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rotorhead
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November 18, 2012 11:14 pm  

Other countries also do not consider children of illegal immigrants to be citizens. The US Constitution 14th amendment does not guarantee this either, it is just an interpretation of the courts that could be clarified by congress. This is repeatedly discussed in congress.


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sheiba
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November 18, 2012 11:21 pm  

@ divingirl...how would you have worked 40 hours in addition to the suggested 40 hours while attending college to earn your assistance? Not sure how that would work.


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sheiba
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November 18, 2012 11:44 pm  

My great grandparents "snuck" in a while back and had children, and those children had children. Thank goodness they did or I wouldn't be here. Where did your family sneak in from rotorhead? Unless you are American Indian, we are all foreign immigrants. What a fantastic and wonderful country we live in!


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blu4u
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November 19, 2012 12:03 am  

The difference is Legal v Illegal. Personally I find term "illegal" distasteful because i feel it diminishes an individual's potential value. "UN-documented" is a better label. Depending upon where you come from the procedures/cost/wait for securing the proper documents can vary. The USA has procedures in place for immigration. If an individual chooses to ingor those procedures, then are breaking the laws of our nation. Most of the folks I know who defend "undocumented" immigration also employ "undocumented" house cleaners, gardeners, etc. I firmly believe that the wealthy folks benefit from keeping a study underclass "undocumented" immigrants. Look at all those giant new mega-villas on STJ built by sweat of "un-documented" laborers.


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divinggirl
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November 19, 2012 12:12 am  

@ divingirl...how would you have worked 40 hours in addition to the suggested 40 hours while attending college to earn your assistance? Not sure how that would work.

I never said that I worked 40 hours and went to school 40 hours - that was your assumption. I stated that I worked a 40 hour week took a full credit load. I was a full time student taking full time credits. That did not require 40 hours in school. I wasn't easy and I didn't have much of a social life or sleep much but I did it because I wanted to get a better job and I completed my degree in 3.5 years instead of 5 like many do these days. It worked because I worked at it. That is the point.


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blu4u
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November 19, 2012 12:22 am  

I also worked full time and went to college full time as a young adult. This was not a big deal. Most 20 somethings have alot of energy.
In my 30s I went to grad school full time, worked full time and had two kids under 10 as a single mom. This sucked. It's possible, but I wouldn't recommend it. It was really hard on my kids.


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rotorhead
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November 19, 2012 12:36 am  

My great grandparents "snuck" in a while back and had children, and those children had children. Thank goodness they did or I wouldn't be here. Where did your family sneak in from rotorhead? Unless you are American Indian, we are all foreign immigrants. What a fantastic and wonderful country we live in!

Cute answer however no one was considered a citizen of the US until the adoption of the constitution. The American Indians were also immigrants. They arrived via the Ice Bridge across the Bering Sea during one of the last Ice Ages. Their DNA shows that they are descendants of the Mongols from central Asia. Are the first humans to arrive at any geographical area to be considered the owners of that land for ever or is it a requirement that they are able to defend their ownership. Before Europeans arrived in the Americas, native peoples fought over territory as far back as was recorded. As did Europeans and Asians and Africans. Ownership of territory meant being able to defend that ownership against conquerors

Some of my ancestors were here during the American Revolution, some came later. One of my aunts found this out when she wanted to join the DAR. I am an American Mutt.

The US Constitution Article I, section 8, clause 4 expressly gives the United States Congress the power to establish a uniform rule of naturalization. The 14th Amendment clarifies who is considered a citizen. Most countries feel that they have the right to control immigration into their country. The US is one of the easiest to enter. You should check on immigrating into Mexico. Mexico deals harshly not only with illegal immigrants. It treats even legal immigrants, naturalized citizens and foreign investors in ways that would, by the standards of those who carp about U.S. immigration policy, have to be called "racist" and "xenophobic."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration_in_Mexico

I believe that the US should adopt a policy of reciprocity. Be as harsh with immigrants from various countries as their country is to our citizens who want to move there. The US maintains quotas for immigrants from various countries. Illegals bypass these quotas. Most countries also like to do a criminal background check on immigrants. Illegals bypass these checks. Do you think that we should have an open border policy or are you just being funny?


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gringojj
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November 19, 2012 12:42 am  

People please!

If you go to far off-topic we will run the risk of Oldtart never responding to her so-far baseless claims and THEN we run the risk of her making more baseless claims that she cant back up about new topics in the original thread that has now gone off topic!

To be fair to Oldtart and to give her a fair chance to provide facts and prove that she indeed has the credibility she says she has we need to stay on topic.

You are free to start a new topic at anytime if you want to start a new discussion thanks.


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dougtamjj
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November 19, 2012 1:22 am  

(td)


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poodle
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November 19, 2012 3:57 am  

hmmm. I haven't read all the comments on this topic, but I will tell you of my experience with food stamps. They serve a purpose when needed. I was sick for a while, and had to take a job that paid minimum wage. That netted me less than $1000 per month. My rent was $1000. I put my pride aside, and applied for food stamps, which I received. Thank God! I could barely pay my rent after taxes. Food stamps have their place.


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OldTart
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November 19, 2012 12:32 pm  

It appears that gringo needs further information on why I described the SNAP application as, " It's not a walk in the park by any remote stretch, the processing is rigorous, detailed and humbling, and the relief is minimal - but when you're reduced to circumstances requiring assistance, every little helps". Apparently his experience was indeed a "SNAP" of filling out the paperwork from a download, popping into the office, answering a few questions and shortly thereafter receiving a card "loaded" with benefits. Maybe the STX office isn't as inundated as that on STT or maybe his experience wasn't in the USVI at all but obviously our basic experiences were quite different.

I made a total of four visits, three of which entailed close to three hours of waiting along with scores of other applicants while the caseworkers who were obviously completely overloaded tried to make their way through everyone's applications. Full documentation to support every claim is required from immigration status to proof of income and everything else in between. It was about five weeks after the third visit that a letter came in the mail advising that my application had been approved. At the same time I was eligible for and received through the senior program a deduction of a little under $10 on my basic telephone bill, plus one free tank of cooking gas per year. I hadn't been aware of those small benefits but the caseworker had been kind enough to bring them to my attention. The fourth visit to pick up the card was quick and easy and entailed watching a short video on how the card worked and what it covered, as well as having the card duly registered and put into the system. The benefit of $101/month is for one year, after which time the application is re-evaluated to determine whether circumstances continue to warrant the assistance.

I hope gringo who wanted details and anyone else who may at some time have to go through the procedure finds this helpful.


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speee1dy
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November 19, 2012 3:10 pm  

oldtart, i am sorry that you have been bullied on here. I am also sorry for what you are going through.
Every now and then we all might need some help in the furture or maybe we have needed help in the past. it happens to a lot more people than we think.
the amount you get per month is really not enough to eat all month on. i hope things get better for you.
i find it truly a shame how some people bully, call others names and treat others. disgusting to say the least.. some people think if they bully enough what they say is right and what others say is wrong. and just because people back off of what the bully says does not mean they think you are right, it just means there is more maturity on their side


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Isle Tell Ya
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November 19, 2012 4:18 pm  

oldtart, i am sorry that you have been bullied on here. I am also sorry for what you are going through.
Every now and then we all might need some help in the furture or maybe we have needed help in the past. it happens to a lot more people than we think.
the amount you get per month is really not enough to eat all month on. i hope things get better for you.
i find it truly a shame how some people bully, call others names and treat others. disgusting to say the least.. some people think if they bully enough what they say is right and what others say is wrong. and just because people back off of what the bully says does not mean they think you are right, it just means there is more maturity on their side

THERE'S ALOT OF IMMATURITY ON THIS SITE, FOR SURE, GENERALLY THE RESULT OF NOT BEING AS EDUCATED AS ONE THINKS HE/SHE IS. I FIND IT AMAZING THAT POSTER'S COME ONTO THIS SITE AND ATTACK PEOPLE FOR SPORT. A SHAME.


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blu4u
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November 19, 2012 4:51 pm  

If you are gonna play with fire, then you're gonna get burned.

Putting up close to .25 million posts on-line in public forums like TripAdvisor, CityData, this site and lesser known forums opens the door for critique. Especially when a significant number of said posts contain thinly disguised sarcastic and caustic comments. Also purporting one's self as an "expert" on particular highly subjective topics invites controversy.

for example, as tart pointed out, "rigorous" is a subjective term. Some folks may agree that several trips to a government office and waiting for 3 hours to obtain public assistance is rigorous. Others may believe that the sum total of 12 hours to collect $1362 in aid ($113 per hour) is well worth the hassle. Difference of opinion is not bullying.

I feel bad for Tart and her circumstances. I hope that she is grateful for the assistance given to her in her time of need. I am grateful that part of my hard earned tax dollars help support her and other disadvantaged folks. There is no shame in asking for help. Especially if you accept the assistance with grace and gratitude.


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OldTart
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November 19, 2012 5:27 pm  

Very well, blu4u. Since you feel that, "If you are gonna play with fire, then you're gonna get burned" and since your second paragraph is obviously directed towards me in your continual barrage of sniping as well as your quoted, "thinly disguised sarcastic and caustic comments", let's see how we can do on facts since you've raised the issue.

FACT:

In 5 years on combined and diverse City Data forums I have contributed to date 13,5410 posts.
In 5 years on TA I have contributed to date 5,761 posts.
In 7 years on the VINow forums I have contributed to date 4,349 posts.

That is a total to date of posts on the only forums I contribute to of 23,650 over total 7 years. Rather a far cry from the 0.25 million you've miraculously come up with.

FACT: I have never, not once, professed myself as an "expert" on any subject.

As much as you thoroughly enjoy (for some reason) every opportunity to make snide comments about my legal resident alien status, and reference your comment alluding to this when you say, "I am grateful that part of my hard earned tax dollars go to help disadvantaged folks", I have paid into the US system for over 43 years, No doubt longer and more than you have. I am both very humbled and grateful that in my time of need the system is able to offer me back a little support.


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blu4u
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November 19, 2012 5:53 pm  

Well, so much for the olive branch......


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OldTart
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November 19, 2012 6:39 pm  

Well, so much for the olive branch......

If that post was remotely akin to an "olive branch" I'd hate to see what your burning bush and crown of thorns look like.


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sheiba
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November 19, 2012 11:18 pm  

@ divinggirl...I was not making an assumption. I think I misunderstood. I thought you were saying if someone is receiving assistance.say college grant $, they should work for it. It's all good . We have a difference of opinion, that's all.


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blu4u
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November 20, 2012 12:55 am  

@ divinggirl...I was not making an assumption. I think I misunderstood. I thought you were saying if someone is receiving assistance.say college grant $, they should work for it. It's all good . We have a difference of opinion, that's all.

I don't know how anyone can pay for college these days without some type of grant/scholarship.


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Isle Tell Ya
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November 20, 2012 9:41 am  

Most people for at least the past 30 years pay for college with student loans.


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sheiba
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November 20, 2012 10:23 am  

Yes, I attended college on grants, loans and worked full time to supportyself.
The point I was trying to make is some folks on this board do not believe in government assist, one of them being divinggirl yet she/he mentioned she received grants to go to school. I consider this to be government assist.
I'm out on this one. I feel like I am spinning in circles.


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divinggirl
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November 20, 2012 11:52 am  

Yes, I attended college on grants, loans and worked full time to supportyself.
The point I was trying to make is some folks on this board do not believe in government assist, one of them being divinggirl yet she/he mentioned she received grants to go to school. I consider this to be government assist.
I'm out on this one. I feel like I am spinning in circles.

I never said I do not believe in government assistance - please do not put words in my mouth. How many times do I have to say that I support government assistance but it needs to be qualified? I have a hard time believing that anyone feels the current system is OK with the rampant fraud and abuse.


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vicanuck
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November 20, 2012 12:10 pm  

My oldest kid goes to college in Canada, lives in a nice house downtown not far from school with a few other students and works part time. So far, we've not found the need to take out student loans to keep him there and probably won't as far as I can see.


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blu4u
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November 20, 2012 4:54 pm  

VI C, What's the going rate for a canadian college education?


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sheiba
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November 20, 2012 11:36 pm  

Ok divingirl..whatever you say.Peace!!!!!!


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