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stjohnjulie
(@stjohnjulie)
Trusted Member

Thank you for adding your perspective.   I have been reading a lot more reports of traffic stops leading to arrests these days in the online news publications.  So maybe this is something they are trying to do.   My son who works at a restaurant and usually doesn’t get off work until 11pm or so has told me that town has been really quiet at that time lately because the police presence in town is bigger and more consistent than he has ever seen.  (STJ) 

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Posted : November 9, 2020 4:00 am
jaldeborgh
(@jaldeborgh)
Advanced Member
Posted by: @icatchbadguys

crime fighting techniques work in every place we've implemented them.

Agree!  I've worked in technology for 90%+ of my 44 year career, IP (intellectual Property) protection is at the core of the success of any technology company, I'm using IP protection as a metaphor for law enforcement and crime levels.  We've always maintained that "you either have security, or you don't", there is NO middle ground, the point being, as with any type of crime, there are known best practices and if companies or communities following them with disciple they work.  The problem today is people want to have their cake and eat it too.  The SJW's (social justice warriors) that dominate politics and the media want zero police presence but at the same time our everyday citizens complain that real world crime is out of control, and is getting worse.  So far the track record of these Politically Correct SJW's is abysmal in every major US city and most States/Territories.

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Posted : November 9, 2020 9:27 am
Gator's Mom
(@gators_mom)
Trusted Member
Posted by: @jaldeborgh
Posted by: @icatchbadguys

crime fighting techniques work in every place we've implemented them.

Agree!  I've worked in technology for 90%+ of my 44 year career, IP (intellectual Property) protection is at the core of the success of any technology company, I'm using IP protection as a metaphor for law enforcement and crime levels.  We've always maintained that "you either have security, or you don't", there is NO middle ground, the point being, as with any type of crime, there are known best practices and if companies or communities following them with disciple they work.  The problem today is people want to have their cake and eat it too.  The SJW's (social justice warriors) that dominate politics and the media want zero police presence but at the same time our everyday citizens complain that real world crime is out of control, and is getting worse.  So far the track record of these Politically Correct SJW's is abysmal in every major US city and most States/Territories.

Your are absolutely wrong. Those who advocate for changes in policing want the police to be a community safety service for their neighborhoods - law enforcers once in a while but not unilateral judges, lawyers, social workers, marriage counselors, traffic enforcers, meter readers, executioners and the other myriad of hats we as a society ask them to wear each day. 

It requires repair from the inside out, not the outside in. Trust is hard earned but exceedingly easy to lose.

And for god's sake check the media's influence on your vocabulary.

https://theconversation.com/fox-news-viewers-write-about-blm-the-same-way-cnn-viewers-write-about-kkk-147894?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR3Qlnyaxl08eZOqmpz2O9rtoG5LnZ9En-ep4KBaGoGHo4lLOn-eXyX5JIM#Echobox=1603991419

 

I learnt a term that these people use as a put-down of those who try to advocate a fairer world for all - SJWs or Social Justice Warriors. I am still struggling to see how that can be a diss.
— Sunday News (Auckland, New Zealand), 8 Jul 2018

This post was modified 4 months ago 2 times by Gator's Mom
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Posted : November 9, 2020 10:52 am
Gator's Mom
(@gators_mom)
Trusted Member
Posted by: @gators_mom
Posted by: @jaldeborgh
Posted by: @icatchbadguys

crime fighting techniques work in every place we've implemented them.

Agree!  I've worked in technology for 90%+ of my 44 year career, IP (intellectual Property) protection is at the core of the success of any technology company, I'm using IP protection as a metaphor for law enforcement and crime levels.  We've always maintained that "you either have security, or you don't", there is NO middle ground, the point being, as with any type of crime, there are known best practices and if companies or communities following them with disciple they work.  The problem today is people want to have their cake and eat it too.  The SJW's (social justice warriors) that dominate politics and the media want zero police presence but at the same time our everyday citizens complain that real world crime is out of control, and is getting worse.  So far the track record of these Politically Correct SJW's is abysmal in every major US city and most States/Territories.

Your are absolutely wrong. Those who advocate for changes in policing want the police to be a community safety service for their neighborhoods - law enforcers once in a while but not unilateral judges, lawyers, social workers, marriage counselors, traffic enforcers, meter readers, executioners and the other myriad of hats we as a society ask them to wear each day. 

It requires repair from the inside out, not the outside in. Trust is hard earned but exceedingly easy to lose.

And for god's sake check the media's influence on your vocabulary.

https://theconversation.com/fox-news-viewers-write-about-blm-the-same-way-cnn-viewers-write-about-kkk-147894?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR3Qlnyaxl08eZOqmpz2O9rtoG5LnZ9En-ep4KBaGoGHo4lLOn-eXyX5JIM#Echobox=1603991419

 

I learnt a term that these people use as a put-down of those who try to advocate a fairer world for all - SJWs or Social Justice Warriors. I am still struggling to see how that can be a diss.
— Sunday News (Auckland, New Zealand), 8 Jul 2018

That is

You are absolutely wrong.

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Posted : November 9, 2020 11:21 am
jaldeborgh
(@jaldeborgh)
Advanced Member
Posted by: @gators_mom

You are absolutely wrong.

Tell me what works.  What we are doing is a disaster.

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Posted : November 9, 2020 11:24 am
jaldeborgh
(@jaldeborgh)
Advanced Member
Posted by: @gators_mom

I learnt a term that these people use as a put-down of those who try to advocate a fairer world for all

Who decides what’s fair?  Every human being has their own idea of what’s fair.  It’s not the role of Government to judge morality, that’s province family, community and religion.  I can give you a list of “activists” (all justified as being in the name of fairness) who brought about the deaths of 100M people in the last century.  Governments judging fairness is a very slippery slope, in a very bad way.

This post was modified 4 months ago by jaldeborgh
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Posted : November 9, 2020 11:34 am
Gator's Mom
(@gators_mom)
Trusted Member
Posted by: @jaldeborgh
Posted by: @gators_mom

I learnt a term that these people use as a put-down of those who try to advocate a fairer world for all

Who decides what’s fair?  Every human being has their own idea of what’s fair.  It’s not the role of Government to judge morality, that’s province family, community and religion.  I can give you a list of “activists” (all justified as being in the name of fairness) who brought about the deaths of 100M people in the last century.  Governments judging fairness is a very slippery slope, in a very bad way.

I think fairness is a societal standard.

No one is talking Government though that's where policies are made to provide structure for us to make the best choices for all of us as a whole.  

Societal fairness and its modern interpretation going forward is probably meant to be sorted out by those younger than us. It is not a disaster, really. Change is hard. Mistakes are made but we humans continue to have babies despite - maybe because of- pandemics.

Even though it seems we older folks are still in charge, we are winning battles but not the war. 

Personally, I think it is our job to provide resources and assure a fair playing field to let young adults sort it out for their children and grandchildren.

That is my hope.

Liberté, égalité, fraternité

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Posted : November 9, 2020 12:03 pm
jaldeborgh
(@jaldeborgh)
Advanced Member
Posted by: @gators_mom

I think fairness is a societal standard

How do you judge and enforce something that is unwritten, individualistic and always changing.  My values are my values, they are different today at 64 than they were when I was 20.  I will also not respond well to anyone who try's to force me to live outside my values, that's human nature.  This is why there must be written laws, even these are interpreted differently by different people because we each have our own unique perspective.

If I sit one-on-one with you and discuss fairness I would likely get different responses than if we were sitting in a group of 10 or 20 people discussing fairness, simply because of peer pressure, the mob rules when there isn't a clear cut set of rules.  That's problematic.

A free society has no rules about what you can do, just the opposite, it has rules about what you can't do.  For some reason it's become acceptable to riot, loot and commit an array of other crimes all in the name of social justice.  Is that morally right or fair?  Laws and human life apparently have no meaning, if your striving for social justice.  How many killings are acceptable before we use some common sense and enforce the laws we already have using best practices that are field proven for the sake of the community at large.  Why is this even slightly controversial.

I've lived in the Boston area for much of the last 45 years, last year there were 152 homicides in the metro area and no one thinks twice when someone is murdered, often times it does't even make the news, because it doesn't fit the narrative.  I've also spent a good amount of time in Kyoto, Japan, the sister city of Boston, which typically has fewer than 5 murders a year, when one does occur it's a huge news story and people are outraged and importantly ashamed that something like this could happen in their city.  For context, the metro area population of the two cities are very similar (~2.5M).  You can safely walk any street in Kyoto at any time of day or night and never feel the least bit uncomfortable.  The Japanese culture is amazing (in a good way) but it's also rigid, very disciplined and the community in many ways polices itself.  One thing everyone knows for sure, you don't mess with the Police, you also don't fear the Police (unless you break the law).

I understand you can't directly compare a Japanese city to STX or the territory but I also understand that people are the same the world over, so solutions do exist, if there is the willingness to set high standards and live up to them.

The USVI's are on track to hit 50 murders in 2020, for a territory with only 100K residents this is a murder rate more than 8X that of Boston in 2019.  The numbers don't lie, this is bad, we should learn from the Japanese and be ashamed of ourselves.  Serious change is needed to to begin to restore confidence.  It won't fix itself.

From where I sit we are not close to being ready to discuss optimizing fairness, we have much bigger problems to address first, we need to start by saving lives.

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Posted : November 9, 2020 3:33 pm
Gator's Mom
(@gators_mom)
Trusted Member

BVI just announced $250 million in cocaine seized on Tortola on Friday night 11/5/2020. A BVI police officer was arrested as one of the smugglers. Shoot out, guns, cash, stockpile of cocaine.

This is the largest cocaine haul ever in the UK or any of its territories, anywhere, anytime.

The British Navy is still in active pursuit at sea. This is an ongoing operation.

Tortola was being used as a stockpile for the cartels - "transnational organized crime" per the BVI governor.

This action is part of the ongoing BVI border closure.

BVI locals are highly involved.

 

https://www.facebook.com/BVIGovernment/videos/700075670930621

 

 

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Posted : November 10, 2020 1:44 pm
ICatchBadGuys
(@icatchbadguys)
Advanced Member

@gators_mom That's a good arrest! Never good to hear a cop was involved....and a 20 yr veteran to boot. What an idiot. Going back to my post about the effectiveness of proactive police work. I'm learning that this covert operation was based on a series of apprehensions at much lower levels that led them to the big haul. Several low level guys were caught on traffic stops and open air drug deals and debriefs of them led to larger "fish", as it often does. Supposedly, they nailed some guys in October with about 100 kilos from the low level stops and that may have led to this arrest. Allegedly, one of the bad guys told the local police that one of their own was involved, so they were prepared for that. It's also why him and his brother were arrested pretty quickly. Hopefully they get the rest....and that rat cop gets plenty of time to think about how he let down his blue "family".     

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Posted : November 18, 2020 11:55 am
daveb722
(@daveb722)
Trusted Member

@icatchbadguys and you wonder why?  Look at their pay.  I'm not justifying it by no means, but he probably got offered 10x's his salary to help.  Not like a Trooper in NY making 6 figures.  That's why we have the issues we have here, the pay sucks, so they do the bare minimum to get by and the candidates are not the best most likely due to that.

 

The Royal Virgin Islands Police Force is currently accepting applications for law enforcement recruits between the ages of 18 and 30.

Police Commissioner Michael Matthews said the force is “not just looking for young indigenous men and women to fill these posts, but the sharpest and brightest among them,”according to a press release from the Police Information Office.

The 2019 intake is part of a Cabinet-approved increase in the number of officers over the next three years.The force hopes to attract 15 new recruits this year.

In addition to being between the age of 18 and 30, qualifications include possessing a high school diploma or its equivalent. The salary range is between $22,700 and $33,300.

Applicants can download, print and fill out the employment application provided through the RVIPF tab on the government’s website, www.bvi.gov.vg.

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Posted : November 18, 2020 1:02 pm
ICatchBadGuys
(@icatchbadguys)
Advanced Member

@daveb722 I hear you. We (police administrators) have been pushing for a more "professionalized" approach to the field for quite some time. The answer is to have officers with more formal and informal education, higher quality and lengthier training academies, mandatory fitness requirements, etc. The idea is that a more stringent and challenging process and training program will provide better officers. It also means higher standards on the job with more accountability. Of course this comes with a price. If you want a "kid" who is smart, fit, has good common sense and excellent people skills, you'll have to pay them for it to be competitive. Otherwise, every single employer who is looking for those skills (hint: it's all of them) will draw them away with better pay, benefits and working conditions. Programmers typically don't have to fight drunks on Christmas Day and spend New Year's Eve getting shot at! LOL!   

Of course, politicians and the public demand a high standard of their police but most don't want to pay for it. In fact, the recent "defund" movement is killing us. The result? Minimum standards breeding a lot of minimum performers. In my city if you doubled starting pay, but required what I mentioned above and held them to that standard you'd have 1,000 applicants. We only need about 25-50 recruits at a time. Imagine how you could pick through that group and find the very best. The job isn't like when I started. Potential recruits demand to be compensated like no other time in America. Otherwise, they'll go do something else. When I started in 1999, I was one of 30 recruits hired. There were 850 applicants! Fast forward to last year. My agency needed to hire 50, in two groups of 25. We had 185 applicants. Over 50 didn't pass the background check and 30 more didn't pass the PT test. 100 applicants to fill 50 spots. If you have a heartbeat, you pretty much get hired. We've been lucky to get some good ones, but the quality is way down overall. Requirements? A HS diploma and don't show up high the first day. I'm kidding of course, but it's bad out here right now.         

  

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Posted : November 18, 2020 1:31 pm
daveb722 liked
NorthsideKevin
(@northsidekevin)
Advanced Member

@gators_mom yeah, no.  Your response is good, but you won't change the mind of the previous poster.  It's a gated-cul-de-sac fraternity that thinks that way.  Fairness or equity has nothing to do with it.  You don't have the answers, I don't have the answers, so the fraternity makes up their own answers.  "I've been to . . . blah blah blah."  So have I.  Beijing to Venezuela to San Fran to Eastport.  People are people.  Selfishness and greed drive things.  Not common sense.  

Oh, and my values haven't changed between 17 years old and 65 years old.  Common sense, and don't feed the greedy.  But I've seen friends change to the extent of virtual unexpected insanity - stupidity - as a result of the last 4-5 years.  

This post was modified 3 months ago by NorthsideKevin
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Posted : November 19, 2020 9:19 am
Lyubov
(@lyubov)
Advanced Member

@queen-mary Bravo! Excellent post! <3

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Posted : December 3, 2020 12:23 pm
Scubadoo
(@Scubadoo)
Trusted Member

Traffic Stop on St. Croix Leads to Gun Possession Arrest in Work and Rest

A traffic stop operation executed by the V.I.P.D. on Saturday in Work & Rest led to the arrest of a 21-year-old man for unauthorized possession of a firearm

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Posted : December 8, 2020 10:58 pm
jaldeborgh
(@jaldeborgh)
Advanced Member
Posted by: @Scubadoo

A traffic stop operation executed by the V.I.P.D. on Saturday in Work & Rest led to the arrest of a 21-year-old man for unauthorized possession of a firearm

Good but sad, I think back on being 21 and recall, despite many advantages, how confused I was about almost everything in life.  At my stage in life (64 years) I can only conclude a 21 year old who acquires an illegal gun isn’t planning on using it for recreational purposes and that the ultimate outcome isn’t likely to be anything good for the individual or the community.  The tragedy is this young man (I would say confused child) may already be spiraling down into something that might very well be unrecoverable.  While I’m glad an illegal firearm is off the street, I see this as only a temporary reprieve as it’s the individual that pulls the trigger, hence good but sad. 

This post was modified 3 months ago by jaldeborgh
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Posted : December 9, 2020 1:39 am
stcmike
(@stcmike)
Advanced Member

I often wondered what happens to the guns or drugs that are taken off the street by the police. I am sure most of it is destroyed but I am also sure some of it is kept for personal use or later works its way back to the street. Does anyone know what the destruction verification process is for these confiscated items?

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Topic starter Posted : December 9, 2020 12:15 pm
NugBlazer
(@NugBlazer)
Advanced Member
Posted by: @sttanon

I guess in living in the VI for over 20 years I am a bit jaded at the whole situtation to a degree. Every administration has their action words and plans with fancy names but in the end sounds great but the end impact is little to nil.            
One problem that I have always seens is that the local government is really touchy when it comes to the idea that there are problems that they cant solve on their own.... The Feds cant really do anything at this point until the government says we need your help with this, that being said even in the states when the feds help the problem doesnt go away.... I personally understand when the VIPD reaches out for tips and gets nothing. People are scared because of what can happen and sadly many times does happen to people that "rat" out the criminals. 

You nailed it.  This is the wisest, most realistic post in this thread, IMO.

NOTHING will change until outside forces are brought in from the States permanently to assert control and re-establish rule of law, repair ailing infrastructure, educate the population and just generally "fix" the many issues that have plagued the VI for decades.  But, the local government is incompetent and won't allow it and think that they can handle things just fine. (They actually say this with a straight face.)  Until this impasse is broken, nothing will change, no matter what the politicians tell you, because most politicians and police here are corrupt and incompetent, and local education is a joke.

Also, the idea that we could train the VI police with stateside techniques is completely laughable and shows a clear ignorance of the VI.  In the 20 years I've been here, I've seen countless well-intentioned people come and go from the States, all claiming that they had the secret to fixing the VI.  They all failed miserably because they failed to recognize the Most Important Fact: that the VI is completely different than the states right down to its very fabric.  What works in the states usually doesn't work here.    No amount of police funding, police training or improved equipment will matter, because local police are still locals.  They know and/or are friends with and/or are related to virtually every single criminal they will come in contact with.  How in the world do you expect a local police officer to do his job when it involves him arresting, say, his neighbor's kid?  If he follows through, not only will his neighbor resent him (which is a big deal in the VI), but he might face severe retaliation in the form of being beaten or murdered the next time he's out on the town.  The answer is that, out of necessity or ignorance or both, the local cop often doesn't do his job.  He looks the other way and let's his neighbor's kid go, even though that kid just committed a felony, because letting that kid get away with murder is better than being murdered himself or ostracized in the local community.  And then the neighbor's kid goes and commits more felonies.  And the vicious cycle continues.

I've said it before and I'll say it again:  if you really want to improve things in the VI, you need to bring competent people down from the States permanently.  Cops, politicians, contractors, educators, etc.  And you will need a lot of them, because the locals will resist, probably violently at first.  If you bring enough people and they stay for years and do the hard work, eventually things will turn around.  And, once they do, the locals will embrace it, because a rising tide lifts all boats as they say.  But, it won't be easy and it won't happen overnight.

There are no easy answers or quick fixes to this.  Crime and corruption in the VI are and always have been the biggest issues in the territory.  Fixing them will take a generation at least.

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Posted : December 21, 2020 7:15 pm
jaldeborgh
(@jaldeborgh)
Advanced Member
Posted by: @NugBlazer

Crime and corruption in the VI are and always have been the biggest issues in the territory.  Fixing them will take a generation at least.

It's a crisis in leadership, a strong leader can make a difference.  We haven't had strong leaders, rather we've only seen career politicians and they are never strong leaders (except occasionally in times of war) as their success depends on being popular and not making the hard decisions that will effect the needed change.  It's unrealistic to think people can be brought into the territory to effect change, it will never happen mainlanders will be rejected.

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Posted : December 21, 2020 9:54 pm
STTsailor
(@STTsailor)
Trusted Member

What NugBlazer said!

 

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Posted : December 22, 2020 9:58 am
NugBlazer
(@NugBlazer)
Advanced Member
Posted by: @jaldeborgh
Posted by: @NugBlazer

Crime and corruption in the VI are and always have been the biggest issues in the territory.  Fixing them will take a generation at least.

It's a crisis in leadership, a strong leader can make a difference.  We haven't had strong leaders, rather we've only seen career politicians and they are never strong leaders (except occasionally in times of war) as their success depends on being popular and not making the hard decisions that will effect the needed change.  It's unrealistic to think people can be brought into the territory to effect change, it will never happen mainlanders will be rejected.

You are partially correct, but in an indirect, roundabout way.  See below.

A strong leader simply isn't even remotely close to enough to directly affect the changes needed, for all the reasons I outlined above.  This problem is not solvable by a single person, no matter how skilled a leader they may be.  It will take dozens if not hundreds to get it done, and, even then, it will take many years.

The problem is systemic and deeply ingrained.  The current system is so corrupt and broken that there is no saving it.  The slate needs to be wiped clean.  That can only be done by outside forces.  The locals have proven time and again for decades upon decades that they simply are not up to the task.  And, things are getting worse, not better.

Yes, of course the locals will reject statesiders at first, probably violently, I said as much in my post above.  But, you know what?  Too fu**ing bad.  There's already tons of violence here anyway, and, sometimes, progress requires sacrifice.  But, once the locals see that things are actually improving, they will change their tunes.

The real impediment to making this happen is garnering enough political will to actually do this.  Getting stateside politicians to care enough about the VI to authorize the kind of manpower and resources needed to make it happen would be extremely difficult if not nearly impossible.  This is where a strong local leader could make the difference -- not by affecting the changes directly, but by affecting them indirectly via hardcore, relentless lobbying in Congress.  A strong, local, charismatic leader who hammers Congress over and over for years if not decades until they cave in.  That's the only way.

Which is why every time a new VI Governor is elected and makes fancy promises, I just shake my head and sip my rum, because I know nothing will change.  I've seen this movie before.

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Posted : December 22, 2020 3:11 pm
jaldeborgh
(@jaldeborgh)
Advanced Member

My two key points on leadership were/are that cultural change can only come from the top and from someone people trust.  A strong leader will clean house of anyone not aligned with the needed changes.  Second, it won’t be pretty, the status quo will rise-up in fight back with no holds barred.

My guess is that if such a leader were to emerge that a remarkable percentage of the population would recognize the change agent and give him/her their support.  I believe the vast majority of voters would agree that the status quo isn’t going to solve any of the many major problems facing the Territory.

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Posted : December 23, 2020 9:48 am
rewired
(@rewired)
Advanced Member

With an electorate that appears to vote based upon the 'quality of the fish fry' rather than what officials have done or commit to doing, that may take a VERY long time.

The governor's office and a majority of the legislature would need to be on the same page to have any effect. Otherwise, you get an effect similar to what's been going on in Washington the last few years. Regardless of whether you liked Obama or Trump, both were viewed as charismatic by their voters. Both were also checked by unfriendly legislatures for varying amounts of time.

On a more positive note, only about 1/3 of the VI electorate voted this year (18,130 of 53,341), so there may be enough registered voters that are unimpressed with or unenthusiastic about the current options to make a change. Except for 'at large' elections, none of the senators received more than 5k votes. 

The question is whether VI voters will demand real change when they hit rock bottom or give up entirely.

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Posted : December 26, 2020 8:02 am
ICatchBadGuys
(@icatchbadguys)
Advanced Member

@stcmike Seized firearms are run against NCIC and any police report databases to determine if they are listed as stolen or lost, etc. This is why it's important to have a list of serial numbers for guns and other high value items in case they are stolen. If the police recover it, they will run the serial number and will get a "hit" on it, if it's listed. Any guns they get a "hit" on as stolen are returned to the owner. Any firearms not listed or deemed non-returnable to owners are set for destruction. Most agencies have their evidence technicians and an officer supervise the metal shredding. it's a machine that simply chews the guns up and the metal is recycled. 

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Posted : December 26, 2020 12:19 pm
daveb722
(@daveb722)
Trusted Member

@icatchbadguys you do know this is the USVI, i'm guessing they get passed on to relatives or re-sold or lost? Just my opinion though.  🙄 

This post was modified 2 months ago by daveb722
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Posted : December 26, 2020 1:29 pm
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