation, if not already dead. Here and there, a few gray ghosts of once luxuriant mangrove cropped out of poisonous–looking mud. An entire living, breathing, self-perpetuating, interrelated cosmography now lay under roads, buildings, tanks, piers, pipes, and stacks belching offensive and deleterious effluvium into the summer sky,” wrote the late George A. Seaman.

With his last breath, Seaman said, “As I looked I felt a heavy depression in my heart. A great sadness filled me, as I realized it was too late in our blind, forward march to stay this hand of Esau. History and time have taught men nothing; he will still sell his birthright. So be it.”

I rest my case.

— Olasee Davis, St. Croix, is an ecologist at the University of the Virgin Islands. He is active in Virgin Islands historical, cultural and environmental preservation.


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ms411
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September 9, 2018 6:21 am  

Alana must have missed the post regarding recycling on STX. No recycling effort so far on STT.


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Gator's Mom
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September 9, 2018 12:34 pm  

STT and STJ have nearly 3 MILLION tourists each year tramping through their streets and beaches - defecating and urinating all the while stressing an already fragile sewage and septic system. They bring in and leave all sorts of trash behind. How is that protecting those two islands?

Cruise ships and their passengers in the volume STT sees each day are as nasty as any refinery.

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/the_green_lantern/2009/09/a_supposedly_green_thing_i_might_do_again.html

I'm not bashing STX.
I'm stating that y'all need to figure out what you want If you've decided that this is your home and you're going to do your darnedest to protect it.

No, you are bashing. The people of St. Croix do our darnedest to protect it. When you compare STX and STT to each other and how much better STT is about making decisions protecting their island, you are suggesting that you are somehow better. We all have the same governor and same decision makers. Never mind. I don't even know why I am posting. I think you just irritated me tonight with your constant superior attitude. Peace. Have a good night.

Tammy


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islandjoan
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September 9, 2018 12:57 pm  

It is so wonderful to see, and be a part of, the plastic recycling on STX!!!! So many wonderful volunteers and so much collected yesterday from the postings on the Facebook page!

Alana must have missed the post regarding recycling on STX. No recycling effort so far on STT.


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AandA2VI
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September 9, 2018 2:54 pm  

STT and STJ have nearly 3 MILLION tourists each year tramping through their streets and beaches - defecating and urinating all the while stressing an already fragile sewage and septic system. They bring in and leave all sorts of trash behind. How is that protecting those two islands?

Cruise ships and their passengers in the volume STT sees each day are as nasty as any refinery.

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/the_green_lantern/2009/09/a_supposedly_green_thing_i_might_do_again.html

I'm not bashing STX.
I'm stating that y'all need to figure out what you want If you've decided that this is your home and you're going to do your darnedest to protect it.

No, you are bashing. The people of St. Croix do our darnedest to protect it. When you compare STX and STT to each other and how much better STT is about making decisions protecting their island, you are suggesting that you are somehow better. We all have the same governor and same decision makers. Never mind. I don't even know why I am posting. I think you just irritated me tonight with your constant superior attitude. Peace. Have a good night.

Tammy

Hahahah deficating and urniating all over? Give me a BREAK. I understand you’re triggered but that was an ridiculous statement. You make it sound like ship tourists are savage animals. Let me tell you right now, there is one group of people that are littering and trashing the islands L.O.C.A.L.S.

Whether it be because they just don’t understand what happens to the trash after they throw it down or whether they just don’t care I can tell you right now tourist or not the main culprits.

I’m sure that they have some kind of impact but let’s not pretend that they’re literally running around throwing crap each other like wild animals.

Hell. even if they were literally crapping on the streets and crapping on the beaches and peeing all over the place and throwing garbage down it would still not be as much of a devastating ecological impact as what’s happend in the past with the refinery and even the rum “run off”.

I don’t mean to speak for her but I’m pretty sure what Alana means is that you guys are going to be within “blast range“ of the refinery so if things go bad you guys are the ones that are going to have to suffer the consequences so I think what she means is that you guys will have to decide if that something that you’re willing to do or not.

*** The views and opinions expressed in my posts are soley those of A&A2VI and other like minded islanders. These views and opinions do not necessarily represent those of the majority or any/all contributors to this site. Have a GREAT DAY!


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ms411
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September 9, 2018 3:22 pm  

The people of St Croix or the Virgin Islands don't get to decide. The politicians make the deals and decisions and we usually find out after the ink is dry.

Some people on this forum supported the refinery.

Cruise ships and their passengers do strain local resources, and some popular tourist destinations are considering or are limiting tourists. Venice is one example.

We need more tourists that are willing to spend money be they cruisers or land vacationers. Why have a tourist economy if the tourists aren't spending money locally?

AirBnB is a huge tourism game changer. Glad to see VI partnered with them. The properties are counted and help increase airlift. Just one of the benefits.


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Gator's Mom
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September 9, 2018 3:35 pm  

Every time a tourist flushes while on STT/STJ it stresses the sewage and septic system. STT has 100,000 citizens and 3 million tourists. With septic - particularly near the beaches - it leaches out and goes in the water rather quickly.

Think about each drink served to tourists with a plastic cup, straw and stir stick. Even if each STT islander had a metal straw and cup it would have little impact except making the user feel all warm and fuzzy.

Cruise and tourist industry pollution is easier to ignore than a smokestack I suppose - particularly if your livelihood is tourist dependent. Nonetheless, do the math.

And then there is the yachting business (pre-Irma), with each boat flushing directly into the ocean - into crowded anchorages. Holy moly - when I sailed two years ago I didn't get into the water on Tortola, STJ or JVD. Holding tanks - sure - I don't think so.

The cleanest place to live in the VI is east end STX. No obvious pollutants between the shore and Africa (Saharan dust is naturally occurring and part of the ecosystem). Upwind is best. Far (enough) from the madding crowd and the refinery. Lots of attorneys, too, to help keep the polluters (big new resorts) at bay. So far.

STT and STJ have nearly 3 MILLION tourists each year tramping through their streets and beaches - defecating and urinating all the while stressing an already fragile sewage and septic system. They bring in and leave all sorts of trash behind. How is that protecting those two islands?

Cruise ships and their passengers in the volume STT sees each day are as nasty as any refinery.

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/the_green_lantern/2009/09/a_supposedly_green_thing_i_might_do_again.html

I'm not bashing STX.
I'm stating that y'all need to figure out what you want If you've decided that this is your home and you're going to do your darnedest to protect it.

No, you are bashing. The people of St. Croix do our darnedest to protect it. When you compare STX and STT to each other and how much better STT is about making decisions protecting their island, you are suggesting that you are somehow better. We all have the same governor and same decision makers. Never mind. I don't even know why I am posting. I think you just irritated me tonight with your constant superior attitude. Peace. Have a good night.

Tammy

Hahahah deficating and urniating all over? Give me a BREAK. I understand you’re triggered but was an ridiculous statement. You make it sound like ship tourists are savage animals. Let me tell you right now there is one group of people that are littering and trash in the islands L.O.C.A.L.S.

Whether it be because they just don’t understand what happens to the trash after they throw it down or whether they just don’t care I can tell you right now tourist or not the main culprits.

I’m sure that they have some kind of impact but let’s not pretend that they’re literally running around throwing crap each other like wild animals.

Hell. even if they were literally crapping on the streets and crapping on the beaches and peeing all over the place and throwing garbage down it would still not be as much of a devastating ecological impact as what’s happend in the past with the refinery and even the rum “run off”.

I don’t mean to speak for her but I’m pretty sure what Alana means is that you guys are going to be within “blast range“ of the refinery so if things go bad you guys are the ones that are going to have to suffer the consequences so I think what she means is that you guys will have to decide if that something that you’re willing to do or not.


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singlefin
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September 10, 2018 2:25 am  

Love the use of “Blast Range”

Sounds like someone’s been watching too much CNN again.


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Alana33
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September 10, 2018 9:21 am  

It is so wonderful to see, and be a part of, the plastic recycling on STX!!!! So many wonderful volunteers and so much collected yesterday from the postings on the Facebook page!

Alana must have missed the post regarding recycling on STX. No recycling effort so far on STT.

I actually posted that link and started that thread on the STX Recycling efforts.


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Alana33
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September 10, 2018 9:27 am  

"I don’t mean to speak for her but I’m pretty sure what Alana means is that you guys are going to be within “blast range“ of the refinery so if things go bad you guys are the ones that are going to have to suffer the consequences so I think what she means is that you guys will have to decide if that something that you’re willing to do or not."

Exactly.
However, we will all share the consequences.


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janeinstx
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September 10, 2018 11:30 am  

Calculating the blast radius is a little more complex than looking at a map and saying oh gee oil refinery we are all going to die. I’ve seen the calculations. Clearly she has no idea what she’s talking about. You should stop helping her spread misinformation.


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SkysTheLimit
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September 10, 2018 12:09 pm  

Calculating the blast radius is a little more complex than looking at a map and saying oh gee oil refinery we are all going to die. I’ve seen the calculations. Clearly she has no idea what she’s talking about. You should stop helping her spread misinformation.

Yep!

Alan
St. Croix resident since 2000


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caribstx
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September 10, 2018 12:14 pm  

I like the refinery. The best thing that's happened to STX in years was Limetree.


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Gator's Mom
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September 10, 2018 12:41 pm  

Anyone who depends upon BIG tourism for a living is supported by the oil and gas industry to get the tourists to their destinations.

Boom!


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Alana33
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September 10, 2018 1:20 pm  

Don't believe tourists come to the islands to tour oil refineries but to enjoy the natural beauty on land and below our waters.
Boom!


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SkysTheLimit
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September 10, 2018 1:22 pm  

Don't believe tourists come to the islands to tour oil refineries but to enjoy the natural beauty on land and below our waters.
Boom!

Ships need fuel....

Alan
St. Croix resident since 2000


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Gator's Mom
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September 10, 2018 1:32 pm  

"One of the worst offenders are the supersize cruise ships that swarm localities, straining local services and sites and giving back little in return."

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/travel/intelligent-travel/2013/04/15/is-tourism-destroying-the-world/

The cruise industry is no less damaging to the VI environment than the oil refinery. It's just not as "in your face" as the behemoth sitting on STX's south shore.

Don't believe tourists come to the islands to tour oil refineries but to enjoy the natural beauty on land and below our waters.
Boom!

Ships need fuel....


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Alana33
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September 10, 2018 5:11 pm  

True but they don't necessarily have to refuel on STX.


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Alana33
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September 10, 2018 5:34 pm  

Senate approves Limetree Bay undersea pipeline

By BRIAN O’CONNOR Daily News Staff May 4, 2018

ST. THOMAS — At a sometimes-contentious, relatively short session Thursday, legislators approved an St. Croix oil pipeline, instituted emergency management for the hospitals, and the territory’s election laws.

Senators voted 10-4 with one absence — St. Croix Sen. Alicia Hansen did not attend the session — to approve a special Coastal Zone Management permit for the Limetree Bay Terminals on St. Croix. The permit will allow the company to construct roughly half a mile of undersea pipeline to allow some of the largest ships in the world to moor in the waters off St. Croix.

Minority senators Dwayne DeGraff, Janette Millin Young, Positive Nelson and Tregenza Roach voted against the bill, 32-0207.

In speeches before the bill’s passage, minority senators said they wanted more time to vet the proposal. The initial CZM proposal was heard Wednesday in a Committee of the Whole session, which meant each individual senator had approximately 10 minutes to ask questions, they said.

That wasn’t enough, Roach said.

“While we may believe that this may be in the economic interests of St. Croix to proceed, I believe that we should have had more time to digest this and the implications of it, and there was no need to rush it today,” he said.

Majority legislators were behaving poorly in the rush to pass the measure, said minority leader Nelson.

“You cannot see the monkey bottom unless it’s up the tree,” he said. “You all are up the tree. Show yourself.”

Majority senators said they had understood the construction of an off-shore single-point mooring system to be part of the original Limetree Bay Agreement approved in 2015. Minority senators should have done their homework, they said.

“Let’s cut the crap right now,” said Sen. Brian Smith. “Let’s just cut the crap about more time to vet this. Just give me a break. You don’t think the guys of St. Croix have suffered enough?”

Sen. Kurt Vialet pointed out that the total amount of questioning among 15 senators at the Committee of the Whole was 150 minutes.

“You already had two and a half years,” he said. “It is incumbent on each and every one of us to do our homework as the islands progress.”
************************************

Let's see, hmmm!
Dig thru reef, relocate sand, already endangered corals and sea life.
Lay pipe on seabed!

All it'll take is one spill.

I don't see you all, who wrongfully believe I'm bashing STX, complaining about the tourists that come to visit your island whether by air or sea?

I just think that the environment should be protected on ALL of our islands.
That's the main attraction, after all!


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ironheadUSVI
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September 10, 2018 6:33 pm  

I liked the company that was going to use STX to launch rockets!!

No, they were going to build the boosters here.
There was never any intention to launch rockets.


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ironheadUSVI
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September 10, 2018 6:35 pm  

Love the use of “Blast Range”

Sounds like someone’s been watching too much CNN again.

(tu) People that have no idea of how things really work...


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singlefin
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September 10, 2018 7:07 pm  

So just to get things straight, according to our usual discontented posters:

- We’re all just animals, several billion of which need to be removed immediately, and those who are left should choose to never reproduce. Human beings really don’t belong anywhere in this ecosystem.
- We need to stop all construction and live under shade trees.
- People are the cause of global warming, it never took place before humans walked on the planet.
- There are mysterious black beaches somewhere on STX, only visible to those who want to see them.
-“Island pride” does not exist anywhere in the USVI.
- The local government does not govern.
- Reality is “sad”
- People who don’t agree with the points of view of certain individuals posting here are either delusional optimists or deniers. (I guess im included in that group)
-There is no freedom, safety, confidence, or support in the USVI.
- Stop eating meat, but it’s ok to spearfish and pull lobster from our protected reefs.
- We all need to be altruistic. Working to better ones own life is folly.
- Don’t drink ground water, especially with a straw.
- We all need to be “squeaky wheels” for the environment to get the greese, but not the kind of greese made from any petroleum products that are made in a dirty refinery.
- Get out and vote, but only for who we tell you too.
- Cruzan’s have absolutely no environmental concerns whatsoever.
- Nobody thinks STT is better than STX.
- Tourists only go on cruises to empty their bowels and dump trash on tropical islands.
- Tourists should only step on a dock, hand us money, and then immediately leave.

And my favorite,
- The best place to live in the USVI is the east end of STX (which I’ll admit I am partial to) but only because attorneys live there (which I do not agree with). But living anywhere near the island of STX is completely foolhardy because the entire island is inside an imaginary “blast range”

I don’t think these are the things this “vimovingcenter” site was designed for.


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islandjoan
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Posts: 1723
September 10, 2018 7:20 pm  

singlefin, that post was pretty darned funny

My fave:
Tourists only go on cruises to empty their bowels and dump trash on tropical islands.
- Tourists should only step on a dock, hand us money, and then immediately leave.


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SkysTheLimit
(@SkysTheLimit)
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Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 1910
September 10, 2018 7:33 pm  

BOOM! Here ya have it! Too friggin funny!:@)

So just to get things straight, according to our usual discontented posters:

- We’re all just animals, several billion of which need to be removed immediately, and those who are left should choose to never reproduce. Human beings really don’t belong anywhere in this ecosystem.
- We need to stop all construction and live under shade trees.
- People are the cause of global warming, it never took place before humans walked on the planet.
- There are mysterious black beaches somewhere on STX, only visible to those who want to see them.
-“Island pride” does not exist anywhere in the USVI.
- The local government does not govern.
- Reality is “sad”
- People who don’t agree with the points of view of certain individuals posting here are either delusional optimists or deniers. (I guess im included in that group)
-There is no freedom, safety, confidence, or support in the USVI.
- Stop eating meat, but it’s ok to spearfish and pull lobster from our protected reefs.
- We all need to be altruistic. Working to better ones own life is folly.
- Don’t drink ground water, especially with a straw.
- We all need to be “squeaky wheels” for the environment to get the greese, but not the kind of greese made from any petroleum products that are made in a dirty refinery.
- Get out and vote, but only for who we tell you too.
- Cruzan’s have absolutely no environmental concerns whatsoever.
- Nobody thinks STT is better than STX.
- Tourists only go on cruises to empty their bowels and dump trash on tropical islands.
- Tourists should only step on a dock, hand us money, and then immediately leave.

And my favorite,
- The best place to live in the USVI is the east end of STX (which I’ll admit I am partial to) but only because attorneys live there (which I do not agree with). But living anywhere near the island of STX is completely foolhardy because the entire island is inside an imaginary “blast range”

I don’t think these are the things this “vimovingcenter” site was designed for.

Alan
St. Croix resident since 2000


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lescooper
(@lescooper)
Advanced Member
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Posts: 157
September 10, 2018 8:22 pm  

Singlefin....spot on post
The same gloom and doom posters consistently find nothing but negatives about almost every subject. They should just crawl back in their holes and go away.


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sttanon
(@sttanon)
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Posts: 323
September 10, 2018 8:46 pm  

Hahahah deficating and urniating all over? Give me a BREAK. I understand you’re triggered but that was an ridiculous statement. You make it sound like ship tourists are savage animals. Let me tell you right now, there is one group of people that are littering and trashing the islands L.O.C.A.L.S.

Well actually they do and it goes right into the ocean where if they are playing by the rules ships dump waste a minimum of 3 miles off shore or if they are lazy do it right in STT harbor as has happened in the past more than once. Then there is the bilge oil and fuel that also gets released into the ocean.... Try going downtown on a busy ship day and look at all the garbage that is all over the place because the passengers cant seem to be bothered using a garbage can. Look at Megans on a busy ship day or Coki for that matter when you could count locals on one or two hands and see how trashed they are at the end of the day. I lived down from E&M at one point and cant count the times that tourists would dump garbage NEXT TO a garbage can because it was such a strain to put trash where it belonged. Everytime I saw that I would help them with their garbage and dump in on the front seat of their rental, I figured it was theirs so why not. I am not saying that locals are innocent in this entirely but to let tourists off so lightly is laughable......


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