I wonder what ever happened to micheal?
On of his posts said he would be down in Oct. Michael that is!
"Nice... putting language on the books differentiating Virgin Islanders and Citizens. I'm pretty sure there is nothing on the books of what makes somebody a Floridian."
You cannot compare the USVI to Florida. Florida is a STATE. USVI is a TERRITORY. Do you see a star representing the VI on the US flag? According to the United Nations, the USVI is its own country with its own national identity. As a non-sovereign country, the USVI has has issues concerning identity and nativeness that a state would not have.
Take it easy... I was just commenting on what seems to be discrimination. I wasn't comparing FL to USVI, and I'm aware of the status of the territory. The comparison is still relative though.
Maybe I'm missing something... does distinguishing the three terms have any relevance to anything?
Ok gotcha, sorry if I sounded hostile.
Sorry Lizard, I forgot to add the "s" at the end. Thanks for the info regarding the WWII issue I didn't realize that they were bought as a precautionary defense against U-boats...that's interesting.
"the inconveniences of it islands. i have done a PMV, read this message board for a year daily, love the island and can deal with the inconveniences."
They are still Americans. Some feel they are VI islanders or Cruzans first, but then again, if you are in a foreign country and meet someone from Texas, if you ask them where they are from, they will probably not say America, but TEXAS!
I do feel that down the road "some" are looking for special treatment or government money.
If you are born somewhere, then you are a native of that somewhere.
Right, but it's not usually recorded on govt documents distinguishing who is who. The US has always been a melting pot of people, and there are only 2 types of memberships: citizen and non-citizen.
I can understand how VI natives have trouble embracing that, especially considering they don't get a vote in the US senate and aren't considered a state, but owned by the US.
On the other hand, they get a lot of support from the US and may not be as successful without it. Either way, I wouldn't expect that sort of segregation coming from the government. It surely makes integration a little more difficult and could promote discrimination on some level. I always felt like the government should treat all citizens equally (I know the US has their own problems).
Virgin Islanders (and Puerto Ricans too) are not Americans, they are American colonial subjects. They are Caribbean people with American citizenship on the side. I do not consider myself an "American" in an everyday sense although I do carry an American passport. Just ask any VI person who's lived in the states, do most Americans really consider us Americans? Even those who are aware that we're an American territory?
In reality we're not Americans, it's just an "on paper" designation because of our colonial status.
I understand what you are saying, but sorry, I'm not buying. One is either a citizen of a country or is not. In the case of the USVI, if you were born on STX you are a US citizen, just as I, who was born in Illinois, am. One can also have loyalty to another entity. I have a friend who is a naturalized US citizen but still would tell you he is Persian.
I'm still trying to understand the differences:
- do native islanders have US driver's licenses? They must... there's a DMV.
- can they get US passports?
- how about Social Security numbers?
- sounds like they can be drafted into the military (I'm not sure that you have to be an American citizen to fight in our military).
- I'm sure that they can vote for local officials (please tell me it's true).
I've done just a little research. The USVI is an "unincorporated organized territory". I haven't figured out the implications of that yet... legal or practical. Wikipedia has a discussion about it, but so far it's very confusing to me. I'm still not sure who decides that a place will be a territory. But, once a territory it seems that the territory then decides if it wants to become a "state" or "commonwealth" (apparently the state where I currently live - Virginia - is a "commonwealth", which is somehow different from a state); however, I think congress also has to go along with the idea.
Yes because they are Americans.
I don't know the way to become a state, but Arizona was a territory before it became a state.
Hawaii was too wasn't it?
hi from southwest florida. it's michael the one that started this post. i plan on being on STX in october as soon as it cools enough to ship my 60# mutt. as soon as i got back from my PMV last may-07 i got certified to dive (advanced & nitrox) and bought my equipment. last month i paid off my truck and will be shipping that. (2003 chevy full size standard cab 8' bed, 2-wheel drive 65,000 miles). next month i pay off my morgage and the place will set empty till the market turns around, no more bills here. i THINK i have found i pet friendly rental from a relative of a friend here not to far from Linda J. i have a couple friends on STX that will make this move easier. i grew up on a small farm in maine and spent all most 30 years in construction here in florida. i have met a couple of you posters and you know who you are. there are several posters i can't wait to meet espically LIZZARD, (smart & very wise) , TAMMI & JJ i turn 50 august 12, MARRTY STT i have PMed you. and once i get setteled in will have to make that trip to meet TRADE, love your post too. there are many others too. with any luck see you in october.
michael, it sounds like you are seriously set up!! Great job at owning your house, that's a HUGE deal!!!!
I'm going to try to help you out a little here and answer your questions in the order you asked.
---Citizens of the US Virgin Islands have a US Virgin Island Drivers License. There is no such thing as a US Drivers License
each State Issues Their own License you know like NJ,PA,NY, Conn etc. all 50 states.
---Virgin Island Citizens, (not down Islanders or aliens) are US Citizens and issued US Passports like any other American Citizen.
---Yes a Virgin Islander must register for the Draft and be Drafted when there is a Draft in effect. The Virgin Islands has a Federal
recognized National Guard. Any Alien with a green card can be drafted in the US Military and fight, They can even join the US Military.
Again the US Virgin Islanders are American Citizens.
---Here's the tricky part, A US Virgin Citizen while living in the islands can't vote for the President of the US.. However if he/she moves to
one of the 50 States They can vote for the President. All 50 State Citizens that move to the US Virgin Islands and take residence and register to vote in local elections can't vote for the president of the US. Its not the Citizen its the territory, that makes you ineligible to vote for
President of the US.
---The Organic Act enables the The US Virgin Islands To Draft a constitution, which they have attempted to do in the past with no success.
Without a constitution they are not eligible for commonwealth status or State Status. So you see its really up to the Citizens of the US Virgin Islands to adopt a Constitution. Statehood may never come because the Senate and Congress would lose some seats. ( That last sentence was my Opinion). This is out of the sequence sorry. Yes US Virgin Islander have Social Security Numbers/cards. One thing you might not know is that the Income tax collected stays in the local economy and doesn't get lost in DC. But the SS Payments go to the mainland.
Thanks Lizard, that helps much. I can't tell you how many times I've fallen into the trap of thinking of a "US driver's license"... duh, I just ran into the issue last year with my daughter losing her Virginia driver's license while she was in college in Maine... I tried to tell her to just go down to her local DMV and get another one...
I believe I understand exactly what you're saying about eligibility to vote for presidents... you made it very clear.
The Organic act sounds very interesting in regards to this question about native islanders vs others. I'm wondering if this language is intended for a USVI constitution. I can't tell from the article if the "Constitutional Convention's Citizenship, Virgin Islands' Rights, Environment, and Cultural and Historical Preservation Committee" is a group that is sanctioned by the larger USVI governing body or not. Either way, I'm guessing that this language is intended for a constitution. Now, I just looked back at our mainland US constitution. It seems that we tinker with the notion of citizenship also:
- the 14th amendment refines the ideas of rights for citizens, but still refers to citizens as males above 21 yo.
- the 15th amendment allows all races to vote
- the 19th allows women to vote
- the 26th allows 18 yo to vote
So, if our government allowed this tinkering on the basis of sex, race and age, then I guess I shouldn't be surprised by other constitutions tinkering also... following what ever social norms make sense to the majority (or whoever gets to make the constitution). Taking it a bit further, I wouldn't be surprised to see the constitution allow more representation by native islanders. I'm not saying that I'd necessarily like it, but it would seem logical to me, and honestly I'd have to ponder a bit whether it'd be "wrong".
So how long have folks here been trying to create a constitution? And yes, I see, the process to become a state or commonwealth began when the USVI became a US territory (without the locals having any say); but will not proceed unless both the USVI and US congress agree.
Now, I'm also guessing that there may be incentive to create a constitution, without the idea of petitioning the US congress to become a state. A constitution might solidify rights and procedures for local government. Although, I'm guessing that currently the US constitution must be the default if there isn't a local constitution. And you probably can't have a constitution that goes against the US constitution.
It seems to me that some of the people who are trying to draft a constitution are only in it for the money. As soon as the funds ran out they quit having their meetings, and didn't start up again until more money was given to them.
Where would the USA be if the framers of the constitution were that way. Not only were they not paid, many lost everything including their lives.
What a difference 230 plus years makes.:-(
Yea Michael, Can't wait to meet you. I will be in the states in October for the birth of my grandchild but will see you when I get back. Good luck with your move.
yes and it will be interesting to see how much money our senators will try and steal from the captain morgan people before they approve the deal
Michael, hope all goes well getting your 60 pounder down here. You'll both be here before you know it.
Yes indeed Florida and V.I. are quite different. I also will be doing a PMV in about two years. I can say this..I have been to every Cari bean Island including P.R. and as far south as Barbados and Aruba. Also Bahamas to the North, middle Islands St. Martin, Nevis and Turks.. STX, STT. have about the most going for them. My opinion is you cannot get that deep aqua blue beautiful water in Florida any longer. About 20 years ago you could still find it in the Florida keys..but sadly they are dying now also and the water is not as clear. As you can see I'm water crazy. I do think Barbados is the most gorgeous of all the Cari bean islands no hurricanes there either. However if you think it is hot in STT wait till the afternoon sun hits you in Barbados. Also the Bajan community in my opinion will welcome you as American and welcome your money ....it is a bit harder to get involved in the Bajan community socially and hard find a job ( sort of like U,S, discrimination). Anyway, I own a condo in New Port Richey Florida and if I don't make it in the V.I. I will go back there. Ending I will say to be able to experience the beaches and water anywhere around the V.I. is one of God's greatest blessing and all you folks there are a blessed people ..especially Ms Trade...
Here is what they have spent to date, take form today's Daily paper. This is for, it appears only 25 people. This was started late last year. They are STILL asking for more money. They wanted $3.3 MILLION to start with. They are supposed to be finished July 27th. In the paper today there was a article about how they were disrupted when a shouting match broke out when someone tried to pass a ruling on being civil to each other in the meetings.
$100,293 for hotel accommodations.
- $45,828 on air travel.
- $26,638 for the stenographer.
- $11,293 on delegate stipend and reimbursement.
- $8,741 for catering services.
- $3,399 on meals from restaurants.
- $4,607 for a videotaping services contract.
- $4,584 on meeting expenses.
- $2,020 for travel reimbursement.
- $1,908 on ground transportation.
- $1,055 for printing and copying services.
- $827 for supplies.
- $792 on facilities and equipment.
- $700 for ferry travel.
- $595 for secretarial services and mailing services.
- $209 on miscellaneous expenses.
- $177 on gasoline expenses.
This is $50,633 for travel. 😮 How many of the 25 live on STT?:S
This is $100,293 for the few who don't live there!:-o:-o
This is $12,140 for food.:-o
Sounds like a pretty good way to line the pockets to me.
Any bets whether or not they get a constitution???:P
Thanks, Neil. We are blessed but there's always room for you, too.
Terry, sickening, isn't it?
what hotel do they stay at on STX?