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Refinery Sold, DeJongh, G.O.A.T?

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CruzanIron
(@cruzaniron)
Expert

Here's a nice article in the Wall Street Journal. How come they don't seem concerned enough to speculate about the new owners or where the financing will come from?

http://online.wsj.com/articles/st-croix-moves-to-reopen-oil-refinery-1414537126

I read it this morning... IMHO, it is just a very generic article reporting on the basics...

Agreed. Thanks.

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Posted : October 30, 2014 8:34 pm
MissJustice
(@MissJustice)
Trusted Member

The article subtitle says the refinery opens to refine crude oil 'amid glut".

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Posted : October 31, 2014 9:43 am
Rowdy802
(@Rowdy802)
Trusted Member

Here's a nice article in the Wall Street Journal. How come they don't seem concerned enough to speculate about the new owners or where the financing will come from?

http://online.wsj.com/articles/st-croix-moves-to-reopen-oil-refinery-1414537126

I read it this morning... IMHO, it is just a very generic article reporting on the basics...

Agreed. Thanks.

There is, however, on little things that stands out in this article and it is the detail that neither Hess Oil and PDVSA say a thing, except for the "Hess says it is still negotiating the sale". I already checked all SEC fillings and news in my Scottrade account and none mention this "transaction". After all, they "purchased" the Hovensa operation and not the assets, meaning they haven't purchased the site. So, someone should say something somewhere. It is all, the government this, the government that, we all know the government is not the seller, obviously. How come no one mentions how much they paid for the Hovensa operation?

Too much lack of information on such a big deal. All we can do sit and wait.

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Posted : October 31, 2014 10:12 am
MissJustice
(@MissJustice)
Trusted Member

Rowdy, when I say these things they bloggers like Cruzan Iron call me paranoid.

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Posted : October 31, 2014 10:51 am
CruzanIron
(@cruzaniron)
Expert

I called you paranoid? I don't recall calling you anything.

I searched and it doesn't look like I ever used the word in any posts at all.

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Posted : October 31, 2014 11:19 am
vicanuck
(@vicanuck)
Expert

Maybe they're just going to lease the refinery from Hess. That would save a lot of headaches.

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Posted : October 31, 2014 11:21 am
CruzanIron
(@cruzaniron)
Expert

Maybe people ask their favorite legislator for a copy of the agreement that is in their hands and read it for themselves instead of asking baseless questions from others who also don't know what is going on.

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Posted : October 31, 2014 11:23 am
Rowdy802
(@Rowdy802)
Trusted Member

Maybe people ask their favorite legislator for a copy of the agreement that is in their hands and read it for themselves instead of asking baseless questions from others who also don't know what is going on.

As far as I know, they don't have all the information. I didn't say that, Nellie Rivera did. If ABR purchased Hovensa's operations, the price paid shouldn't be a big secret. In all the mergers and sales I've seen they mention how much it was for. When Marathon Petroleum Corporation bought Hess Oil Retail and some storage facilities, they paid 2.87 billion $$$, and that price was mentioned when they "shook" hands on the agreement.

They may be "baseless" questions to you, but not to me. I have looked at all the news reports and articles from the Dow Jones and SEC fillings. All the information comes from the government of the VIs and not the actual protagonists of the sale.

Again, I repeat, all we can do is wait...

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Posted : October 31, 2014 11:52 am
CruzanIron
(@cruzaniron)
Expert

Maybe people ask their favorite legislator for a copy of the agreement that is in their hands and read it for themselves instead of asking baseless questions from others who also don't know what is going on.

As far as I know, they don't have all the information. I didn't say that, Nellie Rivera did. If ABR purchased Hovensa's operations, the price paid shouldn't be a big secret. In all the mergers and sales I've seen they mention how much it was for. When Marathon Petroleum Corporation bought Hess Oil Retail and some storage facilities, they paid 2.87 billion $$$, and that price was mentioned when they "shook" hands on the agreement.

They may be "baseless" questions to you, but not to me. I have looked at all the news reports and articles from the Dow Jones and SEC fillings. All the information comes from the government of the VIs and not the actual protagonists of the sale.

Again, I repeat, all we can do is wait...

Nellie said so BEFORE the governor signed the agreement and gave copies of the signed agreement to the legislators.

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Posted : October 31, 2014 12:03 pm
Rowdy802
(@Rowdy802)
Trusted Member

From an article in the Virgin Islands Daily News (October 28th):

"The agreement

Senators said they have not yet seen the proposed agreement with the V.I. government.

Although some papers were handed out during the meeting, they were collected when the meeting was over, according to lawmakers."

Also from the VI Daily News (October 30th):

"Gov. John deJongh Jr. and Robert Moore, chief executive officer of Atlantic Basin Refining V.I., signed a proposed operating agreement Wednesday that will now go before the 30th Legislature for ratification."

Says, will now go, not given to them.

Anyway, I am talking about the sale agreement between ABR, Hess, and PDVSA, not the operating agreement with the VI Government.

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Posted : October 31, 2014 12:14 pm
Rowdy802
(@Rowdy802)
Trusted Member

Maybe they're just going to lease the refinery from Hess. That would save a lot of headaches.

The thought crossed my mind.

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Posted : October 31, 2014 12:19 pm
CruzanIron
(@cruzaniron)
Expert

If I was Hess, I wouldn't show the corporate sales agreement to anyone outside of the deal until the deal with the VI Government is in place.

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Posted : October 31, 2014 12:19 pm
MissJustice
(@MissJustice)
Trusted Member

1. The refinery is not sold.
2. They have a management agreement. And no assets.
3. And deJongh is the Worst of all Time. Everything he has ever touched turned to mold.

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Posted : October 31, 2014 8:20 pm
Alana33
(@alana33)
Expert

I hate to be so skeptical and feel so jaded but the timing for the announcements of this deal and the Golden Resort project at Great Pond coming so close prior to the election, simply reeks in my mind.
I hate feeling so distrustful.

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Posted : October 31, 2014 8:49 pm
Alana33
(@alana33)
Expert

Article 12 of the agreement outlines blanket tax exemptions for the operators of the refinery and all investors in the refinery:

"AVRVI, Holdings, ABR and each of their Affiliates or Equity Holders that are engaged in owning or operating in whole or material part, the Oil Refinery and Related Facilities, shall be exempt from payment of ... all taxes, fees, excises, duties, imposts and exaction imposed by or with the consent of the Government or any subdivision, agency or instrumentality thereof, on rehabilitation, ownership, operation, maintenance, expansion or other activity ... ."

"In addition to the general, blanket exemption, it specifically exempts the refinery from: gross receipts tax, property tax, corporate income tax; excise tax, customs duties, fuel tax, highway user's tax, production tax, franchise tax, license fees and withholdings on distributions to stockholders."

http://stthomassource.com/content/news/local-news/2014/11/01/dejongh-calls-special-session-refinery-agreement

So what do you think of this deal now?

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Posted : November 1, 2014 12:06 pm
CruzanIron
(@cruzaniron)
Expert

You deliberately ignored the cash payments.

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Posted : November 1, 2014 2:27 pm
Alana33
(@alana33)
Expert

Okay, add in the cash payments and tell me what you think?
There's no real info regarding the companies to discern who they are or past histories so I am curious what others think.

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Posted : November 1, 2014 2:37 pm
CruzanIron
(@cruzaniron)
Expert

You know what? I'm just going to sit back and wait for MJ to comment... 🙂

But it is JOBS that drive an economy. Not how much the company pays in taxes but what the employees pay in taxes and the purchases that they make. You don't live here and haven't seen what has happened. I'd rather have the jobs and nothing else at all than NO jobs at all.

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Posted : November 1, 2014 4:52 pm
janeinstx
(@janeinstx)
Trusted Member

You know what? I'm just going to sit back and wait for MJ to comment... 🙂

But it is JOBS that drive an economy. Not how much the company pays in taxes but what the employees pay in taxes and the purchases that they make. You don't live here and haven't seen what has happened. I'd rather have the jobs and nothing else at all than NO jobs at all.

What said

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Posted : November 1, 2014 7:29 pm
MissJustice
(@MissJustice)
Trusted Member

Maybe people ask their favorite legislator for a copy of the agreement that is in their hands and read it for themselves instead of asking baseless questions from others who also don't know what is going on.

Call it paraphrasing if you like. But every time I say something or ask a question about the viability of a contract you call it some synonym of paranoid. Like you just did with the term "baseless". How can a non weighted question be baseless? What is the opposite of paranoid?

Trusting? Gullible? Well. I think that is you. And I have a bridge in London to sell you because you never ask "baseless" questions like who owns it.

I would like you to list 3 questions that are "baseless" and state how.

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Posted : November 1, 2014 9:41 pm
CruzanIron
(@cruzaniron)
Expert

Sorry, MJ. Not gonna bite. I'll just sit back and wait for the contract to be signed.

I don't ask questions I know the answer to.

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Posted : November 1, 2014 10:45 pm
MissJustice
(@MissJustice)
Trusted Member

Sorry, MJ. Not gonna bite. I'll just sit back and wait for the contract to be signed.

I don't ask questions I know the answer to.

So you withdraw your "baseless questions" comment. Good. It looks like your baseless questions comment was, well, shall we say...baseless.

I understand and accept that we might not agree when all facts are out. But surely you cannot criticizing me or anyone else for asking questions or trying to educate ourselves before we sell our souls.

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Posted : November 1, 2014 11:09 pm
CruzanIron
(@cruzaniron)
Expert

Still making assumptions about people also, I see. That's starting to get a bit old.

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Posted : November 2, 2014 12:25 am
Paula
(@paula)
Advanced Member

But it is JOBS that drive an economy. Not how much the company pays in taxes but what the employees pay in taxes and the purchases that they make. You don't live here and haven't seen what has happened. I'd rather have the jobs and nothing else at all than NO jobs at all.

I agree! In this area of Texas where I live it's common for refineries starting up to get huge concessions like this-- the people don't like losing out on taxes and there is a lot of grumbling, but eventually everyone is thrilled with so many jobs available and all the jobs generated outside the refinery. (also the charitable work and scholarships to area schools) I hope this gets St Croix going in a successful direction again. (and isn't just smoke and mirrors...)

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Posted : November 2, 2014 1:47 am
singlefin
(@singlefin)
Trusted Member

Entire Operating Agreement available.
Click at bottom of article:

http://viconsortium.com/featured/contract-between-v-i-government-and-hovensa-buyer-revealed/

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Posted : November 2, 2014 2:30 am
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