Medical marijuana debate  

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OldTart
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June 26, 2016 9:22 am  

Got a great chuckle from this news article in the Source:
http://stthomassource.com/content/news/local-news/2016/06/25/both-sides-medical-marijuana-debate-make-exaggerated-claims

If I were in need of psychiatric help I would think most carefully before consulting the health professionals in that field who flung out such gross (totally unsupported) misinformation which immediately brought to mind the 1930s movie , "Reefer Madness"!:D

No question the bill needs a lot of work but ...


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rosesisland
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June 26, 2016 11:12 am  

Glad I don't see doctors, Sang, Campbell, or Spencer. I'm still holding on to my above average IQ having first smoked pot 50 years ago. What a joke! Yes, Reefer Madness comes to mind.
Pharmaceutical companies must pay out big to these doctors who oppose a natural healing and legalization of a plant they can't make money from selling. I'd be addicted to pain killers it it weren't for pot.


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Alana33
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June 26, 2016 11:13 am  

There should be a law that no lawmakers may profit directly nor indirectly from the passage of any bill they pass.


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Spartygrad95
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June 26, 2016 11:33 am  

"Natural" cures. Lol. Anecdotes are not evidence. There is some promise in medical marijuana, but those who proclaim it as a panacea and a universal cure are doing a disservice to any actual medical usage for marijuana. It makes me want to kick puppies everytime I hear someone tell me "weed cures cancer and big Pharma is just blocking them". Do you know how much money "Big Pharma" would make from isolating the chemical components that cure cancer from weed (if it existed)? Science has been taking "natural" cures forever and making them consistent and safer. Now I'm all worked up. Guess I need a joint. *disclaimer... I haven't smoked pot in 25 years*


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OldTart
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June 26, 2016 11:55 am  

To the best of my knowledge and before you start kicking puppies, no properly conducted and regulated clinical trials have concluded that marijuana is, "a panacea and a universal cure". Nor is it "anecdotal" that marijuana has proven highly effective in reducing chronic pain as well as reducing the side effects of chemotherapy in cancer patients.


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Spartygrad95
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June 26, 2016 12:04 pm  

You are correct. But if I had a dollar for every person who has told me about a cousin's brother's friend or posts on Facebook, I could buy that 26' Contender I want. There ARE things marijuana has been show to help with, pain and appetite inducing in chemotherapy patients are one. The guise of medical marijuana is silly. Just legalize it because people like to get high. Tax and regulate it like alcohol and stop,the silliness that it is medicine. For that matter, legalize all drugs.


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OldTart
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June 26, 2016 12:11 pm  

If you ever feel like expanding your consciousness I'll be happy to make you up some delicious brugmansia tea. 😀 When that's been done, start reading up on "real" clinical trials. The whole point of the Source news article simply demonstrated that there are ridiculous notions on both sides of the fence but poo-poohing the whole notion of medical marijuana is equally ridiculous.


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Spartygrad95
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June 26, 2016 12:14 pm  

If you ever feel like expanding your consciousness I'll be happy to make you up some delicious brugmansia tea. 😀 When that's been done, start reading up on "real" clinical trials. The whole point of the Source news article simply demonstrated that there are ridiculous notions on both sides of the fence but poo-poohing the whole notion of medical marijuana is equally ridiculous.

I'm hardly poo poohing the potential. I'm poo poohing the actual facts as of now. Literally EVERYTHING can be "treated" with marijuana in states who have these laws. I have multiple family members who are both "caregivers" and "patients". Nail fungus? Here's you weed scrip. These are the uses that make the whole idea laughable. This is my point.


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OldTart
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June 26, 2016 12:51 pm  

I pay no attention to the nonsense, only to the established and well documented clinical trials which have gone beyond "potential" and are "facts". I've been around for a while (!) and over three decades ago I was working in the cancer field at a prestigious medical center where even then the medical benefits of marijuana were being researched.


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Bombi
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June 26, 2016 12:53 pm  

Good morning. As we all know. "Facts can be distorted to support a specific point of view. I attended the MMJ hearing on Friday and offered testimony only to discover that my statements were misinterperated by The Source. I did not say that MMJ is a cure for MS. I stated that it stopped my progression. I still have MS and the associated neurological damage however " no active disease"

This is a link to nearly every medical, scientific study and trials of the efficacy of MMJ.

https://grannystormcrowslist.wordpress.com/the-list/conditions-and-related-articles-2010-2015/2010-2016-studies-on-conditions/

Be well and enjoy your day

optimist with low expectations on STX


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sttanon
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June 26, 2016 1:08 pm  

I had a feeling when the bill was taking so long that it did not bode well. It makes me sad that the wording has been altered so much so as to make it damn near impossible for anyone to vote in favor. The changes that were made represent a real slap in the face to those who have worked for so long and helped research.

On the other hand I am getting sick and tired of people using junk facts to prove their side because they don't like the issue. It has been proven over and over again that " demon weed" does not cause IQ loss nor does it lead to psychosis. Amazing when Dr. Sisley pointed out these points and challenged the 3 local Dr.'s that testified to this to support the claims with fact that they didn't or more truthfully COULDNT.

I am so tired of the.hypocracy involved with this issue that is playing games with people's lives and quality of life. I guess that many in the govt are happy with having people be hooked on opiates and other big pharma poison and not being given a chance to use a all natural plant to alleviate their symptoms. Oh yes that's right because big pharma is safe. Just ask Perdue Pharma who sent out to Dr.'s all over the country encouraging them to prescribe OxyContin and stating that the abuse potential was so minimal. In 2012, New England Journal of Medicine published a study that found that "76 percent of those seeking help for heroin addiction began by abusing pharmaceutical narcotics, primarily OxyContin", and draws a direct line between Purdue's marketing of OxyContin and the subsequent heroin epidemic in the US. Gee thank you pharmaceutical industry for looking out for people........


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Bombi
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Spartygrad95
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June 26, 2016 1:29 pm  

As soon as someone says "Big Pharma" "Big Ag" etc, I pretty much consider the rest of the words exiting their mouths or fingers utter rubbish.


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OldTart
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June 26, 2016 1:40 pm  

I guess I'm part of the "anecdotal" sector whose opinion counts for zilch. I've had constant chronic pain for almost 5 years now after a fall which severely damaged my cervical spine. Surgery a year ago afforded much relief and certainly gave me a better quality of life (without it I would be in a wheelchair by now) but I remain in constant pain and will NOT take opiates as a brief try with Oxy frankly left me dopey. I prefer to have my wits about me and not fogged up. So I rely on acetominophen and ibuprofen while a very occasional quick toke affords me major relief without messing me up. If it were legal I would use it much more often but it's not and I can't afford the repercussions if I were caught.

Addiction to opiates is a HUGE problem, as sttanon notes, and the devastation it's wrought on families throughout the US is beyond the imagination of anyone who hasn't followed the issue and mind boggling to those who have.

And, yes, a recent Yale study has found a genetic relationship to marijuana dependency in some people - just as has been found likewise in some with severe alcoholism.

Seems those health care "professionals" who testified so vehemently in opposition to the bill are really pretty ignorant about all the research that's been going on for decades - which is why I wouldn't go to one of them for a simple hangnail. I want someone in whose hands I put my well-being to know facts, not base their opinions on pure fiction passed off as "expert" knowledge.


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OldTart
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June 26, 2016 1:44 pm  

As soon as someone says "Big Pharma" "Big Ag" etc, I pretty much consider the rest of the words exiting their mouths or fingers utter rubbish.

I feel the same way about those who use someone's use of colloquialisms as a general rebuttal.


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STTsailor
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June 26, 2016 1:48 pm  

Marijuana use is less harmful than frequent alcohol use. The main purpose of use is to alter mood, enhance relaxation. You can argue medical benefits of marihuana all day long but what is the point? The purified THC extract is available for medical use in pill form. I think it's called Marinol? Doesn't seem to be that popular. People rather smoke for the purpose of pleasant side effects of unprocessed product.

So call it for what it is. Legalize, regulate, tax and make it available. Let them smoke all they long.

Is taunting all these medical benefits just a ploy to get insurance coverage under Obamacare?


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Spartygrad95
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June 26, 2016 1:50 pm  

As soon as someone says "Big Pharma" "Big Ag" etc, I pretty much consider the rest of the words exiting their mouths or fingers utter rubbish.

I feel the same way about those who use someone's use of colloquialisms as a general rebuttal.

Big Pharma is not a colloquialism. It is rooted in conspiracy theory. The idea that there is a vast conspiracy to thwart medicinal benefits in the name of money is ludicrous. Period. That is why science IS studying cannabis. So they can isolate the chemicals that do work and standardize them to provide a safe and consistent product.


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Bombi
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June 26, 2016 1:56 pm  

Marinol is a chemically synthesized compound and contains no cannabis plant material. It is not available in the U.S. But is available in the UK.
It is a clone of THC and has no CBD or other cannabinoids present in the whole plant. Savatix is available in the U.S. and prescribed for nausea due to chemotherapy.

optimist with low expectations on STX


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OldTart
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June 26, 2016 2:19 pm  

Big Pharma is not a colloquialism. It is rooted in conspiracy theory.

It's two words, just words. And it's a colloquialism. Floccinaucinihilipilification.

And yes, Marinol and its predecessors aren't/weren't unpopular because, "People rather smoke for the purpose of pleasant side effects of unprocessed product" but because they're simply proven not to work for those for whom they were designed. That's fact, not fiction or conjecture.


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LiquidFluoride
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June 26, 2016 2:49 pm  

Do you know how much money "Big Pharma" would make from isolating the chemical components that cure cancer from weed (if it existed)

CBD's do exist, & do completely cure seizures in a wide range of diseases. (the best "money making" aspect of its health benefits IMO)

And they have tried to isolate it and sell it, why do you think it's best to keep the plant illegal?

(btw, the product is called Marinol http://www.marinol.com/ and they sure did try... )

so yeah, every thing you said sarcastically is basically reality 😉

There was a [URL="http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/abinazir/2011/06/15/what-are-chances-you-would-be-born/"]1: 400,000,000,000,000[/URL] chance of you being born: what have you done with your miraculous life today?


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Spartygrad95
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June 26, 2016 2:52 pm  

"Big Pharma is the pejorative nickname given to the pharmaceutical industry. Critics of the industry often use this nickname when discussing abuses by the industry.."

"While the pharmaceutical companies, as shown above, do have a lot to answer for regarding their business practices, some critics of Big Pharma go way, way beyond the realm of well-deserved criticism of these corporations.
The groups that push Big Pharma conspiracies tend to fall into two camps which often overlap: alternative medicine cranks, quacks, and other woo-meisters as well as stock conspiracy theorists. Big Pharma plays the villain in the quack persecution complex as it works tirelessly to suppress their "brilliant cures". The general train of thought behind those who reject evidence-based medicine is that the entirety of medical science (or "Western medicine") is fraudulent and all the studies and experiments are bogus. Any studies showing inefficacy of a treatment are immediately latched onto as "proof" that medical science is bunk by Joseph Mercola and Mike Adams types.[26] Then there are the really cranky cancer conspiracies revolving around the idea that Big Pharma invented the cure for cancer but is covering it up.[27] This is a popular one among raw foodists who believe raw food is "the cure that Big Pharma doesn't want you to know about." There is also a new bunch of fringe theorists, who think that all cancer is a fungus, and that all scientific studies on cancer are therefore frauds. This is all supported by one Italian Onconlogist, called Tullio Simoncini.[28] Ironically, he is under investigation for fraud and homicide after his treatments killed a woman with breast cancer.[29][30] Anti-vaxers also live on Big Pharma conspiracy theories. This opens the door for the woo-meisters to peddle their bullshit, because, you see, they actually care about you while Big Pharma has a profit motive and they don't. Nuh-uh, no profit motive for quackery at all. Just pure all-natural goodness like nature intended, naturally, of course.
The conspiracy theorists generally come from the viewpoint of the relationship between Big Pharma and the government. Usually this involves the use of chemtrails or water fluoridation as mind control substances to prepare us to accept the coming New World Order. Either that or they are being used to intentionally keep us sick so Big Pharma can rake in the dough by causing our illnesses and then selling us the cure. The "cancer industry" conspiracy goes even further, including everybody even tangentially involved with oncology.
Due to the law of crank magnetism, these two groups often merge into an unholy alliance of crankery. This is how sites like Natural News, Rense, and that paragon of crankery, Whale.to are born."

RationalWiki is your friend if you are a skeptic like myself


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Spartygrad95
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June 26, 2016 2:54 pm  

Do you know how much money "Big Pharma" would make from isolating the chemical components that cure cancer from weed (if it existed)

CBD's do exist, & do completely cure seizures in a wide range of diseases. (the best "money making" aspect of its health benefits IMO)

And they have tried to isolate it and sell it, why do you think it's best to keep the plant illegal?

(btw, the product is called Marinol http://www.marinol.com/ and they sure did try... )

so yeah, every thing you said sarcastically is basically reality 😉

They do not cure seizures. They treat seizures. They do not cure cancer. Neither does cannabis oil.


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watruw8ing4
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June 26, 2016 3:08 pm  

That article was, at the very least, a big help in choosing DRs I will not be going to. So many of these assertions, stated as fact, are so opposite to actual medical research findings that I didn't know whether to laugh or cry.

By this time, the efficacy of mmj for treatment and easing of certain medical conditions has been demonstrably proven. (And a lot of mmj processed for medical purposes does not get you high). There are drugs available legally by prescription with far worse side effects. I do think it's the residual Reefer Madness effect that's causing this needless obstruction. The horrors of mj were constantly and thoroughly drilled into people my age by our parents. Maybe when this generation fully retires or kicks off, we'll see some attitude change . . .

btw, there is limited research that shows promising effects of mmj on slowing and eliminating some types of cancer. So much so that the American Cancer Society supports the US opening up more research in this area. We're still a long way off. But should be beyond the pooh-poohing stage.


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sttanon
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June 26, 2016 3:18 pm  

As soon as someone says "Big Pharma" "Big Ag" etc, I pretty much consider the rest of the words exiting their mouths or fingers utter rubbish.

I feel the same way about those who use someone's use of colloquialisms as a general rebuttal.

Big Pharma is not a colloquialism. It is rooted in conspiracy theory. The idea that there is a vast conspiracy to thwart medicinal benefits in the name of money is ludicrous. Period. That is why science IS studying cannabis. So they can isolate the chemicals that do work and standardize them to provide a safe and consistent product.

Sorry don't own a tinfoil hat. I do however follow the news. Perdue Pharma paid a $600mil fine because of KNOWINGLY lying and understating the addiction potential of OxyContin to Dr.s' as well as incentive programs to get people's to prescribe it. Or let's look at another company Insys Theraputics. Check out a documentary called Death by Fentanyl. Insys had people from the company LIE to insurance companies to get people approved for Subsys which is also in violation of federal law. Insys makes a whopping 2 products Subsys which is a Fentanyl spray and then ........wait for it......... naloxone which is used to counteract opiate overdoses. Insys is really a one stop shop, too much of one well was also sell the other.

These examples of "big pharma" at work aren't tin foil hat inspired , they are well documented cases.

What I am trying to say is that there have been many studies just for pain management alone that shows that Cannabis can be more effective with less harmful effects than opiate based compounds. Much like I don't believe that GM killed electric cars I am NOT saying that Big Pharma is withholding some miracle but they are selling products that are causing a lot of problems.


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OldTart
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June 26, 2016 3:50 pm  

Maybe when this generation fully retires or kicks off, we'll see some attitude change . . .

What's the "this generation"? I'm 70. Many, many of my generation smoked hashish (in the UK MJ wasn't available back then but hash was); and when I emigrated to the US in 1968 MJ was all over the place and has been ever since. I can't relate to "this generation" having anything to do with it - but maybe being "American" does?


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