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Residents: Interesting article on JF's gate policy

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Alana33
(@alana33)
Expert

JF was a grand community when I moved here. Now it is largely a repository for scared white bigots. I do not associate with anyone therein, and I avoid businesses owned by residents of JF whenever and wherever possible.

Gee, I guess that's not too bigoted a response!

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Posted : October 3, 2012 9:25 pm
speee1dy
(@speee1dy)
Expert

alana, i was thinking the same thing

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Posted : October 3, 2012 9:28 pm
Cruz
 Cruz
(@Cruz)
Advanced Member

The residents of Judith's Fancy are claiming that the main road is private, and I have serious doubts about that. There is an old sugar plantation in Judith's Fancy and the ruins are still there. The plantation and the road were there before these folks decided to create their enclave. This is not a subdivision like situation in which land was bought and subdivided. The main road was always there.

The guards have been telling folks that they'll have to park at the guard shack and then walk down in order to access the beach. They cannot restrict access on a public road.

I've never been a Bert Bryan fan and I don't always agree with his means and methods....but in this case, I'm with him 100%. Some may want to make this a racial thing or a local vs continentals thing, however it's bigger than that. Judith's Fancy was a popular area for surfers and they were also denied access, having to walk the mile or two to the beach with surf boards in hand. Everyone and the greater community of St. Croix will benefit from him standing up for this issue.

As for the residents complaints of recent break ins, the word on the street is that it's been an inside job. So the residents should be more concerned about who's living among them, rather than who's visiting. And they need to get their money back from those security guards, cause they're obviously not doing their job well if break ins are happening.

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Posted : October 3, 2012 10:38 pm
Alana33
(@alana33)
Expert

Check out the posts on the Sensi beach topic.

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Posted : October 3, 2012 11:18 pm
Surfer33
(@Surfer33)
Advanced Member

The dopey, ill-informed misinformation on this this forum is truly stunning. First of all, the main road to Judiths Fancy is indeed private and is maintained by our annual HOA fees. Anyone willing to contest that is waging a losing battle. The letter of the law gives Judiths Fancy the inherent right to set their own rules and regulations. The face of Judiths Fancy is a mosaic of accomplished, hard working citizens who are deeply vested in their island and their property. Lawns are meticulously manicured and pride of property ownership is abundantly clear. Both of my neighbors are white and they are as warm and embracing as my stateside neighbors. I have never seen any hints of racism or bigotry and I am not white by any stretch of the imagination. Blacks live here, Palestinians live here, Indians live here, Filipinos live here and couple of homeowners who are of a different species live here but nonetheless they too have assimilated. The recent burglaries have for the most part been digitally documented and were undoubtedly committed by outsiders using the guise of gaining access for lobster fishing. Unless you know all the facts, please don't spread your falsehoods and innuendos. Not cool.

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Posted : October 4, 2012 12:11 am
Alana33
(@alana33)
Expert

Great that you cleared that up!(tu)

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Posted : October 4, 2012 12:57 am
Cruz
 Cruz
(@Cruz)
Advanced Member

*-) Just because you all have maintained the road and have been getting away with your private road claims that doesn't make it a private road. Since you all want to claim roads you might as well say that the road is private all the way up to Northside Rd (Rt 75). That is how outlandish you all sound about your private road claims.

You can set your own rules and regulation on your own land. The letter of the law does not give you the right to claim or control a public road. Far too long, you all have been getting away with this and I'm happy to see people finally standing up to this nonsense.

And if you all have digital documentation of the burglaries then your guards should have been able to either catch or prevent the perpetrators. The situation should have been remedied after the first break in. What's the purpose of having guards if you all are having all these burglaries:S Like I said before....sounds like an inside job to me.

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Posted : October 4, 2012 12:58 am
JahRustyFerrari
(@jahrustyferrari)
Advanced Member

The dopey, ill-informed misinformation on this this forum is truly stunning. First of all, the main road to Judiths Fancy is indeed private and is maintained by our annual HOA fees. Anyone willing to contest that is waging a losing battle. The letter of the law gives Judiths Fancy the inherent right to set their own rules and regulations. The face of Judiths Fancy is a mosaic of accomplished, hard working citizens who are deeply vested in their island and their property. Lawns are meticulously manicured and pride of property ownership is abundantly clear. Both of my neighbors are white and they are as warm and embracing as my stateside neighbors. I have never seen any hints of racism or bigotry and I am not white by any stretch of the imagination. Blacks live here, Palestinians live here, Indians live here, Filipinos live here and couple of homeowners who are of a different species live here but nonetheless they too have assimilated. The recent burglaries have for the most part been digitally documented and were undoubtedly committed by outsiders using the guise of gaining access for lobster fishing. Unless you know all the facts, please don't spread your falsehoods and innuendos. Not cool.

Not too sure about main road being private...I lown a house in Carambola, and our HOA maintains the "main" road from the turn-off after Annalee Farms all the way to the gate. We do it for aesthetic reasons, but it is a public road. We just would rather not have the road to our community littered with garbage thrown from vehicles.

All visitors entering Carambola are checked at the gate by an armed guard. Residents have an automatic gate opener. We have had issues with burglaries also. One of my neighbors left his house for a few months like he does each year, and some vagrant came onto the property through the bushes and was living in the house...he continued to attempt to do so even after he was discovered...he broke three windows trying to get back in, even after we installed cameras and a new alarm system. Carambola has the highest HOA rates on the island, and we are serious about security. These are difficult times. It is not a racial issue, unless people want to make an issue of race.

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Posted : October 4, 2012 10:58 am
SunnyCaribe
(@SunnyCaribe)
Advanced Member

How is it that Carambola and Shoys manage to be more opulent, desirable and secure addresses without willfully courting the contempt of the island? Don't make the mistake of thinking this is an envy issue. It's about elitism and fear. We left JF in 2005 after 20 years and we're glad we did.

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Posted : October 4, 2012 11:32 am
vasecs
(@vasecs)
Advanced Member

I heard about it on the radio 1000 talk show this morning.
The guard at the gate was requesting to see people's driver's license before giving access much to the dismay of those wanting access, police were called and appearently, according to the police: no-one is allowed to ask anyone to display their id's in this manner.
Must be me, because I don't see what the big deal is about showing a drivers licenses since everywhere I go and must write a check, someone asks me to provide my driver's license or proof of identity. Is that against the law?

Anyway, it shall be interesting to see the outcome of this as this HOA only did this as it has been having issues with crime and was trying to protect it's homeowners.

It figures that Adelbert Bryan would be front and center with his belligerent, obnoxious, vituperous and confrontational attitudes.
No a fan, can you tell?

Not that you would remember or care...you weren't here, I'm sure. However, this kind of thing is what led to the incident at the place that used to be called Fountain Valley. I would be very cautious about antagonizing people in this day and age, when things are much worse economically than at the time of the incident. People are also much better armed now. I would be very careful about brushing off Mr. Bryan as casually as you are doing...you have no idea who his followers are, what their numbers are, or what they are capable of doing.

I was here when Fountain Valley occured. I cared very much back then and still do.
I am a 13th generation Virgin islander and know quite well how the bullies bully, threaten and intimidate.
Sad to say!

STXfoodie - peel the Positive sticker off and replace it with "Negative!" because that's the truth.

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Posted : October 4, 2012 11:52 am
vasecs
(@vasecs)
Advanced Member

Alana33, out of curiosity, 13th generation! How long ago was that? That is impressive. I know some 5, 6th etc. but 13......WOW! Is it possible to expand on?

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Posted : October 4, 2012 11:56 am
vicanuck
(@vicanuck)
Expert

I have no problem leaving my ID at the gate. The roads in JF are owned by the association and they can make whatever rules about using them they wish. No one is saying folks can't use the beach...they just have to walk in.

Imagine someone telling The Buccaneer Hotel that they have to let residents park at the Mermaid so they can use the beach.

As if that would ever happen.

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Posted : October 4, 2012 12:26 pm
Alana33
(@alana33)
Expert

My niece, Valerie, is the family genealogist so she has the whole thing on paper. She would be 14th generation and her kids, 15th.
She recently wrote about some of our family history for one of her classes and has my ancestor originally leaving France and arriving in St. Christopher (St. Kitts) in the early 1600's to avoid religious persecution by the French King, Louis XIV.
She found our ancestor's descendants on the very first census taken in Spanish Town, Virgin Gorda, in the year 1716 and from old records, and letters has traced us all thru the islands, including Anagada, Tortola, St. John, St. Thomas and St. Croix from around 1620 onwards.

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Posted : October 4, 2012 12:33 pm
IslandHops
(@IslandHops)
Trusted Member

STXfoodie - peel the Positive sticker off and replace it with "Negative!" because that's the truth.

I think Islandhops has the sticker so thankfully I have nothing to peel off.

Not sure I will peel it off after all. Based on Mr. Bryan's comments it may come in handy as a parking pass! (yes club snarky is back).

On a serious note there are MANY roads on this island connecting the main road to beach access that are private and most folks wouldn't even know it. Some associations choose to put up barricades, which they are within their legal rights to do so, and some do not. I do not believe this is a reflection on the racial makeup or bigotry nature of the residents. It is the escalation of crime that results in associations increasing security (where fiscally prudent). Some of the comments expressed against residents because of this are unfounded. No, I don't live in JF, but I do have friends who live there. Accusing residents of being bigots is ridiculous and unfounded, and only increases tension in these stressful economic times.

Any questions regarding ownership can be resolved by a visit to the cadastral office. I'm pretty sure in this case the JF association is fully within their legal rights and that ownership is clearly documented.

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Topic starter Posted : October 4, 2012 1:32 pm
JahRustyFerrari
(@jahrustyferrari)
Advanced Member

How is it that Carambola and Shoys manage to be more opulent, desirable and secure addresses without willfully courting the contempt of the island? Don't make the mistake of thinking this is an envy issue. It's about elitism and fear. We left JF in 2005 after 20 years and we're glad we did.

I'm sure Shoys and JF are filled with wonderful people also, but Carambola is home to some of the best-loved medical professionals on the island...it is the home of Janzie Allmacher who has taught nursing to hundreds of Crucians. Dr. Anduze lived there...he helped countless numbers of Crucians to see better. The fabulous Dr. Anders lives there...you'd be hard-pressed to find a nicer OB/GYN!! Lots of Crucian babies have been delivered by his skilled hands. Carambola residents have very close ties to the local community, just as Shoys and JF do. In all my years living there I have not detected any elitism. It is a very neighborly place where we all look out for each other, regardless of income level.

Some may consider the HOA fees to be a form of elitism...after all, we pay over $250.00 a month for HOA fees If you own more than one property you pay the monthly fee for each. Some people spend more than that monthly on cell phone charges, so it's all relative.

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Posted : October 4, 2012 1:43 pm
Matt T
(@Matt_T)
Advanced Member

People build walls and barriers to keep people out and all it does is make them want to come in even more.

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Posted : October 4, 2012 2:02 pm
stiphy
(@stiphy)
Trusted Member

JF was a grand community when I moved here. Now it is largely a repository for scared white bigots. I do not associate with anyone therein, and I avoid businesses owned by residents of JF whenever and wherever possible.

I am sorry you feel this way but I can tell you that one of the reasons I bought a house in JF is that I did not find that to be the case at all. I see a ton of diversity in JF. There are "native virgin islanders" living here, middle eastern businessmen, people from other islands, african american's and "white" people from the states. Why would a "scared white bigot" would choose to live on St. Croix at all? It just doesn't make sense.

Sean

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Posted : October 4, 2012 2:11 pm
stiphy
(@stiphy)
Trusted Member

Any questions regarding ownership can be resolved by a visit to the cadastral office. I'm pretty sure in this case the JF association is fully within their legal rights and that ownership is clearly documented.

I've seen the cadastral reports and the roads were built by the Oxford corporation as part of the JF subdivision construction and then deeded to the JF owners association. Legally they are private roads. But I'm not sure why that has become an issue because no one I've talked to at JF wants to be walled off from the rest of the island or deny access to anyone from enjoying the natural beauty in JF. We just want to make sure the community is safe and that houses aren't being burglarized. Striking a reasonable balance between open access and security is the goal. I don't see how asking visitors to identify themselves with picture ID (a drivers license if you are driving a vehicle) places an undo hardship to their access. I can understand consternation about leaving the ID at the gate, that policy was rescinded and was really a ramp up that was put into place when we had multiple burglaries occur within a week timeframe.

I hear people all the time complaining about crime in the VI. This security measure did aid in stopping the burglaries and hopefully did not place any undo hardship on the visitors that we enjoy sharing our community with.

All that said, private message me if you have had a problem at the JF gate and I will try to bring up your concerns with members of the JF board.

Sean

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Posted : October 4, 2012 2:36 pm
stxfoodie
(@stxfoodie)
Advanced Member

Well, if asking someone to present a photo ID in order to vote for president in the US is an undue hardship the case COULD be made............

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Posted : October 4, 2012 3:30 pm
JahRustyFerrari
(@jahrustyferrari)
Advanced Member

People build walls and barriers to keep people out and all it does is make them want to come in even more.

Bootom line is, if you drive up to the guard house at the entrance to my neighborhood, Carambola Golf Course, you will be stopped by an armed guard and asked to present ID...he doesn't care how many times you've been there before. I have friends who visit me regularly, and they are always asked for ID. The guard will call my home and ask if I'm expecting such and such a person. If you are a visitor, you are expected to have a legitimate reason for entering the area. Even with such stringent requirements, Carambola remains an open community where people often come to take wedding pictures, for example.

IMHO, nobody who is in a place legitimately should have a problem showing ID...as a matter of fact, when we changed guard companies even home-owners were asked for ID, until the guards got settled in.

We're not trying to build barriers and keep people out. However, a person who is paying close to $300.00 a month for HOA fees probably has a lot of pride in his neighborhood and would like to see it retain its beauty and value.

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Posted : October 4, 2012 4:32 pm
Alana33
(@alana33)
Expert

Seems perfectly reasonable to me to have those security measures in place.
Most Condo Associations (as well as the resorts and hotels) will have some form or another or all to protect their owners, guests and tenants. I have no issues with presenting an ID if entering a gated community.
If you are allowed access thru private property by this means, what is the big deal?
If not, buy a boat and access from the ocean as is allowed.

People complain all the time about crime and when the situation arises where measures are in place and have to be taken to avoid and prevent crime, then you cry foul
What's up with that?

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Posted : October 4, 2012 4:46 pm
Matt T
(@Matt_T)
Advanced Member

I don't argue the fact that homeowners want to stay safe. But using your example RustyFerrari of the guy sneaking in and living in someone's house proves my point. People know that if a wall or guard gate exists, there must be valuable pocessions inside and scheme up ways to get around the security measures.

Walls and guard gates are an ineffective way to protect a neighborhood as evidinced by the example you stated and the fact that houses are getting robbed in JF with a guard gate and security.

Berlin wall, Great wall of china, border between US and Mexico, border between Israel and Palestine just to give a few other examples of why fences, walls, etc do not work.

Stop building barriers and start buliding communities that live in harmony

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Posted : October 4, 2012 5:06 pm
Alana33
(@alana33)
Expert

Personally, I like barriers such as walls and fences, especially since I don't live in a gated, guarded community.
What's the old saying about good fences make for good neighbors?
When people stop stealing from and killing each other, we won't need barriers, gates and guards, meantime, until and unless, crime goes down, people have the right to feel safe, even if it is an illusion, on their own properties and do what they can to prevent and protect.

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Posted : October 4, 2012 5:14 pm
stxfoodie
(@stxfoodie)
Advanced Member

IStop building barriers and start buliding communities that live in harmony

I have to ask...what. in real concrete terms...does this mean?

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Posted : October 4, 2012 5:20 pm
Cruz
 Cruz
(@Cruz)
Advanced Member

Any questions regarding ownership can be resolved by a visit to the cadastral office. I'm pretty sure in this case the JF association is fully within their legal rights and that ownership is clearly documented.

I've seen the cadastral reports and the roads were built by the Oxford corporation as part of the JF subdivision construction and then deeded to the JF owners association. Legally they are private roads. But I'm not sure why that has become an issue because no one I've talked to at JF wants to be walled off from the rest of the island or deny access to anyone from enjoying the natural beauty in JF. We just want to make sure the community is safe and that houses aren't being burglarized. Striking a reasonable balance between open access and security is the goal. I don't see how asking visitors to identify themselves with picture ID (a drivers license if you are driving a vehicle) places an undo hardship to their access. I can understand consternation about leaving the ID at the gate, that policy was rescinded and was really a ramp up that was put into place when we had multiple burglaries occur within a week timeframe.

I hear people all the time complaining about crime in the VI. This security measure did aid in stopping the burglaries and hopefully did not place any undo hardship on the visitors that we enjoy sharing our community with.

All that said, private message me if you have had a problem at the JF gate and I will try to bring up your concerns with members of the JF board.

Sean

Are you saying that the main road (now called Hamilton Drive) did not exist prior to Oxford purchasing the land?

How did people get to the Sugar plantation in the 1700s prior to Oxford purchasing the land? The plantation was there way before you say that Oxford built the roads.

Did Rt 75-1 dead end at the guard shack prior to Oxford building roads? Why would the road not continue on towards the plantation?

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Posted : October 4, 2012 6:05 pm
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