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Residents: Interesting article on JF's gate policy

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IslandHops
(@IslandHops)
Trusted Member

Disclaimer: This post is more relevant for STX residents - not strictly related to moving here.

Interesting article in the Daily News today regarding beach access at Judith's Fancy. There have been multiple burglaries over the past few months and the homeowners recently instituted a new policy requiring a licence be presented for visitors to gain access. Some visitors object to this policy stating the VI code Open Shoreline Act for beach access. Now some of the usual local activists are involved, most interestingly Adelbert Bryan who had this to say about the gate:

"If they don't move it when they see me coming I will kick it down".
"They could believe whatever they want, but if we can't go in Judith's Fancy, none of them goin be able to come to Fredricksted or Sion Farm or Grove of Mon Bijou".

I wonder which "none of them" he was referring to?

This issue has greater ramifications than just JF as the debate between security/private property and public access applies to many locations. Also wonder why the AVIS had nothing on this?

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Topic starter Posted : October 3, 2012 2:42 pm
stxfoodie
(@stxfoodie)
Advanced Member

Interesting that this burning issue has come up just in time to give certain STX politicians an "us and dem" issue at election time.

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Posted : October 3, 2012 3:03 pm
Alana33
(@alana33)
Expert

I heard about it on the radio 1000 talk show this morning.
The guard at the gate was requesting to see people's driver's license before giving access much to the dismay of those wanting access, police were called and appearently, according to the police: no-one is allowed to ask anyone to display their id's in this manner.
Must be me, because I don't see what the big deal is about showing a drivers licenses since everywhere I go and must write a check, someone asks me to provide my driver's license or proof of identity. Is that against the law?

Anyway, it shall be interesting to see the outcome of this as this HOA only did this as it has been having issues with crime and was trying to protect it's homeowners.

It figures that Adelbert Bryan would be front and center with his belligerent, obnoxious, vituperous and confrontational attitudes.
No a fan, can you tell?

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Posted : October 3, 2012 3:15 pm
OldTart
(@the-oldtart)
Expert

Interesting that this burning issue has come up just in time to give certain STX politicians an "us and dem" issue at election time.

Any minor storm in a teacup is fodder and, as usual, Addlebrain's knock-em-down approach is so charmingly typical. Age obviously fails to mellow him ...

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Posted : October 3, 2012 3:17 pm
speee1dy
(@speee1dy)
Expert

Does this mean that if a person owned property on the beach, they have to let every one wonder onto their property so they can get to the beach?
just because all beachers are to be for public use, does that mean you have to provide them with a way to get to it?

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Posted : October 3, 2012 3:33 pm
IslandHops
(@IslandHops)
Trusted Member

When I visited a friend in JF recently we not only had to show our drivers license, but also had to leave it at the gate with the guard and pick it up when we left. Of course when leaving later that evening the guard gave me someone else license first - good thing I checked before driving off! 😎

And no, if you own waterfront property you do not have to let people walk across it to access the beach. However you cannot prevent anyone from being on the first 50ft of shoreline, or first natural boundary. How they gain access to that first 50ft is where it get's interesting.

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Topic starter Posted : October 3, 2012 3:41 pm
stxfoodie
(@stxfoodie)
Advanced Member

It figures that Adelbert Bryan would be front and center with his belligerent, obnoxious, vituperous and confrontational attitudes.
No a fan, can you tell?

And let's not forget our good friends Kendall Petersen and Senator Positive Nelson who joined the fray to bray loudly at this critical election time issue.

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Posted : October 3, 2012 3:43 pm
OldTart
(@the-oldtart)
Expert

Does this mean that if a person owned property on the beach, they have to let every one wonder onto their property so they can get to the beach?
just because all beachers are to be for public use, does that mean you have to provide them with a way to get to it?

Here's a link to the CZM act which is self-explanatory:

http://coastal-zone-management.dpnr.gov.vi/pages/public-access-283

Any commercial developer building on beachfront land must by law provide public access by road/path but private owners do not. However, the public is granted access to any beach by water up to the high tide line

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Posted : October 3, 2012 3:47 pm
IslandHops
(@IslandHops)
Trusted Member

It figures that Adelbert Bryan would be front and center with his belligerent, obnoxious, vituperous and confrontational attitudes.
No a fan, can you tell?

And let's not forget our good friends Kendall Petersen and Senator Positive Nelson who joined the fray to bray loudly at this critical election time issue.

Crap - Now I'll have to peel of my "Positive" sticker 😎

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Topic starter Posted : October 3, 2012 3:52 pm
St X
 St X
(@st_x)
Advanced Member

So, is anyone being denied access after showing their DL? (which anyone driving through the gate should have with them)
I have no problem showing my ID. I have nothing to hide. But letting them keep it at the guard shack is a different story.

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Posted : October 3, 2012 4:10 pm
Native Son
(@Native_Son)
Advanced Member

I heard about it on the radio 1000 talk show this morning.
The guard at the gate was requesting to see people's driver's license before giving access much to the dismay of those wanting access, police were called and appearently, according to the police: no-one is allowed to ask anyone to display their id's in this manner.
Must be me, because I don't see what the big deal is about showing a drivers licenses since everywhere I go and must write a check, someone asks me to provide my driver's license or proof of identity. Is that against the law?

Anyway, it shall be interesting to see the outcome of this as this HOA only did this as it has been having issues with crime and was trying to protect it's homeowners.

It figures that Adelbert Bryan would be front and center with his belligerent, obnoxious, vituperous and confrontational attitudes.
No a fan, can you tell?

Not that you would remember or care...you weren't here, I'm sure. However, this kind of thing is what led to the incident at the place that used to be called Fountain Valley. I would be very cautious about antagonizing people in this day and age, when things are much worse economically than at the time of the incident. People are also much better armed now. I would be very careful about brushing off Mr. Bryan as casually as you are doing...you have no idea who his followers are, what their numbers are, or what they are capable of doing.

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Posted : October 3, 2012 4:29 pm
gringojj
(@gringojj)
Advanced Member

I have no problem showing my license but if it is against the law then they shouldnt do it. I went to visit someobe there a couple of weeks ago and had to surrender my license. I really felt uncomfortable leaving such an important documents in the possession of a stranger.

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Posted : October 3, 2012 4:31 pm
Alana33
(@alana33)
Expert

I heard about it on the radio 1000 talk show this morning.
The guard at the gate was requesting to see people's driver's license before giving access much to the dismay of those wanting access, police were called and appearently, according to the police: no-one is allowed to ask anyone to display their id's in this manner.
Must be me, because I don't see what the big deal is about showing a drivers licenses since everywhere I go and must write a check, someone asks me to provide my driver's license or proof of identity. Is that against the law?

Anyway, it shall be interesting to see the outcome of this as this HOA only did this as it has been having issues with crime and was trying to protect it's homeowners.

It figures that Adelbert Bryan would be front and center with his belligerent, obnoxious, vituperous and confrontational attitudes.
No a fan, can you tell?

Not that you would remember or care...you weren't here, I'm sure. However, this kind of thing is what led to the incident at the place that used to be called Fountain Valley. I would be very cautious about antagonizing people in this day and age, when things are much worse economically than at the time of the incident. People are also much better armed now. I would be very careful about brushing off Mr. Bryan as casually as you are doing...you have no idea who his followers are, what their numbers are, or what they are capable of doing.

I was here when Fountain Valley occured. I cared very much back then and still do.
I am a 13th generation Virgin islander and know quite well how the bullies bully, threaten and intimidate.
Sad to say!

STXfoodie - peel the Positive sticker off and replace it with "Negative!" because that's the truth.

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Posted : October 3, 2012 4:52 pm
LuckyGirl56
(@LuckyGirl56)
Advanced Member

According to a close friend of mine who lives in Judith's Fancy, anyone other than a resident, must LEAVE their driver's license at the guard gate. Not just SHOW it to them LEAVE it with the person at the guard gate.

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Posted : October 3, 2012 5:23 pm
Alana33
(@alana33)
Expert

Crap - Now I'll have to peel of my "Positive" sticker 😎

Sorry stxfoodie the comment "peel the Positive sticker off and replace it with "Negative!" because that's the truth." was for Island Hops.
My mistake.

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Posted : October 3, 2012 5:23 pm
Alana33
(@alana33)
Expert

According to a close friend of mine who lives in Judith's Fancy, anyone other than a resident, must LEAVE their driver's license at the guard gate. Not just SHOW it to them LEAVE it with the person at the guard gate.

If you think about it - it is a good way to insure people check back out and Guards/HOA are able to track who comes and goes.
I really do not see why the ruckus except for those that like to agitate and create mountains out of molehills.
I would think that the majority of people using the beach and those that live there would like the enhanced sense of security this offers to both visitor and resident, alike.

ReplyQuote
Posted : October 3, 2012 5:29 pm
OldTart
(@the-oldtart)
Expert

Not that you would remember or care...you weren't here, I'm sure. However, this kind of thing is what led to the incident at the place that used to be called Fountain Valley. I would be very cautious about antagonizing people in this day and age, when things are much worse economically than at the time of the incident. People are also much better armed now. I would be very careful about brushing off Mr. Bryan as casually as you are doing...you have no idea who his followers are, what their numbers are, or what they are capable of doing.

Whoa there - you know what is said about making assumptions. And reference brushing off "Mr Bryan's" comments, you've certainly been here long enough to know that the tactics he displays are exactly what he displayed back in the day when his intimidation, threats and rampant racism fueled the fire and kept many of his detractors at bay. Times continue to change and Addlebrain is but a parody of himself at this point but still stamping his feet like a 2 year old having a tantrum.

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Posted : October 3, 2012 5:56 pm
stiphy
(@stiphy)
Trusted Member

Alana, that was the idea. There have been breakins in JF and the goal is to provide open access to our fellow islanders while still maintaining security for residents.

Sean

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Posted : October 3, 2012 5:58 pm
Texas_Webmaster
(@Texas_Webmaster)
Advanced Member

Just to clarify what is happening at the moment, id is still being asked, but it is not being held. I think that was done for a few days last month. The future plan is to scan the id, but JF is looking into whether or not they can or cannot do that.

Chad

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Posted : October 3, 2012 6:26 pm
speee1dy
(@speee1dy)
Expert

thanks to those that answered my question. continued security and safety to those who live in JF

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Posted : October 3, 2012 6:30 pm
stxfoodie
(@stxfoodie)
Advanced Member

STXfoodie - peel the Positive sticker off and replace it with "Negative!" because that's the truth.

I think Islandhops has the sticker so thankfully I have nothing to peel off.

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Posted : October 3, 2012 6:41 pm
gringojj
(@gringojj)
Advanced Member

Personally I dont see what the benefit of holding the ID is. Is it really plausible that a vehicle will enter through the gate and not come out?
Are they afraid that if they dont hold the ID and the person has an SUV that they will break into someones house and then drive over rugged terrain out of JF to escape? Is that even possible?

It would seem to me that keeping a record of who is entering is enough but apparently not because they had break ins while using this strategy.

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Posted : October 3, 2012 7:56 pm
picaflores
(@picaflores)
Advanced Member

Was there today looking at a house, was asked for my name, the plot nr, and I think they wrote down my license plate.
I had my drivers license ready and was told that "they don't do that anymore".

Just for info from their website...
http://www.judithsfancy.com/gaterules/default.html

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Posted : October 3, 2012 8:50 pm
SunnyCaribe
(@SunnyCaribe)
Advanced Member

JF was a grand community when I moved here. Now it is largely a repository for scared white bigots. I do not associate with anyone therein, and I avoid businesses owned by residents of JF whenever and wherever possible.

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Posted : October 3, 2012 9:11 pm
Ronnie
(@ronnie)
Trusted Member

When you visit anyone here at RLS Hospital, you surrender your driver's license until you leave. I doubt that law is real.

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Posted : October 3, 2012 9:17 pm
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