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Banning Corporal Punishment

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jwsommer
(@jwsommer)
Advanced Member

If you don't think teachers should hit students, please sign and share the following petition in support of Judi Buckley's bill to ban corporal punishment in USVI public schools:

http://www.change.org/petitions/30th-legislature-of-the-united-states-virgin-islands-pass-bill-30-0136-to-ban-corporal-punishment-in-the-usvi-public-school-system?share_id=IWGlkWMOnv&utm_campaign=share_button_action_box&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=share_petition&ref=nf

I personally had a heartbreaking conversation with a sweet and polite West Indian 2nd grader yesterday, who told me, "My teacher, she don' even like chi'ren. She done hit me all de time."

((Anyone surprised that these sweet little boys are growing up to be violent angry men?! Let's tackle our problems before they start!))

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Topic starter Posted : February 5, 2014 7:35 pm
CruzanIron
(@cruzaniron)
Expert

Where is the link to the petition FOR corporal punishment? 🙂

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Posted : February 5, 2014 7:37 pm
mtdoramike
(@mtdoramike)
Trusted Member

You are kidding right? The problem with children today is there isn't enough corporal Punishment. If I told my parents I got a spanking in school, I would get another one when I got home. Blame angry men on just being down right mean, lack of a second parent in the home, watching rich people squander money like it grows on trees and then blame them for wanting the same thing, but without working for it because like the left has been brain washing children for decades that they don't have to work for anything, uncle sugar will come along with that hind tit.

But no, it isn't from getting a spanking in school. If you don't like corporal punishment in the school, home school your kid.

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Posted : February 5, 2014 11:10 pm
JulieKay
(@JulieKay)
Trusted Member

Corporal punishment is wrong. Kids can be disciplined without hitting them. Do you hit other people when you disagree with them?

All corporal punishment does is teach that violence is okay in certain selectively "constructive" situations - chosen at the whim of the adult. I've seen kids get beat because they ate a carrot that their Dad was keeping for dinner - is that okay? Or kids getting beat in school for asking questions and the teacher is burned out? Is that okay?

And the concept of corporal punishment in the Caribbean is nauseating. I've seen the videos going around of kids getting "licks" with the belt from their father. It's pure child abuse, and it is terrifying and heartbreaking to watch. Children begging and screaming for their daddies to stop - some of them winding up in the emergency room, where the eyes just look the other way.

All corporal punishment does is teach kids to be angry and shut up. Which is a lot of the problems we have these days - angry young men and women that have been beat down.

I've seen way more kids these days growing up positive and healthy and well-disciplined - including self-discipline, which corporal punishment does not teach - in families and environments that do not use corporal punishment as a "teaching tool."

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Posted : February 5, 2014 11:24 pm
Yearasta
(@Yearasta)
Trusted Member

To the advocates of corporal punishment...If I dont hit my kids are you saying its ok for someone else to hit them?

When you use corporal punishment to get compliance from a child, at what point do you tell them...now only I can do this and when you are out on the playground and you want Timmy's truck you cant hit him to get it, ok?

And at what point do you tell them its ok now but when you grow up and your souse doesnt comply...you cant hit them.

Times have changed since we were spanked in schools, it's banned in the military, prisons and on animals...so yes it's illegal to hit soldiers, prisoners and animals...but we let our children be hit(I'm not saying remove it from the homes)....yea lets teach them that getting physical is the way to go...oh wait check the murder rate...they already know!

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Posted : February 5, 2014 11:56 pm
sheiba
(@sheiba)
Advanced Member

Signed. Thank you for posting.
It is difficult for me to even comprehend that this issue is up for argument.

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Posted : February 6, 2014 12:10 am
luvstx
(@luvstx)
Active Member

Signed as well.
I'm sorry to hear that this goes on....I was naive not to realize that it did.

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Posted : February 6, 2014 12:23 am
Yearasta
(@Yearasta)
Trusted Member

we aren't the only ones...still legal in 19 states...the red ones

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Posted : February 6, 2014 12:25 am
WavesNC
(@WavesNC)
Advanced Member

So very important, and signed. I can't Imagine someone asking for a license for non relatives (or anyone) to hit a child, but I understand the ignorance. I myself may have felt that lack of parenting skills was the reason for misbehavior a few short years ago. I have successfully (and fairly easily) raised two good men, and might have been one of those people who could consider myself a better parent. Seven years ago I gave birth to my third son, and the experience has been eye opening. It is not my lack of parenting skills, but the way my child was born (environmental factors and all) that have made him difficult. Hitting is not the answer, and just makes things exponentially worse. If my child were subject to corporal punishment, I have no doubt prison would be in his future. Instead, every day is a huge challenge to motivate and demonstrate loving kindness, and my child has issues, but he is sweet, and I have confidence that with all the energy I put into him, and l the support I have, he will be a productive member of society. Hitting is for those that have no other tools than brute strength.

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Posted : February 6, 2014 12:30 am
jwsommer
(@jwsommer)
Advanced Member

Thank you, Sheiba, JulieKay, Yearasta, and any others who have signed and shared this petition.

Mtdoramike -- Have you seen corporal punishment in the schools here before?

We are NOT talking about a spank on the butt for unacceptable behavior (and don't think I'm a softie on discipline, because I'm absolutely not!).

We are talking about a hard slap in the face for not saying an answer fast enough. A punch to the head for stepping out of line. A smash against the wall for talking during quiet time.[In front of peers, in a hateful and ridiculing manner. /b]

Check out the petition and look at some of the alarming statistics comparing states who do and do not allow corporal punishment.

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Topic starter Posted : February 6, 2014 12:35 am
susan56
(@susan56)
Advanced Member

Grew up in the 60's. Had nuns for my teachers who my parents would never question regarding discipline!

I don't condone beating children....but I will say I knew when to shut up!!!

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Posted : February 6, 2014 12:35 am
Yearasta
(@Yearasta)
Trusted Member
JulieKay
(@JulieKay)
Trusted Member

So very important, and signed. I can't Imagine someone asking for a license for non relatives (or anyone) to hit a child, but I understand the ignorance. I myself may have felt that lack of parenting skills was the reason for misbehavior a few short years ago. I have successfully (and fairly easily) raised two good men, and might have been one of those people who could consider myself a better parent. Seven years ago I gave birth to my third son, and the experience has been eye opening. It is not my lack of parenting skills, but the way my child was born (environmental factors and all) that have made him difficult. Hitting is not the answer, and just makes things exponentially worse. If my child were subject to corporal punishment, I have no doubt prison would be in his future. Instead, every day is a huge challenge to motivate and demonstrate loving kindness, and my child has issues, but he is sweet, and I have confidence that with all the energy I put into him, and l the support I have, he will be a productive member of society. Hitting is for those that have no other tools than brute strength.

(I added the bold). 🙂

My daughter is the same - when she was a toddler, I spanked her - because I was spanked. But all it did was make her angry. Maybe a parent who believes in corporal punishment would say, oh well, her problem, and leave her be. But I didn't. I realized I needed to talk to her - and listen to her (and really listen, not just filtered "parental listening") - and explain to her why her behavior was wrong, and what she needed to do for good behavior. The vast majority of the time she complied without any additional discipline, but when she needed it she got it, primarily in the form of denied pleasures and privileges. She is now a freshman in high school and a great kid, AP honors classes and a leader in her school - and she is confident in ways that I don't think she would be if I'd settled for just beating her until she complied with my orders.

I remember as a girl being spanked, and being so upset because my parents just wouldn't listen to me - if we could have talked things would have been different. Children are not imbeciles to be shaped and molded - they are human beings born with their own personalities and ability to reason and communicate. The fact that they take time to develop physically should not be an excuse to take the easy out of just slapping them into submission.

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Posted : February 6, 2014 12:51 am
JulieKay
(@JulieKay)
Trusted Member

Thank you, Sheiba, JulieKay, Yearasta, and any others who have signed and shared this petition.

Mtdoramike -- Have you seen corporal punishment in the schools here before?

We are NOT talking about a spank on the butt for unacceptable behavior (and don't think I'm a softie on discipline, because I'm absolutely not!).

We are talking about a hard slap in the face for not saying an answer fast enough. A punch to the head for stepping out of line. A smash against the wall for talking during quiet time.[In front of peers, in a hateful and ridiculing manner.][ /b]

Check out the petition and look at some of the alarming statistics comparing states who do and do not allow corporal punishment.

It pains me just to read this, yet I know it is true because I have seen it. I have seen children thrown into shelves in Plaza, pulled up by their hair, and thrown on the ground while they scream and beg for their parents to stop. I never said anything because it is a parental right in the USVI. But it shouldn't be. And it definitely shouldn't be in the schools.

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Posted : February 6, 2014 12:53 am
mtdoramike
(@mtdoramike)
Trusted Member

When I was in the first grade back in the late 50's, I had a severe stuttering problem. I was held back a year because there was another 1st grade teacher who thought she could cure my problem. I would get a minimum of 2-3 spankings a day. She would do what she called round robin reading and each one of us would have to stand up and read. When it got to be my turn, I would start stuttering, the teach would stop me and grab my arm and haul me off to the bathroom where she would spank me with a wooden paddle. I cried for the first week, but after that I became immune to the spankings. But after about two weeks, the other children would start crying when it got to be my turn to read and each time I would get hauled off to the bathroom and spanked and then around the room it would go until it got to be my turn again. They had my parents convinced that it was for the best. But it didn't work, I eventually grew out of it by the time I was in the third grade.

So by what everyone who opposes a good old fashioned spanking believes is that I should have turned out to be a psychopath or some ridiculous crap as that. I only spanked my daughter about three times while she was growing up and it was because she did something that was worth a good spanking and like I told her, "it was going to hurt me worse than it would her" and it did. But teaching child right from wrong is a parents responsibility, unlike today where I go to a store or a movie theatre or some public event and there is a child(s) throwing a hissyfit because they couldn't get what they wanted. My daughter (as I did) knew that she had better not embarrass or bring shame to the family or it would be handled appropriately. Yes, spanking is a form of control, which is greatly lost in most schools today.

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Posted : February 6, 2014 1:00 am
JulieKay
(@JulieKay)
Trusted Member

When I was in the first grade back in the late 50's, I had a severe stuttering problem. I was held back a year because there was another 1st grade teacher who thought she could cure my problem. I would get a minimum of 2-3 spankings a day. She would do what she called round robin reading and each one of us would have to stand up and read. When it got to be my turn, I would start stuttering, the teach would stop me and grab my arm and haul me off to the bathroom where she would spank me with a wooden paddle. I cried for the first week, but after that I became immune to the spankings. But after about two weeks, the other children would start crying when it got to be my turn to read and each time I would get hauled off to the bathroom and spanked and then around the room it would go until it got to be my turn again. They had my parents convinced that it was for the best. But it didn't work, I eventually grew out of it by the time I was in the third grade.

So by what everyone who opposes a good old fashioned spanking believes is that I should have turned out to be a psychopath or some ridiculous crap as that. I only spanked my daughter about three times while she was growing up and it was because she did something that was worth a good spanking and like I told her, "it was going to hurt me worse than it would her" and it did. But teaching child right from wrong is a parents responsibility, unlike today where I go to a store or a movie theatre or some public event and there is a child(s) throwing a hissyfit because they couldn't get what they wanted. My daughter (as I did) knew that she had better not embarrass or bring shame to the family or it would be handled appropriately. Yes, spanking is a form of control, which is greatly lost in most schools today.

No one here is claiming spanking turns kids into psychopaths?

It's wrong to hit. Period. It is wrong to be physically violent. Period. I don't need a psychiatric analysis of children here to support those two statements, but I can tell you that the majority of them do not support corporal punishment.

The "I was spanked, and I'm fine!" argument always comes out in these discussions. That doesn't make it okay. It means that person was able to overcome the trauma of being beaten by a parent or teacher - like you did for your stuttering. It was still traumatic, and it shouldn't have happened.

As Yearasta said - times have changed. And that's not a "liberal" statement - that's a human statement. It's time to be better.

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Posted : February 6, 2014 1:05 am
jwsommer
(@jwsommer)
Advanced Member

Mike --

Again, I am not talking about a good old-fashioned Spanking. I was spanked as a child (in a calm fashion, for a serious indiscretion, in an environment where my parents were otherwise loving and caring positive role models). In truth, I spank my own children at times.

I wholeheartedly agree with you on it being a parent's responsibility to teach their children right from wrong, and neither do I find it amusing when parents tolerate misbehavior in public. DISCIPLINE is good, VIOLENCE is bad.

Good teachers have a bottomless toolbox of strategies to elicit behavioral compliance, and physical violence is the least effective of them.

Let's focus on building POSITIVE behavior support!!!!!

Happiness breeds happiness. Violence and ridicule are dead-ends.

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Topic starter Posted : February 6, 2014 1:19 am
Yearasta
(@Yearasta)
Trusted Member

Here's how the bill went first time around...some amendments have been made and it's going back before committee shortly.

http://judibuckley.com/index.php/committee-on-education-workforce-hears-testimony-on-banning-corporal-punishment

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Posted : February 6, 2014 1:58 am
BeachcomberStt
(@BeachcomberStt)
Trusted Member

If one does a search on corporal punishment you will see it has been discussed many, many times.

https://www.vimovingcenter.com/talk/search.php?4,search=corporal+punishment++,author=,page=1,match_type=ALL,match_dates=0,match_forum=ALL,match_threads=

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Posted : February 6, 2014 2:42 am
MGW
 MGW
(@MGW)
Advanced Member

I am not surprised that corporal punishment is more abusive here than those of us... of a "certain age"... remember it from stateside schools.
Agree whole heartedly that a teacher should not hit a child in the face, etc, etc,...

But one of the most shocking things I witness all too often here is this: The terrible treatment of children some parents...cursing at their children, slapping them in the face. I was so shocked at Plaza West one afternoon as 3 generations of women shopped for groceries...the grandmother got angry about something as the daughter and granddaughter stood by the cart. Grandma let loose with more "F-you's" than a fleet of sailors! I was dumbfounded...how does a person do this in public and humiliate their family members? and just a few months ago I briefly witnessed a father punching three small children in the back seat of his car as they waited for their mother to pick up food at a fast food restaurant. It happened as I was backing out of the parking lot...and it happened so quickly. I was frightened by the look on the fathers face and horrified at the thought of these small children being punched for whatever reason...and I knew if the man would hit the children he likely hits the pets, the wife, et al...mom returned to the car...they peeled out of the parking lot before I could even safely turn into the street.

I honestly feel that the biggest problem lies at home with parents...and unfortunately if these same children experience similar from teachers...then its clear to see why the problem of abuse is so pervasive in our islands.

A good caring teacher is the best hope for children coming from dire situations in the home. Where will children learn basic respect and civility if not at home? It should come from school teachers and staff. Then again...the teaching of civic responsibility is CRITICAL for communities if we wish to have order, justice, respect for our neighbors...

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Posted : February 6, 2014 6:42 am
sheiba
(@sheiba)
Advanced Member

we aren't the only ones...still legal in 19 states...the red ones

Yes, is legal in some states but regulated with specific policies in place. For instance, in South Carolina, only the principal is allowed, as a last resort and with parenatal permission. And is rearly used.
Other states is legal on the books but still not used, a very outdated law.
If a teacher ever hit a child in the states, they would likely go to jail and/or be fired.

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Posted : February 6, 2014 10:47 am
CruzanIron
(@cruzaniron)
Expert

Is there a law on the books in VI law that specifically allows corporal punishment?

Is there is not, then why do we need a law to ban it?

Assault is already illegal. Striking a child is assault.

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Posted : February 6, 2014 11:13 am
willy
(@willy)
Active Member

Adults are not allowed to hit other adults and some think it's ok to hit kids. I hope we can see that this is a very short sighted method of discipline

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Posted : February 6, 2014 11:19 am
Yearasta
(@Yearasta)
Trusted Member

@CruzanIron

TITLE SEVENTEEN Education
Chapter 11. Teachers and Other Personnel

17 V.I.C. § 130 (2013)

§ 130. Authority to discipline children

All principals and teachers in the public schools shall have the right to exercise the same authority, as to conduct, and behavior, over pupils attending their schools during the time they are in attendance, including the time required in going to and from their homes, as parents, guardians or persons in parental relations to such pupils.

TITLE FOURTEEN Crimes
Chapter 24. Child Protection

14 V.I.C. § 507 (2013)

§ 507. Reasonable and moderate physical discipline excepted; unreasonable acts

Nothing in this chapter shall be interpreted to prevent a parent, guardian, or person acting at the direction of a child's parent or guardian, from using reasonable and moderate physical discipline to correct, restrain or discipline a child. The following actions are examples of unreasonable conduct when used by any person to correct, restrain or discipline a child:

(1) throwing, kicking, burning, or cutting a child;

(2) striking a child with a closed fist;

(3) willful and violent shaking of a child in such a way as to cause physical injury to the child;

(4) interfering with a child's breathing;

(5) threatening a child with a deadly weapon; or

(6) doing any other act that is likely to cause and that does cause bodily harm greater than transient pain or minor temporary marks.

The age, size, and condition of the child and the location of the injury shall be considered when determining whether the physical discipline is reasonable and moderate. The list of unreasonable actions is illustrative and is not intended to be exclusive.

HISTORY: --Added Oct. 20, 1992, No. 5818, § 1, Sess. L. 1992, p. 157.

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Posted : February 6, 2014 12:27 pm
CruzanIron
(@cruzaniron)
Expert

Thank you.

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Posted : February 6, 2014 12:44 pm
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