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dannyboy
(@dannyboy)
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July 3, 2009 3:38 am  

if life has thrown you a serious curveball like an accident you shouldn't have survived,or a surgery that could have ended your life but it didn't,or maybe that person most would say is retarded tells you he hears the angels working on and talking about you while you are in the hospital bed next to him recovering from some thing the doctors tell your family you'll be dead of in 48 hrs and you survive. or just the miracle of watching the birth of your children tell me why or what has touched you personally to believe in HIM please share a story so that others see a glimpse


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dntw8up
(@dntw8up)
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July 3, 2009 4:25 am  

Why are you only interested in hearing about the brain surgery that could have ended a loved one's life but didn't? Why don't you want to hear about the mole removal surgery that was supposed to be done with local anesthesia as an outpatient but ended a loved one's life? There's no need to use the supernatural as an explanation for matters of random luck. What's more, you seem to be unclear about what constitutes good/bad luck. All of your examples involve affirming life, but the afterlife is the more desirable state for Christians, Jews, Muslims and several other faiths.


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rotorhead
(@rotorhead)
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July 3, 2009 4:39 am  

I have always wondered why god gets credit when good coincidences happen but never gets blamed when bad things happen. What kind of god lets millions of children die of starvation every year? A malevolent one? Or maybe a nonexistent one.

My good deed for the day.
How can you believe in god and not believe in Santa Claus or the tooth fairy or unicorns? Maybe you do? Belief in any of these things require the same thing, Suspension of Reason.

You asked in the other thread what if I am wrong, it's a 50/50 chance. Well I ask you the same thing, what if you are wrong, what if muslims have the right idea? Or scientologists? Or hindus? Or jews? Or atheists? Etc. It's looks much worse than a 50/50 chance.


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dannyboy
(@dannyboy)
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July 3, 2009 8:23 am  

rotohead,dntwt8up, why don't you boys take a nap for awhile and let the other kids have a turn. i waited and then very reluctantly chimed in on your thread after 3 weeks of listening how smart you are and now i just gotta believe you boys are the class bullies and just want attention. don't go away mad just go away


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divinggirl
(@divinggirl)
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July 3, 2009 11:44 am  

Dannyboy: This is a public forum. If you only want to "speak" to certain people it should be done via a Private Message or on your own blog. You recommended that Rotorhead start his own thread on Atheism so he did and many who are not Atheist remark on that thread - it is not exclusionary. Why are you trying to be exclusionary? I don't have a "dog in this fight" but it upsets me when people try to become the thought police. Again, if you only want to have a discussion with certain people it should not be done on a public forum.


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antiqueone
(@antiqueone)
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Posts: 389
July 3, 2009 1:24 pm  

I am a "reluctant Christian." I did not want to believe in the God of the Bible. I grew up in an Episcopalian Church and found it dry, boring and dead. The songs were fun, but I didn't see any life-changing reason for it. Searching for the truth, I looked at Witchcraft, Hinduism, Buddhism, and Taoism. I spent a year living in a Zen monastery. I found lots of interesting things and thought I knew the "Truth of the Universe."
During a particularly difficult time in my life, I was curled up on my bed, and I cried out to a God I did not believe in to help me. And (literally) the next day I went into a Karate dojo to work out and met a woman who was a solid, educated Christian. We got along so I decided to show her the folly of her ways. We had discussions that were a bit vocal at various restaurants and the waiters and waitresses were disinclined to come to our table sometimes. She had an answer for everything. I started going to church with her and over the course of a summer, every single time, the answer to whatever we were arguing about the day before would be the substance of that sermon. We went to several different churches and the results were the same. I would ask, "What about the Hottentots in deepest Africa who never hear of Jesus." The sermon at the next church would be, "What about the Hottentots of deepest Africa?" It was uncanny. 3 times a week for 2 1/2 months.
When I ran out of arguments and had come to the point of breaking up with that woman over this religion thing, I knew in my heart that it was real. God does exist and Jesus is exactly who he claimed to be. I gave up fighting and asked Jesus to come into my life. And then an extraordinary thing happened. A flood of what I can only describe as "love" swept over me. It was a physical feeling, no small emotion. It was not from myself, but from outside of me. All of a sudden, everything I had been reading in the Bible and other related material made sense. It all fit together. These words seem so mundane compared to my experience, but it's the best I can do. I am as sure of the Truth as I am that I exist.
Is this all a figment of my imagination? Not possible. Is it an hallucination? Possibly, but then you have to explain the same hallucination in millions of other people over centuries. A psychosis, perhaps? Well, from the outside, I suppose it could meet the definition, but then I submit the definition is wrong. Psychoses don't get people to quit heroin cold turkey without withdrawl symptoms as Nicky Cruz writes about. They don't get alcoholics to quit drinking, They don't change people's lives for the better the way walking with Christ does.
Since then, I have heard literally hundreds of stories of miracles, both big and small that confirm what I know to be True.
Is there a supernatural world, beyond what we can study and poke our fingers into? You bet there is! My advice is, "Don't be afraid to look past all the trappings to the deeper Truth."


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puddlejumper
(@puddlejumper)
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July 3, 2009 2:34 pm  

Beautiful Antiqueone! The difference in religion and Christianity to a believer is there is a personal relationship with Jesus. It is only available (for free) to those who allow Him in their life. And anyone can have that relationship. I don't have all the answers, never will. I don't need to for that matter. We all have free will to decide on our own what we believe. What do you choose?


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Uttica
(@Uttica)
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July 3, 2009 2:45 pm  

Dannyboy didn't I read "negativity is like a slow poison" written by you on another post? Maybe you should stay out of the koolaid your self.


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Betty
(@Betty)
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July 3, 2009 2:52 pm  

I've stayed away from the atheism thread because frankly it seemed more about attacking Christians (and pretty much only Christians out of many faiths out there). I can understand being passionate about what you believe in (referring to the atheists) but I never think its a good idea to have to tear down someone's belief system, whether they be pro or anti religion. It's just way too personal of a thing to do. Might as well call someone fat, ugly and a loser. Because while it may just be a mental discussion for a few, it does nothing but hurt the feelings of most.

I realize this is an open forum and we can all discuss whatever we want, I think this is one of those subjects that is so close to so many peoples hearts that its just not right. I'll argue til the cows come home about crime, corrupt gov, etc but I'm staying neutral on this subject. I've never felt the need to preach about what I believe and I'm not going to start now.


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Trade
(@Trade)
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July 3, 2009 2:55 pm  

Well said, Betty. (tu)


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Betty
(@Betty)
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July 3, 2009 2:58 pm  

Thank you Trade 🙂


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rotorhead
(@rotorhead)
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July 3, 2009 3:30 pm  

I find it amusing that dannyboy would suggest that atheists should stay away from his "believers" thread. He was the one who suggested that I start an atheist thread because he was offended by my signature.

I started one. Almost immediately antiqueone and neil jumped in and started preaching their religion. They have posted regularly on the other thread. Other christians have jumped in occasionally with comments. If talking about atheism offends you then why read or post on a thread that is clearly labeled "atheism"?

Christians are funny in the US. They feel that they are entitled. Take Betty's comments. She feels that we should not talk about this because some people are offended. She probably thinks that it is OK that when I turn on my TV (I have Dish Network) I find dozens of religious channels preaching to the masses. Does she think that atheists are not offended? Why don't those religious channels go away, they are offensive! Is it only christians who are allowed free speech. They probably think that if I don't like it I should just change channels. How is just changing channels any different than just not reading a thread if it offends you.

I have no problem discussing religion or atheism. I think the only people who have a problem discussing it are people who are insecure in their beliefs. I also don't mean to pick on christians, I think all religions are equally misguided. It's just that the christians are the ones who insisted on joining into the discussion on the other thread.

I believe in the real world, free from superstition. I believe that religion has done nothing but impede human progress. I believe as Thomas Jefferson said that one day the mythology of Jesus Christ will be seen as no different than that of Zeus and Apollo.


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Betty
(@Betty)
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July 3, 2009 3:54 pm  

Rotor you read alot into what people say without knowing them at all and you love to argue perhaps more then I do. And I think in general you go for the jugular when defending your arguements. Meaning you go to a personal level to attack.

1. I stated my view that should not bother you. You're all about stating your view.
2. Never said I was christian, I won't say what I believe in. I think it takes alot more strength to keep your mouth shut. 🙂 It much easier to run off at the mouth.
3. Theres plenty of athethist stuff on tv as well. If they wanted to start their own channel and they had the money who would stop them? Remember we're even allowed to burn the flag now days. Anything goes is our moral climate. There are still some ignorant people that will try to stop people but for the most part you can really do whatever you want now days. Thats good and bad.
4. I have stayed away from your thread. Read a little saw what it was like and read no more. I really think you should let this own guy have his thread and not bully him, but that is obviously totally your call. I think its the right thing to do but I doubt you will. Whatever.
5. Not insecure in my beliefs but seriously can't understand the need to talk about it this much. Have we not talked relgion it to death already?


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antiqueone
(@antiqueone)
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July 3, 2009 4:00 pm  

I agree with rotorhead. This forum is for open discussion. I have really enjoyed the open discussion on the atheism thread. rotorhead's atheism doesn't hurt my feelings and the responses to my comments have caused me to think deeply about what I believe. He did start that thread for atheists and I did put in my 2 cents worth.....which grew to about $10.00 worth....sorry bout that rotorhead. He certainly has the right to put in his 2 cents worth here if he wants. (God is big enough for that, I think)

Ranting and raving is not acceptable, but the conversation certainly should be.


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dntw8up
(@dntw8up)
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July 3, 2009 4:20 pm  

rotohead,dntwt8up, why don't you boys take a nap for awhile and let the other kids have a turn. i waited and then very reluctantly chimed in on your thread after 3 weeks of listening how smart you are and now i just gotta believe you boys are the class bullies and just want attention. don't go away mad just go away

I don't think my posts support labeling me a "class bully." I don't think my posts suggest I "just want attention." I am not "mad," but I think it's inappropriate of you to ask me to "go away." And I am not a "boy."


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rotorhead
(@rotorhead)
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July 3, 2009 4:41 pm  

Rotor you read alot into what people say without knowing them at all and you love to argue perhaps more then I do. And I think in general you go for the jugular when defending your arguements. Meaning you go to a personal level to attack.

When have I attacked someone on a personal level? The only time I mention names is when I am responding to something they said and want to make it clear what my comment is about.

1. I stated my view that should not bother you. You're all about stating your view.
2. Never said I was christian, I won't say what I believe in. I think it takes alot more strength to keep your mouth shut. 🙂 It much easier to run off at the mouth.
3. Theres plenty of athethist stuff on tv as well. If they wanted to start their own channel and they had the money who would stop them? Remember we're even allowed to burn the flag now days. Anything goes is our moral climate. There are still some ignorant people that will try to stop people but for the most part you can really do whatever you want now days. Thats good and bad.
4. I have stayed away from your thread. Read a little saw what it was like and read no more. I really think you should let this own guy have his thread and not bully him, but that is obviously totally your call. I think its the right thing to do but I doubt you will. Whatever.
5. Not insecure in my beliefs but seriously can't understand the need to talk about it this much. Have we not talked relgion it to death already?

1. I am not at all bothered by you stating you view. We should all feel free to state our views.
2. I could care less whether you are a christian or not. When it comes to running off at the mouth, I have been on this forum for over 3 years and have posted 244 times. You have been on this forum for 2 years and have posted 1819 times. Whose mouth is running more? Or is it that we are only allowed to comment on topics which you agree with?
3. Atheists are starting to organize. You will see more atheism on TV. So if you are easily offended by ideas which differ from yours beware!
4. I am glad that you think that I should let this guy have his own thread. Where were you when he posted on the other thread? Should he have let us have our own thread? Sounds a little hypocritical to me.
5. No we have not talked it to death. Until recently any discussion which was atheist in nature was suppressed. It still is. The FFRF has been trying to put up atheist billboards around the country. They are continuously denied because the owners of the billboards think that atheism is too controversial. Yet they have no problem putting up religious billboards. The discussion is just beginning.


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tmleeke
(@tmleeke)
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Posts: 120
July 3, 2009 5:04 pm  

When I'm lying in bed with my girlfriend and watching her breath... up down, up down. I think to myself... if her heart stopped beating right now and there is nothing but a body lying beside me, what is it that I love? Was it just a bunch of matter, i.e.- her body and electrical signals in her brain, or is it the spirit she gives to the matter? And I just can't believe she's all matter and no spirit. Or anybody else for that matter.

People are to hung on "god". Forget about god. You know nothing about what you call god. But you do know about the universal spirit that gives matter personality. Evolution is just another word for thinking. The way matter "thinks" over time. And thinking is another word for intelligence. The very fact that we ask the question "why" is proof that there is something beyond the observable universe. Otherwise we would just Be.

So why bring god into our little earth squabbles? How about asking yourself why you question existence in the first place.


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dannyboy
(@dannyboy)
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Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 29
July 3, 2009 5:09 pm  

well i quess the ratings guys are right ,good news doesn't sell the advertising. lets just have bad news and conflict to spice things up.who really wants to talk about why you see a pregnant woman glow ,or the lump in your throat when you hand your kid over to the surgeon before a surgery,and why do buddies in war fight to protect each other.just because? how about when the hair stands up on the back of your neck or the goosebumps on your arms i find it wonderful to be in awe of what has been created in us and around us.the forum is open yes but before one person could jump into the pool to share a thought of why they believe , which was the question,our friends gotta wee wee in the water


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dntw8up
(@dntw8up)
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Posts: 1866
July 3, 2009 5:15 pm  

Okay dannyboy, I didn't realize you were only interested in responses from people who share your perspective. I am sorry I sullied your thread with my thoughts, and will endeavor not to make the same mistake again.


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stxem
(@stx-em)
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July 3, 2009 5:22 pm  

There are some perfectly wonderful physiological and evolutionary answers to the feelings and emotions of humans. Like why a pregnant woman may glow--hormones, mostly. Why we get goosebumps--evolutionary relic from when we had alot more hair combined with parasympathetic nervous system reactions. Even why humans tend to band together and help one another. Not all these things are supernatural and many have concrete scientific explanations. But those scientific explanations can still be wondrous and amazing--just think at all that our species and others have been through to get to where we are today. Evolution and science and how things work are an amazing story of shared history of our planet. Kind of corny, but really cool, nonetheless.


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jogetz
(@jogetz)
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Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 65
July 3, 2009 9:35 pm  

Dannyboy,

I believe (am convinced) of the truth and uniqueness of Christianity because I am compelled to do so on the basis of the evidence that exists for its primary truth claim - Jesus rose from the dead never to die again.

JG


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Exit Zero
(@exit-zero)
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Posts: 2344
July 3, 2009 10:27 pm  

I have read and stayed off many threads that don't help this continue as a 'relocation forum'


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rotorhead
(@rotorhead)
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July 3, 2009 10:58 pm  

dannyboy,
At your suggestion I started an atheists thread. The first post clearly stated that I was an atheist and I was trying to find out whether there were any other atheists in the Virgin Islands who were on this Forum. There were. We barely made it through one page when the christians jumped in and started commenting on our conversations, They started trying to inject christian dogma into an atheist thread.

I pointed this out.

I find it amusing that I started this thread because a christian complained about my atheist sig. So this thread is clearly labeled "Atheism" and yet the Christians even come here to complain. It would be like me going into a thread asking about christian churches and asking them why they would want to waste their time going to church. I'm sure the Christians on that thread would complain. That is part of the problem in this country, the Christians feel privileged.

To which christian neil replied

Rotohead... you're a bit disingenuous: nobody posts here hoping for no reaction. Let's at least admit that.
And you're smart enough to know that posting about a lively issue on an internet message board is sure to bring reaction.

And the christians continued to comment.

dannyboy you even jumped on to the atheist thread to make a comment.

Who is being disingenuous now? Or is only atheism a lively issue?


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Betty
(@Betty)
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July 3, 2009 11:23 pm  

Rotorhead I think you are a extremely smart man who enjoys debating. I do not think most find it just an intellectual exercise and I see no point in hurting anyone or infuriating them and in your eyes that apparently makes me weak, which makes me sad for you. I'm turning off the channel as far as your posts go so feel free to get the last word in. I just think this discussion is extremely boring and beyond pointless.


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dannyboy
(@dannyboy)
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Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 29
July 3, 2009 11:40 pm  

Betty i to am sorry for falling into rotorhead obvious attempt to debate .i only engaged him previously because it seemed nobody cared . at this point everyone accept my apology for what i now view as an inappropriate attempt to fend for MY ideology. islander i hope you'll accept this as well. please fell free to remove this thread


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