The face of the Democratic Party  

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rotorhead
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June 12, 2014 2:01 am  

When Obama took office in 2008, we had a democrat in the white house and both houses of congress were controlled by the democrats. They could have done virtually anything that they wanted. And they passed Obama care! Why did they care more about the insurance companies than the American people? Why not a single payer system? Get rid of the insurance companies. I wonder how much money from insurance companies was pumped into democratic campaigns?
http://www.pnhp.org/facts/what-is-single-payer

Don't worry though. Our president told us that Obamacare would decrease our insurance premiums by 3000%. He also said that he had been to all 57 states. Time for a little remedial math?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
They say there's a heaven for those who will wait
Some say it's better but I say it ain't
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
the sinners are much more fun...
You know that only the good die young.
BJ


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rotorhead
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June 12, 2014 2:18 am  

More wack jobs from the democratic party.

"Tea Party'ers are the same group who fought for segregation during the Civil Rights movement. It is the same group we faced in the South with those white crackers and the dogs and the police. They didn't care about how they looked." ~ Charlie Rangel (D) New York

Charlie Rangel: Tea Party Is ‘Same Group’ Of ‘White Crackers’ Who Fought Civil Rights

Really, history must have been recently changed... because my recollection is that it was the republicans who fought for civil rights while democrats voted against it. Next thing you know they'll claim Lincoln was a democrat.

And, just a thought... isn't calling someone a 'cracker' considered racist? Isn't that equivalent to the N word?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
They say there's a heaven for those who will wait
Some say it's better but I say it ain't
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
the sinners are much more fun...
You know that only the good die young.
BJ


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noOne
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June 12, 2014 3:53 pm  

Rotor, I think pretty much everyone stands with cigarette laws that have been coming about. I don't think that is a partisan issue.

Illegal immigration is so popular with the Mexicans because of all the business owners (from what I understand, these are usually Republican, right?) who hire them under the table. The solution is simple: crack down on the employers.

Obamacare was screwed by not having a single payer option, IMO, but I think it was slightly more of the fault of both parties. After all Wiener did champion single payer, eventually bowed to Obama on single payer, and was taken down by the right for sending picks of his dick to some girl...

Yeah Rangel is a racist. Both sides have them.

As far as civil rights:

What you might not know about the 1964 Civil Rights Act [via CNN]

"Most people don't realize that today at all -- in proportional terms, a far higher percentage of Republicans voted for this bill than did Democrats, because of the way the Southerners were divided," said Purdum.

The division was geographic. The Guardian's Harry J. Enten broke down the vote, showing that more than 80% of Republicans in both houses voted in favor of the bill, compared with more than 60% of Democrats. When you account for geography, according to Enten's article, 90% of lawmakers from states that were in the union during the Civil War supported the bill compared with less than 10% of lawmakers from states that were in the Confederacy.

And as far as Lincoln:

Why Did the Democratic and Republican Parties Switch Platforms?

During the 1860s, Republicans, who dominated northern states, orchestrated an ambitious expansion of federal power, helping to fund the transcontinental railroad, the state university system and the settlement of the West by homesteaders, and instating a national currency and protective tariff. Democrats, who dominated the South, opposed these measures. After the Civil War, Republicans passed laws that granted protections for African Americans and advanced social justice; again, Democrats largely opposed these expansions of power.


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noOne
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June 12, 2014 4:10 pm  

Yeah as far as the civil war it was the North's industrialists that pushed for civil war; civil rights was an excuse and it was really about finances.


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speee1dy
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June 12, 2014 4:28 pm  

noone, why is it business owners are republicans?


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noOne
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June 12, 2014 4:55 pm  

I dunno:

Does running a business turn you into a Republican?

A July poll by Gallup showed 59 percent of business owners (not necessarily small-business owners) disapproved of President Barack Obama's job performance. More than half the owners surveyed identified themselves as Republicans or right-leaning independents, while 32 percent were Democrats or left-leaning independents.


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speee1dy
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June 12, 2014 5:57 pm  

does it go on to state why they are republicans?


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rotorhead
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June 12, 2014 6:01 pm  

noone, why is it business owners are republicans?

Because they have a better work ethic than most democrats. They are willing to invest their own capital, take a risk, work hard and build a business. They don't just sit around and wait for someone to "give" them a job. They call it a "Protestant Work Ethic", I like to think that religion is not necessary for hard work. Also I have many Asian and Middle Eastern friends who work hard, own their own businesses and are not protestants.

People who work hard over a long period of time to build up a business typically do not like a president who comes along and tells them that "you didn't build that", you should give half to the people who are waiting for someone to "give" them jobs.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
They say there's a heaven for those who will wait
Some say it's better but I say it ain't
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
the sinners are much more fun...
You know that only the good die young.
BJ


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noOne
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June 12, 2014 6:16 pm  

So you're cool with stuff like this:

Large companies find ways to a zero tax rate

A surprising number of companies in the Standard & Poor's 500, 57, have found ways to pay effective tax rates of zero, according to a USA TODAY analysis of data from S&P Capital IQ.

[...]

The news comes months after after the Government Accountability Office released a report showing that companies in 2010 reported an average effective tax rate of 12.6%, well below the 35% federal corporate tax rate.

What The Top U.S. Companies Pay In Taxes

As you work on your taxes this month, here’s something to raise your hackles: Some of the world’s biggest, most profitable corporations enjoy a far lower tax rate than you do–that is, if they pay taxes at all.

The most egregious example is General Electric . Last year the conglomerate generated $10.3 billion in pretax income, but ended up owing nothing to Uncle Sam. In fact, it recorded a tax benefit of $1.1 billion.

Avoiding taxes is nothing new for General Electric. In 2008 its effective tax rate was 5.3%; in 2007 it was 15%. The marginal U.S. corporate rate is 35%.


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rotorhead
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June 12, 2014 6:32 pm  

You are quite the apologist for the democratic party.

Rotor, I think pretty much everyone stands with cigarette laws that have been coming about. I don't think that is a partisan issue.

Then why aren't more people, including our smoking president calling for them to be made illegal? Hypocrisy? They are not a constitutionally protected right. They are no different than marijuana, except that they kill hundreds of thousands of Americans every year. Our president could use his bully pulpit/executive orders to outlaw them if he really cared about American lives. Instead he picks on guns, a constitutionally protected right. He does not want people to have guns, although he has his own armed secret service detachment so he doesn't need a gun. It's the same with Oprah, anti-gun with two or three armed body guards following her around. What about people who want the same level of security that Obama and Oprah have but can't afford to hire body guards. The police can't protect you everywhere, not enough of them.

Illegal immigration is so popular with the Mexicans because of all the business owners (from what I understand, these are usually Republican, right?) who hire them under the table. The solution is simple: crack down on the employers.

Why not crack down on the employers AND deport illegals when and where you find them? When an illegal alien goes into a school or hospital for services, why not deport them? When an illegal is arrested why not deport them, why just dump them out on the streets in Arizona?

Obamacare was screwed by not having a single payer option, IMO, but I think it was slightly more of the fault of both parties. After all Wiener did champion single payer, eventually bowed to Obama on single payer, and was taken down by the right for sending picks of his dick to some girl...

How is this the fault of both parties? In 2008-2010 the democrats controlled congress and the presidency. They drafted and passed Obamacare over the objections of the republicans.

Yeah Rangel is a racist. Both sides have them.

Maybe so, but try googling "congressman makes racist comments" and see which party gets the most hits.

As for civil rights, the Republicans were the party of the north and the democrats were the party of the south. Republicans were more supporters of civil rights than democrats. You can't rewrite history just because you find it inconvenient.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
They say there's a heaven for those who will wait
Some say it's better but I say it ain't
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
the sinners are much more fun...
You know that only the good die young.
BJ


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rotorhead
(@rotorhead)
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Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 2452
June 12, 2014 6:42 pm  

So you're cool with stuff like this:

Large companies find ways to a zero tax rate

A surprising number of companies in the Standard & Poor's 500, 57, have found ways to pay effective tax rates of zero, according to a USA TODAY analysis of data from S&P Capital IQ.

[...]

The news comes months after after the Government Accountability Office released a report showing that companies in 2010 reported an average effective tax rate of 12.6%, well below the 35% federal corporate tax rate.

What The Top U.S. Companies Pay In Taxes

As you work on your taxes this month, here’s something to raise your hackles: Some of the world’s biggest, most profitable corporations enjoy a far lower tax rate than you do–that is, if they pay taxes at all.

The most egregious example is General Electric . Last year the conglomerate generated $10.3 billion in pretax income, but ended up owing nothing to Uncle Sam. In fact, it recorded a tax benefit of $1.1 billion.

Avoiding taxes is nothing new for General Electric. In 2008 its effective tax rate was 5.3%; in 2007 it was 15%. The marginal U.S. corporate rate is 35%.

Yes. I am cool with it. If they are doing something illegal then charge them. If they are simply taking advantage of tax law to reduce their tax obligations then get over it. They are only doing what the tax law encourages them to do. You are like the people in the VI who complain about the companies who move here to take advantage of EDC benefits then get criticized for not paying their fair share of taxes. Why do you think they came here? Duh!

Did you read my earlier post about the democratic hero John Kerry and his yacht purchase? Corporations and wealthy individuals don't break the law by paying less in taxes they just adjust their incomes and locations to take advantage of the tax law.

The government passes these tax laws in order to influence corporations and the wealthy. For instance, a long term capital gains rate of 15% was put in place to encourage long term investment. This was seen as being good for the country by our congress people.

I am in favor of a national sales tax. Get rid of an income tax. Make everyone pay their fair share!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
They say there's a heaven for those who will wait
Some say it's better but I say it ain't
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
the sinners are much more fun...
You know that only the good die young.
BJ


ReplyQuote
noOne
(@noOne)
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Posts: 1495
June 12, 2014 6:54 pm  

I wouldn't call for tobacco to be illegal, just look at what that has done for any other illegal drug, including alcohol when it was illegal.

As far as guns, there should be background checks, it is just far too easy to get your hands on a gun in the US, and is the reason why we have such a high murder rate. I don't agree with limiting clip size, how much ammo you can buy, what kind of gun (like the newer electronic guns that don't fire unless you have a ring or bracelet) you can buy, etc. I don't know how far over the liberal side of the fence you think I've gone on this, but I think I am more on the conservative side.

I agree with deporting illegals where we find them, but with the one exception of necessary medical care.

We will see how Obamacare fares over the coming years, but I do think it was a mistake by Democrats to not push for single payer.

I don't see how I re-wrote history with the quotes I provided. I think they offer a realistic view of the history of the parties...


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noOne
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June 12, 2014 6:56 pm  

I know they are following the laws using tax loops, I am arguing the laws should be changed so that they do pay a fair amount of tax. Seriously, GE gets a tax benefit?


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rotorhead
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June 12, 2014 7:04 pm  

I know they are following the laws using tax loops, I am arguing the laws should be changed so that they do pay a fair amount of tax. Seriously, GE gets a tax benefit?

They do pay a fair amount! The minimum that they are obligated to pay.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
They say there's a heaven for those who will wait
Some say it's better but I say it ain't
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
the sinners are much more fun...
You know that only the good die young.
BJ


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rotorhead
(@rotorhead)
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Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 2452
June 12, 2014 7:08 pm  

I agree with deporting illegals where we find them, but with the one exception of necessary medical care.

Aren't they still illegal when they get medical care? I say treat them then deport them. If they are afraid to come in then let them go home for medical care.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
They say there's a heaven for those who will wait
Some say it's better but I say it ain't
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
the sinners are much more fun...
You know that only the good die young.
BJ


ReplyQuote
noOne
(@noOne)
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Posts: 1495
June 12, 2014 7:12 pm  

Yeah I'd agree with treating them for immediate needs then deporting them when they are stable.


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rotorhead
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June 12, 2014 7:17 pm  

Yeah I'd agree with treating them for immediate needs then deporting them when they are stable.

You don't sound very much like a democrat on this issue.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
They say there's a heaven for those who will wait
Some say it's better but I say it ain't
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
the sinners are much more fun...
You know that only the good die young.
BJ


ReplyQuote
rotorhead
(@rotorhead)
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Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 2452
June 12, 2014 7:23 pm  

As far as guns, there should be background checks, it is just far too easy to get your hands on a gun in the US, and is the reason why we have such a high murder rate. I don't agree with limiting clip size, how much ammo you can buy, what kind of gun (like the newer electronic guns that don't fire unless you have a ring or bracelet) you can buy, etc. I don't know how far over the liberal side of the fence you think I've gone on this, but I think I am more on the conservative side.

Why don't liberals call for stricter driving tests and stricter auto insurance laws whenever we have a big pileup on the freeways? Cars kill more people than guns. Driving is not a constitutionally mandated right. Why don't we require more driver education, background checks for mental and physical abilities before issuing drivers licenses?

If onerous gun laws helped then Chicago is the safest city in the country. And the USVI would have no gun laws. Your comment above about the effectiveness of making tobacco illegal apply to guns as well.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
They say there's a heaven for those who will wait
Some say it's better but I say it ain't
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
the sinners are much more fun...
You know that only the good die young.
BJ


ReplyQuote
rotorhead
(@rotorhead)
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Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 2452
June 12, 2014 7:31 pm  

I know they are following the laws using tax loops, I am arguing the laws should be changed so that they do pay a fair amount of tax. Seriously, GE gets a tax benefit?

Then why keep blaming the corporations and the wealthy. Why not blame congress and the president? The corporations are paying what they are obligated to pay. Do you think that they should voluntarily pay more? What about people who live here and pay no income tax, about 47% of the country. Don't they have an obligation to contribute to the country as well?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
They say there's a heaven for those who will wait
Some say it's better but I say it ain't
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
the sinners are much more fun...
You know that only the good die young.
BJ


ReplyQuote
noOne
(@noOne)
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Posts: 1495
June 12, 2014 7:37 pm  

If onerous gun laws helped then Chicago is the safest city in the country. And the USVI would have no gun laws. Your comment above about the effectiveness of making tobacco illegal apply to guns as well.

Yeah the gun laws in the USVI are too restrictive for legitimate gun owners, IMO, and they don't enforce the laws for gun violations well enough.

Then why keep blaming the corporations and the wealthy. Why not blame congress and the president?

I do blame congress and the president.

What about people who live here and pay no income tax, about 47% of the country

That's a Fox News quote. Including the elderly, children, disabled, vets, etc, etc, etc that are not illegal in anyway - which seems to be important to you.


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rotorhead
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June 12, 2014 7:47 pm  

I do blame congress and the president.

What about people who live here and pay no income tax, about 47% of the country

That's a Fox News quote. Including the elderly, children, disabled, vets, etc, etc, etc that are not illegal in anyway - which seems to be important to you.

And yet I have not seen you blame congress and the president in your earlier statements. Only corporations and the wealthy.

No they are not illegal in any way, and neither are the corporations and the wealthy. And no, this is not a Fox News quote.

The rich already pay virtually all of the income taxes.
http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=3505

Notice that you keep bringing up Fox News. I haven't accused you of getting your talking points from MSNBC. I read a lot, from a lot of sources.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
They say there's a heaven for those who will wait
Some say it's better but I say it ain't
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
the sinners are much more fun...
You know that only the good die young.
BJ


ReplyQuote
noOne
(@noOne)
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Posts: 1495
June 13, 2014 12:35 am  

Yeah I'll agree that small business owners are overly hit by the laws of the US, especially compared with a lot of large companies. I have a distinct problem with GE not paying any taxes at all, and that falls in the lap of congress and the president.

The rich may pay the bulk of taxes, but they take almost all the money. This country is quickly turning into two classes, those with and those without.


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divinggirl
(@divinggirl)
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June 13, 2014 11:09 am  

but they take almost all the money. This country is quickly turning into two classes, those with and those without.

"take almost all the money" - they work for it (unless they are trust fund babies and many of them have to work for it too).
Those "without" are typically the ones who are actually "taking" the money without working for it. I firmly believe that, unless you are physically incapable of work, you should be working. If you collect a welfare check you should provide 40 hours of work a week. One of the biggest problems this country faces is the lost work ethic. When did "work" become a four letter word?


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CruzanIron
(@cruzaniron)
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June 13, 2014 12:12 pm  

The rich may pay the bulk of taxes, but they take almost all the money.

And they do what with it? Stuff mattresses? No, they SPEND it, which is what
keeps thje economy going through job creation.


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speee1dy
(@speee1dy)
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June 13, 2014 12:48 pm  

well, i have nothing new to add. rotor did a fine job


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