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dntw8up
(@dntw8up)
Trusted Member

The owner of the property is Warren Mosler; the guy from the dive shop rents space.

I don't think anyone realized just how much of St Croix Mosler owns but perhaps we need to pay attention before he owns the majority of the Island.

What is most disturbing is that the owner, who once ran for high office here used the slogan, "I grieve for the People of the Virgin Islands".

Mosler is grieving for the people of the VI from Connecticut, and running for "high office" appears to be his hobby. In February 2009 he declared his candidacy to challenge Obama for the Democratic Party nomination, and in April 2010 he withdrew that challenge to run for the U.S. Senate in Connecticut, where he received less than one percent of the vote.

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Posted : June 24, 2011 4:52 pm
noOne
(@noOne)
Trusted Member

What is ugly is the recent influx of Carpet Baggers, who are here for one reason alone, and have no regard for the condition of the residents.

I like how you come here to complain about being lumped into one group of "You People" and then lump another group together, the "Carpet Baggers".

You're no better than the guys you're complaining about.

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Posted : June 24, 2011 5:02 pm
IslandHops
(@IslandHops)
Trusted Member

Carpet baggers? How about tea baggers, or even grocery baggers - how can we idly stand by and allow this type of 'profiling' 😎

A public meeting was held to 'discuss' the proposal and it turned into a heated predominately one-sided protest (from what I've heard). I'm surprised the poor guy presenting the proposal didn't get a cigarette and a blindfold.

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Posted : June 24, 2011 5:32 pm
SkysTheLimit
(@SkysTheLimit)
Trusted Member

Maybe "You people" meant You Litter Bugs. That beach gets trashed every weekend. Such disrespect!!
The employees of the local establishments are the ones that clean it up. Eat, Dive shop, Virgin Kayak....

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Posted : June 24, 2011 6:48 pm
Jumbie
(@ohiojumbie-2)
Trusted Member

A public meeting was held to 'discuss' the proposal and it turned into a heated predominately one-sided protest (from what I've heard). I'm surprised the poor guy presenting the proposal didn't get a cigarette and a blindfold.

-- good one IslandHops.

Don't feel that sorry for Richard Borck the presenter. He's geting paid by Mosler. I thought during the presentation he gave the impression
certain things were already done and in place with local authorities concerning proceeding forth with the project. Yes it was an angry community protest especially when Mr Borck failed to give forthright answers instead was evasive on some q's. On some questions, he never did answer-just stared at the audience. So in a way he deserved what he got. I'm sure that's why Mosler didn't show for this meeting -didn't want to get bombarded with objections/questions.

I just hope that enough people show up at CZM when it's time to "hold public" hearings on this thing & voice their concerns.

Jumbie -STX

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Posted : June 24, 2011 8:16 pm
Neil
 Neil
(@Neil)
Trusted Member

Neil,

I too am using my name, and not hiding behind an anonymous.

My personal interest, I live near to Cane Bay, and my family owns property there, as well.

........

Progress, to me, is Inclusion.

As an Elder, I am witnessing the same conditions from the past, that have been over looked or hidden from the communities' eyes.

I am not against progress or change, but this kind of situation is exactly what I want to avoid, how We People were treated in the past.

Probably, you can not see or will not accept my position, but there are those who understand exactly what I am saying.

I noticed and applaud your lack of anonymity! And I'm sorry the shop owner appeared to use a veiled racial insult. There are jerks everywhere.

Nothwithstanding....
I don't understand why you think the property owner is not being "inclusive"? How is this proposal keeping anything "hidden from the community's eyes"? He created a proposal, made it public, and asked the community to come talk about it. To me, your fears sounds like the same conspiratorial anti-development "we being taken advantage of" hogwash you hear on am1620, but I'm willing to give you the benefit of a doubt.

What I'm against is your interjection of RACE into this discussion. "We People were treated in the past" and "carpet baggers" is unnecessary inflammatory language. Since time began, "outsiders" have been coming in and buying land. Happens everywhere. You were an outsider at one point yourself and bought land here. Is Mosler automatically a carpetbagger because he's new, or rich, or white, or has tried to run for office? Public defamation should be beneath you as "an elder and teacher."

What matters to me is whether or not the property owner is open to debate, and intent on being a good neighbor. If he didn't care, he would not let people park on his lots, build a godawful hotel, make his bathrooms for patrons only, and not have the businesses keep the beach clean.

.

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Posted : June 24, 2011 8:49 pm
Lizard
(@Lizard)
Trusted Member

The United States Constitution "Preamble" WE THE PEOPLE"

LLC, DIVORCE,WILLS,INCORPORATION'S ( the word People help save time and money in Legal Matters.

You Kill someone it's the people VS John Doe.

We the People in Your State or Territory.

In the Military When the Commander says you people he means the people he's talking to.

When you dirty a beach you say you people or the people or lazy dirt bags etc.

So maybe We the people should do Our part to keep the beach clean:-)

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Posted : June 24, 2011 10:20 pm
ibutcherii
(@ibutcherii)
Advanced Member

Neil

Homesteading is much different than Speculating.

The term carpet baggers is well documented to mean exactly what I see, that is happening here, and they are coming in all Colors.

You seem as sensitive as I am about this race issue. The open person I referred to as being racist is the dive shop owner and those who associate with him, who are of the same mindset.

It is obvious you have a problem with my manner, and you may never understand, which I have no problem with you.

You questioning my character, What has been your contribution to this Community,?

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Topic starter Posted : June 24, 2011 10:44 pm
noOne
(@noOne)
Trusted Member

The term carpet baggers is well documented to mean exactly what I see, that is happening here, and they are coming in all Colors.

Yeah, you're a hypocritical bigot.

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Posted : June 24, 2011 11:26 pm
dntw8up
(@dntw8up)
Trusted Member

"Carpetbaggers" is commonly understood to refer to insidious outsiders with questionable objectives, meddling in local politics, buying up property at fire-sale prices, and taking advantage of locals -- and there are plenty of them in the VI.

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Posted : June 24, 2011 11:41 pm
Lizard
(@Lizard)
Trusted Member

When the economy improves the Baby Boomer Carpet baggers will come to the islands in full force. "YIKES" What is an outside elder suppose to do?:S

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Posted : June 24, 2011 11:44 pm
ibutcherii
(@ibutcherii)
Advanced Member

noOne

Hypocritical bigot?

What exactly am I being bigoted about, bring about awareness?

What is your contribution to this Community?

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Topic starter Posted : June 24, 2011 11:52 pm
SunnyCaribe
(@SunnyCaribe)
Advanced Member

Please don't feed the trolls.

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Posted : June 25, 2011 12:02 am
ibutcherii
(@ibutcherii)
Advanced Member

Sunny

If that was directed to me, I am very focused, and I am not going to lose site of the crisis that is facing all of us here in the territory.

Especially the youth, if their families do not have land to leave them, they may never be able to afford a piece, or to be able to afford to even live here.

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Topic starter Posted : June 25, 2011 1:21 am
noOne
(@noOne)
Trusted Member

What exactly am I being bigoted about, bring about awareness?

I don't need to look up what a carpetbagger is, it is something I was taught in school. A carpetbagger is a Yankee who moved to the south after the Civil War and sold things like snake-oil to the locals, and also typically carried a bag with their belongings made out of an old carpet.

It is a derogatory term only used by bigots, like you, much like using the term "You People".

What is your contribution to this Community?

More than yours, I am sure - at least I am not a hypocritical bigot.

I bet you love Adelbert Bryan!

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Posted : June 25, 2011 2:02 am
ibutcherii
(@ibutcherii)
Advanced Member

noOne,

Your responses are exactly what vendicates my position.

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Topic starter Posted : June 25, 2011 4:53 am
onthespot
(@onthespot)
Advanced Member

vindicates.

Money does not know race. Buisness opportunities are leapt upon by the prepared, whatever race they are. If you stay on island your whole life, hate to say it but generally speaking, it does not prepare you to see business opportunities right in front of your eyes, or give you the skills and the huevos to make a move usually, even if said business opportunity was standing on your foot and smiling in your face at the same time. It's not about race. Not about carpetbaggers. It is about just having more opportunities to see businesses take off and do well in the states or wherever, than on a small island. Not that nothing happens on island, just that it usually happens slower, and less often, and most people are out of the loop when something happens. Up stateside, business is churning all the time, on all scales and on every corner. The sheer mass of humanity crowded together, lots of business models come and go, or thrive over time. A strong worth ethic goes a long way to a successful business, besides a good plan and a good financial starting point and a good economy.

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Posted : June 25, 2011 6:15 am
mminstx
(@mminstx)
Advanced Member

The United States Constitution "Preamble" WE THE PEOPLE"

LLC, DIVORCE,WILLS,INCORPORATION'S ( the word People help save time and money in Legal Matters.

You Kill someone it's the people VS John Doe.

We the People in Your State or Territory.

In the Military When the Commander says you people he means the people he's talking to.

When you dirty a beach you say you people or the people or lazy dirt bags etc.

So maybe We the people should do Our part to keep the beach clean:-)

"you people"= "y'all" or, from here in the islands, "ayo"...

I agree. ...I don't know the man that made the comment, but this may be the context. I'm from the Midwest, and say 'you people' as in 'you people round here need to start cleaning up' or whatever, meaning generally the group I'm referring to. Let's hope it's a cultural misunderstanding and he meant 'you people' as in the beachgoing/trash leaving people in general complaining at the meeting about the proposed road changes.

If not, then he's a jerk and try not to let it ruin your day.

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Posted : June 25, 2011 11:10 am
ibutcherii
(@ibutcherii)
Advanced Member

onthespot

My vindication is not about my position on the road change or of conscientious development, as an active member of the VI RC&D, VI UFC and the STXHA, this issue is exactly what our mission is all about: Education, Conservation and Preservation.

But as long as there are those, like noOne, who will call me names and attack my character because I disagree with them, there will be others that will see who the real bigots are here in our mist.

What is being missed, by some, is that I was the one attack for questioning the dive shop owner's position on the road change. His tone and manner of bias gives good reason to suspect Exclusion.

To me, your statement shows a lack of compassion and understanding to the causes and effects of an impoverished state of being.

Besides, Sloth of the nature of a person; Poverty is created by the wealthy of the world, who may have never worked a day in their lives and who are exploiting exploiting the world's natural resources, ex: discovery (stealing land), slavery, indented servitude, share cropping, welfare, discrimination, racism, nepotism, drugs, prisons, inferior education, slum landlords, inept and corrupt governments, etc.

When I first came here I saw opportunity, and when I went into business, I was told by an Elder businessman, " There is no Conscious in Business".

I am not criticizing those who come and work their way into this or any other community, but I am critical of those investors whose sole purpose is to make a profit regardless of the resulting impact on the residents and the environment.

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Topic starter Posted : June 25, 2011 11:29 am
onthespot
(@onthespot)
Advanced Member

You can have all the compassion in the world for an impoverished person with few resources, but when opportunity knocks, compassion gets you zip. Someone more prepared will step up. If an unprepared person steps up, they fail in any case, and THEN the more prepared person steps up, and the unprepared person loses all what little they had.

I know about racism and impoverishment. When I was a kid, it was all 'Whitey, go HOME!" :Stinkin' Racan!" and being spit on as I walked past the line of busses to go home after school. Standing in line to get on the bus, often some kid behind me would crash into me as if they had been pushed, making me crash into the person in front of me, but you could tell by the hands over mouths and snickers, no one was pushed. As a child things were pretty tough. I often had to catch or pick food if I wanted to eat.I was skinny and small due to malnutrition. My shoes were "hungry" meaning the soles were worn and the bottoms flapped when I walked, My pants had "stitch banna" and I was ""pickin' whelks on dry land" a lot, meaning my pants were not long enough to reach my ankles.

Growing up under the double load of racishm and poverty, I feel I know more than you may think about poverty and racism. I understand how racism steals your belief in yourself and in others. I know how poverty will make you work so hard you break down early, have little access to health care or education, or to acquire the tools that help you be a success in life. I get it. I lived it. And still I want to come back to St. Croix to "retire", broken down, not too much faith in myself or my fellow man, because I love that island, with all its' faults, it has more soul and solace than any place I have lived here in the states. People could still spit on me and call names and push in line, I don't care. I love St. Croix is all.

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Posted : June 25, 2011 1:41 pm
STXoldie
(@STXoldie)
Advanced Member

Carpetbaggers are alive and well--Vargrave Richards and Lew Lester dba Caribbean Wind Energy .

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Posted : June 25, 2011 4:07 pm
ibutcherii
(@ibutcherii)
Advanced Member

onthespot

I maybe older that you, and I can add many situations where I have experienced and witnessed racism.

I moved here in '69, a year after Rev. King was assassinated, and this was the first place I didn't feel intimidated being a Black man.

I witnessed a community where the locals were in control of their lives. There weren't all the conveniences of stateside, but I felt empowered.

I too, love and appreciate my life on St. Croix, with all of its faults.

This is exactly why I will speak-up and stand-up against what I feel is negatively impacting here.

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Topic starter Posted : June 25, 2011 9:09 pm
onthespot
(@onthespot)
Advanced Member

We moved here in 67, and I remember well when the news came out that King had been asassinated. It was a hard time to be a poor white kid in st croix, let me tell you. I had no control over movng there, or leaving. UCA spary painted everywhere in red, black and green. Pure hate for whites at that time. My brother was a jury memeber on the Fountain Valley trial. My father's real estate sales went to nil, my mother died, and a waterspout crashed our house... The nuns just HATED us for not being shining examples of what "whites" were supposed to be, so we caught licks every chance, had chalk, erasers and even texbooks hurled across the room by teachers, If they hold your hand to "talk" to you, they would dig their thumbnail into the new growth area of your nail beds and just stare you down with pure hate too. Still, my best memories are of there, and I want to come back. No one will be throwing books at me, whipping me or making me kneel for hours this time, and I have learned to make my way in the world come what may. Even disabled, I think I have plenty to contribute to the community. I would LOVE to start a poultry club with any people of any age. I have unique knowledge of a natural event that happened on STX about forty years back. I'd like to see about maybe contacting the right people in the right order to maybe enhance tourism to the island with minimally changing the environment, not costing a lot of money or changing things up much. I gotta watch my p's and q's though... one slip up and things could go the wrong way and major so called carpetbaggers could get a control of it first and just exploit it, or worse, build over it..

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Posted : June 25, 2011 11:32 pm
ibutcherii
(@ibutcherii)
Advanced Member

onthespot

I went to Catholic school, and was the only Black child in my classes, most of my school years. Until I came here to teach.

I remember back then was the first time, I witnessed Reverse Racism.

I have felt your Pain.

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Topic starter Posted : June 26, 2011 2:14 am
onthespot
(@onthespot)
Advanced Member

Yeah, that was forty years ago. I can let it go, but it was just a period in time for me, not the systematic brutality of my entire race for centuries. I can fully understand why you can't "let it go" and might be wary of anything that barely resembles such a horrble time in world history. Sure, it was decades ago, but racism is still alive and well, as is slavery, exploitation, and brutality of one group over another, be it for religion, culture, war, what have you. It's not all black and white either, Lots of white groups hate other whites for whatever reason. I think humans by nature are not prone to get along unless they make an effort at it. Many don't make an effort. Sorry to de-rail your thread. Hopefully you can get your voice heard about the road moving...

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Posted : June 26, 2011 4:21 am
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