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Refinery Rumors

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singlefin
(@singlefin)
Trusted Member

Heard some rumors concerning the STX refinery.Two possible deals in the works?

1. One company waiting for the foreclosure deal and then move in to scrap and sell off everything.

2. Another petroleum company looking to purchase it, use initially as an oil storage facility, with the eventual re-start of the refinery itself.

Anyone hear anything hopeful?

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Topic starter Posted : February 11, 2015 2:56 pm
Alana33
(@alana33)
Expert

As far as rumors go, I'd be more inclined to believe the scrap one than a having a company eventually restart it as a refinery.

From what I read in news reports, oil companies are downsizing and there's a potential of 80,000 job losses in the industry due to a lessening demand for oil and a greater demand for clean energy.

When it's not just a rumor, let us know.

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Posted : February 11, 2015 3:15 pm
CruzanIron
(@cruzaniron)
Expert

As said by a friend:

You'll know it's true when the name on the sign changes.

Until then, the Senate isn't going to approve anything having to do with Hess unless they drop the law suit.

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Posted : February 11, 2015 3:32 pm
janeinstx
(@janeinstx)
Trusted Member

As said by a friend:

You'll know it's true when the name on the sign changes.

Until then, the Senate isn't going to approve anything having to do with Hess unless they drop the law suit.

(tu)

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Posted : February 11, 2015 6:09 pm
IslandHops
(@IslandHops)
Trusted Member

As the suits from Hess & PDVSA are claims for tax refunds under the federal tax code, it's bloody unlikely they will be dropped.

I wouldn't walk away from a tax refund I was owed. A lawsuit shouldn't be necessary to get your overpaid taxes back.

The government should be working out how they can pay it - some kind of deal that involves deducting out the 40m owing from the cleanup fund.

I'm sure there is more going on behind the scenes with the refinery, but someone needs to tell the government that hope is not a methodology.

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Posted : February 12, 2015 11:26 am
vicanuck
(@vicanuck)
Expert

Although I blogged heavily in favor of ABR, I've since stopped caring about whether the refinery reopens or not. My business has recovered nicely since the closure and I enjoy the reduction in traffic at rush hour.

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Posted : February 12, 2015 11:31 am
CruzanIron
(@cruzaniron)
Expert

Your business may have recovered, but will the VI economy recover in the near term?

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Posted : February 12, 2015 11:40 am
honey
(@honey)
Advanced Member

If they were to scrap and sell everything, I wonder how many houses there would be for sale on the site. and what that would do to the property market.....

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Posted : February 12, 2015 12:38 pm
IslandHops
(@IslandHops)
Trusted Member

If they were to scrap and sell everything, I wonder how many houses there would be for sale on the site. and what that would do to the property market.....

The houses on site are powered from the refinery's generators which are being shut down. I doubt they could be divided up and sold individually even if the infrastructure issues were resolved. Could possibly become some kind of government housing but at what cost? More likely the whole lot will be bulldozed. Either way I wouldn't anticipate any significant impact to the already depressed housing market. Who would want to live between a rusting abandoned refinery and a pile of red mud?

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Posted : February 12, 2015 1:25 pm
CruzanIron
(@cruzaniron)
Expert

They could hook the main cable to WAPA, the water supply to WAPA, and the sewer lines to WMA, and they are good to go. Each house already has a power meter.

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Posted : February 12, 2015 2:10 pm
denvertired
(@denvertired)
Advanced Member

There is a huge problem that hasn't been talked about, Venezuela is broke. They have taken huge loans from multiple places and are trading oil to repay debt.
They were putting all of the Citgo assets on the market but the creditors put a stop to it. Instead they are doing a bond sale against the profits.
Looking at all of the current debt problems you have to reason that Venezuela oil will be looking for short cash.

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Posted : February 12, 2015 2:35 pm
caribstx
(@caribstx)
Trusted Member

The red mud pile is almost gone.

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Posted : February 12, 2015 5:51 pm
janeinstx
(@janeinstx)
Trusted Member

The red mud pile is almost gone.

Not gone. Just buried.

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Posted : February 12, 2015 5:56 pm
IslandHops
(@IslandHops)
Trusted Member

The red mud pile is almost gone.

Not gone. Just buried.

Yep, but one day it will be dug up and processed for all the remaining minerals & metals. key phrase - one day...

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Posted : February 12, 2015 6:50 pm
Alana33
(@alana33)
Expert

Just maybe, you can consider the fact that without an oil refinery, STX can have a cleaner and better environment. New possibilities.

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Posted : February 12, 2015 9:53 pm
janeinstx
(@janeinstx)
Trusted Member

We can all stop driving vehicles that are fossil fuel powered too.

Just maybe, you can consider the fact that without an oil refinery, STX can have a cleaner and better environment. New possibilities.

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Posted : February 12, 2015 11:35 pm
CruzanIron
(@cruzaniron)
Expert

Alana, tell us how the environment has improved in the last 2 years.

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Posted : February 13, 2015 12:22 am
terry
(@terry)
Expert

Janeinstx, how are people going to get around? Electric?? That requires oil burning WAPA to charge their cars.
Horses? Did you know that at the turn of the century (1900's) the big selling point of the auto was pollution control. Imagine thousands of horses - hundreds of pounds of horse shit - dead animals laying around.

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Posted : February 13, 2015 4:52 am
MissJustice
(@MissJustice)
Trusted Member

I didn't trust the ABR deal, but I would like to see the refinery open by a real company, however unlikely that prospect might be. The port I am told is excellent, so I hope we can find uses for it at least.
With respect to owing money, the only settled amount is the $40million that Gov. Mapp is pursuing that Hovensa owes us. The tax refund of $200 million is disputed by the VI Govt., and includes deductions for salaries in excess of $1 million annually. A court has not yet ruled on whether any tax is owed, how much if so, and to whom.

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Posted : February 13, 2015 10:27 am
caribstx
(@caribstx)
Trusted Member

I can't wait to hear the outcome of the $230 million lawsuit. Bend over GVI.

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Posted : February 13, 2015 11:26 am
IslandHops
(@IslandHops)
Trusted Member

Just maybe, you can consider the fact that without an oil refinery, STX can have a cleaner and better environment. New possibilities.

A-33, I can't recall if you live on STX? Please expand upon how your experience regarding the environment on STX has improved since the refinery has shut down, and what these new possibilities are?

As a resident of STX I see the loss of jobs, and loss of income to the GVI, has had a more detrimental effect than the possibility of restarting a retooled refinery processing light sweet crude would have been. The GVI produces more smoke (and mirrors) than most industry combined. Remember when the schools and area residents were complaining of sickening foul owners and blaming the refinery. Turns out to be sewer problems - what a bugger, no one to sue on that count.

Let's see what other magic is in the air. Still waiting on the Monarch deal to be announced - Yea Right!

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Posted : February 13, 2015 11:56 am
Alana33
(@alana33)
Expert

I live on STT.

I meant that without an operating oil refinery, there would not be any emissions nor pollutants to impact the air, soil, ground water table or ocean of the surrounding area.

If it was dismantled and sold for scrap, (eventually), it could become the site for a different type of industry that could provide jobs. However, this lawsuit is bound to drag on so it's doubtful that we'll be seeing any creative or innovative ways to use the property, anytime soon.

I realize this is a sensitive subject for many on this forum that live on STX and depended on the refinery for their livelihood.

I apologize if I ruffled any feathers. It was not my intention.

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Posted : February 13, 2015 12:19 pm
IslandHops
(@IslandHops)
Trusted Member

People who live on STX have had to bear the painful burden of seeing their friends and neighbors pack up and leave, unwillingly. We've seen the loss of a bloody big chunk of the well paying jobs on island. This has had a detrimental affect on everything from real estate values, to favorite dining establishments and small businesses closing, even down to what is stocked in our local stores.

Yes we all can see that improvements in air quality downstream of the refinery is a given. I don't think you will find many people living here that can't see the positive in that. But it all comes down to balance and the best use of the site.

We can all wax on paradoxically regarding other uses, but the truth is to set up any kind of industrial manufacturing industry on an island in the Caribbean is a bloody big punt. Between regulation, dealing with the VI government, import/export costs, and labor market, there isn't much economic sense to it. We don't have local raw materials to process into finished goods on any kind of scale. I'm not saying there aren't possibilities, but the ideas are not being initiated into action where there are good jobs as a result.

Likewise the discussion of a trans shipment port must be considered in context of other available, and established, locations.

So we have to look to more feasible "new possibilities" that can truly help our island overcome the current downturn and provide improved employment opportunities for those still resident on our island, and those wanting to return.

ABR, while some evaluated as a contentious deal, was a real possibility. Since the legislature shot that down I have yet to see any other "new possibilities" come to light. Instead we continue to stare down a very dark, and long, tunnel.

But I still wouldn't want to live anywhere else! 😎

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Posted : February 13, 2015 2:03 pm
caribstx
(@caribstx)
Trusted Member

The only way the Virgin islands can attract a major industry to relocate here is with massive tax concessions, ie: Diageo. Why the people who live don't get that is beyond me.

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Posted : February 13, 2015 2:24 pm
CruzanIron
(@cruzaniron)
Expert

Because they are taught that all big business is evil,
and they don't have an inkling of Business 101.

As long as they collect their their food stamps and welfare checks and section 8 benefits, they will believe whatever they are told.

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Posted : February 13, 2015 2:36 pm
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