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Trade
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Mom trained 'em right!

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Posted : June 18, 2008 11:30 am
trw
 trw
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well i'm in a quandry and i guess i need some advice, the really old dog(katy) we got from hess's office has lost control of her bladder and now just pees where she lays when she needs to go, she's almost bald,she wheezing and hacking all the time now, we know for sure she's at least 14 but hess has no idea how old she was when he treated her back in 1994, i think we've had her for alittle over a year now,hess wants us to spend alot of money to keep her going and well since i'm basically broke and the other half is taking care of the house stuff, i'm thinking just stop any doc stuff and let her go, she does'nt seem to be in pain, you know i'm sounding heartless about this but i'm not, my first instinct is to take her to hess and have her put down and the other half just says to let her die on her own,i mean when is enough enough, and Lizard i mean no offense to you whatsoever, any thoughts anyone?

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Topic starter Posted : June 19, 2008 7:16 pm
Bombi
(@Bombi)
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TRW I had the same issue with MEG my Irish setter I had for 14 years. She started having some issues and against the advise of the vet I spent a lot of $ on her. She was my best friend, went to work with me every day, she thought she was human. Then she started having control problems and her hip issues worsened. In my rural background I was taught not to let animals suffer. Meg was suffering so I called the vet to have her put down, sent the family away for the weekend and dug a hole in the back yard. I remember I was going to take her on Sat. morning. As we were leaving and i was about to put her in the truck she wandered into the road and was hit by a car, dead. I guess it was Karma. That was 15 years ago and I still miss her. 14 is old, and its difficult not to try to help but sometimes it's best to let nature take its course. My profound sympathy for anyone who has to deal with this.

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Posted : June 19, 2008 7:44 pm
limetime2
(@limetime2)
Advanced Member

You ask a very hard and very personal question that only you can answer since only you know her condition, your feelings, etc. Its easy to look to others for permission to make the hard decision, but ultimately only you know what is really right for your pet and only you will have to live with the consequences of your choice.

Is she suffering, is she in pain? Why is she almost bald??? Allergies, Hot Spots, Mange? Was she being treated for that? Why is she wheezing/hacking? Heartworm? Not being able to get up to go sounds like she is having mobility issues, not just incontenence. Is she arthritic? What does Hess say is wrong with her... old age, or something that is treatable? Is this all new? Hess is usually very sensible, kind, and realistic. I've never known him to recommend a treatment just to line his pocketbook. He is a great animal lover and a common sense kind of guy. Have you asked him about your choices?

Letting go of a pet is a very difficult and personal decision and each person must make that decision, with input of course from your vet. Financial consideration must be taken into account, but hat said, letting "her die on her own" is NOT an option. You must either medicate her, make her as comfortable as possible and make sure that she is not suffering and/or in pain... or you must choose to have her put to sleep. You are the responsible human and she is counting on you to do what is right. You can not let her suffer. Please. Don't let her suffer.

Pet ownership is a priviledge and a responsibility.

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Posted : June 19, 2008 7:50 pm
trw
 trw
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she's bald because she is allergic to some type of microscopic tick that can only be seen by a microscope, hess put her on antibiotics and that cleared it up,i'd keep doing that but he won't let me, he wants heartworm tests done and then if she's free of worms he wants to start her on a special type of medicine that he invented, which i've discussed in this forum before, she hacks and wheezes because she's old and it's not constant, she goes outside for about 6 hours every night, she is mobile it seems when she wants to be, but now she just pees where she lays but she always poops outside,she can find the food and water dishes quite well, it takes her a few minutes to stand up but she does it, she can no longer get on the furniture, and she does not wimper or whine at all, i'm a farm kid and granddad just put them down when they got too old, if they ate chickens at anytime they got shot,so i guess i'm trying to reconcile that type of common sense farm upbringing with the non farm life i have now, i honestly don't think she is suffering, her appetite is good, she still snaps at our other dogs if they get too close and well the cats are too fast for her,my own thinking is that if you take in animals you need to have them fixed and then the vacines yearly and the heartworm pills monthly, flea and tick baths weekly, you feed them good food,not grocery store dog food, play with them and TALK to them and thats about it,unless they are special needs dogs like Lizards you do not spend extra money on them for expensive surgeries or meds unless its like a broken leg.And i know pet ownership comes with responsibilities,i'm just wondering when enough is enough

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Topic starter Posted : June 19, 2008 8:20 pm
Trade
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Trw, I doubt she's all that comfortable if she's wheezing & hacking. Unless she's a little senile, she's probably not happy about having to urinate where she lies. She must not have been a puppy when Dr. Hess first treated her. If you want my opinion (and trust me, I've been through this more than once) her quality of life doesn't sound too good. I'd ask Dr. Hess if she IS comfortable & if she is, waiting for nature to take its course is fine IMO, but frankly, I'm more sad over a dog who no longer can have any fun. She sure has lived a good, long life & if you think you could stand to have her put down, nobody would fault you.

Wheezing can be heart problems or heartworm, unless you know she's been treated. The bladder problem probably can't be fixed. Good luck with a really tough decision.

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Posted : June 19, 2008 8:26 pm
Trade
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Oops, I was posting at the same time you were, trw. If she does have heartworm, she's too old to survive the treatment I'm guessing. It's hard on young animals. This is only the start of her downhill slide, you know.

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Posted : June 19, 2008 8:29 pm
Trade
(@Trade)
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Went to the new Four Seasons market in Lockhart Gardens today. REALLY nice & Horizon Organic milk is $2.00/half gallon cheaper than Gourmet Gallery, at least for now. Great produce & tons of organic products plus they give a 15% discount for senior citizens. Gad, that would be ME. 😮 Wonderful produce & fruit & exceptionally nice check-out people. Can't wait until they get their ready to go meals up & running. Nice meat counter, too.

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Posted : June 19, 2008 8:39 pm
trw
 trw
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ah Trade we went through this in minneapolis before we moved here for good, the other half had a sheppard that had displaysia and tumours and was blind in one eye and buddy could barely walk anymore and the other half had him put down before we flew down here for good, he took him to the vet and just held him through the injection and then until he passed and that was the first time i ever saw the other half cry and we'd been together for 9 years by then, the second and only other time was when in 2001 the wild dogs here killed his cat that he'd had longer than he'd had me,and after that we spent 6000 bucks and fenced in our property.

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Topic starter Posted : June 19, 2008 8:44 pm
Trade
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Then let's just hope she either improves or goes quietly in her sleep. I know how tough this is.

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Posted : June 19, 2008 8:46 pm
charlotte
(@charlotte)
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Giving in to putting down an animal is a terrible, horrible experience....you feel guilty...you feel, "Is there anything else I could have done"... God, I have had to do this about 3 times.....But, I do know this, DON'T BE SELFISH... and by that I mean... stop holding on to the last minute... your number one concern is the pet, not you... It took me twice before I realized that I had held on too long. Do not let your pets suffer any longer than they have to...You are not alone... It is one of the hardest things I have ever had to do....
I'm so sorry for anyone that has to go thru this.... and most all pet owners do at one time or another.... Just be strong and remember the love that the pet gave you unconditionally for so many years....

Charlotte

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Posted : June 20, 2008 12:28 am
SunOrSki
(@SunOrSki)
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trw, I am sorry, really am. Pets are part of our family. We had to put down our 17 year old cat , Vincent, a couple years ago and it was super tough. I wish I knew the website I found at the time, but I ran across a story about a family dog that suggested we should let go when our pets stopped enjoying their role as our pets - when you know they are suffering or when you know they have no pleasure from our praise or food . They live for us and food. Only you know when that time has come. Wait until you know for sure, but before it breaks your heart to watch Katy suffer.

Before putting the dog down, that family dad wrote a letter to each member of the family from the dog about how much he loved his life with all of them. So, before Vincent died I held him in my lap and wrote a letter to my BF from what I imagined were Vincent's words. It was great therapy ( i hugged him, laughed and cried a lot while writing) and allowed me to remember all the great memories we had. Still today I cry over that letter, BF still cannot read it all the way through, but can whenver he wants to. He was a special cat.

BF only let me mope for two days and then took me to the animal shelter, against my repeated protests, and we rescued a cat and a kitten. I hated to admit it at the time because I was so against it, but he was right. Those crazy new cats really helped heal our pain. We still think Vincent was the best cat ever but we have a new "family" and cannot imagine life without them.

Best wishes to you during this difficult time.

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Posted : June 20, 2008 3:18 am
SailAway
(@SailAway)
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Beautiful post, SOS. Wish I had done that for my 13-year-old son when I finally decided to put my 13-year-old poodle down in December.

TRW, I share your anguish in making a choice. When Milo started becoming sick, I did not know exactly what to do, and as an ethical issue, my vet refused to encourage me one way or the other. She would tell me what could be done to help if I chose to try to keep Milo going, and in the same breath she would remind me that it was impossible to predict exactly how long my faithful friend would last if I did. It could be years but it could be weeks or even days... however Milo was getting up there in years and with the problems she had as a 5-year-old with Valley Fever (a local fungus that infests the dry desert soil here in Arizona), I should not expect her to live as long as other poodles I've known and loved. Yet when I asked the vet what she thought I should do or what she would do if she were me, she simply answered, "It's a difficult choice to make, but only you can make it." I could be wrong, but I'm guessing that's the subtext of Hess' message as well, Troy.

I kept hoping Milo would get better until I knew she never would. I held off until Milo lost her appetite completely, and I realized I had waited too long. It made the suffering worse, not only for Milo, but for me and most importantly for my son. Milo had been with us all my son's life... through the loss of his mother, then mine, and through other two-legged, four-legged, winged and finned family members along the way. I regret saving my son the memories of the last week or two when Milo would sit mournfully in one spot all day, sometimes in her own waste, looking up at my son and me with those sad "help-me" eyes. Only after the injection and Milo's "whimper of welcome [was] stilled (how still!)" did the vet finally assure me I had done the right thing.

When Milo died I recalled a poem my mother used to read to me written by one of my favorite poets.... (no copyright notice is needed as this poem is over 75 years old -- Kipling died in 1936)

The Power of the Dog
by
Rudyard Kipling

There is sorrow enough in the natural way
From men and women to fill our day;
And when we are certain of sorrow in store,
Why do we always arrange for more?
Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.

Buy a pup and your money will buy
Love unflinching that cannot lie--
Perfect Passion and worship fed
By a kick in the ribs or a pat on the head.
Nevertheless it is hardly fair
To risk your heart to a dog to tear.

When the fourteen years which Nature permits
Are closing in asthma, or tumour, or fits,
And the vet's unspoken prescription runs
To lethal chambers or loaded guns,
Then you will find--it's your own affair--
But ... you've given your heart to a dog to tear.

When the body that lived at your single will,
With its whimper of welcome, is stilled (how still!)
When the spirit that answered your every mood
Is gone--wherever it goes--for good,
You will discover how much you care,
And will give your heart to a dog to tear.

We've sorrow enough in the natural way,
When it comes to burying Christian clay.
Our loves are not given, but only lent,
At compound interest of cent per cent.
Though it is not always the case, I believe,
That the longer we've kept 'em, the more do we grieve:
For, when debts are payable, right or wrong,
A short-term loan is as bad as a long--
So why in--Heaven (before we are there)
Should we give our hearts to a dog to tear?

BTW, I'm a member who goes back on this board much farther than the "member since" date on my profile (Islander had some computer issue in 2005 that forced me to re-register). I used to be somewhat active but stopped visiting for quite a while after a change in circumstances last year that left me not knowing when I would be able to return to my beloved USVI. However in recent weeks I have been lurking and when I found this thread I read every post with relish and often with envy. As the number of views suggests, this thread is an important narcotic for some of us who are unable to get our daily fix of "island air" directly through our lungs. I urge the three "T's" (TRW, Tam and Trade) and everyone else living on-island who post here regularly to keep them coming...

I'm there with you in spirit...

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Posted : June 20, 2008 5:01 pm
Trade
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Expert

That was great, Sailaway. Milo was lucky to be in your family. Sad that it wasn't as long as you would have wished, but it never is, is it?

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Posted : June 20, 2008 8:05 pm
SunOrSki
(@SunOrSki)
Advanced Member

Thanks for your beautiful post SailAway

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Posted : June 21, 2008 3:48 am
Lizard
(@Lizard)
Trusted Member

Hi Everybody,
I Have, I Think the only Golden retriever that can't swim. I Have had her in a pool with a life jacket on and the panic has just about gone away. So to try something new, while my wife was busy with some old friends, I'd take Annie to the beach. We made a stop at the FT Monmouth Post PX to pick up some sun screen, beach chair etc. I asked the clerk where a good beach would be to bring Annie without to much of a hassle. For those of you that don't know (Annie a/k/a Anastasia) is my new service dog in training. I'm never really in the minute of time (Present) kinda past and future. So we pack the car, and off we go, to Gunnison Beach at Sandy Hook NJ. This Beach is owned and maintained by the National Parks (Federal) on the Atlantic in NJ. We get up to the entrance gate to the park and ask the attendant where is Gunnison Beach. He Tells me the last one on this road. There are signs posted and are as clear as the nose on your face, Again I'm not in the present and don't really read all the information on the posted signs. We find the Beach, park the car, walk over the Sand Dunes and "WA LA" we are at the Largest Nude Beach in the Northeast. There were two attractions at the beach that day, me and Annie, and a Wedding. You see I was the old guy with the swim trunks and a dog, everybody had to come over and pet Annie and ask questions. I have no opinion on nudists, they all were very nice. It was the circumstance that I found myself in for not paying attention. I laughed hard all the way home at the end of the day. PS I did stay, did keep my trunks on and enjoyed myself. My wife is still laughing at me, how my head is always in the clouds. (But she said "when are you going again") go figure. LOL!

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Posted : June 22, 2008 1:05 pm
Trade
(@Trade)
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LOL at Lizard. Glad Annie was so popular!

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Posted : June 22, 2008 6:05 pm
Trade
(@Trade)
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By the way, is it full moon time? :-X

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Posted : June 22, 2008 9:04 pm
Lizard
(@Lizard)
Trusted Member

Trade,
I hope not, I have seen enough moons for awhile LOL!

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Posted : June 22, 2008 11:27 pm
dougtamjj
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Expert

Lizard I am cracking up remembering my own experience with nudist. Hubby and I were on our honeymoon in Florida and he thought we should drop by and see his parents who were nudist living in a nudist camp. All the way there I kept saying I do not want to see your parents naked and I will not take off my clothes. Long story short we got to the camp, a bunch of old naked people and after a couple of drinks I threw my clothes to the wind. Woke up the next morning and said get me out of here. I never returned to the camp and eventually his parents started wearing clothes. I could not, however get the image out of my mind of seeing his parents naked. Totally traumatized me.

One of my rotties was the same way about swimming. I did the life jacket thing too. Eventually she started swimming and now loves the water. Could be because she is such a fat girl that she feels light in the water.

I haven't been reading the message board much because my daughters are visiting. I looked at it today and could not believe how many posts there were. It will take me a week to read them all. They are leaving on Wednesday and I already feel sad. Pregnant daughter is so cute with her little baby bump. Everyone has felt the baby kick but me. I keep missing it. I am going to crawl in bed with her tonight and keep my hand on her tummy. It is so weird to have girls in the house. All 3 of my girls are here. I walked in the other day to see them all crying hysterically over a movie. They are doing nails and hair. Borrowing clothes, mostly mine. They giggle, flip their hair, cuddle and giggle some more. It is so weird. On their own they are not girlie girls. Daughter # 1 was racing up the hills on the motorcycle with her daddy earlier. Daughter #2 can fix just about anything on her car by herself. Daughter #3 is a professional ballerina and a little bit sissy but is a whiz with electronics.Put them all together and it is just mush. The girls left home first so I have had about 3 years with just the boys and then we adopted JJ. So our house has been testosterone city for quite a while.

Good night all. Another day in paradise.

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Posted : June 24, 2008 3:27 am
Trade
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Expert

Your daughter is a pro ballerina? Amazing.

Picking up my Rotary coupon book this weekend. Lots of 2 for 1 coupons at many of my favorite restaurants so I hope you all will get one. One or two lunches will pay for the book & you'll still have free meals left over.

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Posted : June 25, 2008 10:24 am
trw
 trw
(@trw)
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hey everyone,the storm the other night was the best i've seen and heard in along time, i think i have to put all my veggies in the ground within the next week cause they all just shot up and got huge on me,i've been picking up some shifts at paradise and you know i kinda like the place and the owner just leaves me alone and lets me do my job. Great story Lizard

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Topic starter Posted : June 26, 2008 2:40 am
Trade
(@Trade)
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trw, how do you keep the critters from eating your garden?

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Posted : June 26, 2008 9:17 am
trw
 trw
(@trw)
Expert

well so far i've chased out one land crab,and i killed a bunch of the big caterpillars that i thought that one time were monarchs but were not before they could eat anything,(just spray em with off),i honestly don't know what to do once they are in the ground,(Beachy?) I was'nt ready to deal with this yet and it rained again last night here and i'm up because someone was knocking at the door about 20 mins ago and the dogs were going nuts but i never looked to see who it was and LOL they went away so i have no idea, and i just got up.

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Topic starter Posted : June 26, 2008 10:32 am
trw
 trw
(@trw)
Expert

hey Trade,i was having lunch one day last week and chucky and her husband came in and demanded to sit at a table that apparently had been reserved for someone else and LOL the waitress who is also a teacher at central told her to basically f off,that she was nobody anymore it was truly a funny moment and you know no one will be naming a cruise ship dock after her now, and she just stomped out.

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Topic starter Posted : June 26, 2008 3:00 pm
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