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janeinstx
(@janeinstx)
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Posts: 656
March 31, 2013 8:07 pm  

"Want robberies to stop? How about working with the young men to give them a sense that there is hope for them in this dismal economy, "
The victims fault? What a novel idea.


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JahRustyFerrari
(@JahRustyFerrari)
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Posts: 258
March 31, 2013 8:08 pm  

"Want robberies to stop? How about working with the young men to give them a sense that there is hope for them in this dismal economy, "
The victims fault? What a novel idea.

OK...why don't we just shoot at them then....


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janeinstx
(@janeinstx)
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March 31, 2013 8:10 pm  

Shooting them will solve nothing. All they really need is hug and someone to tell them nothing is their fault and their actions are justified. They are the true victims.


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JahRustyFerrari
(@JahRustyFerrari)
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Posts: 258
March 31, 2013 8:13 pm  

I know and you know JahRustyFerrari that the majority of the people that live on ST Croix do not feel safe. The Civil authorities have lost control of the crime on the island. My opinion it's not underlying anger as you so state. ( it's just lazy and wow is me attitude) also no fear for because no consequence. What level of dialogue are you referring that most people can't stomach. You my friend enable the criminal by the blame game. Don't tell me it's safe to go to the beach and leave your car unlocked. walk on the boardwalk when it's dark, go to a restaurant and get robbed. Now you talk about an event that will rival past events in intensity. You're an enabler.

"( it's just lazy and wow is me attitude")

yeah...we know how lazy those people are....

YOU are the enabler, because you refuse to start any kind of dialogue that does not line up with your views.

BTW, I go to the beach and leave my car unlocked all the time, and we "locals" are currently spending our Easter break on the same beaches that you are so afraid of...and we stay there all night, and we don't lock our tents.

That's how "unsafe" we feel...we spend a week camping at the beach every year, and have done so for decades/


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rotorhead
(@rotorhead)
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Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 2457
March 31, 2013 8:22 pm  

Oh, come off it, already!

The Aryan Brotherhood just murdered a prosecutor AND his wife in their home in Texas...this is believed to be tied to the other murders of prosecutors on the same team. Fourteen .223 rifle cartridges were found, so someone had no qualms about shooting a couple in their sixties at least seven times each...that, my friend, is violence.

Texas is much more violent than STX...along with Atlanta, Detroit, LA, etc.

You actually want people to believe that you are "safer" in LA or Detroit than on STX??? ROFLMAO.

Want robberies to stop? How about working with the young men to give them a sense that there is hope for them in this dismal economy, in which their job prospects are becoming more and more controlled by people who have an inherent dislike for them?

You can't solve crime with guns. You have to get to the root, which nobody on this board has the cojones to do. Why would three young men rob a restaurant? Did they need money to buy drugs, or to feed their families, or both? Maybe they had jobs, and were terminated for one reason or the other. You'd be amazed at the number of questionable terminations that are happening on this island. You may terminate a perfectly nice person from their job, while having no clue as to the character of their brothers, uncles, sons, etc...

Not saying that Dashi's was hit because of that, but there are issues in this community which need to be seriously discussed in an open forum where everybody can be heard. You will solve more by talking than by shooting guns at people.

Unless the root issues are addressed, which would involve dialogue on a level that most people cannot stomach (until it is way too late), you are going to witness an event on this island which will rival past events in intensity. The underlying anger issues must be addressed, and soon...and not by armed restaurant patrons either.

You are delusional!

Factual Data.
"The territory's 2012 rate of 56 homicides per 100,000 people is also among the highest in the world, according to 2011 figures from the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime. The U.N. statistics track only "intentional homicide," defined as any "unlawful death purposefully inflicted on a person by another person." Removing vehicular homicides from the Virgin Islands' rate to adjust for that difference, the territory's rate would be at 50.4 in 2012.
The only countries with clearly higher rates were Honduras, with 91.6 homicides per 100,000 people in 2011, and El Salvador, with 69.2 homicides per 100,000 people in 2011, according to the U.N. data. The territory's rate also would be in the same ballpark as Cote d'Ivoire, which last reported a homicide rate in 2008, at which point it was 56.9 per 100,000 people."

http://virginislandsdailynews.com/news/v-i-homicide-rate-still-among-world-s-highest-1.1434291

All figures are per 100,000
Atlanta 20.7
Detroit 48.2
LA 7.7
Seattle 3.2
Memphis 17.9
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_cities_by_crime_rate

So let's look at the numbers. The only one of the cities which I mentioned which even approaches the VI is Detroit. I lived there in the late 1970's, much less violence then. What do the VI and Detroit have in common?

You want people to think that it is not the fault of these young men that they resort to violence. It is societies fault because no one will GIVE them a job. I disagree, it is the fault of a culture(schools and parents) which teaches these young men that violence is an acceptable response to not having things your own way. That instead of trying harder to change your plight it is acceptable to blame someone else and resort to violence.

When you rank the countries of the world by homicides, the USVI is number 8 in the world. We are not the poorest area of the world just one of the most violent. We have a culture of violence here and I believe that it is wrong to not hold these young people who commit crimes accountable for their crimes. VIOLENT CRIME IS UNACCEPTABLE. We should stop making excuses for it.
http://virginislandsdailynews.com/news/top-15-homicide-rates-in-the-world-1.1253003

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
They say there's a heaven for those who will wait
Some say it's better but I say it ain't
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
the sinners are much more fun...
You know that only the good die young.
BJ


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conchadoo
(@conchadoo)
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Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 58
March 31, 2013 8:54 pm  

You said those people?
What are my views?
Nothing gets stolen at the camp site?
Have a nice Easter!


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speee1dy
(@speee1dy)
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Posts: 8750
March 31, 2013 11:04 pm  

also, it is not that easy to fire someone here as you say jahrusty


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Isle Tell Ya
(@Isle_Tell_Ya)
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Posts: 106
March 31, 2013 11:31 pm  

also, it is not that easy to fire someone here as you say jahrusty

This is one of those island myths - it is not difficult at all to fire someone as long as you have a legitimate reason that you have documented in even the slightest manner. The reason why people say it's not that easy is because of the large number of disgruntled, terminated employees who choose to file a claim with the Department of Labor. As long as an employer doesn't mind the hassle, the employer wins the high majority of these Labor cases. The Board, in my experience, does a very good job of dismissing the silly claims. Unfortunately it has become a bit of a rite of passage and knee jerk reaction to file a Labor claim every time someone gets fired.


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rotorhead
(@rotorhead)
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Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 2457
March 31, 2013 11:39 pm  

This is definitely NOT an at-will employment location.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
They say there's a heaven for those who will wait
Some say it's better but I say it ain't
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
the sinners are much more fun...
You know that only the good die young.
BJ


ReplyQuote
speee1dy
(@speee1dy)
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Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 8750
March 31, 2013 11:50 pm  

actually it is not a myth. i know first hand. and no, i can not state the experience


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Isle Tell Ya
(@Isle_Tell_Ya)
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Posts: 106
March 31, 2013 11:56 pm  

There is a 2 page section of the VI Code dealing with termination of at will employees. If you follow it, which is quite simple to do, you will almost always be fine. It is a myth.


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conchadoo
(@conchadoo)
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Posts: 58
April 1, 2013 12:00 am  

Isle Tell Ya,
Where are you getting your stats from or information regarding most employers win?


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rotorhead
(@rotorhead)
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April 1, 2013 12:11 am  

There is a 2 page section of the VI Code dealing with termination of at will employees. If you follow it, which is quite simple to do, you will almost always be fine. It is a myth.

Please provide a link. I searched VIC Title 24 and could not find the terms "at will" or "at-will" a single time, much less two pages.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
They say there's a heaven for those who will wait
Some say it's better but I say it ain't
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
the sinners are much more fun...
You know that only the good die young.
BJ


ReplyQuote
Isle Tell Ya
(@Isle_Tell_Ya)
Advanced Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 106
April 1, 2013 12:33 am  

You're too focused on the meaning of at will, which many states follow. This may help.

WRONGFUL DISCHARGE

The Wrongful Discharge Act (Title 24 V.I.C. 76 et. seq.) is a provision of law which controls the "at-will" employment relations in the Territory. Title 24 V.I.C. 76(a) provides as follows:

(a) Unless modified by union contract, an employer may dismiss any employee:

(1) who engages in a business which conflicts with his duties to his employer or which renders him a rival of his employer;

(2) whose insolent or offensive conduct toward a customer of the employer injures the employer's business;

(3) whose use of intoxicants or controlled substances interferes with the proper discharge of his duties;

(4) who willfully and intentionally disobeys reasonable and lawful rules, orders, and instructions of the employer; provided, however, the employer shall not bar an employee from patronizing the employer's business after the employee's working hours are completed;

(5) who performs his work assignments in a negligent manner;

(6) whose continuous absences from his place of employment affect the interests of his employer;

(7) who is incompetent or inefficient, thereby impairing his usefulness to his employer;

(8) who is dishonest; or

(9) whose conduct is such that it leads to the refusal, reluctance or inability of other employees to work with him.


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rotorhead
(@rotorhead)
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April 1, 2013 12:51 am  

You're too focused on the meaning of at will, which many states follow. This may help.

WRONGFUL DISCHARGE

The Wrongful Discharge Act (Title 24 V.I.C. 76 et. seq.) is a provision of law which controls the "at-will" employment relations in the Territory. Title 24 V.I.C. 76(a) provides as follows:

You use terms too loosely. At-will is a legal term which is recognized by the courts. At-will employment allows for termination of an employee at the will of the employer and does not require that dismissal be for one of the reasons that you site.

You might like to think of the VI Code as at will but that does not make it fit the legal definition.

"At-will means that an employer can terminate an employee at any time for any reason, except an illegal one, or for no reason without incurring legal liability. Likewise, an employee is free to leave a job at any time for any or no reason with no adverse legal consequences."
http://m.ncsl.org/issues-research/labor/at-will-employment-overview.aspx

At will employment does not require building a case. An employer can fire someone simply because they want to fire them. Just as an employee can quit any time they want to quit.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
They say there's a heaven for those who will wait
Some say it's better but I say it ain't
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
the sinners are much more fun...
You know that only the good die young.
BJ


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Isle Tell Ya
(@Isle_Tell_Ya)
Advanced Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 106
April 1, 2013 1:09 am  

Thanks but I'm well versed in this area of law. I've provided how its done in the VI because you asked for the reference. I've also never said the VI was an at-will jurisdiction. What I was attempting to explain to you was that there is a very simple chart to follow in order to fire someone. The Code reference is about as vague as you can get in favor of the employer. That's it for me.


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rotorhead
(@rotorhead)
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Posts: 2457
April 1, 2013 1:40 am  

There is a 2 page section of the VI Code dealing with termination of at will employees. If you follow it, which is quite simple to do, you will almost always be fine. It is a myth.

There are no at will employees in the VI. It sounds like you are saying there are.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
They say there's a heaven for those who will wait
Some say it's better but I say it ain't
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
the sinners are much more fun...
You know that only the good die young.
BJ


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Jamison
(@Jamison)
Trusted Member
Joined: 8 years ago
Posts: 1037
April 1, 2013 5:50 pm  

FWIW, the two minors ran out of Dashi and ran into the cops right away. They then turned on the "adult". The adult is Shorty. He hangs on the board walk. He has jumped two people I know, one of which is a good friend and he beat her up bad. He is garbage, but has family in government, so I'm sure he'll be right back to the boardwalk. He is also the one who robs people by Angry Nates. 99.9% of the people here are great caring people, but because of family, this scumbag will keep doing this until he kills somebody, then maybe he'll get a year in jail to really become dangerous.


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rotorhead
(@rotorhead)
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Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 2457
April 1, 2013 6:19 pm  

I haven't seen anything about this in the local news. I guess this isn't newsworthy.

We should put up pictures of "Shorty" in the establishments along the boardwalk warning people about him.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
They say there's a heaven for those who will wait
Some say it's better but I say it ain't
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
the sinners are much more fun...
You know that only the good die young.
BJ


ReplyQuote
blu4u
(@blu4u)
Trusted Member
Joined: 8 years ago
Posts: 842
April 1, 2013 10:54 pm  

I'm glad no one was hurt. This is such a shame. Armed gunmen storming into crowed resturants doesn't happen in other US resort beach towns loactions: ProvidenceCape Cod. New Port RI, Hamptons, La Jolla, Santa Monica, santa barbara, Kennebunck port, Cape May, San juan isalnds, WA. You bettcha if this type of activity occured elsewhare it would make the local and national news.

Allot of BS goes unreported in the "papers". Seems like unless the cops catch the guy red-handed, investatigations don't lead to convictions (or even arrests). And everybody just "forgets"--many many many unslolved murders each year.


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DonExodus
(@DonExodus)
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Joined: 9 years ago
Posts: 301
April 2, 2013 12:30 am  

I haven't seen anything about this in the local news. I guess this isn't newsworthy.

We should put up pictures of "Shorty" in the establishments along the boardwalk warning people about him.

Did the VIdailynews release a picture of him? Does anyone have a picture of him?


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sheiba
(@sheiba)
Advanced Member
Joined: 8 years ago
Posts: 483
April 2, 2013 2:26 am  

Maybe it didn't happen, maybe just rumor like the horse drowning. (:


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rotorhead
(@rotorhead)
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Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 2457
April 2, 2013 3:15 am  

Made the news.
http://stcroixsource.com/content/news/police/2013/03/31/two-minors-arrested-christiansted-restaurant-robbery

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
They say there's a heaven for those who will wait
Some say it's better but I say it ain't
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
the sinners are much more fun...
You know that only the good die young.
BJ


ReplyQuote
LiquidFluoride
(@LiquidFluoride)
Trusted Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 1937
April 2, 2013 1:28 pm  

A check of the surrounding area yielded a weapon, later identified as a pellet gun. The cell phone was positively identified as belonging to one of the victims.

http://stcroixsource.com/content/news/police/2013/03/31/two-minors-arrested-christiansted-restaurant-robbery

Good thing no one tried to stop them, there could have been a pellet gun shoot out!

There's a lot of bad assumptions in this thread, like private citizens cant handle guns, or they are dangerous, or "shoot outs" will happen. (must be a lot of movie watchers) the fact's just don't line up with those points of view.

They do, prove the oppisite is true, however.

the argument that more private gun ownership will lead to more accidents because the average citizen isn’t sufficiently trained to use a weapon defensively. While gun accidents do occur, the Cato study indicates that they are the most overstated risks. There were 535 accidental firearms deaths in 2006 within a population of almost 300 million people. Although every lost life is tragic, the proportion is not particularly startling.

On the other hand, Newsweek has reported that law-abiding American citizens using guns in self-defense during 2003 shot and killed two and one-half times as many criminals as police did, and with fewer than one-fifth as many incidents as police where an innocent person mistakenly identified as a criminal (2% versus 11%).

Finally, on the subject of public safety, just how well have gun bans worked in other countries? Take the number of home break-ins while residents are present as an indication. In Canada and Britain, both with tough gun-control laws, nearly half of all burglaries occur when residents are present. But in the U.S. where many households are armed, only about 13% happen when someone is home.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2012/02/21/disarming-the-myths-promoted-by-the-gun-control-lobby/2/

There's a lot more out there showing that statistically, a concerned citizen is not only safer than police (accidental shootings etc..) but more effective as well, this is the reality.

There is no easy fix to this problem, I like the idea of people being able to protect themselfs; I've read of too many of these "simple robberies" that turn out with someone dead or beaten.

There was a [URL="http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/abinazir/2011/06/15/what-are-chances-you-would-be-born/"]1: 400,000,000,000,000[/URL] chance of you being born: what have you done with your miraculous life today?


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blu4u
(@blu4u)
Trusted Member
Joined: 8 years ago
Posts: 842
April 2, 2013 2:57 pm  

I don't want to get into a gun v. no gun debate. I'll leave that to those of you in "know". But I will say that becoming "caught in the cross fire" of multiple shooters is no picnic. Just a few months ago there was gun fight on a beach on a sunday. Thugs running down the beach shooting at each other. The violence here is just awful. And it seems to be condoned/accepted by folks from all walks of life. Maybe I hold the minority belief, but I feel if we all stand up (not shut up) we could make change for the better.


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