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JulieKay
(@JulieKay)
Trusted Member

Cats are obligate carnivores like dolphins, raptors, most amphibians, etc. They cannot obtain nutrition from wheat or grains, those serve primarily as "filler."

Dogs are capable of processing nutrition from grains and produce but are much more digestively predisposed to meats. They do obtain some benefit from having a veg component to their diets though.

Bones are also good for dogs, and have been consumed by dogs from ancient times. However modern breeds don't always have the same capacity to process them as their ancestors, due to trait-specific breeding. I don't give my dogs bones, but I don't disparage those who do. It's a personal choice.

Not sure what homeless dogs and cats have to do with what a person chooses to feed their pets.

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Posted : July 25, 2013 2:31 pm
Saltwatersoul
(@Saltwatersoul)
Active Member

Didn't know my dog food question would turn into a debate lmao:S come in people different folks different strokes...

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Topic starter Posted : July 25, 2013 2:34 pm
Jamison
(@Jamison)
Trusted Member

Well I was a certified nutritionist, who is looking to get his certification back (they expire) and somebody who is a trained dog trainer and has thousands of volunteer hours logged for the PSPCA, ACCT and a few small no kill shelters, I've seen a very large number of dogs, including your favorite breed. I've even done the temperament testing and have had to decide on which dogs are unsafe for other volunteers and have even been to seminars and training programs for that, but you can make yourself believe whatever you want. I'm sure it's all just a conspiracy. Go to pet finder, look for boerboels and see how many are out there. I'm sure there is even enough to have breed specific rescues for them.

There is a facebook page for you. Strange that a breed that has never been put down due to overpopulation, would have a need for a national rescue group for said breed. It's a serious problem and not believing in it, because you don't want to, is what's sad. I guess you feel that your dogs are somehow special, just like pretty much everybody else who breeds dogs in their backyard.

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Posted : July 25, 2013 2:38 pm
JulieKay
(@JulieKay)
Trusted Member

It looks like the conversation has detailed to under the coconut tree.

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Posted : July 25, 2013 2:40 pm
LiquidFluoride
(@LiquidFluoride)
Trusted Member

Well I was a certified nutritionist, who is looking to get his certification back (they expire) and somebody who is a trained dog trainer and has thousands of volunteer hours logged for the PSPCA, ACCT and a few small no kill shelters, I've seen a very large number of dogs, including your favorite breed. I've even done the temperament testing and have had to decide on which dogs are unsafe for other volunteers and have even been to seminars and training programs for that, but you can make yourself believe whatever you want. I'm sure it's all just a conspiracy. Go to pet finder, look for boerboels and see how many are out there. I'm sure there is even enough to have breed specific rescues for them.

There is a facebook page for you. Strange that a breed that has never been put down due to overpopulation, would have a need for a national rescue group for said breed. It's a serious problem and not believing in it, because you don't want to, is what's sad. I guess you feel that your dogs are somehow special, just like pretty much everybody else who breeds dogs in their backyard.

my experience is limited to the north west and Alaska, perhaps I am mistaken but none of my dogs have ever been out on the street, ( I take them back and re home them, only had to do it once in the MASSIVE 20 puppies I've created). And I’ve found Boerboels to be QUITE rare (your Google searches aside.. those skew reality IMO)

Your prejudice and bias is coming through very heavy, we have met and you are not like this in person; but I suppose the internet changes your comfort level eh?

Did I seem like a sleazy "back yard breeder" (a favored term by the biased) BTW, where exactly SHOULD a dog be bred, why is a yard so distasteful for your ilk? Oh and for your information, my dogs were bred in my garage, it’s too cold in Alaska to breed in a back yard 😛

I bred dogs as a hobby to improve the breed as an intellectual exercise to learn about animals, I had two litters and don't plan on having more, I lure coursed my dogs and used them for weight pull and they currently guard my family, my dogs are working dogs.. they have exceptional blood lines but are not overly "special" nor are they my children (I have 4 of those here with me already) your prejudice against me is unfounded and very short sighted.

If you truly are a nutritionalist then what is your take on grains, sugar, inflammation and cholesterol; why would you suggest grains be eaten (ever?) grains (corn, rice, wheat etc etc etc) are not a traditional human food, why do you support them and where does your knowledge come from on this topic.

I have looked into it rather deeply and come to the conclusion that grains are convenient for feeding a large dense population and that's about it, that sugar causes inflammation and Dense HDL cholesterol and inflammation is pretty much the root of most modern disease. (background my mother is a nurse practitioner, OBGYN, homeopathy specialist, Breast feeding consultant and has recently been a “pain management” specialist she lives with me and we consult on these topics quite often)

Instead of calling names and disparaging remarks, how about you offer something useful to this learning exercise (that’s what I see forums as).

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Posted : July 25, 2013 3:20 pm
skighee
(@skighee)
Advanced Member

Go to Pricesmart and get the Kirkland brand for $34 a bag, best made dog food out there for nutrition.

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Posted : July 25, 2013 3:43 pm
Jamison
(@Jamison)
Trusted Member

We've met in person when I was on the clock. I am a nice person in RL and use my real name on here, because I back what I say anywhere, not just on the internet. Like I've said, I've worked countless hours helping, volunteering (have turned down paying positions) in animal rescue and the topic infuriates me and is a sore spot. Your response, no offense, is typical of almost all breeders. Sure, some are better than others, but until we have no need for rescues and shelters, I don't think the term "responsible breeder" is any more realistic for dogs as it would be for unicorns. Sorry if I offended you, but it's a heart breaking topic.

I think grains are good for us in moderation. I think sugar is okay in moderation also. Corn is a major reason people are sick and dieing, but so is the meat industry and the GMO crops people ingest. My hobbie ( and sort of profession) is in food and nutrition and as a mostly life long vegetarian and chef, I've spent most of my 40 years learning about food and health. Some grains are excellent, but the body needs certain combinations of food to help with digestion and insulin production, regardless of our own personal diets.

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Posted : July 25, 2013 3:55 pm
trainwreck82
(@trainwreck82)
Advanced Member

Didn't know my [insert any subject under the sun] question would turn into a debate lmao:S come in people different folks different strokes...

Registered: Yesterday

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Posted : July 25, 2013 4:13 pm
Alana33
(@alana33)
Expert

The idea that it’s natural for dogs to chew on bones is a popular one. However, it’s a dangerous practice and can cause serious injury to your pet.

“Some people think it’s safe to give dogs large bones, like those from a ham or a roast,” says Carmela Stamper, D.V.M., a veterinarian in the Center for Veterinary Medicine at the Food and Drug Administration. “Bones are unsafe no matter what their size. Giving your dog a bone may make your pet a candidate for a trip to your veterinarian’s office later, possible emergency surgery, or even death.”

“Make sure you throw out bones from your own meals in a way that your dog can’t get to them,” adds Stamper, who suggests taking the trash out right away or putting the bones up high and out of your dog’s reach until you have a chance to dispose of them. “And pay attention to where your dog’s nose is when you walk him around the neighborhood—steer him away from any objects lying in the grass.”

Here are 10 reasons why it’s a bad idea to give your dog a bone:

Broken teeth. This may call for expensive veterinary dentistry.
Mouth or tongue injuries. These can be very bloody and messy and may require a trip to see your veterinarian.
Bone gets looped around your dog’s lower jaw. This can be frightening or painful for your dog and potentially costly to you, as it usually means a trip to see your veterinarian.
Bone gets stuck in esophagus, the tube that food travels through to reach the stomach. Your dog may gag, trying to bring the bone back up, and will need to see your veterinarian.
Bone gets stuck in windpipe. This may happen if your dog accidentally inhales a small enough piece of bone. This is an emergency because your dog will have trouble breathing. Get your pet to your veterinarian immediately!
Bone gets stuck in stomach. It went down just fine, but the bone may be too big to pass out of the stomach and into the intestines. Depending on the bone’s size, your dog may need surgery or upper gastrointestinal endoscopy, a procedure in which your veterinarian uses a long tube with a built-in camera and grabbing tools to try to remove the stuck bone from the stomach.
Bone gets stuck in intestines and causes a blockage. It may be time for surgery.
Constipation due to bone fragments. Your dog may have a hard time passing the bone fragments because they’re very sharp and they scrape the inside of the large intestine or rectum as they move along. This causes severe pain and may require a visit to your veterinarian.
Severe bleeding from the rectum. This is very messy and can be dangerous. It’s time for a trip to see your veterinarian.
Peritonitis. This nasty, difficult-to-treat bacterial infection of the abdomen is caused when bone fragments poke holes in your dog’s stomach or intestines. Your dog needs an emergency visit to your veterinarian because peritonitis can kill your dog.
“Talk with your veterinarian about alternatives to giving bones to your dog,” says Stamper. “There are many bone-like products made with materials that are safe for dogs to chew on.”

“Always supervise your dog with any chew product, especially one your dog hasn’t had before,” adds Stamper. “And always, if your dog ‘just isn’t acting right,’ call your veterinarian right away!”

This article appears on FDA's Consumer Updates page4, which features the latest on all FDA-regulated products.

April 20, 2010

http://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/ConsumerUpdates/ucm208365.htm

Here's another link: http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/raw-meat-and-bone-diets-for-dogs-its-enough-to-make-you-barf/

Read the entire article. Below is its summery.

The Bottom Line

The argument that dogs are designed by their evolutionary history to eat raw meat based diets is riddled with errors and fallacies and ignores the impact of tens of thousands of years of domestication and cohabitation with humans on the physiology of our canine friends. The accusations that commercial dog foods are nutritionally inadequate or unsafe are not supported by any objective or scientific evidence, only anecdotes, intuition, and conspiracy theories. There is, in contrast, significant evidence that commercial dog foods are nutritious and healthy and that they have contributed to greater longevity and reduced nutritional and infectious disease morbidity of dogs fed these diets.
The benefits promised by advocates of BARF diets for dogs are numerous. Greater health, less disease, better quality of life, and much more. Dr. Billinghurst’s web site even claims, “Eating bones for a dog is a joyous experience. It is so enjoyed by dogs that it actually of itself boosts their immune system.” However, there is absolutely no scientific evidence to support these claims. BARF proponents have no shortage of opinions and anecdotes to demonstrate the benefits of their diets, but they have a severe shortage of data.

The risks of raw meat based diets, however, are well-documented. Homemade diets and commercial BARF diets are often demonstrable unbalanced and have severe nutritional deficiencies or excesses.16-18 Dogs have been shown to acquire and shed parasitic organisms and potentially lethal infectious diseases associated with raw meat, including pathogenic strains of E. coli and Salmonella.25-27 Many other pathogens have been identified in raw diets or raw meat ingredients, and these represent a risk not only to the dogs fed these diets but to their owners, particularly children and people with compromised immune systems.29-30 The bones often included in such diets can cause fractured teeth and gastrointestinal diseases, including obstructed or perforated intestines, and the FDA recently warned pet owners against feeding bones to their canine companions.
?So with a dodgy theory behind it, no sound evidence of benefits, and clear risks, there is no justification for recommending raw meat based diets for dogs. As always, I remain open to the possibility that new evidence may emerge to document benefits from such diets that might justify the risks they present, but for now this feeding approach appears to be simply another form of CAM mythology supported only by anecdote and unsound logic.

Satisfied LiquidFloride? (no offense)

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Posted : July 25, 2013 4:17 pm
JulieKay
(@JulieKay)
Trusted Member

One question, are any of these arguments going to do anything positive? I mean, are the people making them hoping that they will get other people to change their opinions or behaviors? Because in truth, they won't. People make the choices they make based upon their personal knowledge and experience. My personal knowledge and experience is what determines my viewpoints and decisions, and no one else's. Alana, I can just as easily find and cite arguments the exact opposite of yours, but I choose not to, because it isn't a good use of time for any of us. You have no idea of my background, and I have no idea of yours, but the reality is, people decide what they want to decide about such things, just like paleo eaters vs. vegetarians. No one is "right" in my opinion, and it will be a long time before we truly know if one is more valid than the other. I will not dictate to another human being their choices in such regards.

Live and let live, I say, when a person's behavior doesn't directly affect someone else. If a person feeds their dogs bones and that dog lives 20 years, God bless. If not, same same. It's not my dog.

I also don't see the argument of someone who's worked with thousands of rescue dogs as any more valid than the argument of a breeder who has worked with thousands of responsibly bred and raised dogs, or vice versa. The two aren't exclusive of each other. Why is it so much more important to be right vs. to just coexist? This is the reason I keep leaving these boards, it just doesn't seem valid on an island where we all do much better figuring out how to work together and respecting each other, despite our varied beliefs.

I can't believe these arguments are even happening. It must be a slow day around here.

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Posted : July 25, 2013 4:57 pm
LiquidFluoride
(@LiquidFluoride)
Trusted Member

We've met in person when I was on the clock. I am a nice person in RL and use my real name on here, because I back what I say anywhere, not just on the internet.

Ohh, so you were paid to be nice, I see how it is! 😮

I back up what I say too, in action, life and as much as possible; no other way to live.

Like I've said, I've worked countless hours helping, volunteering (have turned down paying positions) in animal rescue and the topic infuriates me and is a sore spot. Your response, no offense, is typical of almost all breeders. Sure, some are better than others, but until we have no need for rescues and shelters, I don't think the term "responsible breeder" is any more realistic for dogs as it would be for unicorns. Sorry if I offended you, but it's a heart breaking topic.

"responsible breeder" where did that term come from, did I use it? (more of your prejudice showing.. that term is akin to "back yard breeder" in circles that subscribe to a certain type of "group think"), but I understand now that it's an emotional topic, sorry to have triggered you (not that it's my responsibility not to trigger you since I wasn't trying to on purpose; and I don't regret what I said... but i'm sympathetic to your emotive state in this case).

Takes a LOT to offend me and you're nowhere near doing it, no worries (if that's your worry).

I'd hardly consider my 2 litters making me a "breeder" if that's the case then there are thousands of "breeders" on this island, haha... you are quick to label me as such probably due to your "sore spot".

I get that, I work a lot with people on Ego management and emotional triggering, I know that because of your mind set nothing I say would ever change your view on the topic, (frankly I wasn't really trying, just filling out the "other side" a bit of the argument) people can decide for themselves what to believe.

I think grains are good for us in moderation. I think sugar is okay in moderation also. Corn is a major reason people are sick and dieing, but so is the meat industry and the GMO crops people ingest. My hobbie ( and sort of profession) is in food and nutrition and as a mostly life long vegetarian and chef, I've spent most of my 40 years learning about food and health. Some grains are excellent, but the body needs certain combinations of food to help with digestion and insulin production, regardless of our own personal diets.

I'll agree with moderate consumption of grains (which does NOT happen in modern society) sugar too (again, this does NOT happen currently in modern society) why do you pick corn over wheat? I think wheat and corn are the two major issues, rice seems to be an exception in the grain family, somewhat anyway.

humans are definitely each custom models, you clearly have a very insulin resistant body type, probably hard for you to gain weight, I have a very insulin responsive body we each need to find what our bodies respond to and work around that.

There's a great comedy-documentary ( a counter to supersize me, the morgan spurloc vegan propaganda film) called Fat head http://www.fathead-movie.com/ it's made by a comedian / nutritionalist & really covers modern eating very very well ( I highly suggest it to anyone that is interested in how their body works and diet) plus it's at least moderately entertaining.

I found it on Netflix, but i'm sure there are other sources.

The idea that it’s natural for dogs to chew on bones is a popular one. However, it’s a dangerous practice and can cause serious injury to your pet.

That was a very nice Veterinarian add there Alana 🙂

No I'm not satisfied, I won't google up and copy-paste how eating RAW BONES (I don't feed cooked bones) is very excellent and an amazing source of bioavalible calcium, or remind you that dogs are basically wolves, and wolves eat bones. & we won't even mention how good marrow is for them.

Now, I'll caveat this a bit, certain breeds of dogs (anything under 30lbs) I would except from what ever I say just because I don't know about them.. I don't do "toy" dogs, I've only worked with large breed (giant breed I guess they are called) so maybe a shih tzu or a Pomeranian are different (definitely in jaw strength).

I went to the vet a few times before I learned they are basically reject doctors that follow the same allopathic medicine techniques and are corrupted by pharmaceuticals and dog food influences as well.

Blind faith in authority figures is referred to as a Logical Fallacy (Appeal to authority) this is a way of avoiding critical thinking by assuming (with out evidence or personal knowledge) that the authority figure is flawless and knows all.

I attempt to avoid Logical Fallacy as much as possible, so your veterinarian add is not satisfactory 🙂

Here's some good Logic learnin!

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Posted : July 25, 2013 5:04 pm
Jamison
(@Jamison)
Trusted Member

One question, are any of these arguments going to do anything positive? I mean, are the people making them hoping that they will get other people to change their opinions or behaviors? Because in truth, they won't. People make the choices they make based upon their personal knowledge and experience. My personal knowledge and experience is what determines my viewpoints and decisions, and no one else's. Alana, I can just as easily find and cite arguments the exact opposite of yours, but I choose not to, because it isn't a good use of time for any of us. You have no idea of my background, and I have no idea of yours, but the reality is, people decide what they want to decide about such things, just like paleo eaters vs. vegetarians. No one is "right" in my opinion, and it will be a long time before we truly know if one is more valid than the other. I will not dictate to another human being their choices in such regards.

Live and let live, I say, when a person's behavior doesn't directly affect someone else. If a person feeds their dogs bones and that dog lives 20 years, God bless. If not, same same. It's not my dog.

I also don't see the argument of someone who's worked with thousands of rescue dogs as any more valid than the argument of a breeder who has worked with thousands of responsibly bred and raised dogs, or vice versa. The two aren't exclusive of each other. Why is it so much more important to be right vs. to just coexist? This is the reason I keep leaving these boards, it just doesn't seem valid on an island where we all do much better figuring out how to work together and respecting each other, despite our varied beliefs.

I can't believe these arguments are even happening. It must be a slow day around here.

I've watched thousands of dogs die, it has an effect on a person, but they weren't "my dog".

I get my opinion from discussions with people, like this one, attending seminars, working in different fields, schooling and several other places and yes, if you have an open mind and want to learn, then yes, talking to other people will make a difference. At least it should.

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Posted : July 25, 2013 5:15 pm
LiquidFluoride
(@LiquidFluoride)
Trusted Member

I can't believe these arguments are even happening. It must be a slow day around here.

Since this is text, how can you say we are arguing?

I say view this as less of an argument and more of a discussion; sharing knowledge based on your perspective is a great way to learn from others if they counter it, I'm always glad to read interesting facts or bits of knowledge from others; learning never stops!

I don't see anything negative happening here, I'm interested in what people have to say & what they have to share.

I do share your belief that no one here is going to change each other’s minds, it's just not how our brains work

some EXCELENT Neuroscience on how the brain works and WHY people so emphatically defend their side of a discussion:

I highly reccomend watching at least the first 10 min of that video and it's portion on neuroscience.

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Posted : July 25, 2013 5:20 pm
JulieKay
(@JulieKay)
Trusted Member

I do change my opinions over time, based upon input, as all humans do. However no one has yet to twist my arm into changing an opinion, and I think that's rare for most human beings. Arm twisting actually turns off more people than it draws in to a cause.

Again your argument about 1000s of dogs put down and dying has nothing to do with responsible breeding. The two are not exclusive. I am not a breeder nor am I a breeder advocate. I'm just saying the world isn't so black or white. My comment about it being "not my dog" did not refer to animals in shelters, if you read my comment it refers to other responsible owners making their own responsible choices for feeding their pets, which is an entirely different universe from abandoned or feral animals. But your trigger is around those abandoned or feral animals so you can't see much outside of that. It's very clear this is an emotional argument for you.

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Posted : July 25, 2013 5:24 pm
Alana33
(@alana33)
Expert

Just trying to share medicine based info and the science of the facts regarding the myth that raw diets and bones are good for your dogs.
JulieKay is right when she says it won't change the behavior if someone firmly believes it is right to continue this behavior when science dictates otherwise. I hope bone and raw meat diet eating dogs remain healthy and happy, in spite of their owners. Seriously, if there was a slim chance of any of the above listed problems occuring to your dogs due to this, would you not wish to avoid the problems? Good Luck.

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Posted : July 25, 2013 5:30 pm
JulieKay
(@JulieKay)
Trusted Member

🙂

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Posted : July 25, 2013 5:32 pm
LiquidFluoride
(@LiquidFluoride)
Trusted Member

Just trying to share medicine based info and the science of the facts regarding the myth that raw diets and bones are good for your dogs.
JulieKay is right when she says it won't change the behavior if someone firmly believes it is right to continue this behavior when science dictates otherwise. I hope bone and raw meat diet eating dogs remain healthy and happy, in spite of their owners. Seriously, if there was a slim chance of any of the above listed problems occuring to your dogs due to this, would you not wish to avoid the problems? Good Luck.

Well living in fear of something bad happening can be quite limiting, there is a slim chance that I could be hit by a truck when I go out side; but I still do it; I don't feel that my dogs are my slaves, I try not to limit them as much as possible while still being a courteous owner that realizes other people live in this world too.

I know your intentions are good, thanks for sharing what you feel is helpful information 🙂

We as a society have been brought up to believe that everything we are told by an authority figure is ABSOLUTE and correct; reality has shown this is not very often the case.

I think all of us are pretty darn smart when we get out of our own ways, if anyone puts time into a subject and objectively views the topic from as many angles as they can then makes a decision they are doing the best thing possible (and that's really all we can do, since none of us are omnipotent)

I've been living this type of life (objective research) since my first deployment to Iraq taught me a lesson, not everything is what we are told it is, in fact it very well maybe the complete opposite; and this can be (unfortunately) applied to almost every aspect of life.

I think we have done a pretty good job of showing a few sides of a few subjects here, and the great thing about the internet is: this stuff will be here for someone else to learn from or perhaps expand on later.

GO TEAM!

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Posted : July 25, 2013 5:42 pm
Alana33
(@alana33)
Expert

You have the right to make those decisions for yourself but our pets depend on the good or bad choices we make as they are the ones that eventually pay for the wrong ones.

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Posted : July 25, 2013 5:52 pm
Jamison
(@Jamison)
Trusted Member

Again your argument about 1000s of dogs put down and dying has nothing to do with responsible breeding.

If you want a dog, you have two choices. Adopt from a shelter or buy from a breeder.

If you buy from a breeder, the dog in need of adoption doesn't get adopted, which doesn't open a new spot (since they are very limited) and keeps a dog in there.

If you adopt a dog, you save one dog and open a spot for a second dog to be saved, while not supporting and encouraging the breeding of more dogs.

It's pretty simple supply and demand. They work hand in hand. If everybody adopted dgs instead of breeding them, people breeding dogs would be stuck with several unwanted dogfs themselves and be forced to finally spay and neuter their own dogs. If everybody spayed and neutered their dogs, the shelters and rescues would close and not be needed and we would see packs of wild dogs, dead dogs in the streets so often, etc.

See how simple that works?

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Posted : July 25, 2013 5:55 pm
JulieKay
(@JulieKay)
Trusted Member

Except a shelter dog isn't the right choice of dog for every potential dog owner. You may see it that way, and I respect your viewpoint, but it isn't so simple and cut and dry for every person and every situation. I've known many people over the course of my life who have chosen to buy a dog from a breeder because they couldn't find an adoptable dog to fit their needs in a shelter, myself included. That said I would probably only buy/adopt a shelter dog form now on since my living situation has changed.

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Posted : July 25, 2013 6:01 pm
Jamison
(@Jamison)
Trusted Member

Except a shelter dog isn't the right choice of dog for every potential dog owner. You may see it that way, and I respect your viewpoint, but it isn't so simple and cut and dry for every person and every situation. I've known many people over the course of my life who have chosen to buy a dog from a breeder because they couldn't find an adoptable dog to fit their needs in a shelter, myself included. That said I would probably only buy/adopt a shelter dog form now on since my living situation has changed.

I have no idea what that means, considering you can adopt absolutely every kind of animal from various rescues. A dog is for life, it's not a decision you make lightly.

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Posted : July 25, 2013 6:17 pm
LiquidFluoride
(@LiquidFluoride)
Trusted Member

If you adopt a dog, you save one dog and open a spot for a second dog to be saved, while not supporting and encouraging the breeding of more dogs.

well by that logic, then why doesn't everyone go grab a fridge from the junk yard when they need a fridge?

do you own a dog? I've had a few in my life, probably a mix of about 1/3 resscue 2/3 purchased from a local breeder.

Do you know how important the first DAYS of a dogs life is?

All of my dogs went through the Biosensor program, its amazing the kind of dog this produces:

Bio-Sensor (Super Dog) Program

The U.S. Military developed a program in the 1970’s called “Bio Sensor.” (Became publicly know and is often referred to as the “Super Dog” Program.) The program was developed to improve the performance of dogs used for military purposes.

The basic premise of the program is that early neurological stimulation exercises could affect the performance of the dog. The Army’s research revealed that early stimulation of the puppy from the 3rd day through the 16th day influence rapid neurological growth and development.

http://www.northlandboerboels.com/bio_sensor_method.html

My dogs went home trained to sit, trained to wait for food, trained to respect humans, trained at basic recall and HIGHLY socialized.

Some people just desire a superior pet, one that doesn't need rehabilitation.

I charged 1,800 for a PET 2,500+ for a breeding dog; those prices were chosen for a very specific reason... you are not going to just let a $2,000 dog run loose or get taken to the pound, the buyer will be a responsible person ( not based on finances alone, there is also an application and interview to go through) and the personality will be the right for the breed or they won't be purchasing from me.

I know the dogs, I know people, I can match the two; Puppies get picked up from the pound when they are cute & returned later when they are adult and the owners just don't like them anymore, this is because it was an impulse action.

quality breeding changes dogs from an "impulse pick up" to a real commitment.

I think if we had less shelter adoptions and more good breeders we'd have far less strays; and I think the logic behind my train of thought is a bit more sound than yours.

But to each their own; we are fighting the same battle, just from different perspectives.

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Posted : July 25, 2013 6:24 pm
Jamison
(@Jamison)
Trusted Member

First, didn't you brag that your landlord can't come to your house because your dog keeps attacking him? Real trained. Lets hope a neighboring kids ball doesn't land there.

My dog was found under a porch when she was 2 weeks old and bottle fed and she is sweet as can be.

Dogs coming from a shelter don't automatically need training and dogs from breeders aren't automatically good. That's a myth.

Whatever, people can continue to make up their own facts and form opinions. I have to cook for a bunch of kids. I'm done with this.

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Posted : July 25, 2013 6:30 pm
Alana33
(@alana33)
Expert

I'm with Jamison! Too many unwanted animals put to death every yr.
I have never purchased a single dog (or cat), all have been rescues, gifts or adopted me.
They have been great, intelligent, protective, funny, kind and wonderful animals, one and all.
Get a pet from a shelter not a breeder. They need to ban "puppy mills" outright!

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Posted : July 25, 2013 6:31 pm
LiquidFluoride
(@LiquidFluoride)
Trusted Member

First, didn't you brag that your landlord can't come to your house because your dog keeps attacking him? Real trained. Lets hope a neighboring kids ball doesn't land there.
Dogs coming from a shelter don't automatically need training and dogs from breeders aren't automatically good. That's a myth.
Whatever, people can continue to make up their own facts and form opinions.

My dogs have never "attacked" anyone, my dogs won't let him on the property, they stand in front of him and bark; I have family guardians, (guard dogs) not attack dogs.

My dogs LOVE kids or anything smaller than a teenager, they love cats too, lets hope a kids ball doesn't bounce on to the top of a hill on a 4 acre lot above Fsted, cause if it did, that kid would be so jacked on steroids he might eat my dogs for the protein content.....

if I ever said dogs from a shelter automatically need training and dogs from breeders don't (I didn't by the way) I agree with you it is a myth.

Just like everything in this world, proper research is needed before purchase, I tell people NEVER to get a husky no matter HOW cute they think the dogs are because in general those dogs are purpose bred for racing and not many people can handle that level of energy.

over half of my rescues have been great dogs, but a few of them were just a bit "off" and needed some serious work, all of them had socializing issues and didn't pick up commands as fast as I'd like, but I owned them till I buried them anyway.

Dogs from the pound aren't the problem, the people who adopt them often are, among them are the same ones who have no issue putting a dog back in the pound.

My "gist" above was that UNFORTUNATELY the economic status of pound adopters SOMETIMES means they will be a poor owner (not saying it doesn't happen with expensive dogs, I had to re-home one of the 20 puppies, as I said).

Hopefully the spay/neuter programs will work to help reduce strays; but I don't think adopting from the pound will do much really; since no one can absolutely control things like that (taking away the choice of where your pet comes from etc..).

I have to cook for a bunch of kids. I'm done with this.

I have not made anything up, nor have I even presented many "facts" I'm just sharing my perspective, which is allowed to be different than yours.

If you find you are being emotionally triggered by something it's probably best to just not participate, good luck with your cooking!

I'm with Jamison! Too many unwanted animals put to death every yr.

Get a pet from a shelter not a breeder. They need to ban "puppy mills" outright!

yes it is very sad that this happens. & "puppy mills" are terrible, I don't see how people could do that (though it's much like our current mass meat production systems, which is sad too).

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Posted : July 25, 2013 6:47 pm
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