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Pool Coping

 
gonetropo
(@gonetropo)
Advanced Member

In 2009, we contracted with Taylor Studios on STX to have concrete pool coping bricks manufacturered for our newly refurbished pool. We used a referral from them for the installation and have sealed the coping throroughly with the product they specified since it was installed.

Last year, we noticed that several of the bullnose brick edges were disintegrating and the surface slaking into the pool. The problem has gotten worse and now nearly 50% of the bullnose coping are defective.

We have contacted them several times and and provided them with photos of the defective bullnose. They apparently are not willing to stand behind their products. They stated that it is "the environment" that has caused the problem!!

We have had concrete pool coping custom produced for us at a previous home and have had no issue with it since it's installation in 2005.

Can anyone recommend a reputable company on STX that can manufacture or install pool coping?

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Topic starter Posted : July 21, 2012 12:09 pm
vicanuck
(@vicanuck)
Expert

I have had pool coping installed around my pool about 5 years ago and I have seen no deterioration at all. I do know that my coping was sourced from the mainland by Bill Kartizek of AZ Property Mainentance but not sure where he may have gotten it.

Its a shame that Taylor Studios will not stand up for their product. And to say that it was environmental is complete BS and a cop out.

Was there no warrantee given at the time of purchase?

Perhaps small claims court?

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Posted : July 21, 2012 12:17 pm
OldTart
(@the-oldtart)
Expert

Was there no warrantee given at the time of purchase?

Perhaps small claims court?

I have the same questions. Look through your paperwork carefully as it's hard to imagine that something of this nature wouldn't be guaranteed for at least a few years. Before you go looking for another provider and spend more money, see what your options are with Taylor. Good luck!

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Posted : July 21, 2012 1:13 pm
gonetropo
(@gonetropo)
Advanced Member

As for a warranty, I don't believe one was offered nor requested. Who would think that concrete bricks would disintegrate in a couple of years especially after being sealed (2 coats of Waterborne sealer) every 6 months since installation!

Reputable contractors and suppliers stand behind their products. In this case, they are not and have placed the blame on environmental conditions! What environmental conditions would cause the bullnose bricks to crumble?
I agree completely with VICANUCK on this one. Total BS!

Small claims is a possibitly we have considered and may pursue but we would have preferred to agree to a solution with Taylor Studios.

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Topic starter Posted : July 21, 2012 2:04 pm
OldTart
(@the-oldtart)
Expert

As for a warranty, I don't believe one was offered nor requested.
Small claims is a possibitly we have considered and may pursue but we would have preferred to agree to a solution with Taylor Studios.

Again, check your contract. Even in small claims court you have to establish proof of your claim and if you weren't given a guarantee on either materials or workmanship then are going to have a hard time proving your case. I do have a couple of questions. You said, "We used a referral from them (Taylor) for the installation and have sealed the coping throroughly with the product they specified since it was installed." Has the installer made any comment? And did you do the sealing yourself? Maybe the sealant or the application of it was at fault?

Good luck!

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Posted : July 21, 2012 2:20 pm
gonetropo
(@gonetropo)
Advanced Member

We sealed the pool coping ourselves, using the instructions on the sealant purchased from Taylor Studios and Taylor Studios' recommendations to us regarding how often to seal the pool coping. We don't want to get into a discussion about lawsuits at this point, but simply would like to see if there are any options available to us when we replace the pool coping. We certainly would not replace it with another Taylor Studios product. How we handle the situations with the Taylors regarding their defective product is another issue. We appreciate the comments.

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Topic starter Posted : July 21, 2012 4:11 pm
blu4u
(@blu4u)
Trusted Member

several of the bullnose brick edges were disintegrating and the surface slaking into the pool. The problem has gotten worse and now nearly 50% of the bullnose coping are defective.

Enviromental? Total BS. A defective product and condesending 'tude to boot. Sounds like the bricks were not cured properly for the terminal application.. Photograph and video the crumbling bricks. Get three estimates for replacement. Find ALL your reciepts and canceld checks. Find wareenties for similar materials. At the very least Taylor should have advised you against that particular brick for your particular application. Did they? Doid the installer? Why did you orginaly choose that specific finish? Write it all down. Tell Taylor you will be filing a claim againt THiER insurace. Be ready to negoiate a prorated setlement prices. Is your pool salt or clohrine? Did you contact Taylor when you FIRST noticed the problem? In the end, you should be able to get replacement bricks at deep discounted wholesake price, possilby some of the demo and hauling covered. But after 5 years you'll end up eating the lion's share of the labor. You will not get a new pool deck/coping for free.

On the eviromental side...Yes many materials used in convetional construction do not hold up well in the tropics, escpecially sea front properties. Any Good GC should discloes warranties (especially if ocean front is excluded) when quoting prices, sometimes folks just want the cheepest,

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Posted : July 21, 2012 10:18 pm
vasecs
(@vasecs)
Advanced Member

We sealed the pool coping ourselves, using the instructions on the sealant purchased from Taylor Studios and Taylor Studios' recommendations to us regarding how often to seal the pool coping. We don't want to get into a discussion about lawsuits at this point, but simply would like to see if there are any options available to us when we replace the pool coping. We certainly would not replace it with another Taylor Studios product. How we handle the situations with the Taylors regarding their defective product is another issue. We appreciate the comments.

Reading these statements and much experience with concrete/water, it brings to light the fact there are several potential causes for the spalding/blistering in the coping;

Curing: Majority of all concrete/cement products are mixed with water at time of fabrication. Depending on the amount of water and time of cure affects the moisture content. You mention brick surfaces? Taylor is cement/concrete mixture and not "fired" brick?

Additives: Depending on "IF" an additive was used in the mix will affect curing periods and strength of mix. Some speed or retard curing.

Sealing: Was the product sealed prior to curing and was the product sealed on all surfaces, yes, even the unexposed sides. Should there be an unsealed surface and exposed to moisture penetration, concrete acts as a sponge and will continue to absorb moisture. In a pool environment, there is much exposure to continued moisture.

Sealer: Depending on the type of sealer used, some trap moisture and can blister in the drying or wicking of moisture. So if there is a surface absorbing moisture, it must release it. Drying is from the bottom up.

Environment: Yes, it does have an affect. Cement/Concrete products exposed to sun will continue to expand and contract during a 24 hour time period. Expansion and contraction is a cause for concern as it will break down sealers and open up areas for moisture to penetrate and the cycle continues.

General: In most cases, the buyer of the tile accepts responsibility when the product leaves the yard. It sounds as though when you touched it you owned it. There are so many loopholes here that you will not get the satisfaction you desire when finger pointing or in court. You accepted responsibility when you installed and sealed. A concrete expert could bury you with different disclosures. There is no "fail proof" product. I have only mentioned the obvious concerns and you should understand there are more causes than mentioned. This is a domino and I would spend my time and money resolving the problem mutually. It may be your actions that caused the problem!

Taylor: I have purchased products from the Taylors over the years and I have had them custom fabricate products for me. I have found them to be amenable and experienced in their product. This is a second generation manufacturer of the same product over the years.

Practical: You are fighting a losing battle trying to pin this solely on the Taylors. You do not know the cause......? Why blame the Taylors in a public forum when you have not verified the cause? The Taylor's are hard working, independent suppliers of a long standing building product here on STX. I might suggest you do your due diligence as to cause and then address accordingly.

I have no financial interest in Taylor Tile and do not know them personally.

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Posted : July 22, 2012 12:23 pm
TamiP
(@TamiP)
Advanced Member

In response to vasecs , ss I can't seem to figure out the quote function...operator error on my end.

Once again, let's blame the customer that got bad service! If the bullnose are eroding and I owned the company they had been ordered from, I would at the very least go over to try to ascertain what the problem was. Having the customer send pictures and try to figure out the problem via phone or internet just isn't reasonable. Customers are usually not experts on the items/services they purchase or they wouldn't need to purchase from a vendor.

If a company provides good service there is USUALLY a way to settle things to the liking of both parties. I don't think the company was being unfairly accused of anything. The OP was stating what happened and looking for alternative companies to do business with.

This is supposed to be the forum to go to for answers, not get a virtual spanking for stating a problem and asking for help finding alternatives.

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Posted : July 22, 2012 3:22 pm
gonetropo
(@gonetropo)
Advanced Member

The original question to the forum was: Can anyone recommend a reputable company on STX that can manufacture or install pool coping?

We will deal with Taylor Studios and their un-professional attitude and unwilliness to stand behind their DEFECTIVE products!

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Topic starter Posted : July 24, 2012 10:16 am
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